time after a time when you're watching the $1000.00 episode of going underground which also for the on the eve of the 2 year anniversary of julius onj of wiki leaks being dragged out of political asylum at the ecuadorian embassy in london by police in part 2 will talk to an ecuadorian diplomat about the global significance of tomorrow's presidential runoff in that south american country but now as julian assad continues his detention without trial in london i'm joined from geneva by the united nations special report on torture niels melts a special thank you so much for coming back on i hope you're recovered from coronavirus for us to all but tomorrow marks 2 years since that president nixon metropolitan police dragged julian a songe out of the embassy in knightsbridge why do you think it was a key event in the so-called war on terror i'm not sure it's a key event in the war on terror i think it's a cheap event and what might be termed a core a war on on the press from press freedom. because joining us andre lee

stands for someone. defense the right of the public to have access to the truth and soon as you all know to richie leaks he published very sensitive information that governments try to keep secrets on you know providing evidence for war crimes and corruption and essentially what we see and feel are playing out in the 11th of april 2019 this kind of. a peak event in his persecution that had already lasted since 2010 and where. it peaked in mice is really the way he has been persecuted for a decade in the way he was expelled from the embassy but then he without any legal counsel reality legal primitive easy to process this asylum status was revoked just choose it. loria nationality was revoked because it was

a door in constitution does not allow extradition of actual dorian's to other countries and all of this was done without any due process and obviously with any you know an hour or 2 he was then brought to the police station and from there on works to a court where a criminal trial hearing had already been scheduled for him for so he and he was convicted within about 15 minutes for a alleged crime of bail isolations which was alleged to have committed 7 years earlier again without having any form of you know sufficient time to recover from the trauma and the shock of the morning's events and actually preparing properly his his criminal trial but these are just examples of very typical of the way jude in a sense rights have been tried to magically violated that in older restrictions throughout his past decade during these 1000 episodes we've covered torture in one time of 0

as they abu ghraib famously revealed by a base email hersh has been on this show why is it relevant to your remit as un's eyes were up with their own torture to the julian assads case history reasons 1st of all tuning a cent has exposed evidence for systematic state sponsored torture and this these crimes that she provided evidence for have never been prosecuted even after givens was published no one has ever been prosecuted for those acts of torture secondly do it in a sentence self has been exposed. to farias forms of cruel inhuman or degrading treatment that do amounts to psychological torture and not making this up examined him together with 2 specialized medical experts who have spent her life examining torture victims and both of them confirmed in. ended up each other but she showed

all the symptoms are typical of addict and. psychological portrait and so clearly i have to intervene on his behalf and ask for a cheese to take measures to protect she's human rights which has not happened despite my interventions and thirdly i have to intervene in this case because julia found just if extradited to the united states clearly will lot receive a fair trial and will experience close to conditions of detention very probably in a supermax prison under special administrative measures which clearly do amounts to torture and other real treatment again that's not just my personal opinion my treatise sessions would share that opinion in the same function and host of human and amused international another human rights organizations specialized in the area well british authorities including the police the government than united states authorities all deny any link to torture just remind us of what it was like when

you visited joining us anjan belmarsh prison in london while i visited him out but 4 weeks after he had been arrested on the 9th of may 2019 and he was obviously was under a lot of stress he already had that time physically blocking the good physical shape she had suffered through 6 years of isolation in india quit or an embassy but . he specially he has been exposed to relentless. threats scenarios of being extradited to the u.s. into a jurisdiction where he cannot expect to be treated according to the rule of law and we are he has to expect to disappear basically in a burial alive in some kind of a supermax prison for the rest of his life just treat remind everyone that he is being threatened which prison sentence of 175 years in prison for having expose. the truth about the crimes and corruptions of governments while no

one has ever been prosecuted or even sanctioned in a disciplinary fashion for the crimes of very serious crimes that have been exposed by what you. well i mean he has been named in parliament in the european parliament i know you have written a book in german which follows the case he's been raising the british parliament by jeremy corbyn has been raised by presidential candidate bernie sanders by by i.o.c. in congress why do you think that such little attention now paid to his case here in britain has disappeared from british media stories. well i think that the governments have really succeeded in spreading a narrative about him and by isolating him in belmarsh prison for the last 2 years and before that for several years and yet received with you know increasing isolation and. difficulties to communicate a public you have exceeded in spreading

