hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm hearing about germany's foreign minister has signaled that he would like to see a fog in nato russian relations but added the ball is in russia's court really also as tensions over taiwan increase who is pushing for a military showdown. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest marcus papadopoulos in london

is a historian analyst and author of the new book a rise rosia the return of russia to world politics and here in moscow we cross to dimitri bobbitt she is a political analyst and editor and knows me internet media project originally crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciated how it's going to marcus 1st in london so the german foreign minister wants a thaw and nato russia relations by the ball is in russia's court now can you explain to our audience why that seems so odd or actually upside down go ahead marcus well we should all be hoping for in date range for a full invalidations between night russia because the preservation of peace to our fareed large extent depends on improvements in between the western military and the boston federation however it is simply ludicrous for the german foreign minister.

thoughts who is enough cautious coats when into. proof of who is in mason school firstly it is not russia who has violated the nato russia found in acts of $997.00 indeed it is nato because nato now has a permanent military presence in eastern europe on buses western buddhists and that is a major file ation all the agreements of $997.00 between nato and russia it is not russia which has a russian led military alliance on for example americas or jody's all britains oda so in fact the who is in the coats of nato but then nato and the german foreign minister a not sincere when they say that they want to fall in relations they understand the level the atrocious level of relations between 8 and russia and they know that if

there is to be a folk then nato has to take the 1st step so we can dismissal the german foreign minister said as many propaganda and russia will not tolerate any sort of suggestion a whole or suggestion that the boat is in russia's quote russian stipulates nato super quiet instead to be a full in relations firstly nato we drove its military forces phone the west from the old west and pulls out all of russia and secondly moscow who stipulates in a tight nato as late as in particular of course america presence of rights in the western military bloc will not seek the admission into its ranks of ukraine georgia and moldova unless those tube acquirements are met last there will be no forward in relations between the mid western military bloc and russia you know i mean how do

you think the russian foreign ministry is receiving the. because there's it there that it's russia that has a lot of complaints with nato i don't know what russia possibly could do do irritate the nato alliance ok and it's all they they're about expansion and they're of. it in their inability to come to some kind of security arrangement which the russians have been talking about since the year 2000 ok a number of overtures including a time when and then it was president here so i mean how is the russian portman is it going to accept this i mean it seems to me really quite hollow everyone wants a thaw and tensions but i mean what does that mean what does that practically mean and since this is a relationship of sorts that means both sides should be committed to something go ahead jim. oh i think we are working through a very important crucial period in the in the russian diplomacy in the history of

russian diplomacy because in the last 2 or 3 weeks all foreign minister made several statements which which differ from of the previous but if you call i know russia i mean russia is still made you know the last efforts to get western countries especially the e.u. member countries on track you know who didn't talk this week to their chairman or european columcille shalini shay and would you suggest that what he called decisive non confrontational relationship between russia and the u. but i think putting himself knows that this is not the case right now that's why our foreign minister lavrov said this week that relations between russia and the e.u.'s an organization are i'm cold and practically debt so there are some good relations on the buy later level between russia and several members of the e.u. itself it is a very aggressive organization i would say i would call it legal arm of dado you

know in its dealings with russia and and the latest them message from russia is that indeed the ball is in your court because your breach in the spirit of that followed an act on the russian need to relations signed in 1907 in paris by president yeltsin and the presidents over 7 west and you know be biggest countries in that in that statement basically in nato obliged itself not to expand you know its military infrastructure to the east that's why russia late. at least basically to the inclusion trust of hungary in poland and czech republic in 1901 and later the. oh $2.00 countries in 2004 into the nato alliance the idea was that these countries would be calm or peaceful when they feel themselves saga

nato is umbrella by the always it was the case i mean look at the statements that we hear from poland from the boat ecstacy poland says it wants an american you clear weapons on its territory and why do they want that they say we didn't sign nato russia following an act in 1973 he gave not to fly off american nuclear weapons so i want to actually would also think it is right there part of nato but they're not obliged to follow the directives of the alliance and so i mean that's morning to have your case just great you know that the law has every tractor force for them you know since they were not members of nato in 1907 when they really meant was signed they say they're free to do you know to do poison american nuclear weapons on their territory. or you know according to the stockholm institute for peace research russia's military expenditure is just plain just 7 percent or what nato was european allies spent on their defense in europe so who is who

is a threat to whom here however this week we again heard the statement from nato supporting ministers on the 22nd of march a final mistake that basically russia is a threat to nato alliance the general sector of nato said that russia has behaved in the last few years has been getting more and more aggressive and basically my impression is that we deal or unwillingly you know the weiss people in the united states and in the e.u. they feel like they're being sucked into some kind or well maybe stroke you know i want to which they can all get out that that's such a good point let me go back to mark as your team is absolutely right here because there's this tension is it of course they don't want to get into nobody wants to. it into an actual conflict but at the same time they keep the alliance together to have some kind of unity they have to have an enemy and that enemy conveniently is

