emotion. we're now told. as a result of using some wood as you would stress it was oh yes you know holsters all of that coming up later on in the show but 1st your treats in as an messages in response to russia last week on the subject of long corporate preaching professor danny altman of imperial college london and dr natalie mcdermott of king's college london mary jo says thanks for bringing up the elephant in the room of long call that the british medical establishment whole approach and treatment of chronically ill disabled people with poor survival conditions such as a me over the decades has been nothing short of a medical scandal might he says on long cool that coming have the $0.05 that is please if one become seriously ill it can take weeks or months to reach full recovery post any disease and that is a fact maybe says in a sponsor but it's only been around for over a year give science

a chance to study it norma says almost everyone i know has been vaccinated at least once no side effects with either astra zeneca or any other is slightly foggy feeling the next day that saw a bit of a sore arm but truthfully worth it christopher says loss of diseases have the potential to make you tired and sick for a decade or more covert isn't anything special in that regard pat says remember that many of us were never tested in the beginning i contracted covered 1000 unfair between t 20 there were no tests and then when tests came you could have one unless you come back from china or italy were very much are known by that and finally few and else and says a good program long cord will be a problem in the future and not over to alex who's in conversation with professor human gunnery. cuban comedy this has been a year like none other for just about everybody in the planet but for the killing services those in the national health service and particularly those in intensive

care this precious musta been extraordinary over the last year tell us a bit about what it's been like so you actually write and says we may yet know whether in a course we have to remember that everyone is a terrorist with lost loved ones lost job and that business is gone but they've had homes to name relationship problems and it's been difficult still feuds comments but look down prevents you socialise and will go have people who are as nice that's been compounded when h.s. flipkens because they faced all of those stresses but also enormous pressure at work putting that in context in weight while we had 11000 intensive care patients coming in with cody needs with the disease we didn't actually get the ones on the stand still so called mustn't matches almost all a lot of tests a lot of difficult circumstances he family's not statements coming and in this most recent where he would have needed 24000 people coming saree now we have she was

soft because he met some price they had sold because not ones being sick themselves with us increased workload which amounts the equivalent of an extra one months and 1000000 per se were weak with equipment running an extra 126 intensive care units round the clock well that's been a very very big on our people he. emotional very hard and we're now told in the surveys that 100 people as a result of that are facing some psychological morbidity were distress as a result so yes in a heartbeat. so people in and tense of care obviously well trained professionals but even the best of training surely hard to account for for was a huge disklabel largely unknown violinists and isn't that fear of an uncertainty which afflicts people as human beings even when the doing the job professionally i

think it did to many to start with i do wouldn't wish this under they can anyone i wouldn't want to have coronavirus i wish no one to die from it but many intellectual ones i absolutely want sits at mom i watch it happen that's all because that's what i'm trained for and being placed in the new challenge that's difficult is not understood that had to me some at least intellectual challenge so that people who were nursing at the edge of the bates continuously but. how insects sickness disease might be uncertain but they might darden's easily taking turns their families when there is early states the 1st lady berry some questions that was genuine and my hat's off to those since not particularly for continuing to come to work day and day as in deeper volunteers we have people coming back to dental receptionists dental nurses and he actually respond syrians sounds nice environment

so. it's a credit. they get a fair to the surface with which a showing that a 3rd of staff have or a recognizable psychological impact especially it'd condition i mean how does that manifesting itself know that the vaccine program is underway i'm in a people reaching the point at which the we can't go on of this still a fighting to to take us for this. well late sneering people are continuing we got so low at the moment the numbers on intensive care been dropping quite steep in the last couple weeks and i remember you know there were nurses and tears before the 2nd wave is news about saying i just don't know if i can do it again they date and how he would take real 3rd wave are great and unsettling where nationally that there are a lot of senior nursing stock reports saying that they're really considering leaving that profession in intensive care moving to community and nursing jones

credits of care jobs things that are quite as bashing frontline and you also carol people present id never people nationally with a special group p.t.s.d. people who are constantly hearing repairing please keep them awake at night feelings that you know it's that they haven't done the right thing that's not worrying as well as phenomena known as burnout which is more to do with no longer being able to feel so it's important that docs and nurses still can empathize with the patient we need to be able to heal so for years and say your family and me have to have some barriers to that otherwise the stories. those barriers of being breached a great deal with this and that counselling people are labels employers anymore i'm able to feel that patients and if they bring that into their relationships at home with their partners and children that could be very damaging to so that's what we're saying we want science it's