a narrative that she cannot defend itself against about him being a narcissist a traitor or a hacker that basically it's his responsibility to president trump was elected that that that she is a rapist and. all of this despite the fact that there is no evidence really supporting any of those claims and but the governments have really managed to turn the spotlight around and i'm speaking of the spotlight at which unix has played it on then the governments and their misconduct you have taken that spotlight and turned it around and focused it on a sunday and have created a whole public discussion about a sunday while the son's case is not really about a sunday it's about the states and their misconduct and no one ever discusses that and so there we see how this crime drama at the treatment collusion between the mainstream media and. the governments how that works influence

public opinion in in many ways that the public is not even aware of. so rare are we had well we've had un special rapporteur has on this show they have often been criticised by british governments just a test tell us about how happy or unhappy with the responses of the british government whether under tereza may boris johnson the foreign secretary was terms of prime minister to your allegations about the torture of julian assad. well i mean that that's just you know a very shameful reactionary new britain has always been a state that was proud of its kind of legacy and it's a tradition in promoting human rights and i have to say frankly when i still work for the international committee direct process in war areas cooperating with the military forces underground there was was really a very fruitful cooperation and so i expected to get the said kind of cooperation

with the government now in my present un mandate but that's not the case at all i i intervened immediately after my visit to a sonder but the following day i intervened with that already and told them that it was very urgent for them to take measures to protect his health and to stress human rights and it took the bridge government 5 months to respond and in that response which was about half a page long beach just rejected all allegations and since then they refused to respond to any further communication and to engage in a dialogue and that's nothing personal concerning my person because stand under the same obesity with other special reporters whenever they criticise the government whenever they have philip alston on poverty. and i think it was a previous visit by spy a special operator on housing that i repeat i remember well

a couple of appears fact the working group an arbor detention which is also in the case of do it in a sense decide of a few years back in late 2000. 50 and that his his presence or his you know that scene ginny embassy. amounted to arbitrate a creation of liberty the british government gauged with that christie to expecting that it would go in its favor but as soon as it turned out not to be in its favor it just refused to implemented now it is striking the irony of a government like the british government accusing someone like our sons of wanting to abase justice yet due to the scientists basically they're facing justice or injustice and while the british government at the age trusts whenever the international system which is part of criticizes the british government we've seen similar developments with the e.u. write it that the government simply feels that it has some kind of

a sense of entitlement to violate international law without. accountability. well of course the british government denies any wrongdoing in all of this it was of course there were thousands that released papers from the hillary clinton campaign which showed the dirty tricks against bunny son there's lots of hillary clinton people now in the biden administration any different response to your arguments about julian assange from the biden administration not at all i mean i don't buy that mistrust is simply pursues a very similar path. as steve trying to ministration essentially which he continues to do to prosecute other how argument of 2 d.n.c. leaks. i think is is something that is worth just spending a moment on because i want to read that you actually have been the manipulative but have not been manipulated sunshield the russians that have been manipulated by

democratic party that's i mean that's evidence the hat and 40 other claims to are simply no evidence and this again is an example where we see how the public narrative is being turned around and xstrata lies to you know an extraordinary anybody so that the population will not look at the corruption that is actually being practiced in front of their nose at home. well i mean perhaps some british officials might say the legacy of all of this is being do legislate to allow some of the things that as andro veal to be illegal what what have you made of the overseas operations bill that's coming through involvement here that immunizes u.k. soldiers and also a bill to limit the rights of protest and to apparently permit murder and rape by the security services here in britain all this under the 4th johnson administration

well that's a piece of legislation that i have warned about i have to officially a protest against at risk the british government. clearly provides for impunity for international crimes crimes that people have you know been sentenced for in nuremberg and in tokyo there is simply no justification no conceivable justification for having a piece of legislation of leading prosecution for these types of crimes it means that the government wants to protect these types of perpetrators if the government claims that it has an issue with big stations claims well then it has to strike the proceedings where do you see claims can be proven to be big. but if you want to go in other parts of the world and you want to you know conduct invasion such as in iraq or bombardments in other countries well you have to face to music when you

come out it goes hand in hand with the other piece of legislation rich concern said authorization of domestic crimes by intelligence agents i think it's called i'm not mistaken to spy crops. it goes in the same direction but then permits intelligence agents to commit very serious crimes including you know torture and and and other serious crimes in the u.k. . and how can you possibly claim to be a democracy governed by the rule of law and authorized. special thank you in part 2 of this 1000 vision of going on the ground we speak together during diplomat instrumental in getting julian assange asylum in the ecuadorian embassy in london. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race. spearing dramatic development the only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy

will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. in the event misguided believed by many of us by locking down the whole society you can somehow protect all high risk people. on here stuff that wasn't the case it did not possess. the high risk pool of people in the us we are. now over half a 1000000 deaths mostly older people there was a complete failure to think about these last dance would actually protect all the high risk people.

welcome back to more on the south american country of ecuador may have a new president not so keen on alleged quid pro quos with washington over cia bases and torturing julian assange jailed here in london instrumental in the wiki leaks found his asylum application with ecuador and diplomats real nervous who joins me now from cambridge in england thank you so much warmer consul for coming on this 1000 per episode of going underground before we get on her presidential elections tomorrow just take us back to how you felt when you saw the pictures of the founder of wiki leaks being dragged out by metropolitan police from your embassy in london . well thank you the supreme leader to be here. shane completely ashamed all she called him and i was capable of opening to dos over the comedy commission to allow a shore in full to enter and get doc lee turney get. political refugee

that never happened he story and it was all. was so proud to be holding. political asylum is human right doing so many yes but as you know more and i'll be trained ecuador be tradeable to be traded mcclatchy i'm betrayed julian assange so i felt very ashamed 2 years ago because president were a no no no longer there in government lawyers here say it was entirely legal the president sent the metropolitan police into your embassy but you said that it it was redolent of a colonial mentality is of britain is trying to impress washington. oh yes yes for sure nothing legal about the dart there's a principle each human an international human rights which is no deval lucian principle you cannot give back to political refugees even death threats all the

sheen persist and ducks who are loaded with julian assange besides that julian east ecuadorian he became ecuadorian dony she's 7 year stay in the embassy and according to the annoying constitution not ecuadorian could be extradited anywhere so it was illegal and we know that there was a negotiations behind the scenes directly with the americans and with the british english to hand him over while scotland yard denies that it illegal or i mean you saw the police presence over the years the covert police presence as well outside the ecuadorian embassy in knightsbridge in london what did you think of the alleged disproportionality the number of police that it took to take truly understand out of the embassy and to of. what leslie moment remember and

british always alleged god is nothing to do with them that's only about swedish request for an interrogation trying investigation so to have such a huge surveillance over somebody who was not even charged of anything doing so many years is obviously contradictory 6. they need their special operation doing its weeks in advance of preparation in order to by surprise and to the embassy and good not to have such. why do you think media here in britain wasn't as interested it was a r.t. is a strong a station ruptly the corp the pictures of julian assange being dragged out of the embassy by police officers the b.b.c. even reuters of course the famous footage that the sandra leased by working leaks of reuters employees being gunned down in iraq why with the media and all those

interested well corporate media out were not keen on julian and really only leaks because while we could leaks and you know us and she did this not only do they expose the war crimes and the war criminals but today also define the media machinery behind it works the media will work in any way complete by not standing up to the law yes said by the government in order to go to war so julian defied him to learn the stove's the media as well that they're going to fight we don't take she confronted him does why they were knocking on julian and the issue is very very worrying that they don't see how dangerous these president east for journalists must unfold media as well in the future i understand that you as a former consul were then some it is it your understanding that marina made

a deal which entailed cia bugging of the embassy cia bases in ecuador and a $4200000000.00 i.m.f. loan to ecuador a kind of. torture money for a sandwich being called. well there in our house complying and she has been. she has even the united states everything they requested in julian's case they were requesting information from inside the embassy duck commands. the registrations. everything about julian assange communications long before julian was beaked and they went as far as to interview to interrogate. dorrian diplomats dogs don't bite

