disappearing as the government fails to act and in other ways advances the climate crisis and the only answer the government has is to law tomorrow for 10 years said complete failure of political imagination it's a distraction from the real crises that we face and one thing i can tell you from a more pragmatic point of view nonviolence has been at the heart of extinction rebellion protests but that's not an easy discipline it's not an easy discipline when people are feeling left behind when they're feeling abandoned by their government is not an easy discipline in the heat of protest when confronted by police violence it's a mom's. steward's it demands people deescalating people who are trained to deescalate what this legislation does is it made people scant to all ghanaians protest in a disciplined way when it's not him easy to have discipline arguably that's why

a maximum 10 year sentence is being brought in so we don't see extinction rebellion on our streets and of course the police deny any wrongdoing whatsoever they've issued an inquiry as regards the alleged violence against women after the commemoration of. who was killed in south london. well the police can say what they like but what we're seeing and anyone you know with our eyes open can see right across society people from all sectors is society that the people on the front line who be working in our health service. farmers young people they ground parents their parents coming on to the streets because the government is failing to deal with these very obvious crises that we face and it just cannot be the onset that we're just going to lock them all up we're just going to use force and intimidation to beat them back how can the onset of peaceful protest be

10 years imprisonment that is north or a tarion state ironic that the catalyst was the extinction rebellion protests and of course the coronavirus is credited by some to deforestation which is one of the . aims and one of the concerns of extinction rebellion well that's absolutely right david attenborough who is you know why the respected in the u.k. is made that point very clearly the pandemic is the foothills of the why do ecological emergency so it's a taste of what's to come you know we're seeing case we have the u.n. warning in 2016 that if government didn't take action on the biodiversity and the climate crises we would see more and more pandemics we would see existing diseases spread and get worse including malaria and dengue fever and those warnings have been ignored the science has been ignored so far so as not to law can't the people who draw attention to the government's inaction of course some of the

government might say they will need to log anyone up because this bill will provide an effective deterrent to anyone thinking of demonstrating against climate catastrophe as they see it. world absolutely that is the logic of fear is the logic of intimidation and it's the logic of repressing your society so people don't speak out when the injustice against to munge a healthy confident society is you know proud of its active political citizens not that represses that because the violence will break out over then surely in some form we need the wisdom of our society we need the wisdom across different generations we can't just slam it down. there's no future in balance and we see what happens in the u.s. when when politicians tend to stoke culture wars instead of dealing with the real

crises and just remember how our politicians here in the u.k. how quickly they. try to disentangle themselves from their relationship with donald trump when we saw those scenes in the capital in washington and we're seeing in the u.k. politicians play exactly that same game with society in such a fragile state instead of coming to trying healing coming to build bridges stoking not the culture wars the war on wolk as they call it you know this this is the way to foment division and to stir up tension and that's the last thing we need right now although in fairness to the united states they do technically have a constitution so that we know 10 year sentences just for protesting i think just take me through your case because you're a you're a barrister and i understand the proceedings in may against you that may concern

a lot of activists who feel passionately about causes what what's your situation is very briefly yes the one that's right so i was one of the lawyers in the case against heathrow expansion. and the situation in one case was there was uncontested evidence before the court that he drove expansion with main 40000000 tonnes of carbon dioxide just from u.k. aviation by 2058 there was uncontested evidence before the court that made the paris temperature limit of one point font to graze the whole world would have to hit 0 carbon before 2050 and there was uncontested evidence before the cold that if we bridge that limit that consequences for the whole of humanity will be dire where young people on the global south in the front line and with all the contested evidence before the kolbs the court said it is ok heathrow expansion compare sede

the paris agreement is not legally binding because it's an international instrument . and to my mind that was such an immoral verdict the consequence is a so graeme of setting that precedent not just in the u.k. but for other jurisdictions to follow which respects u.k. lol that it seemed to me absolutely necessary to sound the alarm to say something is going to keep the wrong here when our courts or our holding a principle that spells disaster not only for our country but for the international community which depends on that arris limit so to my mind that was the only thing the only moral thing to do to take a stand to break reach the court in bonn go on the judgement day before it was due out so i will be trying for that in my job will be my opportunity to get the court to confront the implications of this judgement and of course the judgment with

