we think say what happened in the suez canal in the past few days tells us about the danger of trade wars and the interconnectedness of different countries is this is how one or more of our our transportation are and also the literally on top the international routes of those strategic channels and. you know the transition is so so important so that has a cause for war one so i think that the west. just imagine if it's in. conflict time of war time that it would be disastrous so i think that means you know we should really cherish the peace and we should really say on peace and we should really more in any jew political conflict and we should really i meant tend to trade posterity and trade the flow as it should be so that we can maintain their. interest in many years of countries all together and a country among international trade and we can really secure

a better life for all of us on this planet so you think a world of peace is one where 400 military bases from the united states and circle china and where the war continues arguably in syria on syria there are troops in iraq. obviously the the repercussions of the libya invasion continue that's your world that peace. well i think that's really not the right way to do it i'm of course we should really calm all the peace and i'm glad to see that no the new secretary really concerned you know that the aim of us now is no longer talk or any government anymore suppose so eager the results are bad and then legal resources from afghanistan so hot out of the situation we will get to a better situation that you don't stand out troops to invade any other countries we're not having any governments it will not really follow our model we should

really rely on to your system that you not un charter that everybody signs in really to the modern other systems and use our differences rather than we you know occupied countries or sent troops to to do that since you mention biden secretary of state blinken infamous for foreign policy adventures he also said that well he came close to saying china's response of a genocide in xinjiang and is enjoying and obviously you're here from here in london the chinese ambassador was summoned that's what health of health. not in that you know that's something that syrians to be sorted out i think changes men tend the quite a good step realty and austerity in the awesome of years particularly they have any any minute any of the slamming extremists or any stress terrorist act because

a before of 56 years ago hundreds of the last time i was a lost what i what i also found a very very and dr very dull voice some western media say ok there's one good readers lucked out the figure with 2000000 in their western media were that were comes from that's really. very very official because i don't see there are regions where all all invented that basically there's only about 1012 years a total number they're talking about kobe there's a lot of them but they're not everybody of every family so so i don't think that it was really possible and also the government of china has already said including the government she generally set all the trainees in the education school has already graduated last year already they have said on many times and so and that is so we will use the satellite too to see that there's a lot of buildings and look scams but you know there's a lot of and duties that's not really one well exactly they're so so i don't really

very very you know puzzling where the 2000000 number something that's really one of the factories is so we have many you know international and basses are generous actually 2000 of the business in john and the 800 is actually you know showed his position in the u.n. human rights council to support china so i think that we really should welcome war international and bashers of journalists to come to shoot a visit not really you know find out by themselves i mean it is a for a spokesman china welcomes that now i think that. you know we this can be easily sorted but i don't think that the number of exam also talked about forced labor she just i mean the constant production 70 percent of the cotton picking is by machine whereas those forced labor come forced the machine so you know a lot of things always this is not fact based it's not really it was lost substance

a lot of facts we learnt so they'd be sick and those about we don't we don't really hear much about that in britain arguably britain has banned the equivalent the chinese equivalent to the british broadcasting corporation c g t n here in this country so maybe we don't hear that side of the argument but what about the new york times saying it had leaked documents showing scripts about chinese officials can explain to ex-pat chinese students why their parents are missing i mean these are the kinds of stories that are now affecting world trade. why i think there could be and they don't and you don't owe a duty to easton i am. really also not official dog guards but that don't think there's any mass you know that they're going to you know in a systematic massive. lockdown on people and things like not so that's not really the chinese situation as a matter of fact china has a limited 800000000 people out of poverty 100 really just past 8 years that's the

biggest human rights achievement china has china has actually achieved. gender over 20 or 30 of us 10 years ahead of time just imagine you know you don't see any homeless people in our people with our you know people leaving the streets anymore in china no more i mean that's really great i mean extreme probably has been lifted off chinese society so that's a big isn't human so i think we should really look at a positive sign china's down rather than you know look could be individual cases here and there and magnify that and and really also categorize that as a whole situation i don't think that is a very practical well here in britain way used to the government and successive governments saying we protect human rights by looking at other countries human rights abuses and allegations why do you think it is that china has not summoned the british ambassador in beijing because julian

a surge is being called into the un tortured here in london why i mean at least we did hear from young men when. they you know anchorage or the doctor at blinken about the george floyd trial black lives matter why does china not care about human rights abuses when they're committed by nato countries. well i think china cares about human right i mean no no absolutely no as i just mentioned china has been really trying to avoid the gap between rich and poor china has really use a lot of resources to learn what i'm getting at is this is it philosophical that china doesn't want to interfere with other countries alleged human rights abuses when the last time you hear or any chinese communist party official talking about guantanamo bay what i charge you sure you are all of the every year number. that's not true every year talk about the national human rights violation by other countries particularly us to. as well as you heard from you know iraq beyond u.s.