a weekly yesterday and this moment. and before seen the potential of patients who've come through intensive care who would come up to and get clapped out of the of the was encouraging is a form of the teams work came intensive care when when a patient perhaps one who was expected not to make up that actually pulls the. it is fantastic actually and we had one just recently like that's a japanese. now leon we did you witness that would make it siri and of course sometimes less stilnox mentally believe a couple its neighbors communicate when they chant and where the model save themselves at media some task or course it says slightly sad thing for some intensive care people because of the much more woodward with a truck lost in the end but we rarely get to keep massive hospital because that can be many many weeks later and it's on site there to say that

a lot of patients who come through intensive care even though we mightn't talking to them that conscious or wait many weeks remember nothing all day is so silent there will be a hospital thank goodness 7 cases without any recollection it's all about having been on the intensive case and that's sad a little bit because i think some of our stop at 60 would be medically are people come back with something to say thank you but say i remember the years war i was never a micros and one of our patients has been very vocal in this i'm not getting late patient confidentiality so that's been a real bullets in the stock because he's he's got the diary that they got messes they were getting and he's quoted them more than he knows their names he doesn't remember it he knows he made a name checks them individually and that's a very positive thing. and for people watching the program as a something q. that they can do tangibly to to help the people in the in the front line of cool through this something that we can contribute in terms of the of helping them the

tunnelling some of the extraordinary efforts are being made on the behalf of all of us what if they wish to have an intensive care society is the national charity that looks after the education training and wellbeing that intensive care stock that's nurses doctors pharmacists visit paris everyone that's there and we do have an appeal anyone who wants what's in intensive care society at 11 come up and be able and those moneys go to charity because overheads and the money is ready to go into supporting mental health and well being we've got a full time a part time since politics now managing for them well set up support educations and go forwards that is so narrow and modern as being that those staff who are often as not well paid working incredibly hard have to pay for their own education and intensive care we'd like to see that changed so any contributions you wish no

question it's all intensive care society appeal when you find it online of course that the people working in tents of care from from all of the professions have got their own lives going on and know the you encountered the nearly stages of the pandemic a family tragedy can you can you tell us a bit about the loss of your your son or school and how you managed to cope with earth in addition to all the other pressures that were going on but there's the answers i haven't coaxed to well with it for the reasons that we described i mean if something bad happens. let's think of the people you know 12627000 people who lost a loved one they would all. be on able to get the support in the same way that i could say yes mice my son. was 3 months one short of being hates being. a fantastic intellect you know he just smashes you see it seems great sportsman.

national so a standard 7 drippy player or ram good guy are kinds of people friends to everyone no matter. what their intellect and what's in the past never about what they have had anyone always smiling. so a remarkable young man with a love of the ocean wants to be wants to. be a marine biology and conservation and it's been lived in the water he and i would still go summer months 789 hours a day when there was a very strong santa ana winds desperate to get water but seemed broken his hand playing would be in november let the workers herm's he couldn't slimmest chrysostom a lot that happens. you can see them again and the moment but damn lift it to him out whichever day trips the posts he was insistent that's what he wants they say

went down support them. both camps they slapped a car on crystal clear sailing with bright leaves in the hot sun and hardly anyone there and. he went in another came out and we found his body. 3 weeks later. and quickly what had happened was that he pushed in so the guilty party. was very good it was holding the can hold his breath for 2 minutes easily to an hour minutes as he was a climatologist you can look but as of late we. say forth i'm not saying he will push his workload and. just. so. yeah it was a last. gasp as it came to me when the major west waitlisted live at. last but as you know as i describe it i don't know if anyone ever learns to. imagine what it does that there's been no

way of gathering with you what you want to. call cry that this is my so is all this. that father is just his brother. there i'm sure. i'm not alone. i think thanks. but i just might. think it will take a break for the 2nd half of the show but i was that was beautiful it splats than. you know a. lot of old people want to go to you. but the pandemic knows you know bourne is just blocking 2 nationalities.

