10 fatalities are confirmed including one police officer in a shooting incident at a supermarket in the u.s. state of colorado the suspect has been taken into custody. president putin meets russian vaccine developers to discuss a production boost and hails the proven safety of domestically produced jobs. none of the 4 an equivalence of the same level of protection once again this is a resounding success for domestic science and it's been recognized approach is the geographical adoption of the speed of the vaccine is actively growing and so is the hunger in foreign minister condemns the handling of its inoculation program and urges the european regulator to approve russia. and the e.u. ups the ante in its vaccine supply feud with the u.k.

saying it could start blocking cross-channel shipments of the astra zeneca shot. kevin owen has your next news update in about an hour's time coming up on r t international it's crosstalk and renegade inc is coming up next on your screens in the u.k. stay with us. hello and welcome the cross-talk where all things are considered peter lavelle take your pick the great reset. is neoliberalism mutating reset for whom better for you than people have any say in any.

to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest when he's an in-house so he is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of the new book great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution and in budapest we crossed the george 70 well he's a podcast or i think bill which can be found on you tube and rumble originally crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok glenn let me go to you in oslo build back better the how the great reset as i said in my introduction these sound very nice they don't sound threatening here but the more you kind of dig into it and the way it's being applied in some ways you could make the argument that neo liberalism is it is mutating because it's the form that is existed when say before the election of trump before break breaks it was suffering illegitimacy and they're trying to. you

know put new wine in old bottles something like that but the biggest problem for me is that when i look at the all the things that they're going to apply it to there is that singular thing that's missing democracy is that anybody going to vote for any of this because this professional manager real class they think they know everything they think they know the kind of for him in the last 60 years they've created only chaos and wealth for themselves my opinion go ahead learn well you're going to. build better. they are not the same they are now some of the big overlaps obviously. because they're real defiant really having much of the credit debate surrounding detention the ill defined. it's very easy for build back better it incorporates a great reset. the great reset all this is this or did because they're difficult to

discuss the topic as well because the greater you say attract the attention of our good reason because cities based on a meeting the world economic forum. you know political and business elite so again it's not being debated and voted on i think they're late and they're discussing the need now to create a very different world after 19 so again looking a little bit of the concept of building back better. runs once the political economical and the lips decides to create a new world it doesn't deserve attention but it also creates an immense i'll show oxygen to feed all kinds of a conspiracy if there is that is there for important to differentiate which is why i also want to be very careful with my words for example the great reset is based on that day and that and then me can be used as an opportunity to create a world which was not sustainable before and therefore make it sustainable now this is a very huge is your body is of course not the same a state thing and then it was a hoax or you know created by leeds uk it's important to not get because this is

just because it is happening a lot outside democratic debate it does open up for a lot of other impulses but again it it doesn't come from a reasonable point under the economy as a mention it is moving into an era area where there will be less public control over it so the great reset is based on the technologies of the 4th industrial revolution and just i would promote my book while i'm at it a hedge so i recently read power politics on the 4th industrial revolution and the whole idea is that the 4th industrial revolution is a technological era we're entering more technologies and merge with the physical world and also many political wrong you know we're automating the cognitive with robotics and very simplified the digital companies that organize your search engines emails and social media will also now build your cars yourself johnny carson transforms transportation producer products reorganize the financial industry grow your food and all revolutionize agriculture operate your restaurants

deliver your food restructure cities transform pharmaceuticals medical industry build armies of the future. so i think a little to thinking oh or very much every aspect of society and it's something that sounds like you don't need people george clooney to me given to you because you and i have similar backgrounds and studied the same things go over the decades theory they had scientific socialism ok because it was scientific it made socialism sound like it was buyable ok but now we're having this as scientific modernism when she no has that same kind of dream to me here meaning it is solving all problems at the same time this is a revolutionary idea i would say and beat at the same time a very authoritarian one because it is there is no public input because these elites they know what's best for us they think they really do george you know what

they've done to western society for the last 60 years go ahead that's well that's a very interesting carol that you draw between the scientific socialism marxism leninism and the the great reset because whatever else you can say about scientific socialism and how it manifested itself in the in stalinist wealth or a tear in ism there wasn't least a utopian goal that mankind was supposed to be pursuing in which you know what would become tight toward happiness and all the great conflicts with come to an end the great reset has no humanitarian end to it i mean it has glenn was describing it it's. let's let's just brink take humans out of the equation altogether it will be kind of created by robotics an artificial intelligence and governance telling people what to do and that's why this this vision that underlies the

