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a few by which time as is neil harvey he'll be in the studio now it's a bring it out of the speed all the morning news headlines so i want to get that. hello again welcome to cross talk where all things are considered germany's foreign minister has signaled that he would like to see him in a job russian relations but the ball is in russia's court really also as tensions over time wanting greece who is pushing for a military showdown. they

discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest marcus papadopoulos in london is a historian analyst and author of the new book a rise rosia the return of russia to world politics and here in moscow we cross to dimitri bobbitt she is a political analyst and editor and knows me internet media project originally crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it so it's going to marcus 1st in london so the german foreign minister once a thaw and nato russia relations by the ball is in russia's court now can you explain to our audience why that seems so odd or actually upside down go ahead marcus well we should all be hoping for indeed train for a full in violation is between nato and russia because the preservation of global peace to our fareed large extent depends on improvements in ties between the western military block and of russian federation however it is simply ludicrous for

the german foreign minister to argue that the who is in russia's coats when in truth the who is in nato schools firstly it is not russia who has 5 lights it's the nato russia found in acts of $9097.00 indeed it is nato because nato now has a permanent military presence in eastern europe on crosses western buddhists and that is a major file ation all the agreements of $997.00 between mates and russia it is not russia which has a russian led military alliance on for example america's job he's done all britain's oda so in fact the who is in the coats of nato but then night and the german foreign minister and not sincere. they say that they want to fall in

relations they understand the level the atrocious level of relations between 8 and russia and they know that if there is to be a folk band nato has to take the 1st step so we can dismissal the german foreign minister said as many propaganda and russia will not tolerate any sort of suggestion a whole other suggestion that the boat is in russia's quote russian stipulates night super quiet and so that's before invasions fest leave nato we drove its military forces phone the west from the west and. russia and secondly moscow who stipulates tonight's eye night soz leads us in particular to south america pushing to rights and western military look will not seek the admission into its ranks of ukraine georgia and moldova unless those 2 quiet it's all met

last there will be no foreign relations between the big western military bloc and russia you know i mean how do you think the russian foreign ministry is receiving this because there's it there that it's russia that has a lot of complaints with nato i don't know what what russia possibly could you do irritate the nato alliance ok and it's all they they're about expansion in their own in that in their inability to come to some kind of security arrangement which the russians have been talking about since the year 2000 ok a number of overtures including a time when and then it was president here so i mean how is the russian port minutely going to accept this i mean it seems to me really quite hollow everyone wants a thaw and tensions but i mean what does that mean what does that practically mean and since this is a relationship of sorts that means both sides should be committed to something go ahead jim. oh i think we are working through

a very important crucial period in the in the russian diplomacy in the history of russian diplomacy because in the last 2 or 3 weeks our foreign minister made several statements which which differ for almost the previous but if you call i know russia i mean russia is still made you know the last efforts to get western countries especially the e.u. member countries on track you know who didn't talk this week to their chairman of european columcille shalini shade and would you suggest that what you called non clinique decisive non confrontational relationship between russia and the u. but i think putting himself knows that this is not the case right now that's why our foreign minister lavrov said this week that relations between russia and the e.u.'s an organization. i'm cool didn't practically debt so there are some good relations on the buy later level between russia and several members of the e.u.

itself it is a very aggressive organization i would say i would call it legal almost dado you know in the in its dealings with russia and and the latest them message from russia is that indeed the ball is in your court because your breach in the spirit of that followed an act on the russian need to relations signed in 1907 in paris by president yeltsin and the presidents over 7 west and you know be biggest countries in that in that statement basically a nato ally itself not to expand you know its military infrastructure to the east that's why russia late. at least basically to the inclusion trust of hungary in poland and czech republic in 1901 and later the. 02 countries

