so they decided to leave everything behind. in a country about which they knew almost nothing at all some of the. ground great crowd. a few blown call clues here and now almost a 100 years later history is repeating itself my great grandfather george time i went to russia. probable. to go anywhere why not me. what if i come here.

oh i'm d. so people visionaries me sort of the shevardnadze of punishment for crying is an essential component of our civilization but it didn't vanish when we placed actually make the safer well as home to rosemary richard daley said we ought to coordinate our moral universe to you linda associates director at the canadians you have a big safety research treatment. rosemary richard alley criminology korda nadir at memorial university of new found land this is you saying to your director at the canadian situation of public safety research treatment rose great to have you with us on our show today welcome. thank you for having me it's a pleasure all right so as a researcher of a consideration tell me what do we have prisons for i mean do we or society or prisons in order to punish people for breaking the law or maybe isolate dangerous

people who are correct and be able to tearing others from breaking the law what is it which one is it improved prisoners or is a variety of purposes but in in it's ideal form there is no ideal form so that's just but in essence the punishment shouldn't be your time incarcerated the punishment is being removed from society removed from all of your belongings your. luggage and being and serving out a period of time where you're away from everyone in prison itself should not be punitive in nature the idea of going to prison that removal from life that is is the punishment for her for the different transgressions that result in incarceration robert blake lewis or a prison isn't used that marsters days or a failure can carry the united states they say correctional facilities or question officers etc where do we get this idea that prison can correct people and where

exactly it is supposed to correct so i think when you look at the corrective nature of the rehabilitated nature prison i think every prison service wants to be rehabilitated in make sure i think that's an underpinning prison in east in canada correctional services are very much they flush away in terms of what they offer based on basically whoever is governing who who have or is in the whatever government is is in power so we'll see if we have for example in the past under the conservative harper government a vast change in prisons relative funding was cut programming was cut but then in the more liberal. governmentally will see more benefits in more programs being. presenter just reinstated in the institutions so we do see that sort of change. and as that answers your question there. yes or no if the press break more are

very they're not sure spent a long term in prison i don't know if it's a terrier's or something have a hard time going back to normal life. is there any contradiction between having a goal to correct antisocial behavior and then in order to do a crowd of people with other antisocial people or farriers america i mean who would be able to learn anything about normal life in these circumstances well and that's one of the big challenges so present a most turns mar most terms inside basically is if you get sentenced to 10 years for example you're eligible for parole in canada after 30 the sentence after excuse or is it statutory release i'm in the majority of people are not going away for these extensive periods of time which then begs the question why are we incarcerated is a men's only going away for a couple months or couple weeks at a time eccentric we're removing them for life but we're not not doing anything they're not going to it is not

a period of time or there can be treating her interventions or rehabilitation because it's so short many of our individuals who do go away for longer periods of time and the idea is to be corrected but i think that's a fallacy in our institutions because it when you're confining anyone in these long term living circumstances it is really difficult to implement programming into work with people towards change recall that prisoners and their complex needs many have very complex needs we see brain injuries we see mental disorders adverse childhood events eccentric addiction there's a variety of other there's a full scale of needs that have to be addressed as well for people to successfully means a great sin the prison itself and the challenge with the prison it's up. how does it need these and these directives. well i mean research has visualised karen and often lead to negative personal changes for instance emotional numbing in a video interview if you trust others i haven't heard this term prison if prison

ization. there isn't really an edge hearse aeration system doesn't lead to these if that reason. imo prison and isolation is a very it will turn him loose cannon 933 by connor and it was the idea that yet socialized into the prison understanding in any reality is an end and basically the informal culture is that govern prison lakas prison is a society that in itself in a law in all forms is between the stuff in the crash and all of that the correctional officers working there in the treatment stuff and everyone in there plus the prisoners it creates its own it's got its own social structures in sonder paintings built to for money in burma very much like what you would see in society . in the reality is that the structure itself as much as it's intended for rehabilitation isn't designed in a way that allows people the opportunities to meaning in the treatment turn agent processes that they require in order to move forward and regenerate in a in

a positive manner so there seems to be a disconnect between the objectives of the institution and what actually comes from it and reduces enough in changing personalities and i've had many people tell me that in their presentations some people inside where there is an obligation or an interest in presenting as tough in their be arms over time in marines in them and they tend to have a different type of person a different type of presentation of the time particularly for individuals who have spent a long periods of time incarcerated they tend to see changes in behavior is and you see the market in prison it on those individuals from a lot of eye contact to one of the ins even even tell me his dental care is very poor in institutions missing hannah so you can see markings in different way on individuals. but i mean also being right on the other here in for instance if prison invasion especially people in our changing very bad environment what stops them from reacting to normal life when they're out. and then everyone tries to that

