hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle there are calls for a 911 style investigation into the capitol hill riots of january 6th is this an effort to seek the truth or to fabricate another massive political hoax also does nato want russia and ukraine to go to war. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guests george samueli in budapest he's a pod caster at the gaggle which can be found on you tube and rumble and here in moscow we're joined by dmitri bobbish he is a political analyst and editor and knows me internet media project gentlemen cross

talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's start out with george and budapest george you know ever since the the riots of january 6th have been there's been talk all the way from the n.c. the all the way down to when this n.b.c. and c.n.n. and all that. wall street journal washington post on and on for a 911 style investigation here on the face of it i don't have a problem with that at all i mean barely the d.o.j. is doing something they need more time that's all we find out ok but i really worry is this another is this in the extension to the russia gate hoax or this ain't a completely new incarnation because given what we've seen over the last 5 years or what what no hope and trust you have that this isn't going to turn into a political witch hunt had george well of course we had no such quote or trust and remember the 911 but it wasn't commission or was it still what joe because the most

important piece of information was actually with el traum the public mainly the role model of saudi arabia which we still are fully about we know a little more than we did when he was less public but we still don't know the full extent of it so that's not exactly good but i just meant we want to buy an 11 commission of what is rather sinister about this letter. 5 about from the signatories all along. all of the ninety's all the nature and of the united states invasion of iraq that subsequently it. has all these are all people names that we're very familiar with you know we have people like james clapper ben rhodes you know everyone that you would think are friends of example binmen of ukraine gate. and if you read this letter on it what does it say if say not really to find out why the policing was so wrong. let's

go astray on the 6th why did the police. to react initially why did they overreact. that's all they're interested in they want to get at the white supremacy white supremacy they use that word even though no evidence of any white supremacy involvement we want to get domestic terrorism domestic agreements. and then 2 more sinister he they talk about. coordinate this information about what they have to address and the nontransparent financing not as it will mean well what they want but congress the boss laws to enable the government to just have people d. platforms and say you know george i did this to kind of in the preamble to this is here. at twitter and facebook nothing to worry about ok there's vehicles of this

misinformation im information just information here. george brought up the $911.00 report which actually it actually was the foundation of the patriot acts and then we knew will here and that was a power grab a power grab to dave not me link it will it relinquished in this day so i guess the parallel is this $911.00 like investigation of january 6th is going to be a way to duplicate the patriot act just domestically and george mentioned seeking out white supremacists i think what they're saying subtext reading between the lines trying supporters go ahead. well yes and it's typical for a new year to tell you terry and ideology to demonize bit a new me and not dog not just the obvious fact so i think the most of all various absurdity of the 911 investigation was that 15 out of 1000 terrorists who

committed this hideous their respect where a citizen so saudi arabia none of them was an iraq yet none of them was in libya and none of them was in the rain yet but it was leaving iraq and possibly now iran these contests are targeted by the us in the frame for all that so-called war on terror a right of the same story here i'm in now we have these people now siege in in jail like this you know getting mad and you know basically. saying that they are so sorry abolished what happened 'd to put these waves the means that they were true both you see the ban on russian agents you know they are not part of a jewish conspiracy or something but the state just doesn't want to or not which is the obvious that not everyone is k.p. who is the actions of the government with the polish of the democratic party i mean

right now the population is going to cough up 3 millions for this so-called infrastructure reform right so there is special insight society and how do these generals disappointed their lead they say oh christopher a from the f.b.i. said it was not an isolated event you know there is a conspiracy behind it we have to go to the root so we do you know we have to uncover all these people and unfortunately the same story in europe best deal how many basically 6 months away from their election in germany is in september but already d.s.p. gl magazine published a huge investigate. col russia and all that my wine and actors are pulling in do to influence these elections so it's the same picture everywhere. brings up a great point here georgie it's seems to me again the way the russia gate hoax

actually corralled the being the center of politics and progressives in portland glee and this isn't a repetition of the dollar ok i but i always saw in russia gate as a. an agenda to corral political forces to keep him in line and i think we seeing the same thing too for no $15.00 an hour per for workers ok no health care but white supremacy oh my god and that's how they keep their coalition together through fear and orange oh that's exactly right and let's remember what russia gate hoax was about they seized on some nonsense which is a few russians may have balls some ads facebook to make some money anybody can and they cooked up a complete hoax that putin himself did what it got involved in the 2016 election in order to secure the election of donald trump no 2 evidence whatsoever for any of

this was ever present it but it kept the hoax going and you know the moment that the mala reports came up with a ukraine gate hoax came into operation so you can see what's really going on and now we've got the january the 6th folks down in the us they talk about violent extremism they know i'm not one custom in that capitol hill or riot as they was arrested who had any instruments of violence everything that many guns no one has been arrested with a gun so that was a gate you have now created a hoax that there was a violent insurrection on january the 6th and then you can just keep it. this is going but it's a violent insurrection being fed by sinister people like donald trump then the government must go into action to crackdown on it so that was the same thing with russia gate well russia is everywhere they say it's trying to destroy