great reset is one that is very anti. humane and is unlikely to generate any great popular in suzy as some but there's no question that the big tree of biden in the us election has been a massive shot in the arm for the doublespeak a because they are very concerned about the dissolution of the globalist model suddenly which trump national sovereignty was coming back i mean they had enough problems already with russia putin and china basically pursue their own national agenda biden is explicitly say no no when you know we need to pursue this a globalist agenda and i think that's a big shot in the eye of the davos proof but ultimately it still says he how do you generate any kind of popular support for

a movement that is so anti human. in clan in the same time here meaning they never let it a crisis motorways the ministers away you kind of sell the new indeed the new green deal ok because this is the the messaging mechanism ok it's the the agenda is out there need already discussed it need be defined very clearly but then they make up on they mean the green new deal and this is how they're going to push it through because it's global it has good intentions and it is creating a vision of the future that again that sounds very nice year when a group of course you know one of the one of the costs and what if you disagree see that's the fundamental question in dealing with build back better and the result is what if you disagree because it seems to me it's in milton inherently is not to allow dissent go ahead. yes it will again a lot of these discussions were held before the coded crisis and because the 4th

industrial revolution it is already here it is a mistake knowledge is are rolling out at a very rapid speed so the question was you know we have to adjust to this how we're going to just and disallow out of social economic and political issues related to this and once a covert hit. that's why the letter degrades reset again are is that the whole i did you know once we rebuild everything how to merge to do concept our great reset . and build back better but again i would also like to did this concern about authoritarianism now this is very reasonable and i would also point out that it's not necessarily an ideological argument again one of the 1st industrial revolution is when you know we started some different ideologies of liberalism called a nuisance. but i would point out that even among the free market capitalist like they were their cargo you know they did recognize that with increased productivity or machinery there would be not the same equal relationship between labor and

something more efficient or automated today our industries are the more power shift from labor towards capital and again this was also darkman from the from the from the communists or affecting the karl marx arguing capitalism is will destroy themselves because of the inability to cope with technological advances so capital increase increase our expense our labor now as oh it is recognized you know both on the free marketeers. to come to some to have these difficult relationship now and if you see what the last few years how much power to take companies have gotten they are the main companies now and this will only intensify as they begin to take over or industries that belong to the physical world and so again well how old how will society based we restructured i can be phrase which. he said in a few sentences and my own attitude to it be george here this is about i meet control i mean this is about maintaining complete control this is what it's all

about ok i can't they can flowered up all they want with their utopian language but no they want you know they have done it they've done well through this crisis and they want to keep it that way and they don't want to give back their gains ok and there even there are games they can say they could legitimize by saying so we're we're right see how prosperous we've become now when they profited when the state the program gave them large us to not only survive this crisis but to to enrich themselves even more and expand their power go ahead george. yes yes and i think that this is a point made by the to me approach and at the recent davos summit that we already have tendencies before the onset of it massive inequality the vast majority of the publics in the west and the rich advanced industrialized well the vast majority were gainey receiving no benefits at all from capitalism but this

as the intensified by cove it in which has been great impulse. from the middle tosses the great masses and fantastic accumulation of wealth on the power of big it's a big data is of the giant got graciousness all without me out at the end of this bit with vos there is a middle class just simply having been wiped out and you know the the big take the big you know the giant corporations were already had massive file the full on now even more powerful and you know as we have seen. particularly during the day use us election they intend to use it in a very tough isn't way. and this is indeed a very serious problem yeah but george you know to finish up with you here i mean again what if you say no i don't want to be part of this here ok and what happens

if it's not something you can vote on ok i mean they did that you know it's kind of like you know a global executive order ok well like by an authority that may not be deemed legitimate ok when i'm looking at a global scale right here this is going to consul lot of resentment in resistance and and the reaction to the vaccines as it is a is a sign of what is to come because the states are saying this is good for you it may be good for you ok but individuals have to make those decisions themselves and during this the great reset and build back better i don't. cd the individuals concerned here ok all i'm going to finish on this point here general i'm going to short break and after a short break continue our discussion on the great reset stay.