is exceptionally difficult and once released. it in there's a break in your comment in fantasy implementable have never been in the labor market prior to their incarceration especially people who go in interviews thinking what that means to going in and your early adulthood those are one of the appendices in these main opportunities to learn skills are happening in society so they're removed from match people who do have skills those skills can marry because not. one in prison so makes reentry increasingly difficult social networks and other thing need to tweak one a person is in prison they don't have the same connections in the outside world and many times during re-entry you can't connect with other persons who are incarcerated or have a criminal record as as a condition of your release so we see a variety of factors that impact individual and so on and they're not sent out for say sas post release as a result whereas the statistics show that longer and her share sentences cause greater personality changes in prisoners and increased the risk of actually

then turning to crime again so we have there are actually completely correct. i've seen many persons who go in have longer sentences when it comes to mind one they know a lot of people are aging of criminality rate that we see aging and happening are the time of the monies and among older individuals and i wouldn't say that a long prison term will generally be tied to just as our share. very even a harsh and prison term and wouldn't actually affiliate with a higher chance of recidivism i haven't seen stats on actually makes that correlation that specifically re because i've while i was a research for this interview made him across. one of the statistics it may not be true so there may be thing that on one hand are really bad actions cause for severe punishment and it should and that's just is but there is severe punishment leaves

very little chance for a true every location of the offender it is my question leading up to whatever seems what is still the priority for a prison system i mean right now it's keeping coded into the institutions to be honest but i think the priority wants to be in many cases they want to be rehabilitated they want to provide a venue or a space in which people can recognize the consequences of their actions and then move forward in ways that are pro-social it's just that's not the actual case and what tends to happen and then obviously there's the public reaction rate because if the prison system starts to truly care about the rehabilitation of criminals. what will the public say because we have some windows some of them who are it and then who leave them hot soup invariably for class players money surely most societies when agree to that. i think it. i think that's the biggest

challenge like the penal practice in any country or any space is very reflective of how the public views individuals so if you're living in a society that nullifies individuals who are and ensures that criminalized persons remain criminalized it's very difficult to create a supportive environment for reentry and that's one of the things they are looking at a person who commits a crime or we take it over and we don't look at the context of the situation everything else happening that we don't have any ability to blend as a society that is going to be a barrier to their reentry they're not going to have opportunities they're going to be limited in who they can interact and it's going to increase in the challenging those who are ahead take a short break right now when we come back we'll continue talking about anybody's friends currently in place actually make society safer talking to further richard ayoade who logic or data or moral universe and he'll give all and associates 70

director of the canadian institute of public safety research in treatment stay with us. problem drugs don't always come from unscrupulous dealers but from pharmacies to in every state in the united states we've seen very sharp increase in the number of people seeking treatment for addiction to prescription opioids and invented america under the banner of medicine persisted with the pain but instead of trying to wean him off though she just goes after dose after dose after dose and really became his

drug dealer so who's to blame patients doctors manufacturers all the government. historically speaking in the cold war was a great ideological confrontation western liberalism versus soviet communism according to joe biden the great geo political struggle of our time is democracy versus autocracy for by we are in another great ideological struggle but there is a difference the west particularly the united states is the only ideological actor . an entire village in alaska has had to move if another country threaten the wife of an american. we do everything in our power to protect. wanton escaping climate change poses the same threat right now alaska has seen some of the fuss just coastal erosion in the world we lost about 30

feet. 35 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring. is fast and that means the river is $35.00 closer to how it was. i don't think were part of her thirst for. back with rosemary richard coeur knowledge of coordinator at memorial university of new england associates and if they're accurate a canadian city of about 80 research and treatment were to hear about whether pleasure currently in place actually made society safer and better rosemary slow

continue a bit with society or wine since we're trying to understand whether presidents are or should be a tool for retribution or reputation but isn't the idea of reputation of a criminal in itself a bit forward an issue of the perpetrators is in the victim here right so really they're not going to needing reputation are they well. i think if i fury in crackly is you're saying only look at a perpetrator of a criminal act or how to get the sympathy for the when that person is also a they've been in written need of rehabilitation and the reality is when you look at prison is a colleague of mine is doing research and in arm in alberta bronzer she found that upwards we are 90 percent of the persons incarcerated and explains the 1st council events if you look at the leading edge condition i guess the health condition in macking persons who are incarcerated in our federal system it's brain injuries