a body politic strike to destroy our democracy so yeah that's why it is it is so important to maintain this folks and i mean that these are all people all the people signed this letter o. actively involved the russian gatos ukraine gatos and i was to china to say. you know. this it seems to me that the this is just purely a political agenda be president best the is the end in itself going going through the process of vetting people and and making it. legitimizing in normalising everyone has to be bedded in the military in the police and academia. basically it's a kind of a. transference of control that they had during does the pandemic control over people's lives they want to institutionalize it and they want to pick winners and losers of course the winners will be people that support this agenda anyone that resists obviously is

a internal domestic enemy and that's how they're going to do it and it's a great way to control people. well i want to have people hold that thought on in the united states but they're all the walled that somehow the united states off to this terrible actionable come back to normalcy and all the people know it and that . joe biden is a centrist he's not the progress you have is long a right to go but we see that basically it doesn't matter who biden east because they're all much more powerful force and off and the 2nd reason is basically a already way you have the so-called centrist audience because. i mean more and more aggressive i mean look the wars in iraq and in yugoslavia were started by people in august who officially were not the extreme right the extreme left they were the so-called moderates sat on the german social democrats for the boat sake went to war for the 1st time since 1405 in yugoslavia the same story here

basically of their so-called american sat that has become so corrupt and so paranoid i mean any question of bob they lections which wearing didn't you know very very strange and they won't of people have questions any such question is now well a boat s. a conspiracy theory you know we see how the washington post ghost off the door horny you know if we just question you know questioning once we're in the long you know why why a big tech company as you know why don't you know they have actually why there are so many questions and all the identity all the people who vote in these oh i didn't questions but what they're trying to do is to nip in the bottom any kind of just sad you know the next election is going to be out with these $11000000.00 immigrants but. those of them who want to hold for democrats will push our way gently through and don't you dad to resist if you're good to resist and that means

your one of those people who acted on january the 6th that's the message i think you know if george that this is really another elaborate form of intimidation and it goes and to very basic a basic right of freedom of speech freedom of assembly and even freedom of worship i mean if you look at a lot of these blue states again they they they attacked religion ok last 40 seconds go to you for this part go ahead george it is it's imitation because it will be it's a mechanism to ensure that people whose views we don't like will not be able to get a platform they will not be on the social media and when they knock they won't even be able. get a u.r.l. they won't even be on the internet it will just cease to exist and that's one way and that's why they won't be able to raise any money that's why they bring up this issue of financing and you know we saw this when the case of some of these defendants the media are actively ensuring that some of these are joining the 6 defendants. 2 to get any money for their defense ok we're going to keep it all

going on down here gentlemen we're going to go to a short break now and have lots more break we'll continue our discussion real mistake or. so seems wrong but old rules just don't call. me. yet to see palin just become active. and in danger because the trail. went on to find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. because there's plenty of survival guide book stacie just like all the stars simply

all these are. the sure it's not going to get him back. oh heck no good says a repatriation team look at the rest in 70 years. philip a separate kaiser report. welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this is the home edition to remind you we're discussing some real news. this go back to here in moscow. you know on this program we're keeping a very close sign what's going on in the internal politics of what's going on in ukraine and how it side forces namely nato appears to be stoking. an aggressive stance and of course russia is reacting so as i said in my

introduction of a very simple question for both of you is nato trying to get russia and ukraine to go to war. well i think that the nato ones a small conflict which crane will more strike you move more strike you will then go on bus rebels themselves without russia getting in bolt bought a nato needs need some pretext will stop crying fault saying or russia got involved in this crisis you know it can't be that these rebels just defeated on their own there must be russian instructors there must be russian involvement well the problem is that if. if this huge ration gets really serious we know from the georgian experience of each that nato will not compromise how you create so basically the ukraine is not interest him in

a real battle they understand that nato will not help now you know ultimately so. it was not of course russia will start that base confrontation because look for russia it's the least appropriate moment you know the fadal the north. been decided right now this isn't new would be a stray ssion in the united states we don't want a terrible start for it you know with a bomb or you know the table and or ministration so the only party that was interested was your creation because you know. basically mr selenski lost the local election here was his ratings were down he didn't get any calls from western leaders for months now you've got a call from biden he's got a call from boris johnson he talked to young stoltenberg from april over back said the vote of stupidity is slake nato will not give you a lol your a privileged partner giorgio was also privileged bachmann befalls an aide so these