senator alaska meeting also so i think that you know what we have got i think china's our visual quality ones that that's be a peaceful competition you know we all have problems you have your problems we have our problem but that's not your finger printing a pound in each other let's not beat each other you know problems let's solve all problems china's constitute our solve its own property issues social issues and you know china has actually at 1300000 people as a basic medicare 1000000000 people have a some social security that's the huge biggest achievement so let's solve the problem rather than we really pick on those foreigners and always please others not start right approach even though humanitarian intervention is arguably being a cornerstone of neo liberal thought in in nato countries now for decades you asked where all this stuff about change and comes from i mention one ton of i mean do you

think that the cia is involved in propaganda that some people saying that the director of campaign for the week that he has to be added to a translator of guantanamo bay. well i'm not oh i'm not on top of that but i notice chinese foreign ministry spokesperson there are actually being actually a few days ago show them you do one of the news to be. secretary of. defense office basically saying you know the reason to leave afghanistan and house your side of legalization johnson or we can chart that was open media how we saw there so i mean the way we should really. you know cares to manage all the our country's internal affairs let's debate all those issues and indifference and you will you know platform let's talk about all these other national conference rather than really without investigation without really a fact proving and to categorize everybody. examined as around us name

i'm doing close on china and that's really too much to to to to support to be supported do you think it's for nato zone countries i mean britain is sending a aircraft carrier to your maritime borders the defense review said here that china is a defacto enemy of this country but at the same time obviously britain may not be able to economically survive who knows without the trade with the economic superpower of this century is that a story that's just told to or their own populations by governments in the nato countries keep the trade going but at the same time accuse you of genocide. oh uh oh i think the sand there are kind of scary to some chance to never come to do that but that's not china has always said the freedom of navigation is always there you know if they do

a lot so china never said such chances not cannot you cannot be an asset your isn't possible to us but just you know china has solved this china's suit friendly was the neighboring countries like really being like you know all the countries in the region so they have asked me on china and there is and they are pursuing a code of conduct on the sultan's this although i think the country the region has wisdom and the means to solve rather than we really. know interleave that will be really excited about the arctic outwards so i think in all latin he should of use our own country in the region and 6 so genesis is a really. you know the freedom that a vision is not not not a promise a yeah i mean that there may not be a problem but you know obviously the u.s. navy and british navy is sending ships there just very finely so this philosophical approach to international affairs nothing will be done about me and more as regards

i mean there was a meeting recently of chinese and russian officials in china the russian foreign minister they discussed me and but then i'm going to go in there and ask for regime change the way a nato country would about a so-called proxy. well i'm not very much aware of that but i think you know the basically the. russian farmers certain chinese forms demanding greedy just yes right up to now. is how does a deep grieve and to really to show the. usual common communique energy have said you know these are all concomitant confirm over the some of the count on a consensus the china and russia has which is i think against money against you know john g. john to the people by different standards and things like that so i think that you know they just it's a way that i think the show. you know the consensus and they actually showed they

do want to keep each other in full and also they want to. meet the challenges sometimes all together so i think it's a. reservoir thank you after the break we'll be speaking to know in chomsky's daughter and the doyenne of immigration academia have even chomsky about the rights of president biden's detention of thousands of children on the us mexico border. who are her. room door. her. room. when else so seems wrong. but all will just tell all. of the world up to see her out just to come out again and in detroit because the trail. when suddenly find themselves worlds apart. just of the common ground.