so they have an individual with a brain injury that is led in and it's tied to their criminality i think society has to recognize that it's much more complex people's behaviors are not necessarily reflective of what they want to do they often don't have intent many times there are their moments and weekend if we can do more for these individuals to be preventative future incidents i think a society will benefit because they can be law abiding citizens who are contributing to the labor market and the economy. rare meaning ready to take in someone who got lost committed a crime once you know out of desperation sounds very compassionate but you know a lot of people who end up in prison are not interested in becoming better and what i mean is that like i hear you when you say you know when you look at these incidents people's history like you usually see that you know they don't have good childhood and they have you know problems growing up but then a lot of people who have problems in childhood and growing up but they don't end up

in criminals you know what i mean so yes so at that a lot of people but one is like just not interested in becoming better and the state has basically given them away from us from a cynical realistic point of view and i'm playing devil's advocate here isn't it like too naive to think that you know hardened criminals will sincerely change you they treat them nice. i believe everyone has the potential for to systems and it's not just a maturing rakhine really aren't are being is it's that lens of understanding that allows us to understand what are the sort of risk factors and preventive factors around an individual's cannot behaviors and how do we see and of course is a person and in this i see this all the time i have i'm not an abolitionist i don't believe in abolishing prisons i believe that we should change the form function of prison but there are certain individuals who do need to remain in prison because they pose a risk to our society but they wrestle at their smaller number than what we have in

our institutions now and there comes a time i've talked to many what you would call a hardened criminal who over a period of time get to a point where they're not interested in that lifestyle anymore and that's when the punishment the ability to change comes from not everyone's going to be ready right away in a short sentence and being inside for 2 months what's that really going to do it's not it's not savings it's it's spending taxpayer dollars they're not getting treatment is not even long enough for a treatment program so what are the what are we doing by that kind of incarceration and then of course like we also have. prisons like in norway they have a maximum security joint it looks more like and i lowkey hotel rather than it has in inmates have privacy and are allowed to make in sterry their own food etc. but you say you look at brave a killer who's committed one of the most horrific crimes and he's you know a regular quietly reading these many festivals our prison put in the internet and

the maximum prison sentence in norway is every 21 years and it has the lowest reoffending rate in the world do you think maybe norway way is a bad scenario for prisoners elsewhere. any the nuneaton this is in the region prisons are nearly still has a maximum security. the institutions or all of their institutions are sort of the image of the nerve agent prison that we see they still rock saloons to max and secure institutions that are you know sellers in bars and everything else they also have a market it's enormous as a society is also more in grace of persons and recognizes that it's in that society has a role in in the actions underpinning anality and is more receptive to curses during re-entry and there are and vantages and really great things in the narry gin system so there's also downfalls there's debt presently prison with debt there's

a lot of focus on the reentry processes and they have high sentencing rates in the last community sentences like there are challenges with that system as well it's not as exceptional as perhaps it's presented it will give the canadian system our minimum security federal institution a new premier in offense there mention townhouses. so it's a very and i've had people tell me that in movement from a muslim to median to a minimum is at that median where this curity is gone and they don't have the same threat in any risk for it to my nation and they're actually able to come to terms and deal with the incidents that resulted in our surveys and there's a lot of anxiety and hard feelings that are married and they're able to actually take the time to earn their sentence in an experience where in their own countries like mary states and there is a pain in there their death sentence or put in someone where if your ally are

needed for deterring serious criminals doing it out towards. i don't think prison is a deterrent in any way and i think the religious supports that it's not the other thing that i read question there is if an individual committed a crime so he's taken individual community crime and trauma. in 20 years later when that individual is 40 are you still punishing the person who committed the crime or is the person being punished for something that they were a completely different person at the time one doesn't expire one is a person's actions no longer what you need to judge them for on an everyday basis so that if we think of ourselves like in the back to things i did in my twenty's i would want no room for that in our twenty's in an inner teen's allan's in time circumstances can evolve and with prisoners with any criminals person that one out determines who they are moving forward and the homes is going to commit a crime at 20 and they can be $65.00 and we still look at them as as that 20 year