one of the court of appeal the taxpayer his money was spent by the government fighting these sorts of ideas that the past climate deal has any thing to do with the u.k. legislation do you think you think the supreme court will understand that the you're talking about the end of the world and home as it happens i think that it's just a very difficult thing for anyone to really understand and that's the problem the science is clear the message is you know unequivocal. and yet somehow people are so stark in their way of doing things that the growth of airports grocery business is usual it's just can reconcile it with what the science is saying so you're absolutely right that is what we're being told and we're being told it repeatedly will the supremes court really digest that really understand the

harm of their own judgments have the humility to acknowledge that well that's a different question isn't it but we will have to wait we'll have to wait for may for that the government of course is giving a 1000000000 pounds allocated to de carbon izing industry actually but at the same time it said it's going to increase the number of nuclear warheads by 40 percent do you think hanging over the top $26.00 more than ever will be a much more imminent than ever idea about the end of humanity i do think so because it isn't just rhetoric anymore people are seeing through the pandemic how fragile we are now seeing how vulnerable we are too to nature's laws so i think even in the global know where we're used to these quite insulated lives as opposed to the global south where life can be much more precarious you know in

places like the philippines where you know tens of thousands of people are being have lost their lives millions are being displaced to hearkens. attributable to climate change and as for a protest itself is it the only thing that stands between politicians and the lobbyists who. paid to oppose the kind of views you been giving me today. protest is an important spark in the works of this joke and all that is taking us ever and you have to close it to the abbess it slows things down it directs the conversation to other places clearly it's not a panacea but it gives people cause for still what it gets people talking about what may or may not be going wrong and it has changed the conversation we've seen how the protests have gone people talking about the climate emergency we've seen how the ground climbs matter protests have been influential and changed the

discussion around systemic racial injustice we've seen how powerful to me 2 movements has been so actually when it comes to these major shifts in our culture not politics it isn't just recent argument it's not enough just to be logical it's not enough just to quote the science it needs us to come together in a just a standard mistreats and so it's a crucial part of changing this disastrous trajectory we're on tim cross on thank you after the break how a barren island in the north sea blown up by the british navy held the key to unlocking the secrets of the universe and perhaps ending all life in it. humanity has never seen such strange natural phenomena before giant coming to this appearing in the young mountain into. one of the another. but never dull

detail for good news if you have to get through your body you go home does not we don't have it that you would be at. this one appeared in 2020. how often and where will new craters appear as a discussion about how dangerous oh they are human the slum only it is different there were no one in 2021 russian scientists came quite close to work. you know what's going on. they built a full scale 3 d. model of the yum-o. . join me every folks on the all excitement and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then.

america depends on the kindness of strangers to fund their speculation and to fund their extraordinarily cheap lifestyle made from a labor overseas and. so i find it interesting the saber rattling going on in washington d.c. right now because the kindness of strangers can evaporate in a heartbeat if they no longer want to play the u.s. dollar reserve currency again and then inflation right now is signaling a 10 from 10 to 12 percent turn inflation rate it just for reality to 24 to 30 percent of pleasure. welcome back in part one we talked about the potential destruction of the earth

whether through climate destruction or nuclear annihilation but the science that led to morris johnson's new trident warheads also saved millions of lives alone gave us the modern computing that allows me to talk to you now a new book helgoland tracks and explains quantum physics from its communist origins to its place now as the cornerstone of our modern understanding of the universe it's all of a renowned theoretical physicist color revelli joins me from ontario in canada carla thanks so much for coming back on the show if remotely before we even get to the book although it's a mention in the book tell me about your concerns about pseudo science given the low vaccine take up in a supposedly sophisticated western european nations. thank you for having me back it's a real pleasure and very happy yes in fact in my book there are pages about come on people don't believe. she said trust trust the experts books about quantum mechanics and they so much want them stuff out there quantum medicine quantum this

clinton that. please listen to the people who know on these sinks go rescale a life when it's about medicine yeah but you say people don't trust x. words although i assume berg. can be said or been an expert himself given how your book opens up in this barren island in the north sea is 23 years old and he formulates a theory that you say has never been wrong tell me about what helgoland the title of your book what it what is it. yeah. well there was an expert he was 23 years old but he was totally missed totally merged in the problem and in this little island in the north and sea held the title of the book he gave the key step to one of the greatest revolution while the great science history of human kind which is to. scope of quantum theory the discovery of quantum mechanics he had the right idea he was totally immersed in this problem because he had been you know