russia and so they can they can china and china you know what we advocate will get to that later but then there's that tension right there because if there is a thought in the end tensions go down to nato well what is it for ok and this duma pointed out now they're going to think about taking on china because you know this is an alliance since the end of the cold war in search of a mission and that mission is russia go ahead marcus allow me fest it's clarify something one of the major reasons s. white. acquiesced in the late 1990 s. and yet it's a foul since nato expansion in cerise in europe and indeed into the old 6 states is because the russia of the 99 season yet it's he found since you know anything about it was totally different so that russia offsite russia was not in a situation to resists the dangerous expansion eastward expansion overnight politically economically and militarily if the russian off that they existed in the

late 1990 s. we've for instance poets and at its head and the history textbooks could look very different but of course it is the case that nato exists today to council the newly resurrected superpower status of russia that is the reason for its existence and indeed recently the wells was witness to the 22nd anniversary all for nature is illegal and murderous owning campaign against serbia now nato didn't just find light international law and on serbian 1900. 80 it's also who want all the nato treaty. which states clearly and unambiguously that nature would never use military force service

so disputes so next i pads demonstrated not just across a city inspire well it's it's murderous and criminal credentials and of course because russia is again in 2021 a superpower is order to try and contain russia and europe and that i consigned of russia in the well it's the defense budget of nature has 3 creased and includes it's justified to the british public the american public the recent strain increased that has to be an enemy and russia fits the bill perfectly off this to save the enemy. what could the russian side you know that's a good base value what there is they're searching i mean what what concretely would russia could russia it's a redo i mean you have the most expensive basque military alliance in modern history directed against it and the what is what is russia's post they do i mean.

the new front is the black sea and then we have in the in the baltic i think in norway now that you have beat institutions i mean and russia is the aggressor i mean i don't understand you know what could russia possibly do in show goodwill if in fact what we're getting from the german war means there is good will as well go ahead. well basically just on small correction like addition to what marcus has just sat nato in the internet and i'm not only serve also montenegro which was out for mid-east u.s. auto yugoslavia and even though the montenegrin present up a good college and i feel as though i was basically pro-west and he stays in power now for 32 years memel to those in the united states who say that putting a stain all for too long. look at your to college you know you stand tall for 32 years to college was there i bought the steel ball in montenegro so basically it's

a good lesson to everyone if you want to tease nato if you're going to please them it doesn't mean they're going to bomb i mean after the matter is i'm glad you brought up that footnote forrest because it shows that there's at the end of the day nato doesn't feel it is obligated to anyone to explain us all explain its existence ok by jamming back i'm not going to just let it go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real estate. over the forward to talking to the. technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification or should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point over you see is to create

a trance every moment here. on theories chaing with artificial intelligence where some of the demons. a robot must protect its own existence is true for. an entire village in alaska. if another country threaten to wipe out an american. we do everything in our power to protect the. water the escaping climate change poses the same threat right now alaska has seen some of the fastest coastal erosion in the world we lost about 30 feet. 35 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring. is fast and that means the river is

$35.00 closer than how. long was 4 i think we're part of america 1st for. the 1st. 12 months across stop where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this is the home edition and we're discussing. ok let's go back to marcus here let's change gears gentlemen we had a week ago the disastrous summit meeting of china in the united states in the

american city of anchorage i think it was widely agreed maybe from very many different perspectives it was a real train wreck but it had to be expected here and now we have. american and british warships in exercises are around taiwan an agreement between the united states and taiwan about coastguard exercises is heating up here but you know marcus one of the things that i find very troubling is that the lack of knowledge of the inability to actually look at the origins of u.s. chinese relations since the the revolution was under the carter administration where diplomatic relations were established and when that was happening it was accepted and it was accepted when nixon went to china taiwan is part of china ok and as far as the chinese are concerned the 1949 revolution has not completely been

completed it is not been able to regain control sovereign control of its own soil that is never told to western publics whatsoever so this would be akin to. me that of the chinese coming. interest to have to hawaii broadened under its its weight i mean there's there's this pattern lack of respect of sovereignty here go ahead. yes i think it's extremely important. for cross to. know very clearly that. is chinese sulfur and territory that is no dispute there is no legal standing for anyone not america britain. to counter that and as a result of taiwan being chinese so foreign territory china is

well within its rights to use military force to reclaim taiwan i'm not saying i would agree with that i do not believe the chinese government wishes to shoot that . coos of action it is no different to have the syrian government is well within its rights to use of military force to liberate so the new face of syria where the americans are and the northwest of syria whether it's an al qaida is and in recent days we've had senior military officials in america arguing that china no longer respects the status quo. and has instead it off it to use military force to settle the issue the problem with that is other same american military officials have not corroborates it that claims with any

substantial evidence whatsoever yes it is true that on china's sudden buddhist the chinese government has increased its military forces but the question peter is why and i cite the simple. arguments action reaction because of the expansion of the american military in the south china sea combined of course we've britain increasing its military presence that overlay trick very aggressive posture infomercials in a lot of money plays written sending warships mistreats one night i'm sorry i don't understand what do you guys do in there. i believe that britain still considers itself to be a very influential player in that process the wells why because of the opium wars. and because of britain is something to be proud of and nothing to be proud of nothing to be proud of let's not forget that the prison has never apologized for