in 2004 into the nato alliance the idea was that these countries would become more peaceful when they feel themselves saga nato is umbrella by the always it was the case i mean look at the statements that we hear from poland from the bolduc states pull in says it wants an american uclear weapons on its territory and why do they want it they say we didn't sign nato russia following an act in 1970 saw where free he gave not to fly off american nuclear weapons when i want to actually would also think it is right there part of nato but they're not obliged to follow the directives of the alliance itself i mean that's morning to have your case just great you know that the war has every tractor force for them you know since they were not members of nato in 1970 whether they be meant or signed they say they're free to do you know to do poison american nuclear weapons on their territory. or you know according to the stockholm institute for peace research russia's military

expenditure is just plain just 7 percent or what nato european allies spend on their defense in europe so who is who is a threat to whom here however this week we again heard the statement from nato as foreign ministers on the 22nd of march a final mistaken that basically russia is a threat to nato alliance the general sectoral nato said that russia has behaved in the last few years has been getting more and more aggressive and basically my impression is that we live below or unwillingly you know the weiss people in the united states and in the e.u. they feel like they're being sucked into some kind oh a lame stroke you know i want to which they can all get out that that's such a good point let me go back to mark as your team is absolutely right here because there's this tension is it of course they don't want to get into nobody wants to. it into an actual conflict but at the same time they keep the alliance together to

have some kind of unity they have to have an enemy and that enemy conveniently is russia and so they can they can china and china you know what we advocate we'll get to that later but there's that tension right there because if there is a thought and the end tensions go down to nato well what is it for ok and this duma pointed out now they're going to think about taking on china because you know this is an alliance since the end of the cold war in search of a mission and that mission is russia go ahead marcus allow me fast food pizza to clarify something one of the major reasons s. white russia acquiesced in the late 1990 s. and yet it's a foul since nato expansion in cerise in europe and indeed into the old 6 states is because the russia of the 99 season yet it's he found since you know anything about it was totally different so that russia offsite russia was not in

a situation to resists the dangerous expansion eastward expansion overnight politically economically and militarily if the russia today existed in the late 1990 s. we've for instance who'd seen at its head and the history textbooks could look very different but of course it is the case that nato exists today to council the newly resurrected superpower status of russia that is the reason for its existence and indeed recently the wells was witness to the 22nd anniversary all for nature is illegal and murderous on campaign against serbia now nato didn't just fine lights international law and on serbian 1905 late it's also cool want all the night so tracy. which

states clearly and unambiguously that nature would never use military force service so disputes so nature has demonstrated not just across the entire well what's its murderous and criminal credentials and of course because russia is again in 2021 a superpower is order to try and contain russia and europe and that i consigned in the well it's the defense budget of the knights or has 3 creased and includes it's justified to the british public the american public the recent strain increase has to be an enemy and russia fits the bill perfectly off this to save the enemy. what could the russian side you know let's take it base value what there is they're searching i mean what what concretely would russia could russia it's a redo i mean you have the most expensive basque military alliance in modern

history directed against it i mean what is what is russia's most the do i mean. the new front is the black sea and then we have in the in the baltic i think in norway now that you have beat institutions i mean and russia is the aggressor i mean i don't understand you know what could russia possibly do in show goodwill if in fact what we're getting from the georgian german warman is there is goodwill as well go ahead. well basically just beyond small not correction like addition to what marcus has just said nato in $1010.00 i'm not only serve also montenegro which was out for mid-east u.s. auto yugoslavia and even though the montenegran present up a good college and i feel as though i was basically pro west and he stays in power now for 32 years memel to those in the united states who say that in a statement all for too long. look at your colleagues you know you stand tall for

32 years to college was there oh i faced steel ball montenegro so basically it's a good lesson to everyone if you want to tease nato if you're going to please them in doesn't mean they're going to bomb well i mean after the letter is i'm glad you brought up that footnote for us because it shows that there's at the end of the day nato doesn't feel it is obligated to anyone to explain us all explain its existence ok by jamming back i'm going to have to want to just let it go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real estate.