always be polite never engage with a negative a good or confrontational. don't get into any conversation or start answering questions just ask for an attorney. to survive and territories. definitely don't want to be going to trial in the jumpsuit on cups. you're more likely to walk free if you're rich and guilty or if you're poor and. you've got 2 eyes 2 ears and one mouth. so you should be seen in here and a whole lot more in your sand if you don't take that advice easy going to dig yourself a hole. the world. thinks

. we dare to ask. well about the cross talk we're all things are considered i'm here a little to a man who are discussing some real names. ok let's go back to glenn here but one of the things that brought many of the things i've noticed in looking at the idea of the great recession build back better is that we lose a number of things or these ideas are against think the following they really have

no use for the nation state they have no use for borders they have no use for the family they have no use for gender and even redefining what identity is ok these half the country at least in the united states would have no clue what you're talking about but the elites are telling you these are good things to get rid of that's going to be a hard sell it will be a hard sell in europe to go ahead. and i guess that's why it's important well the problem with this whole thing is technology. well that politically if the kind of running with it without this is a live debate because. we want to keep in mind what neoliberal economics is it is largely in the past we've always had a capitalism which tries to balance market efficiency with social responsibility is obviously the political left the finest social responsibility you know redistributing wealth while the political right there defines it protecting you

know communities to family and cherish so in other words both and everyone else always recognize you concretely have market forces dictating everything in life about stars or how is market apartment is made such that the market should dictate everything and this is quite interesting. if we go into this 4th industrial revolution with neoliberal economics because us george very accurately pointed out things haven't been going well for ever or the last few years and it's a reason why is that there's a need to appreciate why is hasn't it also if you see the rhetoric now for. from the by the administration is saying you know come to some outside problem to overcome and move further if forgets what actually happened i mean even at the beginning of digital isolation now the americans who are structured economy tours taking over take leadership in the world now what that meant cos they they were able to extend their intellectual property rights and of course meant and in return opened up traditional industrial production for competition so what happened in

america well part of the finance and i think everyone belongs to try to traditional industry got its day lost their jobs they lost their social fabric everything collapsed and that's why they voted for trump now what we're saying with this 4th industrial revolution is how do we you know solve the problems of the possible district only you know boasting if it was with steroids we don't actually have to listen to those who are disenfranchised by the previous economic model because now we're largely we're automating the committee we are headed there where we don't really need them in a more serious discussion of we don't actually need just people. are not good for anything very easily that can lean towards politics which is not very sympathetic there so i cannot make incentive anymore to care about this will so obviously this is why most people should be a little bit concerned about where society is moving you know you know george mikan think back to like the new deal and the great society johnson's great society these

were these this was state driven but it is this new this new phenomenon that we're talking about on this program here is the state is part of it it's more of a vehicle for the ideas of many others that have never been elected and whose ideas you know again half the country if we speak specifically be of the united states would be ideas that are completely alien and even more than that to them and again if when you're controlling all these you know we get it and then the media hollywood education we go down all of them when they're all in one. warner people feel defenseless i mean you know the we there is the f.b.i. you are looking for trouble supporters revolving january sakes you know if we united center and our podcast the gavel these are like the the least. privileged people in the country right now and they're treated as a threat ok. these kind of people the people that voted for donald trump will never

accept these i.d.'s ok again there's been no autopsy why trump was elected in the 1st place in 2016 england has said so much about that even on this program going george yes but what one very interesting aspect of it is that if we look back on the during the days of the new deal and then post 945 kind of keynesianism that became the dominant. etiology there was a real concern about the alternative economic model. that was the soviet union the soviet union whatever its problems it provided an alternative model to capitalism and that for all the elites within the social democracies and those that they sent in the united states were very concerned about it and wanted to do whatever they could to keep that public happy was something of a soap may be happening today because there is an alternative i think russia and

china are explicitly and now presenting themselves to the well as the champions on national some granite. and anti liberalism they are explicitly attacking the liberal ideology that's predominant in the west and that is really very strongly manifest in the bike ministrations will view and so then they will be some kind of a. difficult confrontation but good happen within the next year or so between the united states nato and russia. you know not too dissimilar from the it illogical confrontation of the cold war it's not about capitalism or socialism it off it's more about you know liberalism. 1 and agile liberalism and national sovereignty on the other side a claim like that the best such and such so interesting when george patton say they're not not about have been males wait i mean it may be china and russia are