the opium wars and has never shown any regret for its fruits devilishly in the ok it was greats it is so look into creates foments political instability in hong kong which along with america they have succeeded in doing yes you know damon the big thing is if you look at the other main broadsheets in the u.k. the united states and cable t.v. they talk about democracy in hong kong way and i can actually could see during the disturbances about a year ago with the union jack to be waved around here. oh i'm sorry but the british imperialism brought no democracy done congo it was never ever there so i don't know what they're talking about when it comes to democracy it was an empire and there was no legacy of british democracy for hong kong whatsoever again they think this meddling it as if hong kong is somehow separate from china it

is not it's an integral part of china which when diplomatic relations i go back to when the diplomatic relations were established with with communist china it was a recognition of its sovereignty that included hong kong that included taiwan but nobody seems to know that in media these days ok go ahead well you are right not only in diplomatic trips and couple international law bako so when dig into human side or the problem there are steel and i cheney's and our russian pro-west and you spent us published in hong kong there are freed actions in hong kong where people supporting the protests i get they are part of the whole right so nothing terrible happened to hong kong from any point of view except the western sanction. switch and destroy in these form a paradise on earth you know and you know hong kong may not be as rich as it used

to be known because of china but because of the west the same story with iran basically china has been investing tensile billions if not hundreds of billions of dollars into taiwanese economy china economic and he is not interested in a war it has not been preparing for war so the american and the british military presence in spewing it and i cheney's it's not in any way protect and a new up there but what was interesting during this meeting in alaska i think the most interesting look at it was taken by a colon install the wall st john the gerald baker who wrote an opinion piece titled western culture elites i given away lenin stroke well basically you know just that during this meeting young. women just aren't yes for nefarious you know top man in china basically election anthony blinken on americas human rights record

on estrangement of minorities its systems in need. you know racism everything he said would have been lifted straight from the pages of the democratic party's presidential election plentiful soldier blinken has nothing to respond to which shows you how how actually radical. how big the limitations the ideological the mediations awful mean can't you know so lincoln could only say that she was brick in breach of the protocol he was talking too long she did not a single argument against it because the moment when he often if you would be breaching the democratic party's platform i don't mean to me. it's a it's very interesting you know that as i said in the beginning of our conversation there are some people in the united states and in the in europe on the stand how dangerous it is. and then making the last ditch effort to stall the united states room gettin into confrontation with 2 policy with russia and china

you know our foreign minister had here always welcome last week in china well when he came a right after the meeting in and korea these meeting was very well timed and after that we have an optical in the foreign policy authored by richard haass and charles compton 2 for importance you beat me so i'm going to the states i'm going to give you their titles on pay serious people that i didn't know is prevalent and you can also follow us and what do they suggest they suggest that basically you know we return to more on ideological you know long confrontational rule of the hold with 6 policy you know that that's a good point demon but you know you're almost arguing against yourself in a way you don't mark is here isn't it people are so ideological that they they're so ideological that they came even concert in a debate that's why they know they there's always this need jerk response for militant military reaction because they're not interested in conversation or not interested in debates they're not interested in having someone point out their

gross rank hypocrisy ok not that i'm going to agree with everything that the chinese delegation had to say but you know if you know what if you if you live in a glass house he shouldn't throw stones and that's what mr blinken should have learned and i hope he did go ahead mark yes the americans and the british are not genuine when they pull to claim to be be consult them ocracy him beacons of human rights and it's the gods eons of international oh in truth it is all about preserving western global hedge money and the reason why they americans in the grocery increase in a military presence in the south china sea is to contain china no different to how nature is its and sincere contain russia in europe but then there is none for. from busha there is no fret phone china out to another similarity between china and russia russia's achilles heel manes the north caucasus even though the region is

being so early large extent pacified it wouldn't take much for a serious conflicts and that is why in the $9090.00 s. and even today western special services a still looking to foment or in the north caucasus and at the same time the americans and the british understand that china's achilles heel is in shock and that is why they are alleging that the chinese government sees persecutes in the muslim region of the muslim population of this region and has established concentration camps that the americans and the british have not provided any substantial reference of any kind whatsoever to corroborates that hype indeed the chinese off fighting terrorists in changing notably islamist terrorists comprised of isis cells and al qaida cells there and if they are successful in gene shang in

the fates in the chinese security forces that. a grave threat to chinese in that sense or here is our president in american and british it's no coincidence that we agree is where fighting in syria ok there's no coincidence about that again no one likes to point out that inconvenient truth ok ari one of the what you have been is up 30 seconds on it yep well i agree marcus is quite right the reason evidence that that there is from a seen john or we go or engine to get caught in this civil war in syria and again unfortunately in the concept of powers which mr haas and used to call china suggested is not possible now ideology can it because they create it you know that is seized as they say a system we should prepare s.s. even the thought about it even the thought of all of what they call nonconfrontational. realistic manageable job political order which can sustain differences are unfortunately well warsaw for then in the 19th century when the

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