u.s. prosecutors in quito so i'm not surprised that anyone i know. and again julian assange heads to the united states not surprised at all. well whom are . bringers presidential career is over arguably tomorrow the power more papers in britain have little effect on david cameron even though members of his family were when named why do you think they're one of the candidates at tomorrow's election. he's an involvement in a bank or why are killed just tell me about give their more last go and why a quid dorian's you don't think will be voting for him tomorrow or the runoff election. well mr lassally is one of the reaches reaches people in an acquittal she has being trying to be comical in president for a very long time this is he's attempt she has she has. called government it will not in the last 4 years she has

a very true primary can. guy and. strictly speaking he shouldn't be able to run even in the election because equable long ago by referendum are proof that banning all those people who house of shore assets in order to they cannot run for public office or office and mr mr last or she has plenty of assets. tax herrmann's in the caribbean so. she insists their attempt i guess she is last one because she she is not a young person the keys help is quite damaged. thus the choice between the i want we will be i am convinced it will be the youngest president in

history only 36 years old brilliant economies and restaurants well if the coca-cola director a lot of fail to become president. tell me about this and reza you said he's brilliant will it will he. try his best to. make amends for ecuador's behavior over julian assange true as we heard in part one from the un special rapporteur the well being tortured here in london. well listen house is a new political block to where they were in politics she was there were sold dogs c.d.'s and revolution he was minister under rafael correa in several ministers. she is an economist she called consoler boss kids kid nation economic and i mean very progressive member of the international international progressive alliance.

and she is going to really take the path that rafael guerrero undersea to some revolution started for a while though 14 years ago you choose a part of a sovereign country which we'll have. respectful relationships with all over the world but it will astound up it was gunned up against the ruling of their more powerful countries in the world well we know what happens to countries that want to be sovereign or say they want to be sovereign we now have evidence that britain is colluding against evo morales in bolivia britain doesn't recognize manure of venezuela's election what do you think the united states and britain will do to andrés iraq as if he seeks a sovereign policy over the people of ecuador well i have very much hope they will respect the will of the democratic and we'll also talk with laurean

people and we very much think that they will respect. our constitution our democratic process and i are in the same way don that we do respect other countries do you think it's ironic that julian assad leaked so many papers about u.s. foreign policy the national endowment for democracy and so forth interference in latin american policies and in fact to more of the ecuadorian election has been influenced by leaks by wiki leaks as well because marino apparently with to some extent brought down by the demonstrations for julian assange in ecuador in 21 thing i think many many countries all know very much to weekly and to julian assange will expose seen. corruption basically from the power people. many many in many places in the world. in this it is ironic it is ironic

and. all the knowledge and growing sites we do action of julian assange and he was sorry and i know firsthand that giuliani's very very. concerned about what's happening in what she's 2nd country in ecuador and i'm sure that the new government of equal or we'll. take. the defense of. julia sanch steel prosecuted steel socially in full full political row persecution and steal and justly in jail and just finally what do you know about the condition of julian as anjan belmarsh prison in london hand in expectations from joe biden who's earth and nothing about dropping all the espionage charges against him well as much as you can suspect this

is a maximum security prison called you are in tamil where. very very good then your camino as. julian assange she's not serving any sentence there's no reason why she should remain increasing there is a risk of. fund and week in prison she is isolated most of the day 20 to 23 hours per day so she's no well she's definitely no not not well and. yeah the charges should be droll because even if you weans us extradition case in the last instance then julian assange she will be safe to move from the u.k. . u.k. decision we'll leave ali these jurisdictions if he goes out of the u.k. she will be in the in general the united states trying to get him again that's why

it's so important to john biden on the new u.s. administration finally on computer feed the charges which are basic usually against general former counsel thank you that's over this 1000 provisional going underground back home of the 60 years to the day russia has been the 1st human in space in history yuri gagarin keep in touch with a lot social media will see your mother. who are segregated to oracle high social class law school class people who are also in poverty of a 1st floor if you're born into a poor family if you're born into a minority family if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances people by the race to 15

years older born into generational poverty. look at the fight over. 3 day she to meet your needs and the needs of your family. the head of i saw was a u.s. prison informant 60 classified pentagon files reveal and quote sun like a bird to american interrogators exposing some of the terror groups most effective operators. the white house is run by anti european hoaxes on replacing nord stream to with more expensive american gas a member of germany's foreign affairs committee has told us see. a party of this is come to power in the us this will our great problem on the european continent this fits into biden's concern.