are actively showing of their alternatives now i mean it because you know we've discussed on this program how even russian liberals are beginning to say i think they're going to bark in the west tell you that's going the way you barbara mean it is that we can see some kind of bifurcation near i mean people that were willing to say we reject this year and there's a bell fairly new model years someplace that places like russia and china did beings differently. i think it would be a hard sell but again if you have societies the west are so deeply divided even it isn't evident will something like that's going to her. well it could be. the home of the liberal system like liberalism in america component i would necessarily agree that both russia and china will be on time the role i think rather the more critical of the liberal m.p.'s on the other horse. meat i think you know critical neo liberals not now because you can liberal tradition in russia there's a conservative tradition in russia i'm talking about what is but what is basically

how volatile it's the more over the last 60 years in the west that has been talking about get over well that's why our last go for is because a lot clearly this was important for south individual on saturday but it's up to copy the only idea aside to structures around it doesn't bother collecting institutions which has to be reproduced so i think that that's often they go against this idea that liberalism can get us all this liberal idea that this is all concept or ideology can organize a site around it's one month on the job to come up but it's not everything and. and i think that there's good reasons why other countries can maybe looks horse russia and china i mean we already see some tensions from this in europe for example in eastern europe there are many countries who are grown a bit wary of both the excess the so political and economic liberalism can look to countries like hungary poland. they're actually not now in the past how do they

look so the east a little bit towards you know the calmest ideology but the whole idea was if you want to be prosperous in the world you have to you have to have. to have economic liberalism and on the old south arrest political liberalism going to china the whole in this day to the show you actually don't have to do it and so there's a lot of. again using hungary 60 example they're obviously pointing now today at least i think i think they are on my very explicit statement or is that the liberal model of the west will not be competitive if you're sure we have to orient ourselves more towards a model of russia more towards china more tor singh or and who is down more in the east so rejecting this excess of liberalism the way this is so i think i do agree that. the rice own china russia and others in the east of us trade turn it to models for want a list the west has been pushing the past 40 years. so again i think you do see

this split already the west's gambit you george that the splits that we see when we think about the you know that this rhetoric that i'm going back to january 6th going to the attack on our democracy but you know that they're not our doesn't mean all of us it means my democracy not yours ok and this is the only way they're going to be able to sell these ideas because if you'll do you'll disenfranchise them because you don't have a right to participate because you're not worthy of in bracing these ideas we already have this in the in the in the public realm it's already out there in the public square go ahead george right though and i think that what me. it's going on now in the united states with a bike ministration a particularly the justice department of the bite of the structure is kind of declaring war on heart of the public and i think the russians are picking up on this because they kind of remember it from their own history of what happens when a ruling elite class war against its own public and says you know in liked and enough you're not good enough for us at best book we will be chewing this of

mission and then maybe even when you come around and see how you are we are in the next. hour of the yes and i think that's got to you know what this is the alternative model that russia is say going to russia like the humans and that nations matter individuals and that it you can't just simply say oh well let we'll let in 1000000 refugees a year and that and then to hell with what our own people think about it because it just join in on the like that too racist or whatever you can do that oh it doesn't matter you know learn to code you know what is so what does it matter you know you can treat people in that way and i think that's why i mean russia in particular will be on the attractive model because it will it will create a remind countries onery but it's also others like the czech republic poland and are they going to they have the sort of and you russian animus that would be that is the way that it's like what their countries were like 5060 years ago oh ok it

looks like we might. go ahead. yeah i could add something i want out of your to see this change use taking place keep in mind that european union are also its ideology for you know the. 23 years has been. essentially as a globalist institution is moving towards a national utopia. and utopia like this is all about marcus and you're if you're going down you're getting into topics that are separate issues very separate programs are not out of time i want to thank my guests in oslo and to budapest i want to thank our viewers. or watching us here in r.t.c. or next summer remember. i'm going to trust my. purpose. was.

bringing preview from longer. i mean you know instead of whining in the. beyond i'm not scott ph i'm not sound like you have a. kid i don't think is often the beginning of a u.s. astronaut and yet you nationally for sides. in the new all i still mean you know create the. blog that a 6 all extremists all of which i don't know much. new top of that if you should get to build i a will review. in the store and. buying me a copy of night. nice work and let them know that you

can be a. is you'll be a reflection of reality. in the world transformed. what will make you feel safe from. isolation little community. are you going the right way or are you being led so. direct. what is truly wants is free. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths.