you 2 men rumble and here in moscow we're joined by dmitri bobbish he is a political analyst and editor and knows me internet media project hi gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's start out with george and budapest george you know ever since the the riots of january 6th have been there's been talk all the way from nancy pelosi all the way down to when this n.b.c. and c.n.n. and all that. wall street journal washington post on and on for a 911 style investigation here on the face of it i don't have a problem with that at all i mean i'm a fairly the d.o.j. is doing something they need more time that's all we find out ok but i really worry is this another is this in the extension to the russia gate hoax or this and and a completely new incarnation because given what we've seen over the last 5 years or what what i hope and trust you have that this isn't going to turn into a political witch hunt had george well of course we had no such quote or trust and

remember the 911 but i wasn't commissioner was it so what joe because the most important piece of information was actually withheld. the public mainly the role model of saudi arabia which was. fully about you know a little more than we did when he was less public but we still don't know the full extent of it so that's not exactly a goal of the i just meant we want to buy an 11 commission of what is rather sinister about this letter. 5 bottom the signatories all alone i. 2 wore of the ninety's all the nature of the united states invasion of iraq that subsequently made me as all of these are all people names that we're very familiar with you know we have people like james clapper ben rhodes you know everyone that you would think. our

friend i've example been man of ukraine gate. and if you read this letter on it what does it say it's a not really to find out why the policing was so wrong. let's go astray on the sex why did the police. to react initially why did they overreact. that's all they're interested in they want to get past the white supremacy white supremacy they use that word even though no evidence of any white supremacy involvement we want to get domestic terrorism domestic green. and then more sinister he they talk about. coordinate this information about things that they have to address and the nontransparent financing now is it will mean well what they want congress the boss laws to enable the government to just because people d.

platform and george i did this to kind of in the preamble to this is here that twitter and facebook have nothing to worry about ok there's vehicles of this misinformation im information just information here jima. george brought up the $911.00 report which actually it actually was the foundation of the patriot acts and then we knew will here and that was a power grab a power grab did they not me link it will it relinquished in this day so i guess the parallel is this $911.00 like investigation of january 6th is going to be a way to duplicate the patriot act just domestically and george mentioned seeking out white supremacists i think what they're saying subtext reading between the lines trumps supporters go ahead. well yes and it's typical for a new year to tell a theory and ideology to demonize bit enemy and not known just the obvious fact so

i think the most of all various absurdity of the 911 investigation was that 15 out of 1000 terrorists who committed this hideous their respect where a citizen so saudi arabia not all of them was an iraq yet none of them was a levy and none of them was in the rain yet but it was leaving iraq and possibly now iran these contests are targeted by the us in the frame for all that so-called war on terror a right of the same story here i'm in now we have these people now see gin in jail like this you know getting mad and you know basically. saying that they are so story of allah what happened to put these waves the means that they were true both you see the ban on russian agents you know they are not part of a jewish conspiracy or something but the state just doesn't want to or not which is

the obvious that not everyone is k.p. who lives in the actions of the government with the polish of the democratic party i mean right now the population is going to cough up 3 millions for this so-called infrastructure reform right so there is station in sight society and how do these general cease pointed their lead they say oh christopher a from the f.b.i. said it was not an isolated event you know there is a conspiracy behind it we have to go to the root so we do you know we have to uncover all these people and unfortunately the same story in europe westfield how many basically 6 months away from their election in germany is in september but already d.s.p. gl magazine published a huge investigate. how russia handle that my line and actors are pulling in judo influence these elections so it's the same picture everywhere it's

a demon brings up a great point here george it's seems to me again the way the russia gate hoax actually corralled the being the center of politics and progressives importantly and this isn't a repetition of the dollar ok i but i always saw in russia gate as a. an agenda to corral political forces to keep him in line and i think we seeing the same thing too for no $15.00 an hour per for workers ok no health care but white supremacy oh my god and that's how they keep their coalition together through fear and orange oh that's exactly right and let's remember what russia gate hoax was about they seized on some nonsense which is a few russians may have bought some ads facebook to make some money anybody can and they cooked up

a complete hoax that cheney himself did what got involved in the 2016 election in order to secure the election of donald trump no 2 evidence whatsoever for any of this was ever present it but it kept the hoax going and you know the moment that the mala reports came up we as a ukraine gate folks came in to offer a ship so you can see what's really going on and now we've got the john you're the 6 folks down in the you know they talk about violent extremism they know i'm not one gusen in that capitol hill or riot as they was arrested who had any instruments of violence everything that many guns no one has been arrested with a gun so that was a gate you have now created a hoax that there was a violent insurrection on january the 6th and then you can just keep it. this is going but it's a violent insurrection being fed by sinister people like donald trump then the government must go into action to crack down on it so that was the same thing with

russia gate well russia is everywhere they say it's trying to destroy a body politic strike to destroy our democracy so yeah that's why it is it is so important to maintain this folks and i mean that these are all people all the people signed this letter o. actively involved the russian gatos ukraine gatepost and i was the janitor the 6 you know. this it seems to me that the this is just purely a political agenda be president best the is the end in itself going going through the process of vetting people and and making it. legitimizing in normalising everyone has to be bedded in the military in the police and academia. basically it's a kind of a. transference of control that they had during does the endemic control over people's lives they want to institutionalize it and they want to pick

winners and losers of course the winners will be people that support this agenda anyone that resists obviously is a internal domestic enemy and that's how they're going to do it and it's a great way to control people. well i want to have people hold that thought on in the united states but they're all the walled that somehow the united states after this terrible action of welcome back to normalcy and all the people know it and that. joe biden is a centrist he's not the progress if is long right ico but we see that basically it doesn't matter who biden east because they're all much more powerful force and hoff and the 2nd reason is basically a already way you have the so-called centrist audience because. and more and more aggressive i mean look the wars in iraq and in yugoslavia were started by people in august who officially were not the extreme right the extreme left they were the

so-called moderates sat on the german social democrats for the boat sake went to war for the 1st time since 1405 in yugoslavia it's the same story here basically of their so-called american sat that has become so corrupt and so paranoid i mean any question of bog they lections which wearing d. and you know very very strange and the won't of people have questions any such question is now ole bolt s. a conspiracy theory you know we see how good washington pols ghost off the door horny you know if we just question you know questioning once we're in the long you know why why a big tech company as you know why don't you know they have actually why there are so many questions and all the identity on the people who vote on these o.t. judgement questions but what they're trying to do is to nip in the bottom any kind of just sad you know the next election is going to be out with these $11000000.00

immigrants but. those of them who want to hold for democrats will push our way gently through and don't you dad to resist if you're good to resist and that means your one of those people who acted on january the 6th that's the message i think you know if george that this is really another elaborate form of intimidation and it goes and to very basic a basic right of freedom of speech freedom of assembly and even freedom of worship i mean if you look at a lot of these blue states again they they they attacked religion ok last 40 seconds go to you for this part go ahead george it is examination because it will be it's a mechanism to be sure that people whose views we don't like will not be able to get a platform they will not be on the social media and when they knock they won't even be able. get a u.r.l. that won't even be on the internet it will just cease to exist and that's one way and that's why they won't be able to raise any money that's why they bring up this issue of financing you know we saw this in the case of some of these defendants the

media are actively ensuring that some of these are joining the 6 defendants. to get any money for their defense ok we're going to keep it all going on down here gentlemen we're going to in short break now when you have large number of we'll continue our discussion real estate. but the demick no certainly no borders just lying to nationalities. consumers the with the we don't look like the whole world needs to be. judged 2 as commentary this is

a sentence. we can do better we should. everyone is contributing each of our own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we're in it together. the world is driven by a dream shaped by one person those. military thinks. we dare to ask.

welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this is the home edition to remind you we're discussing some real news. this go back to here in moscow. you know on this program we're keeping a very close sign what's going on in the internal politics of what's going on in ukraine and how outside forces namely nato appears to be stoking. an aggressive stance and of course russia is reacting so as i said in my

introduction of a very simple question for both of you is nato trying to get russia and ukraine to go to war. well i think that the nato ones a small conflict which crane will more strike you move more strike you will then go on bus rebels themselves without russia getting in bolt bought a nato needs need some pretext will stop crying fall to start saying all russia got involved in this crisis you know it can't be that these rebels just defeated on their own there must be russian instructors there must be russian involvement well the problem is that if. this huge ration gets really serious we know from the georgian experience of each that nato will not compromise how you create so basically the ukraine is not interest him in

a real battle they understand that nato will not help now you know ultimately so. it was not of course russia will start that base confrontation because look for russia it's the least appropriate moment you know the fadal the north. been decided right now this isn't you would be a stray ssion in the united states we don't want a terrible start for it you know with a bomb or you know the table and or ministration so the only party that was interested was your creation because you know. basically mr selenski lost the local election here was his ratings were down he didn't get any calls from western leaders for months now you've got a call from biden he's got a call from boris johnson he talked to a young stoltenberg from maple stover back said the water stupidity is slake nato will not give you a lol your a privileged partner giorgio was also privileged bachmann 2008 so these are all

dangerous brew occasions whose aim is to put the blame on russia and this was discussed in russia and a lot of people said by the ukrainians prove all work in us you know the russian hawks and then you know my friend roxanne you should from understand who is already experienced john as you said yes the problem is that the west will quickly forget the provocation from the ukraine and fred went before god that it was saakashvili who started that christina just on the 7th of august 1st 2008 it was state esseily who bombarded seen violet only lead to russian question vote but you know the western public is just fed part of the story that's the usual tactic you know they got the beginning or they cut their hand you know they they feed the public the boss that is most 'd that is in the interest of all their ultra liberal ideology and they and they just forget about the rest it happens very rarely that we have

the articles like the one in the. demo you can spectator recently which basically reminded people that you know me called the president the american mess in the ukraine by william smith he just reminded people of the author of the american spectator then it was the us who helped the coup in. falls in 14 which actually just out of the whole the whole tragedy of that and that i think will mention for the 1st time i think in the in 7 years that it must be new and who basically a point of being you don't train your brain meanest been proposing for anyone that has watched this program over the years knows that we have runnable does and you're in tonight michael wanted been on the ground in georgia with me interesting dreamy as it is this is a gambit where the ukraine in the ukrainian so in ski is provoking a comment like that he knows he will lose militarily but hoping that he will get

political room warrants later as a pretty cavalier calculus would you agree it is very cavalier but it is a this is a remarkable phenomenon taking place which is you have. last week. france and germany dating thought in a video conference flow but they may have putin were very reasonable 1. they seem to be in agreement that there needs to be a deescalation then 1 france and germany issue a joint statement talk about a game deescalation or all sides they talk about violations of the cease fire on all sides rather a remarkable statement for france and germany to make then the americans go into action so we have blinken making phone calls to the french foreign minister. you have been making phone calls to heikal nasr germany and suddenly it's a very different it's all russia all russian provocation all russian aggression

russia's aggressive on the line of contact in the ukraine russia's aggressive in crimea russia's aggressive and ukraine's borders so now suddenly france and germany are scooped up within the sort of the american position so you have to think that the american goal all along is. that they don't really care about donetsk and lugansk but they do care about trying to get ukraine into nato this once they get ukraine into nato then basically russia's completely cut off from europe and i think that's the goal then or you don't get mean you're great it's very bad for you great if they lose the but the american goal is you know whichever way it goes ukraine you know ukraine's defeated find. now now there's no need they can be no further resistance to getting ukraine into nato and i think america is a play of a dangerous game have a set a state game but i think that that's what they like it because there's no calls at all on the part of the americans 1st for any sort of even handed approach of

a deescalation they need looking for this conflict if they didn't go you know again you know western audiences are not very well informed i mean there was a b. escalation process we had the normandy format we had the the men's one and 2 agreements were russian guarantor and it's very very simple and straight forward actually you can you can you can put it on one page so straight forward here and when there is a call to burn deescalation we didn't because this is an intra ukraine comp like me have to remind everybody ok when in ukraine. is it meaning the dom badasses we call it here on this program the proposal is this is to decentralize in ukraine where they can stay they can stay with within the borders of ukraine but in the united states particularly as adequately against it because it's a winner take all no compromise and this approach when it actually begs

a war to happen when you have a 0 sum approach go ahead well you are right you know for the country like ukraine otto which was basically in the title. of your own man yeah just you know 70 years ago and i. wasn't part of it has been a part of russia for stranger is you know. of course for such a country affair if ever it is is the solution everyone understands it but it was the united states and the nationalist ukrainian government supported by the united states that were adamant against federalism you know that their president who's. the president who was and basically ousted with help from the united states and the e.u. what was the name of his party because the name of your no college party aren't your region it's you know as was the idea that our ukraine consists of very different parts of the same people so it was only nature will have these decentralization but

i'm afraid it's not going to happen and to draw upon a very important subject we had a very irresponsible statement from jillian's in the ukraine and present this with you further i called all the way to solve the donbass problem is to make your brain a member of nato what does it mean if your brain becomes a member of nato as you once that russia occupies occupy us auto nato craney year you know. if georgia becomes a member of nato as it was promised in 2008 then russia or your part 4 is a positive that you have a cause bailey radii you know you have a legally clear situation where you nato must wage of war on russia this is a response simple this is the way these people conduct politics and yet again the stance you lost the trust of the people the people who voted for you 75 percent of

ukrainians voted for him in 2100 because they expected peace in gone bust better relations with russia normal relations with the west but you know what happened was there basically is against you continual poroshenko was always. just and morris what j.f.k. is doing right now is very much like trump you know it was not coincidental that he called trump he's teacher in that infamous conversation last year which almost cost trump his position you know look. at ski eason basically pursuing the same tactic he beats for the maximum way grain is a member of nato in this way he holds the trash no one seed because you know you know the computer that's such a terrible prospect of pressure will of course abandon the people and old boss and they can have you know ukrainian travel down and destroy all the time and stuff it

doesn't want that they you know castle they amnesty in which they never now and now most all of the people gone bust so basically this is the same tactic i asked mr trump and in general i mean if you look at the general trend what was it that biden and the west deed in the last few months but also different from trump their trade war with china continuous you know their country and asian with russia continuously even even on the great to ski well and you know you know everybody and getting it in time but you're right it's always been that there's bipartisan support for the worst things against george last minute to you one of my favorite things to say about ukraine and give you one minute to finish up she is that ukraine is and going east it isn't going west it's staying exactly where it is in this is what what people in nato capitals don't understand one minute you are that i think that would be the ideal i mean is that somehow ukraine would be able to actually makes that gather and live go exist with all these different parts of it unfortunately the

west or the united states alexander their own it's been the same agenda since $1009.00. out of europe once a role and to incorporate as much but it was only a unit within nato or as i can and the price of that may well be the last oh the eastern. well let's look outs and maybe. american dollars obviously not in ukraine's investment. and that's why i think they'd be all right less 2 by the by the americans but yeah i mean that i would i would be the end there. if there's a war it's like getting you know a 30. rigid ok ukraine one but the country will be broken down and i think that's it berry much good all right gentlemen that's all the time we're here i want to thank my guests and here in moscow and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are you see you next time remember.

this.

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