just. surviving. you're more likely to walk free if you're rich. or if you're poor and. you've got. one now. so you should be seen in here and a whole lot more than you're saying if you don't take that advice easy going to dig yourself. survival.

to 70. hello and welcome to cross talk we're all being so considered i'm peter lavelle the most pathetic and dangerous consequence of the russia gate hoax is how it is bled into policy at the center of this hoax was to discredit and then finally destroy donald trump now it informs us russian relations the result is dire this bilateral relationship may never recover. cross talking u.s. russia relations i'm joined by my guest in new york he is

a political analyst as well as a former foreign correspondent in russia in ohio we have all over boyd barrett he is professor emeritus of journalism and public relations and bowling green state university as well as author of russia gate and propaganda and in sydney we cross to joe lauria he is the editor in chief at consortium news dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always welcome it joe let me go to you 1st in sydney because they are awake it's an ungodly hour thank you for joining us i suppose our worst fears have come true the russia gate hoax as i said in my introduction was a domestic affair trying to destroy the presidency of donald trump and it did a lot of damage to his presidency and to relations with russia but now it is gospel with the biden in ministration with incompetent people like jake sullivan and tony blinken at the helm here because nobody really knows what joe is doing here i mean this is a catastrophic situation and is as we all know it was

a hoax it's been artificially generated but there were there married to it they can't let it go can they go ahead joe. now it's rate it's way too useful to discard if a politician gets in to a scandal because the the press someone in the press reveals some. unfortunate from ation about them who are they going to blame they blame him for hostile foreign power rather russia and if the pentagon and intel does in his need their budgets to be justified there is russia there for them. if there are social divisions racial divisions in the us people are fed up with the economic conditions and maybe this congress look at themselves and realize that they're not pursuing an agenda that's for the public's interest know they blend in russia so this is way too can mean it . was asked about 3 or 4 years ago when it started if this would end with the 2020 lection and i said i didn't think it would and i'm fortunate i was right this is

a process where the media just who he is whatever these intelligence agencies tell them even though this latest report about so-called interference in the us election says at the very beginning of disclaimer that they document doesn't. have any information that discusses specific intelligence reports or sources or methods and at the end it says that their judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact and he yet without any underlying evidence at all it is gobbled up by the corporate media regurgitated to the american public i wonder how much of the public really believes this anymore it's wearing very thin but they keep going back to the well peter and they're going to keep using rush again as you said in your introduction as there are serious your political consequences and i wonder if the people in washington pushing this is fully considered because well i had with it yeah but john john let me go to you in new york i mean they've kind of made their bed and they're being forced to sleep in it because this was a cudgel that was quite convenient during the trump administration even during the

campaign you could say and now you can't walk away from it you can't on ring this bell i mean there are. going in one direction i mean who in the world told biden to say on a.b.c. news that trumpets a killer i mean what kind of message are they sending here what are the policy implications here i mean i've no it's outrageous i've never seen anything quite like it in my life it is the 1st administration to come in with an openly hostile view towards russia we've had great attempts at reset before but this one is so full blast here i mean what in the world that they've hoping to achieve go ahead john you know 1st of all these people i mean they're not incompetent they're obviously very intelligent they have. immaculate educations and harvard yet these people are so they know what they're doing they're not incompetent do however really believe that do you really believe that i think if you like to get their ideas. their ideological next day or do you quibble it's of the of the taliban in

afghanistan ok that's stream but it is i've spoken to these people let me give an example 120152016 especially when russian american relations were beginning to worsen i was hot tubbing with the oligarchy with the foreign policy elite including george soros had a 10 minute conversation with him at a cocktail party there's a lot of powerful wealthy people there never once did anyone ask me my opinion about russia i was only when the room where i lived in russia nobody asked me what i thought they all lectured me people who had never been to probably been russia once or twice never lived there they all texted me what russia was about this is the people it's the arab street or it's the arab kids they're not incompetent there aren't going to be in their fanatics i do have to fanatics they want to establish their liberal world order across the globe and i want to say you know what peter honestly 767 years ago i probably was with them more or less i was with them that's why i was hobnobbing with them 56 years ago today i'm obviously not with them all over i'm going to slightly disagree with john these people are very well