welcome back with the usa continues its televised trial after the death of the police of george floyd which led to uprisings all around the world joe biden is again presiding over the detention of thousands of unaccompanied children joining me now is no interims his daughter an internationally renowned historian in their own right salem state university professor of eva chomsky who joins me from massachusetts even thanks so much for coming on going underground to the world is obviously looking at this televised trial of george floyd taken from the headlines away from the u.s. mexican border how is structural racism do you believe linked to the detaining of children by joe biden on the border between the u.s. and mexico while it's important to look at what's going on with children on the border right now it's also really important to can text to allies it that is. i

don't think that the crisis is should be defined as the fact that joe biden is detaining children on the border i think that we really need to look a lot bigger to understand what's going on and to understand the role of structural race it's a minute and i would say that the role of structural racism has to do with the way i think that foreign policy is a really big part of it and understanding why children are being forced to sleep from central america. and how our immigration policy and our foreign policy have worked together to create a crisis in central america to militarize not only our border but then it's back to force mexico to militarize militarized its own southern border and to force guatemala to militarize its own southern border that is immigration policy and foreign policy have promoted and economic development model for central america and

mexico but especially central america right now that is forcing people to flee. and then forcing them and then pushing them back if somehow with the thing is not pretty and violence and the future who make it to the u.s. border. donald trump was holding them in mexico that is unaccompanied children who are requesting asylum in the united states he was trump was not even letting them cross the border what biden has done is now to slightly open the border to allow in only unaccompanied children. this creates a whole new set of problems allowing india unaccompanied children then what is to happen to them according to u.s. law. they will be released to family members or sponsors in the united states so that if the the notion of teaching of children right now really is only be sorry

to the the recreate of a process to process these children find their family members and release them to their family members so i would say caging of children is really the problem right now with a few honorable exceptions journalists have all been going out there those that 2 areas allowed by the biden administration obviously journalists are banned from a lot of the so called cages and they have been talking about foreign policy in these countries or the history and biden's we talk about natural disasters when it comes to those countries biden's got a plan $4000000000.00 for el salvador guatemala and honduras you think you think $4000000000.00 means much compared to his billions or is it trillions that the united states has spent in those countries. well it's not just that it doesn't mean much but it's also that it's going to the wrong things and i should also say there

is no such thing as a natural disaster. in 2 respects one these so-called natural disasters are a result right now of climate change and climate change has human causes it's not a natural occurrence so when we see these for destructive hurricanes we should not call them natural disasters we should call them human caused disasters but the other thing is that the impact of a hurricane depends on social structures who has land who has houses who has infrastructure to withstand things like so-called natural disasters and who is destroyed by natural disasters well it's the poor. so so the impact of so-called natural disasters is very much shaped by structural racism as you suggested it's not just that oh it happened and it hurt everybody equally but those $4000000000.00 that biden is giving to central america basically

are going into 2 different areas and neither one is going to help the poor people of central america. part of it is going directly towards military policing drug wars and border control that is not going to help the people of central america the other part is going to promote the very same export oriented foreign investment based economic model that has destroyed central america's economies for the last 5 for centuries. and has not helped the poor it has helped foreign investors it's helped profits and over consumption of cheap items in the united states ranging from our clothes. to the coffee and bananas to the fruits and vegetables. that are produced by me cheaply for. us by maintaining poverty in central america by refusing to let central american countries do things like raise

the minimum wage by refusing to let central american workers do things like form unions and our foreign policy our economic aid is has gone directly towards supporting those models that we just mentioned a few examples when nicaragua tried to carry out a revolution in the 1980 s. to change its social structure to start privileging the poor instead of the foreign investors the united states tries to overthrow it when the 100 president in 2009. what did the united states do overthrow him when the quantum olen government in 1954 tried to create rights for workers and peasants union rights minimum wages labor organization what does the united states do they overthrow him so. the united states has a very consistent history of promoting the interests of foreign investors over the

interests of the central american poor and the economic development model. that biden is promoting is the very same one based on inviting in and protecting the interests of foreign investors not on the be distributive model that could actually help the condition of the poor in central america who are we have to automatically invoke your father but then why is it that on mainstream us television channels which have been covering the border caps was none of this in their coverage even as a context you know the sentence. well there's a couple of different reasons why it is that journalism is about the man bites dog story journalists really don't have the in the mainstream media the capacity the time to delve into deep research about why things are happening and you know i went to journalism school. for a year and basically what i learned there is how to write a story when you don't know anything about the topic that's unfortunate but that's