spending his studying years trying to understand it and nobody could do that and i think when you're young you know the great ideas and he got the great idea that started quantum theory which is a basic of all modern science if i would say and so a lot of ordering technology it's based on quoting siri but it's still mysterious because he's changed enormously the way we look about reality and he did it a lot in this little island 23 years old or totally immersed in his calculation is a beautiful page of his diary that's how they be the book opens in which 23 years old or heisenberg spend the night calculating something and then in the night goes up on a rock looking at the ocean and waits for the sunrise or because he has seen something completely new about the universe i mean the fact that everyone in the

world now uses the products of quantum theory apart from say some isolated communities in the rain forest perhaps is one thing but i mean if even you in the book says nobody understands quantum of thought richard fineman like you one of the great science communicators how can any of us understand it then. well that's it that's the beauty of the story somehow that's a beauty of this this chapter of science and it works fantastically well it's like you know a machine that allows us to compute things but we don't understand exactly what is telling us about reality it's telling us that things are not localized opened up like waves and then and then and then again becomes a point in astronomy in a strange way and in fact it tells us that reality is far more complicated than what we think and we shouldn't think as matter as a concrete piece of things moving around things more complicated and it's

a use discussion that goes back. was strongly influenced by philosophers and they're doing choirs to change a philosophical understanding what is matter i'll get on to one of the philosophers that you speak of and the political links they're better on the purely geopolitical links directly and one of the biggest conventional explosions ever when the royal navy nearly blew the whole thing up and as regards your cost niels bohr kidnapped you say and brought to churchill to divine nuclear weapons. yeah that's a great story and it is this group of kids who invented quantum mechanics they're all young niels bohr also the father who are schooled of them or they invented this incredible syria and soon it was understood that it could be used for doing for doing a super powerful bomb. and the. new one was in

fact kidnapped by the british which is a court he was he was ok with that. too to start a construction of the tonic bomb in bombay in america while of the germans heisenberg which started quantum mechanics are. always said to someone he trusted the western. allied not to do the bomb and he said that he didn't want to do the bomb for the germans now this is dispute is not true but is not sure that is true but that's the power of the new physics it only comes out of of that now in fairness we often talk about the destructive power nuclear weapons and nuclear geopolitics that continues in the world today would you say that millions have been saved also by quantum theory. is that m.r.i. m.r.i. is i presume why you say millions have been saved by quantum theory level and the threat that hangs over us from the atomic bomb well sort of center m.r.i.

and in fact it comes up out of the works of the medical the. great scientists there who are already earlier in the 1st very very 1st steps of understand the quanta world did the x. rays out of for. work already activity which is a quantum phenomena. saw all the medical modern tools for seeing what happens in our body rooted in quantum phenomena. and you talk about schrodinger's cat of course now that's passed into arguable common common knowledge even if many people may not understand the difference size implications of it but you're doing was certainly unconventional you say how did his wave mistakes pave the way for all of this. i think it was one of the players and

in quantum mechanics 11 of the people who continue to lead the thinker about it but he introduces the introduce the way function this idea that particles are open up in in space and becomes ways which is partially true but not correctly true cradle sort of confusion i mean i'll let men type particles particles or really waves i think be able to play the awaits too seriously even today in in some way some minor sin which won't mechanically stalked the waves given to too much importance but the point is that you know particle cannot just being one point they can be 2 point to the same time many point the same time and shooting invented this little story with the cat to make it visible i mean you can put a cat in which is into position the same time which is seeping in also wake of the same time or dead or alive the same time and this happens in the theory and this shows how strange the series because it forces us to think that to think the things

are not definite in their positions in their properties somehow the properties come out only when they need to in relation to one another now the implications of this of course are huge tell me how communist theorists. they they separated you say lenin lenin was against the kind of ideas that would inspire mark who would inspire these scientists i want to see communists rejected that not at all in fact the russian school of quantum mechanics has been one of the most productive one of the greatest in the world i've learned to want to mechanics from russian land out which one of the clearest thinking thinkers into reticle physics. but these are marvelous discussion which happens at the time of the russian revolution among the russian intellectuals something which is strictly connected to the the. of quantum mechanics which is a discussion to millenia bogdanoff bugs and of was another of the main people in

