there is tense and ties it to i think there is no place for panic and every person must go and vote takings of his generation to continue government dependency creations indeed born this adultery never to be poor but only people gave it everything to the wrong because of those donations and even. i would see it since in our country mourners with nicky erin in about 30 minutes time she'll bring a full and fresh look there that does it for me and for the weekly i'll see you tomorrow.

hello and welcome to crossfire are all things are considered i'm peter lavelle ukraine is back in the news and not in a good way escalating rhetoric could lead to more complex within ukraine who is driving this impending conflict in and why or is this all about isolating russia.

discussing ukraine i'm joined by my guest llangollen in the search he is the director of the crisis research institute and here in moscow we're joined by dmitri bomblets he is a political analyst and editor in us me internet media project gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciated. well i was going to wear a person oxford mark and there's a lot of dangerous and reckless rhetoric i would say going on about what's going on within the ukraine and ukraine russia relations here we have. the united states talking the defense chief they're. going to his counterparts in ukraine nato is making statements here of course russia is acting in a provocative way which that's what they always say here i mean are we in the fog

of politics at this point here what's going on and what's the is there any sense to the timing of what's going on here go ahead mark well i think there are so many issues which ukrainians bring still bubbling to the surface the local issues including with him we read in groups in your crighton so that the more radical nationalist groups see i mean tension would only as a way of emphasizing will need to abolition with me or with national schools of just trying crackdowns when people are critical of the government policy about 6 some kind of compromise solution. and there are people in the west who. i think mistakenly think that it's important to expose the russian aggressive designs by raising with tension and perhaps or even some cynics who think that if there is a renewed conflict in the dome it will more broadly to princeton stop with north stream cast line through the baltic to germany and russia will things the danger it

seems when the situation turns into more. religious groups as well as regular force somebody to do something very stupid sets off a spiral out control and. because people are being accustomed and that's what's going to happen it also plays into that bank so i think it's very dangerous to go home and when one of us is all the people in the west if we washington trying to restrain ukrainians are always a sense of what we came to with was a promise period when all this was wrong or quite common to aggressive forward posturing and the trump war is russia of course was not impact. inclined to actually get involved in cote. cyndi lauper off is not a person prone to hyperbole but he is quoted as saying that if there's a new military conflict in ukraine's east it could destroy the sovereign state of ukraine that's a remarkable statement to be making here it shows that the russians take this

extremely seriously go what is your reaction to the foreign minister's words well the last time we would have heard of this rhetoric from moscow was during that whole car won't come up you know 2 years ago where there was a real danger that ukraine would escalate while the games took weighs just you know hundreds of miles from the border you know in the last off so that president putin in order to prevent any assault of stupid actions from one of the. greenside said that all these might be and that and all of your ukraine and then to understand of and of course you didn't mean the prussia will occupied by humint that this would finally split to the ukrainian society because according to object you opinion polls in ukraine not more than 17 or 18 percent of ukrainians and that includes nationalist western regions more than 18 percent of them support military action in

indoor must support an attack and basically the last all honest opinion poll was published in ukraine 55 percent of the people were for negotiations with the authorities in don't ask kind of people's republic so i think the message from our overall was that you know don't do anything stupid them i'd have political consequences for you when you buy you a but you know think about your future think of your country before doing something fatal and basically if we woke up the rhetoric from the ukrainian side you know there is do you believe in kiev because by then find a day for the phone talk when the presence of density so it creates an impression that the horse was a boat addressed in that tension was abolished somehow condoning for the scenes

order against you when he talked to widely to president trump. you know more than one year ago and we remember you know that was a sickening conversation because zielinski is a is a viceroy of the united states in ukraine and the tragedy of the tragedy over ukrainian u.s. relations is that both zielinski and the former prosecutor general sam call they didn't understand american politics they thought that was really the president they thought that he was rude in the united states which was. mistake. there is all it was that basically a start up spewing out compromise on the former american ambassador in kiev a merry go on it basically it was not a compromise it was all true if you know she was ordering him what to do but she didn't understand you know i know it was and then you go trump but they didn't mean that he won't be part they have to buy trump and giuliani and trump and do it