credentialed they're very well mannered they have a stellar educations but i still think they're incompetent but. they are ideologically possessed and i agree with john on that point you know all over i mean it it's kind of passe if you know that russia is the great bogeyman here and that's all nice and fine you know in domestic politics but it has real world consequences here i mean it is no coincidence that the chinese and the russians on the same day address the united states and the european union for its lecturing ok i mean you know if it's panama or sudan you know it's one thing but it's russia and china to gather saying the same thing i mean this is this is not child's play this is serious business go ahead all over. you know this is as i said on this program before the one thing that trump had absolute right as he was campaigning for the presidency in 2016 was the the advantages this stressing the

advantages of a cross mall between the united states of america and russia of course once he got into power and once. the f.b.i. was crossfire hurricane and then the orcs once they got into motion it became impossible for trump to follow up on the one essentially good idea he had in his campaign a necessity to be friendly to russia and one of the great advantages of that as henry kissinger told him was the would delay the day at least of a great to solve some solidity of relations between russia and china and of course everything that has now how. over the last few years and even more so with biden is going to push russia and china closer and closer together you know there's nothing

more making ready the conventional u.s. hypocrisy on the foreign relations and here we had biden. courting putin a killer and this is from the administration economy and bring it to accuse prince of saudi arabia of. being with respect to the show even though its own intelligence service is a being saying that that is the case and how to bring us up to investigate already the the the suspicions of saudi involvement in the primordial events of of 2000 and. 11 so hypocrisy and then just a few days away from when biden gave you order to kill. this is the man who caused putin but this is a man who gave the order to to destroy facilities on the

eastern syrian border. and he showed up to we think sources tell us up to 22 fatalities i mean strike all over i mean if i go to joe right now i mean joe biden was well he pushed very hard for the iraq war a lot of people died in that conflict here i mean the hypocrisy of it is just astounding but john is absolutely right is that it's their ideological outlook this is what's so dangerous here i mean we're not living in the 1990 s. them so what the problem is with the american foreign policy elite is that the unit polar moment is over but they won't recognize that the rest of the world is moving on in this is why we're coming down with these war of words which i hope it stays that way but words have meaning go ahead joe. well service who's incompetent or not i don't think the intelligence officials in the us incompetent they're able to manipulate the press very easily and they stowed in this latest report on so called

into the election to ference they just a cover on joe biden it was clear biden is willing to work with them he's getting in the program truck tried to do. cross them he didn't see but he dismissed for trying to go against them they hated his guts and they tried to undermine his presidency in a question about it biden is their guy and what how did this show that in this report they clearly aimed that everything anyone had ever said about what joe biden may have done inside ukraine when he was 1st vice president at the time of the coup we know that victor newman said in that leaked member station of biden would be the point man for that and then of course it was a 20th century coup and they took it over in the 21st century but they were like in 1900 colonial country installing americans as a the finance minister giving jobs to carry each family friend of course $100.00 biden his own son on where is her energy and you know biden himself admitted that he tried to get that prosecuted to shock and fired and chokin testified in

a court case in vienna that he was fired by by going to investigate bers of so the whole mess of $100.00 to buy the laptop all the mess that's never been investigated about biden's activities in ukraine around 24 or 10 and afterward was prompt release ripped away in this report by intelligence saying that this was all just russian propaganda which so as it's been debunked it's never been investigated so that's an important part of the intelligence agencies of restoring on a politician cover if they're going to play ball with them so who's really in charge here well you know joe that the it the interesting thing is about this is that it's kind of like hillary clinton's e-mails everybody's talking about how what how it became public but nobody wants to talk about what's in the e-mails so that the same thing applies right here i suppose i suppose the intelligence community is giving a hot tip to the f.b.i. and the d.o.j. you don't have to investigate because we've already determined without any evidence

that is just a propaganda ploy i mean it's an interesting way to bury a very sensitive problem the president has here we'll see where it goes and i don't think it's going to go anywhere is made of i don't think russia gate will ever be closed. we'll never know what happened gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on u.s. russia relations state with our. when we watch movies about ai i think they typically make us worry about the wrong thing they make us worry about robots turning evil but the real threat of a vast artificial intelligence is not that it turns evil but just that it turns very competent but has goals that are not aligned with our goals. don't look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except when such orders to

conflict with the 1st law show your identification or should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point is to create. conflict take on various chopping with artificial intelligence will summon the demon. the robot must protect its own existence as. humanity has never seen such strange natural phenomena before coming to this appearing in the peninsula. one after another. one never about to break up again you've had your she mistook you for you know whom does love with those who don't he warned me of. this one appeared in 2020.

how often and where will new creases appear as i described how dangerous own they are human the slum on my end is different than 102020. russian scientists came quite close to working out what's going on. they built a full scale of the black hole. welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter we're discussing russia gate.

ok let's go back to john in new york and i said in the 1st part of the program that trump is a killer i meant of obviously that you know biden said that putin was a killer just want to make sure our audience knows that john i mean you know what we had we had joseph. representing the e.u. foreign policy portfolio he was in moscow a few weeks ago completely completely humiliated himself by lecturing russians in russia itself and then we had the fiasco in anchorage i mean what in the world does the biden ministration expect russia to do i mean openly allow it to meddle in its domestic politics like it did in the 1990 s. on this side of the pond this is what people are trying to figure out i mean what do you what do you expect us to do surrender our sovereignty. and do our own legal system i mean it's a that's what's so bizarre on this side here is that it doesn't make any sense what they're saying this highly moralizing which is hypocrisy because everything they

accuse russia they do themselves 10 fold ok so i mean what do they expect to happen maybe you can explain it to us all because over here we can go ahead john render surrender that's it you have to give up the mighty american empire. this year knocking on the door you have to do what we say there's no other choice it's only a matter of time history's on our side we're going to win we're going to put you on your knees it's stats it's really that simple these people again they're fanatics they believe that the march of history on their side their ideology is correct these are right just warriors this is what talk about a medieval fanaticism that's why again i draw the analogy with the taliban even though they dress differently and have different haircuts and different being don't have beards but they're pretty much in essence they're the same it's just a myth medieval primitive religious fanaticism in this case the secular fanaticism and it's honestly it's that simple that's the people the top who calling the shots when by example in the shots we know that the people around him but there is also the other element is the bureaucracy this is vast bureaucracy arm policy

bureaucracy military practice and these people obviously are being paid very well they have to justify their existence justify their work and of course that means they need enemies and there's really only one candidate for being the enemy as we know it's russia or china ok china that will be an enemy only to a certain extent but we can't go too far as we have big economic relations with china but of course as you know russia is a very convenient enemy a lot of historical inertia there from the cold war scare big scary country lots of nuclear weapons you don't understand who these people are eurasia your asian continent over sounds really scary so russia will always be i'm and i'm unfortunately i think now russia will always be the bogeyman and even worse the younger generation of americans their minds are poison that's what's really sad sad is me i see our young americans really start now to hate russia so this cold war you called war is probably going to go on for at least another generation which means of 30 years you know all over what you know one of the hallmarks of the cold war conflict is that you know the the soviets and the americans were willing to

look through the lens of you know how does the other guy see us but that was a very important dynamic of the cold war and that is completely vanished right now . i. really believe that they have really no idea what is going on inside this country and the claims that they make about meddling and all that never backed up whatsoever here so there's this inability to look at your opponent and try to understand how they think ok and on top of it during the cold war the united states recognized the soviet union had national security interests in this this come flick russia has denied any national security interest whatsoever their sovereignty doesn't count just as john was saying complete surrender which you know that is never ever going to happen the russian political elites have made it very clear that they will defend their sovereignty by any any means necessary that's a serious statement go ahead oliver on the one hand we can see this is primarily

a domestic strategy as to the strategies of leah's straus sunday the neo conservatives the belief in the cohesive a lie you tell lies about the world that will they they they theorize will bring about greater cohesion domestically that was a basic idea and the result of strauss and philosophy when it was implemented by people like rumsfeld and cheney and so on was to heighten the threat of the then soviet union this is in the reagan years to heighten the threat of the servant union to bring about they thought greater cohesion of values and the in the united states and it could use all kinds of mischief but in this context are also talking of course of the the external consequences of all of this and for rotations between the united states and russia and is not good for the united states i think is

betting on the possibility. under maximum pressure putting russia under maximum pressure it will implode. the those aspects those elements of the into. gentz year in russia who are somewhat inclined towards towards the west and. and great of modernization western model and so on the idea is that they will. join in the forces just content of just action and help bring about the demise of russia i think that's a very very bad mistake but these guys and they even really care about that because there are so many other advantages to them of spinning these incredible fairy stories and a very beginning the 1st advantage is well everyone is going to forget about russia everyone is going to forget about us everyone is going to forget about the clinton email and what was as you said a moment ago what was actually in the e-mails and the going to the guest because

john derum is john durham of the guy who just as reported probably not i see that he's just resigned as the u.s. attorney general of connecticut he's still working on that on the on the criminality of the russia gate hoax but is he ever going to get any one has to really one has to doubt that like you heard because it's going to be so damaging. once criminal aspects of russia gate a 40 exposed oh they say oh yes they never will be they never will be i'm sure i'm absolutely convinced that you know joe i mean i've been i've been russia watching for a long time because i live here and when i look at media coverage in you know anonymous sources you know we hear about all the time i mean the waiting for the collapse of russia any 2nd now agreement saying it bird well over a decade it's going to collapse at any moment right now and the interesting thing is for policymakers and particularly journalists i mean if you can even call them

journalists there describes for power you know there's they never there's no downside for them but i mean actually people get out elevated ok i mean this this and just as john pointed out i mean you. poison so many mines ok and they continue to go on and on and on and they're. never hits you negatively whatsoever and if you and if you do if you're on the other side of the argument and you make one mistake they cancel you ok i mean it's really remarkable how long can you know keep saying it's going to cause any 2nd now just wait maximum pressure it's the exact opposite here ever since the financial crisis of 2008 russia is insulated itself from a lot of things going on in the west if anything russia's internal strength have gone leaps and bounds since then i mean maximum pressure is meaningless when we speak the changing quote unquote russia's behavior go ahead joe. well there's no

question is a big element of self-delusion here i think john got to the point of it was quasi religious maybe to explain why they got to get along so well with the hottest senate at least there is a fanaticism in there although i think they're not i think there are cynical people within teligent saying it's in particular we know that this is rubbish they know that robert russia date was rubbish but it's useful to use that you know don't forget we saw in the church committee in the 1970 s. revealed all the corruption and crimes and deception of the intelligence agencies and since then the 2003 m. in asian the faults intelligence about weapons of mass destruction in iraq and the very much a good story the 1st one the original one which has been debunked a number then robert miller and shown on henry moola being of course this is special counsel said there was no conspiracy extremist trump campaign in russia and sean hannity testified behind closed doors but under oath that there was no evidence he was the head of strike that the democrats were going to try to bring that russia had hacked the servicing he said there was no evidence of any actual

trace in i.e. a hack so that is but they're still clinging to that idea here and they can get away with these reports because it is a self and. it is a displacement of blame from themselves onto russia but what i find really interest and and it's to be able to justify sanctions more sanctions are coming after this report about so-called russian interference in the election which he only did was no evidence and the only really blamed iran and cuba and others it and russia of course was some kind of social media influence so i mean who are the who are these proxies are these proxies indeed banded legitimate indigenous criticism in the us as against us policy that they can defend themselves against by just saying you are directed by a foreign power so that's another way to insulate themselves from real criticism and build up this dismissal maniacal power that's very. very dangerous because i said to lead sanctions on your right they would like to see russia brought to its knees and china what's interesting now is what have. in alaska and what's happened

with putin's response to the killer remark was that russia and china are talking back to a bully it's usually bullies back down so you can see how dangerous this is going to become however you know the interesting for me thing for me is when we look at u.s. policy towards russia it has a whole lot to do to keep nato as cohesion because this is what they worry so much about you know america quote unquote is back to joe biden and basically what they're they want to make sure that the nato alliance doesn't fray they have to have russia is an enemy or nato is is meaningless personally i think it is meaningless and should be shut down last word goes to 42nd street. actually i am a supporter of nato boys in this order of nato but i would like to see sort of an alliance with russia yes against any other problems of who might be in the world and i don't want to go into conflict i don't mean to have it directly going to china you know have a alliance against environmental problems or something less violence yeah i mean

exactly we all have common problems that should be focused on that ok this is what i find really disheartening because there are so many global issues that these 3 major powers could work on and it's one country doesn't want to do it and you know which country it is ok so all right gentlemen would run out of time many thanks to my guests and sydney in new york and ohio and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. a next time and remember stuff was. always be polite never engage with a negative a good or constitutional. don't get into any conversation or start answering questions just ask for an attorney.

you're more likely to walk free if you're rich. or if you're poor. you've got 2 eyes 2 ears and one mouth. so you should be seen here and a whole lot more in your sand if you don't take that advice easy going to dig yourself. for people america no representation of. the problem there's nobody in government that represents people who are not part of a multi-millionaire lobby who work for banks who print money for themselves. unless you're printing money for yourself and gaining from they can tell the fact you have nobody in government representing america not a single congressperson not a single senator nobody in the white house represents you you are on your own. i

knew you would buy a big one for 10 years like we've been saying and you would have $101520000000.00 even if you started with 5 or $6000.00. americans love by and. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country a large understood the bargain you get a home and then you know rebel right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. be really interesting to dial it back and think about the longer deeper history l.a. housings man in the united states not just at all the question of the american dream the bigger question if you dream is for.

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