as the body we don't like seems. to be. judging. coming crisis with the sentencing on things we can do better we should be doing better. everyone is contributing each of the wrong way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been masked so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that clear in it together. always be polite never engage with a negative a good or confrontational. don't get into any

conversation or start answering questions just ask for an attorney. survive an irrigation. definitely don't want to be going to try. one. you're more likely to walk free if you're rich and guilty if you're poor and. you've got 2 eyes 2 ears and one mouth. so you should be seen in here and a whole lot more than you're saying if you don't take that advice easy going to dig yourself. welcome back i was continuous as discussion with professor hume i got me of university call this lenten on the long term impact of health service workers of the pandemic professor the strength of commitment of the national health service the people with it is that rivaled anywhere in the world

all of the other health services have that degree of commitment. i think it's all right old suburban and it's because we're integrated it's not to denigrate what any doctor or nurse anywhere that her sesame wealthy assessment to everyone together like this box the national health service here is a national health service we are going into greatly the organization that goes to war together and that's what we did here and that connection made of see huge difference i think so you have medical care and legal team member that know health care systems that everyone listening to this may well know someone who's had a bad experience in the n.h.s. where things weren't done right but if you can cross the swedes we are the best in class pretty much every single domain measured by the world health organization and we do it's a cost that is dramatically lower than that most health care services expend so it's a very good system as remember of course that most

a single person this time she was ever asked to show their checkbook or credit when they thought it was co-pays and nor are they being also paid we're not saying this is a pinnacle of human civilization in the n.h.s. and we should cherish it and recognize what's to it's been wonderful for professor mcgovern i'm sure once a listen to by the various health sector is across these islands far from england scotland not allowed in wales but just imagine for a 2nd that you buy these to get them in the room and were able to tell them the the biggest single lesson from an intensive care perspective that they should have leaven from the pandemic to prepare for the future what would that lesson be. well as my goods norrish grandmother would have reminded them that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure let's just look at who came in here. because 50 percent of our

patients were morbidly obese or obese over 50 percent of all patients with a notice to quit and also deprivation in the country we had here not a preventable disease this infection sees but the consequence which impacted the poorest and the sickest in our society and those sickest people had to since is that a very largely preventable now the way people approach the same part that's just think of the beast is to single out people wrote a weights and tell them that they're lazy or their skin creates or they should just pull itself together and eat sensibly but the problem actually is systemic is we built a society where the cheapest food is often that which is the instapaper us that long as a single mother or father of 4 kids and i could buy that and they're not sure pound in my local supermarket you know walk up to it so we're all sick of the chance the policy where. you can't walk or cycle your kids to school where the votes are

congested and have you see it and so will soon make it hard for people so you are i would say let's invest not in intensive care less invest in public health let's make it easier for people to be helped let's make the bad spirits and safer or more expensive yes but let's use that money to make the hair with the needs cheap so that we're not taxing the poor let's make it easy for people to say can exercise for fun remember when i was still in you were out x. we didn't have exercise we had games because games was fun let's go back to those things the sense of community let's invest in public health so that when these diseases and strike we don't get so many kids in intensive care because their mind set 2000. rounds per day per patients of the coughing intensive care patients and 4142 percent of them it looks like in his late words aright this is a very inefficient way of maintaining her it's all those people who saw i have

a low hole after this too so i would soak about facts and i would talk about the more global issues about the way he treats our planet's we had over 5200 more coronaviruses that could jump across the humans we have lots of other diseases the yahoo choruses that later viruses and jungles for instance around the world all ready to jump from animals to humans and we've had a charity come and go he said a city in bars that's done that we had to jump into humans we've had a 3rd of the h one n one we've had one we've had we've now had 2 and the last several come from planetary degradation if we continue to parramatta molds in the way that we do if we continue to have a huge supply system such that we have continued to puts humans increasing numbers into loads areas of forcing animals together to curtail each other that wouldn't

normally do you say and humans and politics and then if you continue with $140000.00 people every single 2nd boarding injecting which is what was happening just 3 things we will get more of these part of the next hour we will spread them around the world until no one wants to go through this again we will almost without question we will this will happen again but we could limit the number of times that happens again if we start behaving differently and we could limit the impacts if we . address the public character issues which of course are going to save the country moment they make people healthier they wait what's happened here. these are downsides public health is not the software side of medicine and i.t. is the sangley and the public health part is actually probably fiery evans' put the money it's public. but let's look at one aspect of the the jumping of viruses from human to animals and back again when we last spoke you told us of an analysis of