isolate it in the united states so now suddenly it won't sound all that former prosecutor general here crane felt a sudden pressing need to study english and one of them and then he create his job and now he's in london or somewhere else studying english as he learns he made the same mistake you thought that crumples for you the president of the united states you talk to him politely and that cost him dearly so now i think that the period of penitence is over our wireless talking to him again oh no the rays of a good point that's a really good point mark and he. misunderstood as beamer had said the misunderstanding by now is well because there's a lot of burning because the landscape was elected is basically being a reaching out and being much more open to potential conversations with russia obviously he did well in the elections party did well in the election. and because

it was russian speakers in the east that say we're going to get this guy i mean is he just given up on all of this or the people that he's depended upon they've given a bonus here because it seems new with his years reverence seems remarkably changed or is it because they can't get anything done and will be no nonsense theory is the only thing you can do you know i think i think we're trying to do selenski is that he had such a launch majority and he acted decisively in the famous. in might have been able to do some things that would have shifted every day. from ukraine every call me in a better direction the common situation there's no doubt of that but instead there has been stagnation from trying to hold things that are afraid to say ukraine ever since independence one of the most terrible statistics about ukraine is that life expectancy has been polling since 164. i'm not even a russian i like expectancy of repricing it was a ko it was like

a dance about but still we have. crime history in a sense in the late soviet missile crisis society and chaos immigration and all of that isn't helped by austrian national issues because it doesn't solve the problem in many ways if you want it's great to stay where you crank the best way was to create a branch or a moment situations or most people would say iran is a good place where as long as you have all these problems by the way much fall west you shouldn't forget. the. sputnik moment trying to cram the policy the president used to be in selectively or said well will must all be all of those interesting things were stolen traits of turgeon yours that you very much irredeemably ukraine and crimea ukraine that's. getting back the many of you crazy nationalists in the west some stall in the me since the ukraine. great and more recently benson it's become a kind of a passionate identity that. has to be. international fact it's.

national rivalries and the situations. so we have people saying with some extent in the political situation after an election suddenly these relatively small numbers smashmouth quite well on that. very question become key players again because they are on the streets where people have to work when people are also not deplete dissolution but there will be a work demonstrate exactly who to demonstrate. and so we have a sense included his own let's. and now he's back playing with the oligarchs foreign funding in iraq from there and so on and all of that in the end is not actually going to really encourage him done memories ukraine. yeah the sad fact of the matter is is that people don't want to recognize particularly policymakers on the west that there is a. solution without a nation and ukraine that's why it doesn't work ok it's that his rhetoric is very

artificial he may have had his recent waning. government shut down a number of russian language television stations in this ridiculous language law where you know how when you're talking when you start talking with some you have to negotiate which language you're going to speak and if you don't you would properly place online which people many people think that some rights violation quite possibly is. how the russians looking at all this. because you know i was going through suggest everyone here to look at moon about bama yes wonderful article about how many times russia has been provocative with its military every year of this time of year they have exercises and of course the western media picks up and talks about it is being aggressive when it is this a routine thing but the russians are not fools in listening to what people are saying in the west and listening to what row ukrainian politicians are talking

about and everyone know who is or should know is that up to 14000 people were killed in that don ask your wheel legal change of power in 2014 so people in don bounce certainly are concerned go ahead oh well just in all that on the stand how russians view of this. i think we need to destroy a few myths which are continuously in the western media you know more of these 4 to 6000000 euro craniums where you in your brain know that indistinguishable cross i mean talking to a person from key. if i would have difficulty it tell you east. from moscow most of ukrainians speak russian better than war but your with historical accents you know sultan russians have fico x. on the most of the people even in ukraine so they are our people you know that's the perception of russians you know talking about great me a russian by the crimea i think historians so to morrow will remember their hands

over this you know crimea has been a part of russia legally since 1785 since the united states exists crimea was incorporated into russia by catherine the great you know the famous or infamous by john can be just spread out mediocre amy in a d.s.a. you know that's the this is the joke that the west must like to tease russians with well if you don't concede up i jump into villages russian then stop using that stupid joke they were ukrainian it would have the judge agree with me that it was great and after that sort of break you'll continue explaining about ukraine and russia after a break stay with. the

world is driven by shaped by. the dares thinks. we dare to ask.