how mainstream journalism often works but the other thing is that assumptions about the rightness of u.s. foreign policy the rightness of u.s. economic policy the rate mis of the global economic order that privileges the united states and i should also say it is the precise full economic order that is causing the climate change that is causing the natural disasters the so-called natural disasters in central america. those assumptions are really deeply built into our society our educational system and journalists reproduce them because that's how they too are educated and socialized we we obviously want you on for your new book in you know month time but i know in the new book on immigration haiti is quite exceptional as an example in your hemisphere there's a new report out saying that biden is using title 42 of the your 944 public health

service act to deport basically more haitians than trumpeted in a whole he year war what do you why do you think haitians have borne the brunt of the biden administration's role. well one thing is what's happening in i mean if we want to look at the united states' role in haiti over the past 100 years there are so many her thick stories to tell the united states of course occupied haiti for a good part of the 1st half of the 20th century. established a virtual slavery system there. in the 191-0920 s. . tried to establish a good plantations there. or to reestablish the sugar plantation system there and when they failed miserably turned haitians into a subject migrant labor force sending them over to work on us on tribulations in

the dominican republic. and of course you know i couldn't i was talking about central america so i didn't mention the u.s. sponsored coup against the haitian president john prescott a stede who basically tried to do the same thing as some of the leaders in central america that i was talking about in the 2nd half of the 20th century trying to do one of the crimes that i knew steve committed is exactly the same one that manuel said i had committed in honduras trying to raise the minimum wage well the united states doesn't want that because u.s. companies rely on u.s. consumers rely on. poverty wages in haiti in order to make their profits ok well just finally finally i know you think the term illegal immigration as a as a term is very nuance word is it the democrat specialize in deportation obama $400000.00 a year and now has his vice president is the president of the united states should

we be expecting more deportations and gave judgment in in what the rest of the world arguably thinks growth human rights violations this caging of children and a nasty petition activity well i think the politicians whether democrat or republican are juggling various various interest groups and the truth is i don't see that big difference between the democrats and republicans in terms of their immigration policies. on one hand there is. you know donald trump obviously work much harder to mobilize an anti immigrant wing base of. you know kind of populist nationalist anti immigrant just we hate immigrants all together most of the democrats including by and obama has not appealed directly to that base and yet both of them continue to appeal to a kind of an economic nationalism obama definitely promoted. and narrative of

criminalization of immigrants and trying to neatly divide immigrants between good guys and bad guys and trying to kind of did the same thing you know he talked about some deserving immigrants who have to be norwegian were the ones he mention. and so did the criminalization of immigrants is also of course racialized narrative. both democrats and republicans have to balance the needs of corporations for. immigrant labor inside the united states the role that immigrants play in the u.s. economy. against this sort of populist vote getting. we need to do you get rid of immigrants so i really see that happening with both and i'm not sure that. that being a democrat means that by who's going to deport more or fewer immigrants than that

have others and the the policy of militarization of the border and. and forcing mexico and guatemala to militarize their borders has been a bipartisan project professor of even chomsky thank you that's of the show will be back on saturday to talk point to a baby 10 years into wiki leaks released the guantanamo files with the oscar winning director of the mauritanian kevin macdonald in the good most lawyers played by jodie foster in the film nancy hold. an entire village in alaska has had to move if another country trying to wipe out an american town. we do everything in our power to protect the. water then escaping climate change is the same threat right now alaska seems some of the fastest

coastal erosion in the world we lost about 35 feet. 35 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring. it is fast and that means the river is $35.00 closer than how the one was a year ago or i think were part of a murder curse for. worse. in the 1920 s. and thirty's several 100 african-americans moved to the soviet union and many of their descendants still live in russia. again at the risk of you know no rush for us though up of stuff jessica chose for worship on things on their way to set their child on the dock national scale back home black american suffered from racism and a complete lack of prospects. is at columbus about the real lybia losing show

one by elsa store on but by doing. so they decided to leave everything behind and start a new life in a country about which they knew almost nothing at all from a very our career and who were through here in the united. around great crowd. lulay of golf you know going to go. and you know almost a 100 years later the history is repeating itself my great grandfather george time went to russia. on probable worst try to go anywhere why not me. when i come here. when customers go. well we do some love.

that's not what's good for market it's not good for the global economy. the french president announces a new month. also ahead. that is in doubt back one of the vaccines available to us from this pandemic appears to pose an increased risk for. many. people under 60. leaving those who have already had the 1st in limbo.