old who committed acts. who doesn't expire what is the what is the process one can a person against fire should change. i know that the consequences of committing a crime will be soft that i'm not in real danger would there be more predisposed to actually going through the crime. the search does suggest that deterrence that that punishments like that don't don't serve as deterrence be an enemy as most people don't view themselves as following in that trajectory and most crimes are not planned of intent. you know the beer and protest sort of thrift new wife into the prison opposition movement and you said you don't believe in their career but the movement main goal is to final turn to shame prison 1000000 punishment what could a layman i really hope the movement's goals of finding alternatives to punishment and not just punishment alternatives to the whole carswell entity i just would not

advocate for the pure abolition prisons the one. we aren't a single one meal it could be alternatives be realistically speaking there's a lot we can do with our separation and there's a lot we can do with not holding people in prison he did not commit violent offenses and don't pose a threat to society he can release them and has been in different contexts and no need for like intermittent sentences people who research weekends beginning in society are weak why they need to be in prison on weekends and there's other types of monitors a lot of front and back and sentencing that can be done from 10 being like and released on released on bail the turn it is an entire punitive system of treatment courts angle to treatment programs instead and in our survey sion it you know there's a variety of different structures in place that we can use instead of turn towards imprisonment and then are bad and people do serve time in prison we need to do more to mest in their reintegration and that includes investing in the person supporting

their reintegration so that they have. the capabilities in or in a state where they're in will to do that with the needed resources. and also a. criminal behavior is often written power to abuse in childhood like you've heard of kinds of things taking in this era can there even be a concept of justice that does not revolve around retribution. and i i didn't issue a little bit with this and the ties between poverty ending our solution criminality is one of the things is there are many people who live in degrees of ari who don't turn to crime and there are many very affluent white collar crime is a huge huge portion of what happens but he is nonviolent so doesn't result in the same like the prison sentences so anything any gets complicated to make those kind of on correlations i think you have to be a bit cautious in doing that because it's email get better who actually talk to

people and hear their stories of what resulted in a in behavior you know sometimes it's just less style and it's cyclical it can be learned other times it can be something that happens an event or in the mood to motions in and certain things there's a lot of different reasons that people. and i think if we try to overly dramatic correlation between poverty and crime don't see the bigger picture and also fosli pains individuals who are experiencing poverty as susceptible to criminality and i didn't think that's the case but the question was do you think there can ever be another concept of justice death doesn't necessarily revolve around retribution or is retribution the only concept of justice if i have all. i think there is and i think the restorative justice practices show you let me

don't need don't need retribution in order to justice so restorative practices even then that notion of going to get written an offender for mediation it provides a different space in law in order to look at how we move forward and i think these kinds of alternatives will release are people well because i don't think most people want to see persons being tracked or penalized for a specific action. but it has to be it's complicated because with prisons you have to balance the needs and the desires of the lib dems in nature that didn't recognize they also to look at the person who did the ending and figure out what's leading there what challenges are there and head and forward. grocery bags are up for this one of them to our friends and so i heard garth's. best of luck with everything. thank you have a great day. take care. in

the 1920 s. and thirty's several 100 african-americans moved to the soviet union and many of their descendants still live in russia. again at the risk of no no rush but i thought put a stop yes it got. on things on their way. back home but i can merican suffered from racism and a complete lack of prospects. is that not just about the real. one by elsa store on her by doing. so they decided to leave everything behind and start a new life in a country about which they knew almost nothing at all some of the american rear

troops who were to prove your new. found great secret. lulay a dwarf you going to call me and now almost a 100 years later the history is repeating itself my great grandfather george time went to russia. probable worst time to go anywhere why not me. let him i come here. for. this and you know became the bottleneck is a valid excuse your movement and you know full well you see there is a girlfriend who should lead or fall through equal to the division of the said action on this lead before it's not you go out to dave and socially then cop at least those so-called peace with the other students all against you between so

you. know it's those who say only. humanity has never seen such strange natural phenomena before all. this appearing in the. one after another. one. of us to take you for you know whom does. he want. this one appeared in 2020. how often and where will new creases appear. how dangerous own day for human the slum only it is different than 121 russian scientists came quite close to working out what's going on. they build a full scale 3 d.

model of the black hole. one police officer is killed and another injured in a car ramming outside the u.s. capitol the suspect is shot dead at the scene. and. germany says it's ready to go it alone in getting vaccines if the e.u. fails to fix its stagnant program those concerns were shared by the world health organization's executive director for europe in an exclusive interview with our chief international. along. rapidly approaching 1000000 in the european region but also because we don't see the sparks. and french doctors vent their fury at.