problem drugs don't do is come from unscrupulous dealers but from pharmacies to in every state in the united states we see me very sharp increase in the number of people seeking treatment for addiction to prescription opioids and invented america under the banner of medicine persisted with the pain but instead of trying to wean him off though she did dose after dose after dose after dose and really became his drug dealer so who's to blame patients doctors manufacturers all the governments of . well the match across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this is the home edition and we're discussing ukraine.

ok let's go back to him in moscow you were explaining a number of myths that you wanted to dispel for whether or not go right ahead so i think historians of tomorrow there will be a renewed their hands over this issue or you know how come that suddenly the western media makes certain you sure saw them sort of inflamed you know they haven't been in plain for 1000 sometimes hundreds of years and now then please all the court has been a part of china for 4000 years suddenly you know we can't just allow it to be like the rest of china you know we need to do something great me and has been a part of russia since $70.85 and then you can be just as oh you know we lived with gray media russian for almost 300 years but we currently with no you know crazy media is ukrainian where i get to wage a war to prove that it is ukrainian so you know it's like the witch conti you know the which did not take place in the middle ages it's suddenly started you know that

60 to 70 in the same tree and this is him explicable to me i mean no when people have so much information when they have access to television computers they don't know understand certain things you know just like people in the 17th century of who are almost all literate suddenly started believing in witches you know this is in explicable and the same story with basically and with this did your occasional the situation in ukraine in the east of ukraine you know when people in it in the united states and europe say or you know ukraine wanted to leave russia and russia doesn't want to do it come on russia lead ukraine become an independent state in $1001.00 you want without a single shot you know he's asian no fair mind in ukraine who is yelland more stuff about the famine in ukraine the west of ukraine which in $1000.00 surge you during saddam's going to do as asian was part of poland and hungary and did not leave through as you know it is their problem russian separatists in the east. who lives

for the family. or their ancestors so all of these myths there are so deeply entrenched in western psych that it's very difficult for us russians do explain you know we know certain things we know. they see them but taken for granted by the west the narrative is completely different from create it and the problem is that in order to stay in the drop in the american media you have to feed the ideology you don't have to fit the facts and they continue distorting the facts and sometimes these distortions lead to real wars like the belief that saddam hussein was crazy and was trying to get weapons of mass destruction or that qaddafi was going to rape all of libya or you know this idea that somehow crimea just come clearly inside russia this is unbearable and has to be stopped and you meet the great russia who is well here a martyr and you want to bring i think one of the things as well saying it was

mentioned. early on a this group of russian kazakhstan as much as in your credit senator but many in congress and on his plane not. communism and not the ideal of the waste all that implemented it let's play russian and so we have. the whole succumbing to some or all would saying it's not your with was super super ammash. well i mean this is a this is about are going to be a suspect where you you term a religious argument you were into an ethnic program enough or some group of people is inherently but i will judge you the problem rather than what are some. very important one that's a triumph of western liberalism isn't there because i think it's very important what mark has just said because many russians make this the same mistake now and they take that ide you'll enjoy ultra liberal doesn't which is destroying the west itself no they take it for some kind o. an inmate quantity or anglo-saxon open. i think it's

a big mistake and people i quote her off and put in are not suffering from it they're who can afford dialogue and they don't understand why the dial cannot be stopped you know a lot of several interviews last week which are basically just desperate he just reminded people you know before my down in 2014 there were summit meetings between russia and the european union twice a year you know and they were cancelled by the european union so you know there is no add by anglo-saxon same to meant in the russian elite now just historically for the last 30 years but no i think the main thing for us russians is not to make the mistake which mark has just described as new size that ideology we have now in ok well it's going to switch gears here a marcum one way we can look at the timing of this is. this war of words

is a ratcheting up of rhetoric but it is the new administration in the united states and it's populated with very powerful people that were in the obama administration i'm thinking of. the secretaries they blink in of. victoria nuland is bad people are not. jay celebrant all of these people were there 1st of all they're all russert russia gaiters ok and one could say if you look at lincoln's senate confirmation hearings i mean in the he at you he presented a unfinished business of approach to syria and ukraine here is this a coincidence go ahead no i think i think that's right we don't know broadly unfortunately it's back to the future isn't it the west saying the same goal. supporting her on an insurrection against america which would lead very quickly to or government would make ukraine better that's what they thought would have are the

