but we watch movies that are about ai i think they typically make us worry about the wrong thing they make us worry about robots turning evil you know but the real threat of that artificial intelligence is not that it turns evil but just that it turns very competent that has goals that are not aligned with our goals. welcome to the alex salmon show from scotland where to turn our focus funds more to the dominating issue of the day now professor human comrie of university college london appeared on our show a few weeks when i had a tremendous response that's for sure to his mastery of the feeding of krona virus and the patco impact of covert 19 today in professional government returns to the

show to discuss with us the personal impact on the health care professionals involved in fighting the covert 1900 pandemic we had a few a stock because he. had to look up loved ones being off sick themselves with us increased workload which amounts to a connection i won't once you 1000000 plus hours of work week or the equipment running an extra $26.00 intensive care you ramp the clock now that's been a very very. on a people. in motion. and we're now told race around 100 people as a result of placing some psychological what is your distress as a result so yes it's in a home state. all of that coming up later on in the show but 1st to treat him as an messages in response to russia last week on the subject of long corporate preaching

professor danny altman of imperial college london and dr natalie mcdermott of king's college london mary jo says thanks for bringing up the elephant in the room of long call that the british medical establishment whole approach and treatment of chronically ill disabled people with poor survival conditions such as a me over the decades has been nothing short of a medical scandal might he says on long call that coming have the 5 sense that please if one become seriously ill it can take weeks or months to reach full recovery post any disease and that is a fact maybe says in a sponsor but it's only been around for over a year give science a chance to study it norma says almost everyone i know has been vaccinated at least once no side effects with either astra zeneca or any other is slightly foggy feeling the next day that saw a bit of a sore arm but truthfully worth it christopher says loss of diseases have the potential to make you tired and sick for a decade or more corporate isn't anything special in that regard pat says remember

that many of us were never tested in the beginning i contracted covered $1000.00 unfair between t 20 there were no tests and then when tests came you could have one unless you come back from china or italy were very much are known by that and finally few and else and says a good program long cord will be a problem in the future and not over to alex who's in conversation with professor humint gunnery. this is been a year like no longer for just about everybody in the planet but for the killing services those in the national health service and particularly those in terms of clear pressures musta been extraordinary over the last year tell us a bit about what it's been like. so you're absolutely right it says we may yet not know whether in a course we have to remember that everyone is a terrorist with lost loved ones lost jobs that business is gone but they've had homes to name relationship problems and it's been difficult still feuds. comments

but look down prevents you socialise and will go have people who are as nice that's been compounded when h.s. flipkens because they faced all of those stresses but also enormous pressure at work putting that in context in weight why we have 11000 intensive care patients helping with cody needs with the disease we didn't actually get the ones on the stand still so cold most russians almost saw a lot of tests a lot of difficult circumstances he family's not able to come in and in this most recent way he would have needed 24000 people coming saree now we have she was soft because he met some prices 8 how to look up not ones being sick themselves with passing piece work load which amounts the equivalent of connection one month 3000000 person hours of work week or the equipment's running an extra $126.00 intensive care units round the clock well that's been a very very big on

a people. in motion very hard and we're now told in the surveys around 100 people as a result of that are facing some psychological morbidity were distress as a result so yes it's hard to get so people in and tense of kaylor obviously well trained professionals but even the best of training surely hard to account for for was a huge disklabel largely unknown violinists and isn't that fear of an uncertainty which afflicts people as human beings even when the doing the job professionally. i think it did to many to start with i do wouldn't wish this on democrat anyone i wouldn't want to have coronavirus i wish no one to die from it but many intellectual ones i absolutely want sits at mom i watch it happen that's all because that's what i'm trained for and being placed in the new challenges and difficulties not from the states that had to me some at least intellectual

challenge but there are people who will nursing at the edge of the basics continuously but. how insect sickness disease might be. but they might darden's easel taking turns their families when there is early states the 1st lady berry some questions that was genuine and my hat's off to those since not particularly for continuing to come to work day in day as in deeper volunteers we have people coming back to dental receptionists and dental nurses and he actually was volunteering sounds nice environment so. it's a credit to our house. they get a fair up to the surface with which a showing that a 3rd of stuff a recognizable psychological impact especially it'd condition i mean how does that manifesting itself know that the vaccine program is underway i'm in