dares thinks. we dare to ask. an entire village in alaska has had to move if another country trying to wipe out an american. we do everything in our power to protect the. water they escape and the climate change poses the same threat right now alaska has seen some of the fastest coastal erosion in the world we lost about 30 feet. 35 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring. is fast and that means the river is 35 closer to the town that was near or as they were part of the 1st for.

welcome to cross talk were all things are considered i'm here labelle this is the home edition and we're discussing real news. ok let's go back to marcus here let's change gears gentlemen we had a week ago the disastrous summit meeting of china in the united states in the american city of anchorage i think it was widely agreed maybe from very many different perspectives it was a real train wreck but it had to be expected here and now we have. american and british warships in exercises are around taiwan and agreement between the united states and taiwan about coastguard exercises is

heating up here but you know marcus one of the things that i find very troubling is that the lack of knowledge of the inability to actually look at the origins of u.s. chinese relations since the the revolution was under the carter administration where diplomatic relations were established and when that was happening it was accepted and it was accepted when nixon went to china taiwan is part of china ok and as far as the chinese are concerned the 1949 revolution has not completely been completed it is not been able to regain control sovereign control of its own soil that is never told to western publics whatsoever so this would be akin to. me that of the chinese coming. interest to have to hawaii

broadened under it's it's wayne i mean there's there's this pattern lack of respect of sovereignty here go ahead yes i think it's extremely important. for cross to. very clearly that. is chinese sulfur and territory that is no dispute. there is no legal standing for anyone not america britain. to counter that and as a result of taiwan being chinese so foreign territory china is well within its rights to use military force to reclaim taiwan i'm not saying i would agree with that i do not believe the chinese government wishes to shoot that . coos of action it is no different to have the syrian government is well within its rights to use of military force to liberate the new face of syria

where the americans are and the northwest of syria whether it's an al qaida is and in recent days we've had senior military officials in america arguing that china no longer respects the status quo. and has instead opted to use military force to settle the issue the problem with that is other same american military officials have not corroborates it that claims with any substantial evidence whatsoever yes it is true that on china's sudden this the chinese government has increased its military forces but the question peter is why and i cite the simple. arguments action reaction because of the expansion of the american military in the south china sea

combined of course we've britain increasing its military presence that overlay trick very aggressive posture infomercials in a lot of money plays written sending warships mistreats one night i'm sorry i don't understand what do you got is doing there. i believe that britain still considers itself so very influential player in that pos of the wells why because of the opium wars. and because of britain is something to be proud it's not going to be fragile nothing to be proud of let's not forget that the prison has never apologized for the opium wars and has never shown any regret for its fruits devilishly the fia in the ok it was great so it is so look into creates foments political instability in hong kong which along with america they have succeeded in doing yes you know

demon the thing is if you look at the other main broadsheets in the u.k. the united states and cable t.v. they talk about democracy and hong kong which and i can actually can see during the disturbances about a year ago with the the union jack to be waved around here. oh i'm sorry but the british imperialism brought no democracy done congo there was never ever there so i don't know what they're talking about when it comes to democracy it was an empire and there was no legacy of british democracy for hong kong whatsoever again they think this meddling it as if hong kong is somehow separate from china it is not it's an integral part of china which when diplomatic relations i go back to when the diplomatic relations were established with with communist china it was a recognition of its sovereignty that included hong kong that included taiwan but nobody seems to know that in media these days ok go ahead well you are right not

only in diplomatic terms in kind of international law but also when take the purely human side over the problem there are still and i cheney's and our russian pro-west and use papers published in hong kong that are out free and actions in hong kong where people supporting the protests i get you know they're part of the whole right so nothing terrible happened to hong kong from any point of view except the western sanction. which had destroyed these former paradise on earth you know and you know hong kong may not be as rich as it used to be known because of china but because of the west the same story with iran basically china has been investing tensile billions if not hundreds of billions of dollars into taiwanese economy china economic and he is not interested in a war it has not been preparing for war so the american and the british military