terms or action in syria would talk more assad and something better more. and i fear we will now see this also in other places and problem for me is from west mills is quite often it's true that a regime but the idea that our interventions that make battle shorey are lessons we experience yes we should be very cautious we should be like doctors and not trust will do no harm unless i'm willing to acknowledge our mistakes and we saw this one from and some of them met the chinese foreign minister. but that complete insensitivity to the fact that there are some criticisms of the west that have you heard that made by people who are not by any means muggle democrat. i mean this refusal to let somebody who you disagree with might know less have a point. is well let me. but wasn't that the precedent during the cold war i mean obviously it was a very intense ideological conflict i mean it couldn't have been clear but there

was mutual respect i mean there was even the great stephen cohen who recently passed away and said you know and we you know we try to put ourselves in their shoes to see how they saw the world that's not happening right now and i think it's interesting thing for me he switches over to diem or is that you know the cold war was an ideological conflict but there's another conflict now but only one side is ideological ema well i would say the united states no and unfortunately the european union do they they remind me and although they're. you know soviet union or the 7th us and atheists on the later soviet union which was not comfortable which was somehow more or less humane you know the united states and the you know remind me of all that good a soviet union which did believe in it's a goal which and which was dangerous for the hall because of these belief you know and these ability to can go on radio national you if it serves

my ideological interest that was very common for that and that is very common for the united states and for the you know i mean please note. you know if you look at the statements from the ukrainian nationalists if you look at their actions you know the west should be against them because they're real racists you know believe in their bad cross laws while russians are a mixture of tavares and feel you tribes you know the same with croatian fascists you know when they fought against the serbs but it's interesting that i do a widget sometimes allies itself do that was a war just nationalist so there was the ridiculous infant fights what it considers to be a big dangerous country because what is a big country like china or russia or you with lana you know all with. minority just incident or you have just contented neighbors or have on several squaws with these big country so it's amazing how ultra liberalism was in the united states and in the european union. how they condone any kind of radicalism any kind of

racist talk and you've only it comes elyse in fight in the big countries you know they're. muslim fundamentalists some of whom ford in syria you know the gradation fascists you know the ukrainian nationalists they will give basically a blank check from the united states you know the current actions so who are extremist nationalists in kiev just look at the pictures of what they did to is enhanced his office you know and you're minding a continuation on war in ukraine well they were basically given up by their prosecutor former prosecutor general said to whom i mentioned he said 3 years ago would have been cold any at their record against a ukrainian nationalist activist who will be considered an attack against the ukrainian state itself and so that was the police your brain you can root out you can call for hooch an hour a new russian influence that's

a lot but don't you dare to touch the so-called activists and the western media call them activists nope not see what is activists. insulation is art and sit ins are insofar as they recognize the simple report these things happen i think the real problems are all. action in ignorance some refusal to come up at 6 opens and allow any progress demonstrations and make you monumental troops who these people are never reported so in some places is a problem consider what are the west. look elected because they don't conform to it whether brussels but if whether from bulgaria to let you raise your hand the brooch was a mere open. there are days almost whatever the commission wants but you do what you are. alleging this is a great problem it's for the public for the public so the rest of america since the reporting of the extent they would know the stones. and if you mention them across

the org which is also it's russian propaganda we're not saying. whether stardust media i mean i guess if it was just propaganda goebbels like propaganda it would have no weight but i was aware and i just recently read in and you spent by i don't know if it's true or not i think it was in the new york times or in that bank accounts of radio free europe reach you don't it's broadcast on hungary you know. their orbits authoritarian government back to han interviews a member of the e.u. hungary's a manhole nato but only ideologically your against the mainstream radio free europe will be off to you in the community so it's really quite interesting is that i really like the ms analogy of the early soviet union because that was because it was all about a purity test and this is going it's gone down due to everything as a purity test and if you moralize your warrants always see meaning in your interlocutor doesn't agree with you about that by definition they're immoral i mean

this is what we have got down to used to be about geopolitics now it's about ideology gentlemen that's all that that we want to thank my guests here in moscow and i think our viewers know watching this year r.t. see you next term remember. so it seems wrong. but we're all just don't call. and you get to shape our disdain become educated and in gains from an equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look

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