a people reaching the point at which the patent go on of this still a fighting to to take us for this. well late sneering people are continuing we got so low at the moment the numbers on intensive care been dropping quite steep in the last couple weeks and i remember you know there were nurses and tears before the 2nd wave this news about saying i just don't know if i can do it again they date and how he would take real 3rd wave are great and unsettling where nationally that there are a lot of senior stock reports saying that they're really considering moving that profession in intensive care moving to communities nursing jones credits to catch up things that are quite as bashing frontline and you also carol people present id never people nationally with a special p.t.s.d. people who are constantly hearing repairing please keep them awake at night feelings that you know it's that they haven't done the right thing that's not

worrying as well this phenomenon known as burnout which is more to do with no longer being able to feel so it's important that docs and nurses still can empathize with the patient we need to be able to heal so for years and say your family and me have to have some barriers to that otherwise into stories. those barriers have been breached a great deal with this and that counseling people are labels when plausibly were able to hear that patients and if they bring that into their relationships at home with their partners and children that could be very damaging to so that's what we're saying we want science see to recreate yesterday and this moment. and before seen the pictures of patients who've come through intensive care who would come up to and get clapped toto for the off the was encouraging is a form of the teams work came intensive care when when a patient perhaps one who was expected not to make that actually pulls the. it is

fantastic actually and we had one just recently like grass at chapman and early on we didn't witness what would make it through and of course sometimes they're still not mentally recover its neighbors communicate when they chant and where but the model save themselves it may be a sun task or course it's so slightly sad thing for some intensive care people because of the much more ward with a truck lost in the end but we rarely gets to mass a hospital because that can be many many weeks later and it's also fair to say that a lot of patients who come through intensive care even though we mightn't talking to them in their conscious or wait many weeks remember nothing of it so some of that will be the hospital thank goodness the many places without any recollection it's all about having been on the intensive care unit and that's sad a little bit because i think some of our stop at 60 would be never meet our people

come back with nothing to say thank you but say i remember the years war i was ever a micros and one of our patients has been very vocal in this and not getting late patient confidentiality and that's been a real bullets at the start because he's he's got the diary that they get messes their way and he's quoted them more than he knows their names he doesn't remember it he knows who they were and name checks an individual one that's a very positive thing. and for people watching the program as a something new that they can do tangibly to to help the people in the in the front lane have pulled through this as a something that we can contribute in terms of the of helping them with the tunneling some of the extraordinary efforts being made on the behalf of all of us. well if they wish to have the intensive care societies the national charity that looks after the education training and wellbeing that intensive nurses doctors pharmacists visit paris everyone that's there and we do have an appeal anyone who

wants gets an intensive care society appeal to come up and be able and those monies go to charity there's significant overheads and the money is ready to go into supporting mental health and wellbeing we've got a full time a part time says probably just now managing for them a little set up support educations and go forwards that is so narrow and modern is being that those stuck who are often as not well paid working incredibly hard have to pay for their own education in intensive care we'd like to see that changed so any contributions people wish no pressure it's all intensive care society appeal when you find it online and of course the people working in tents of care from from all of the professions that have got their own lives going on and know the you encountered the nearly stages of the pandemic a family tragedy can you can you tell us a bit about the loss of your your son or scope of how you managed to cope with

earth in addition to all the other pressures that were going on bus a seance as i have been coaxed to well with it for the reasons that we described i mean if something bad happens. let's think of the people and 82687000 people we lost a loved one they would all be unable to get the support in the same way that i could say oh yes might my son. was 3 months or one short of being a. fantastic intellect you know he just smashes you see it seems great sportsman. so the national civil standard 7 drippy player or ram good guy are kinds of people friends to everyone no matter. what their intellect and thoughts in the past never about anyone always smiling. so a remarkable young man with a love of the ocean wants to be wants to. be

a marine biology and conservation and it's been lived in the water he and i would still go summer months 789 hours a day when there was a very strong santa ana winds desperate to get water but he'd broken his hand playing would be in november and have meant to work in this term so he couldn't slimmest chrysostom a lot that happens. he can smoke again and the moment but damn listen to him out he'd have a day trip to the posts he was insisting that's what he wants there so he went down to portland. boa camps and slapped a car on crystal clear sailing with bright leaves in the hot sun and hardly anyone there and. he went in and never came out and we found his body. 3 weeks later. and awfully quickly what happened was that he pushed in so the