presence in spewing anti cheney's it's not in any way protect and anyone but what was interesting during this meeting in alaska i think the most interesting look at it was taken by a colin install the wall street journal no gerald baker who wrote an opinion piece titled western culture elites i'd given away lenin stroke well basically you know just that during this meeting young. women just aren't yes for nefarious you know top man in china basically election anthony blinken on america's human rights record on this treatment of minorities its system ini 8. you know racism everything he said been lifted straight from the pages of the democratic party's presidential election plentiful soldier blinken has nothing to respond which shows you how how actually radical. how big the limitations the

ideological he mediations awful mean can't you know so lincoln could only say that she was brick in breach of the protocol he was talking to will and she did not a single argument against it because the moment when he often if you would be breaching the democratic party i don't mean to me. it's a it's very interesting you know that as i said in the beginning of our conversation there are some people in the united states and in the in europe on the stand how dangerous it is. and then making the last ditch effort to stall the night the space room get into confrontation with 2 policy with russia and china you know our foreign minister had a hero's welcome last week in china well when he came a right after the meeting in and korea showing these meeting was very well timed and after that we have an optical in the foreign policy authored by richard haass and charles compton 2 for importance you beat me so i'm going to the states i'm going to give you their titles on pay serious people that i didn't know is

prevalent and you can also follow us and what do they suggest they suggest that basically you know we return to more on ideological you know long confrontational rule of the hold with 6 policy you know that that's a good point demon but you know you're almost arguing against yourself in a way if you don't mark is here isn't it people are so ideological that they they're so ideological that they came even concert in a debate that's why they know they there's always this need jerk response for militant military reaction because they're not interested in conversation or not interested in debate they're not interested in having someone point out their gross rank hypocrisy ok not that i'm going to agree with everything that the chinese delegation had to say but you know it you know what if you if you live in a glass house he shouldn't throw stones and that's what mr blinken should have learned and i hope he did go ahead mark yes the americans and the british are not genuine when they pull to claim to be be consulted them ocracy him beacons of human

rights and it's the god since of international oh in truth it is all about preserving western global hedge money and the reason why they americans in the grocery crease in a military presence in the south china sea is to contain china no different to how nature is its and sincere contain russia in europe but then there is none for. from russia there is no fret phone china out to another similarity between china and russia russia's achilles heel manes the north caucasus even though the region is being so early logics that pacified it wouldn't take much for a serious conflicts and that is why in the 90 nineties and even today western special services a still looking to foment or in the north caucasus and at the same time the americans and the british understand that china's achilles heel is seen jack and

that is why they are alleging that the chinese government seized persecutes in the muslim region of the muslim population of this region and has established concentration camps that the americans and the british have not provided any substantial reference of any kind whatsoever to corroborates that height indeed the chinese off fighting terrorists in changing noticeably islamist terrorists comprised of isis cells and al qaida cells there and if they are successful in gene shank in the fates in the chinese security forces that then post a grave threat to chinese in that sense so here is our president emeritus of the british it's no coincidence that we agree is where fighting in syria ok there's no coincidence about that again no one likes to point out that inconvenient truth ok ari the mail and if you know what you've been is up 30 seconds on it yep well i

agree marcus is quite right the reason evidence that that there is from a seen john or weaker or engine to get caught in this civil war in syria and again unfortunately in the concept of powers which mr haass and just because china suggest an is not possible now ideology can it because they created you know that assist as states a system we should prepare s.s. you will the thought about it even the thought of all of what they call nonconfrontational. realistic manageable joe political order which can sustain differences are unfortunately well warsaw for then in the 19th century when the concept of all was established by russia reserved peace in europe yet hundreds yes jump in here gentlemen make markets and bieber join us here and thank our viewers watching us here see you next remember.

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