the in the bolshevik leadership and is a fantastic intellectual whose greatness i think is not appreciated entirely lanie rolt his book famous book material. and in pure criticisms to criticize bob dylan of ideas but i think bogdanov had much clearer understanding of the new white philosophical ideas which are the same ideas which were the root of quantum theory so boggan of i.d.'s and heisenberg steps toward quantum mechanics are very close to one another and the discussion between lennon and bachman author and. by quite a lot the current discussion about what is reality at the light of quantum theory i think we should all go back to bach then of modern of has been ignored both in the sort of the in soviet russia and in the west. because he was too radical for both

sides of their own courtney curtin i think. but has been a. very deep thinker who i think has got some of the key ideas behind. that the player role in quantum theory i mean maybe the pandemic in the climate crisis has given some kind of lie to the idea we're all individuals in the in the fatter right as margaret thatcher would have it but in quantum theory this this interrelationship is so crucial in as you describe it in this book. that's a key point i think that the correct understanding went in syria what is really telling us about the walser and it's it's in a sense or the one that in bogland of a radical general to a tickle in the standing plays a role which is exactly what you said we understand things better not in terms of individuals that do stuff each one i mean one particle one atom one person one

society but in terms of how things relate to one another that's best way of understanding bubble of will say how they get organized how they work together for doing things and if we and if we think of the world in terms of relations in terms of structure in terms of organisation rather than in terms of individuals we understand it much more deeply i think that's a core message general message which goes far beyond quantum theory of course but is a way that allows us to understand quantum theory better. and i would say is it way that understand how us understand many theories many things that are the i don't know about god i was paraphrasing mark saying the individual is a. fetish but on the practical concerns in the book you tell. horn year in using quantum entanglement to teleport particles i mean the other practical implications apart from of me being able to speak to right now

teleportation and multi-verse is you don't favor as a theory. no i don't think from what the universe and it is speculation of some of my colleagues they may be right but i'm not convinced. applications are from the laser from. a lot of modern technology one of the things which is growing is quantum computing i saw it my year evolution ice computing we don't know there's a lot of investment right now to compare construct computers that weren't explicitly using the quantum phenomena like the shooting a cat's right is is half dead half life and the computer does one calculation of the calculation the same time so it's a computer that can split up the computer many things in parallel and then converge and give us the result. there already some quantum computers functioning but for the moment very small nobody knows really if they can be scaled up and become

effective for teleportation. well. let me put it this way we know how to do teleportation of an electron of a small thing from there to do a teleportation of a human beings like you know in the in the science fiction movies it's long way i don't think we are any way far from from from going there and you think it's over simplistic to draw the parallel of how an observer to arrange is the observed to journalism. and to history you know is not over simplistic of course is an analogy right but it's a general way of thinking the way we do things are the way they interact so. of course are my descriptions which are more correct than this. but he's also true that there is no reality directly outside descriptions so joiners there. the job

you do the job you do it's crucial is the ice we have on the walls and the design of the walls and doing journalism in different ways means changing the rules into good and in the bit so please do it well. thank you wonderful was a pleasure to talk to you. as a rebel to buy in the u.k. for it to morrow that's it for this year we are trying to do it well on saturdays. during the trump administration the u.s. agreed to leave afghanistan by may 1st the biden of ministration is wavering over this commitment they claim the conditions on the ground are not favorable for withdrawal this begs the question what can be done now that has not been tried for the cost 20 years. americans love buying

homes. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country a large understood the bargain you get a hoe and then you know rebel right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. be really interesting to dial it back and think about the longer deeper history play housings men in the united states not just that question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is and for . always. don't get into any conversation or start answering questions just ask.

if. you're more likely to walk free if you're rich. you got. one now. so you should be seen in here and a whole lot more if you don't take that advice easy going to dig yourself. when we watch movies i think they typically make us worry about the wrong thing they make us worry about robots evil but the real threat of the past artificial intelligence is not what it turns evil but just that it turns very competent but has goals that are not aligned with our goals.

this mistake is my mistake i regret that and apologize to. german chancellor angela merkel backtracks on imposing a lockdown and concedes it was a mistake. to be ruled. 3 weeks french hospital chiefs ring the alarm on a quote unprecedented burden as the country sets horrific new democrat for the year yet the government's response leaves people building. and floor showing hate speech facebook is sued for repeatedly allowing online threats to journalists spreading this information.