guilty party he. was very good it was holding the can hold his breath 2 minutes easily 2 and a half minutes as he was at the climax our signal but as it looked the. safe was amassing he will push his workload and. just. so. you know it's a massive. may when the major weight is declining the clinical work is that it will. but as soon as i discard it. i don't they said one never learns to. imagine one another does that there's been no way of gathering with you what you want. and i say i can't cry that this is for myself because all this i did worse. he lost that father is just his brother's there i'm sure. i'm not alone. i think

basis but in spite of what i did. think it will take a break for the 2nd half of the show but i was that was beautiful express than. you know. the heart of all people what you go to your. own. little one else seems wrong or wrong just don't call. me. good to see pal just be educated and in good spirit equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

welcome back out of continuous is discussion with professor human government of university college london on the long term impact of health service what kind of the pandemic professor have been going to the strength of commitment of the national health service and the people with it it is that unrivalled anywhere in the world all of the other health services that have that degree of commitment and care. i think it's all right old suburban and it's because we're integrated it's not to denigrate any doctor or nurse anywhere that her cessna welcome assessment to everyone together like this bucks the national health service here's a national health service we are going into greatly the organization goes to war together and that's what we did here and that connection made of see huge difference i think so you the medical care and legal team member that no health care system is perfect that everyone listening to this may well know someone who's had a bad experience in the n.h.s.

where things weren't right but if you can cross the swedes we are the best in class pretty much every single domain measured by the world health organization and we do it's a cost that is dramatically lower than that most health care services expend so it's a very good system as remember of course that not a single person this time she was ever asked to show their checkbook or credit when they said it was co-pays and nor are they being also paid we're not saying this is a pinnacle of human civilization in the n.h.s. and we should cherish it and recognise what states it's been wonderful for professor mcgovern i'm sure once a listen to by the various health sector is across these islands for from england scotland not allowed wales but just imagine for a 2nd that you buy these to get them in the room and were able to tell them the the biggest single lesson from an intensive care perspective that they should have

leaven from the pandemic to prepare for the future what would that lesson be. well as my goods norrish grandmother would have reminded them that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure let's just look at who came in here. because 50 percent of our patients were morbidly obese or obese over 50 percent of our patients with a notice to quit and tells of deprivation in the country we had here not a preventable disease this infection sees but the consequence which impacted the poorest and the sickest in our society and those sickest people had diseases that are very largely preventable now the way people approach the so far let's just think of the beast he is to single out people wrote a weights and tell them that they're lazy or their skin creates or they should just pull itself together and eat sensibly but the problem actually is systemic is we

build a society where the cheapest food is often that which is the instigator president obama is a single mother the father of 4 kids and i could buy that and they're not sure pound in my local supermarket you know rock output so we're all sick of the chance that a policy where. you can't walk or cycle your kids to school where the votes are congested and have you see it and so will say make it harder for people so you are i would say let's invest not in intensive care less invest in public health let's make it easier for people to be helped let's make the bad spirits and safer or more expensive yes but let's use that money to make the hair with the cheat so that we're not taxing the poor let's make it easy for people to take exercise for fun remember when i was still in you were out x. we didn't have exercise we had games because games was fun let's go back to those things the sense of community let's invest in public health so that when these

diseases and strike we don't get so many hits in intensive care because their mind set 2000. rounds per day per patients of the coughing intensive care patients and 41 of 42 percent of them it looks like in this way will die this is a very inefficient way of maintaining parents when they speak to me so far i have a low low hall after this too so i would soak about facts and i would talk about the more global issues about the way he treats our planet's we had over 5200 more coronaviruses that could jump across the humans we have lots of other diseases the yahoo choruses that later viruses and jungles for instance around the world all ready to jump problem animals to humans and we've had a charity come and go he said a city in bars that's done that you had to jump into humans we've had a 3rd of the h one n one we've had one we've had we've now had 2 and the last

several come from planetary degradation if we continue to parramatta molds in the way that we do if we continue to overheat supply system such that we her continue to put. increasing numbers into loads areas of sourcing animals together to curtail the job it wouldn't normally do you say and humans and politics and then if you continue with $140000.00 people every single 2nd boarding injecting which is what was happening just 3 things we will get more of these part of the next hour we will spread them around the world until no one wants to go through this again we will almost without question we will this will happen again but we could limit the number of times that happens again or you can start behaving differently and we could limit the impacts if we. address the public character issues which of course are going to save the country moment they make people healthier they make people happier. these are downsides public health is not the software side of medicine and