the of the clone a virus variance from the minute population in denmark and france. saying no that that sort of husbandry of minks is a actual danger to human health because of viruses like corona virus. well i would say that yes it is and these issues of course are very poorly weighed by most legal we don't separate risks and hazards so the risk is the chance of that event happening has the consequence that it does let's look at the many farming risks maybe no other coronavirus jumping in changing being in states and jumping out but why would you take congress so hurt someone where an animal skin is one of those things that and that christic we should just that's an industry that just needs to start there's a lot of animal husbandry that's like that too and i'm not saying kill joy now we

all will do things that are bummed that probably aren't as good as they should be but if you think about the diet with. large meats based ice sunsets misstate us to eat it. i'm healthier what works best. actually know our plants and a nice things to eat as well by impacts of the planet's ness and my health is there a message. this is not a ways in which we may. make ourselves all miserable week it's been just as happy if not happy from europe i could demick analysis we just see that corona virus is one of the most dangerous viruses in the sense that it is deadly to turn 6 causes not just a mild illness but a deadly illness on the one hand and is highly infectious in all of civilians but

particularly some of the american ones how unusual is that as a combination for a virus of high infectivity with a relative or higher mortality rate. it's that big the problem with the stars is it's not right nuisance because it's had to splint salt being highly infectious and just dangerous enough to really become a problem if it was possibly fatal killing once rating that the massive lockdowns of that to sense and beats it now except when a situation where it's incentive and not very inventive but with enough people look at the impact of that we have to say these actions that do appear to tony. and i get that there's a big dollop now who isn't there about whether or not down his rights whether 'd more people will suck than the economic consequences of knock downs and so forth but we could remember that you get the complete knowledge and sometimes conflated

i've heard people say and they've since made clear it was not the end of the economic hit for the sake of 126000 lives but of course the lockdown wasn't the savior bunging 26 hours of the lockdown is the state with the potential 6 or 800000 he might otherwise have dies without facts look down situation now. is it worth the economic damages to say that many lives well that's an individual judgment that people make but me i think it's a mark of a civilization that we protect minority population but it's not to say that there are people with you know different you know he's a conversations we need to you need to have nationally but this is as i say i'd like to say this is the last one this will happen i don't think it will be and i don't think rason would suggest that this farce of the needs of the new variants as long as people are not in here because they're not there because they refuse in the

back scene or potentially because they're not responding properly to the vaccine or because they get the vaccine there will be people who get infected and if those people are infected in those people the virus mutates and if it meets aids that character come up with their ins that it's. less impacted states by the vaccine we have becomes a running program i think that's to some degree inevitable there's going to be a bit of a good warfare race their way on the vaccine developers having to keep catching up the new variants but people have been commenting this wait now i'm getting nearer to the net of social distancing and moss i don't know that i would be surprised that that was one professor had been coming for sharing your personal experience and of course for your lack of them it was them thank you so much for joining me again on the alex salmond show thanks very much for having me alex but i last interviewed professor human governmentally

a discussion centered on has unique position as a and outstanding theoretical academic and consultant manning the intensive care ward sofa a busy london hospital over the last dramatic year. today i have discussed other realities the reality of the pressure on the front line national health service staff of the extraordinary conditions of pandemic the reality of the less humankind changes our ways then the events of the last year will not just be a bad dream but a couple nightmare if this virus is allowed to retain a grip anywhere on the planet then that is the clear danger of it coming back an ever more fluent form even more concerning unless we change the sucking stances allowed coronavirus to shift the world and its axis that it will represent the shape of things to come and so for dismay number self and all is sure it's good bye

for now stay safe we'll see you again next time. when we watch movies that are about ai i think they typically make us worry about the wrong thing they make us worry about robots turning evil but the real threat of a vast artificial intelligence is not that it turns evil but just that it turns very competent but has goals that are not aligned with our goals. humanity has never seen such strange natural phenomena before giant coming to us

appearing in the young mt peninsula. one after another. one never dull to pick up again you've had us take your cue ball you know whom does what we don't have attack you want to hear. this one appeared in 2020. how often and where will new creases appear as i described how dangerous own day for human the slowmo my view is due to the 102021 russian scientists came quite close to working out what's going on. they built a full scale 3 d. model of the black hole.

u.s. regulators force astra zeneca to admit its covert job is less effective than previously claims consistencies trials. and drag queen sides and a book called racist play read the washington post is ridiculed for offering parents learning material for toddlers to put it up for debate. we have the piece on the family instead of being naive. could use in books for 3 years talking about. maybe just. a special reports we travel to one of the world's 1st places the school.