i.t. is the sangley and the public health part is actually probably fiery evans' put the money it's public. but let's look at one aspect of the jumping of viruses from human to animals and back again when we last spoke you told us of an analysis of the of the clone of virus variants in the mint population in denmark and france. saying no that that sort of husbandry of minks is a actual danger to human health because of viruses like corona virus. well i would say that yes it is and these issues of course are very poorly weighed by most people we don't separate risks and hazards so the risk is the chance of an event happening or has it is the consequence that it does let's look at the many farming risks maybe no other coronavirus jumping in changing binion states and

jumping out but why would you take congress so that someone can wear an animal skin is one of those things that and that christic we should just that's an industry that just needs to start there's a lot of animal husbandry that's like that too and i'm not saying kill joy now we all will do things that are bummed that probably aren't as good as they should be but if you think about the diet with new table large needs based ice sunsets misstate best eats. i'm healthier what works best. actually know our plants and a nice things to eat as well by impacts of the planet's ness and my health is there a message. this is not a ways in which we may. make ourselves all miserable we kids being just as happy if not happy or from europe i could demick analysis we just see that corona

virus is one of the most dangerous viruses in the sense that it is deadly. turn 6 causes not just a mild illness but a deadly illness on the one hand and is highly infectious and all of civilians but particularly some of the american ones how unusual is that as a combination for a virus of high infectivity with a relative or higher mortality rate. it's that big the problem with the stars is it's not right nuisance because it's had to splint salt be a higher unit sensuous and just dangerous enough to really become a problem if it was possibly fatal killing once rating that the massive lockdowns of that to sense and beats it now except when a situation where it's incentive and not very inventive but with enough people look at the impact of that we have to say these actions that do appear to tony.

and i get that there's a big dog don't know who else is in there about whether or not down his rights whether 'd more people will suck than the economic consequences of knock downs and so forth but we could remember that you get the complete knowledge and sometimes conflates it i've heard people say and they've since made clear it was not the end of the economic hit for the sake of 126000 lives but of course the lockdown wasn't for the sake of budging 26 hours of the lockdown is the state with the potential 6 or 800000 he might otherwise have died without facts look down situation. now. is it worth the economic damages to say that many lives well that's an individual judgment that people make but me i think it's a mark of a civilization that we protect minority population but it's not to say that there are people with you know different you know he's

a conversations we need to need to have nationally but this is as i say i'd like to say this is the last time this will happen i don't think it will be and i don't think rason would suggest that this farce indeed it's a new variants as long as people are not in here because they're not there because they refuse in the back scene or potentially because they're not responding properly to the vaccine or because they get the vaccine there are people who get infected and if those people are infected in those people the virus mutates and if it meets a sick carrier come up with their ins that it's. less impacted seeds by the vaccine we have lives cases becomes a grounding problem i think that's to some degree inevitable there's going to be a bit of good warfare race their way on the vaccine developers aren't catching up to the new variants but people have been commenting this week while getting food nearer to the nets of social distancing and moss i don't know that i would be

surprised if that was what our professor had been coming for sharing your personal experience and of course for your lack of them it was them thank you so much for joining me again on the alec salmon chill thanks very much i'm alex when i last interviewed professor human government in a discussion centered on has unique position as a and outstanding theoretical academic and consultant manning the intensive care ward sofa a busy london hospital over the last dramatic year. today i've discussed to other realities the reality of the pressure on the front line national health service staff of the extraordinary conditions of pandemic the reality of the less humankind changes our ways then the events of the last year will not just be a bad dream but a couple nightmare if this virus is allowed to retain a grip anywhere on the planet then that is the clear danger of it coming back an

ever more volatile form even more concerning unless we change the sucking stances allowed coronavirus to shift the world and its axis that it will represent the shape of things to come and so for dismay number self and all is sure it's good bye for now stay safe we'll see you again next time.

always. start answering questions just. surviving. definitely. you're more likely to walk free if you're rich. or if you're poor. you got. one now. so you should be seen in here and a whole lot more than you're saying if you don't take that advice.

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