are all dangerous brew occasions whose aim is to put the blame on russia and this was discussed in russia and a lot of people said but ukraine is prove all the canucks you know the russian hawks and then you know my friend roxanne you should from understand who is already experienced john as you said yes the problem is that the west will quickly forget the provocation from the ukraine and fred went before god that is more saakashvili who started that christina just on the 7th of august 1st 2008 it was like a steely who bombarded seen violet only lead to russian question vote but you know the western public is just fed part of the story that's the usual tactic you know they got the beginning or they got there and you know they they feed the public the boss that is most 'd that is in the interest of all their ultra liberal ideology and they and they just forget about the rest it happens very rarely that we have the articles like the one in the. demo you can spectator recently which basically

reminded people that you know me called the president the american mess in the ukraine by william smith he just reminded people of the author of the american spectator then it was the u.s. who helped the coup in. falzon 14 which actually just out of the whole the whole tragedy bad and that i tickle mentioned for the 1st time i think in the in 7 years that it was dictorial knew and who basically a point of being ukrainian prime minister in proposing for anyone that has watched this program over the years knows that we have runnable does and you're in tonight michael wanted been on the ground in georgia with me interesting dreamy as it is this is a gambit where the ukraine and the ukrainian was all in ski is provoking a comment like that he knows he will lose militarily but hoping that he will get political room warrants later as

a pretty cavalier calculus would you agree it is very cavalier but it is a this is a remarkable phenomenon taking place which is you have. last week. france and germany dating thought in a video conference call with but they may have putin were very reasonable. they seem to be in agreement that there needs to be a deescalation then 1 france and germany issue a joint statement talk about a game deescalation or all sides they talk about violations of the cease fire on all sides either a remarkable statement for france and germany to make then the americans go into action so we have blinken making phone calls to the french foreign minister. you have been making phone calls to heikal nasr germany and suddenly it's a very different it's all russia all russian provocation all russian aggression

russia's aggressive on the line of contact in the ukraine russia's aggressive in crimea russia's aggressive and ukraine's borders so now suddenly france and germany . scooped up within the sort of the american position so you have to think that the american goal all along is. that they don't really care about donetsk and lugansk but they do care about trying to get ukraine into nato this once they get ukraine into nato then basically russia's completely cut off from europe and i think that's the goal they didn't get mean great it's very bad for you great if they lose the but the american goal is you know whichever way it goes ukraine you know ukraine's defeated find. now now there's no need they can be no further resistance to getting ukraine into nato and i think america is a play of a dangerous game have a set a state game but i think that that's what they like it because there's no calls at all on the part of the americans 1st for any sort of even handed approach of

a deescalation they need looking for this conflict if they didn't go you know again you know what western audiences are not very well informed i mean there was a b. escalation process we had the normandy format we had been in the men's one and 2 agreements were russian guarantor and it's very very simple and straightforward actually can you can it's like you can put it on one page so straightforward and when there is a call to burn deescalation we didn't because this is an intra ukraine comp like we have to remind everybody ok when in ukraine. is it meaning the dollar bonuses we call it here in this program the proposal is this is to decentralize in ukraine where they can stay they can stay with within the borders of ukraine but the united states particularly is adequately against it because it's a winner take all no compromise and this approach we it when it actually begs

a war to happen when you have a 0 sum approach go ahead while you are right you know for the country like ukraine otto which was basically on a tightrope for hanukah your own man yeah just you know 70 years ago and i. wasn't part of it has been a part of russia for same trees you know of course for such a country affair if ever it is is the solution everyone understands it but it was the united states and the nationalist ukrainian government supported by the united states that were adamant against federalism you know that their president who's. the president who was and basically ousted with help from the united states and the e.u. what was the name of his party because the name of your no college party argile rejects you know as was the idea that our ukraine consists of very different parts of the same people so it was only nature will have these decentralization but i'm afraid

it's not going to happen and to draw upon a very important subject we had a very irresponsible statement from jillian's in the ukraine and present this with you further i called all the way to solve the donbass problem is to make your brain a member of nato what does it mean if your brain becomes a member of nato as you once that russia occupies occupy us are to nato craney are you know. if georgia becomes a member of nato as it was promised in 2008 then russia or your part 4 is a positive that you have a cause bailey radii you know you have a legally clear situation where you nato must wage of war on russia this is a responsible this is the way these people conduct politics and yet again the stance you lost the trust of the people who people who voted for you 75 percent of

ukrainians voted for him in 2100 because they expected peace in gone bust better relations with russia normal relations with the west but you know what happened was there basically is against you continual poroshenko was always. just and morris what j.f.k. is doing right now is very much like trump you know it was not coincidental that he called trump he's teacher in that infamous conversation last year which almost cost trump his position you know look. at ski eason basically pursuing the same tactic he beats for the maximum way grain is a member of nato in this way he holds the trash no one seed because you know in order to prevent such a terrible prospect or pressure will of course abandon the people and old boss and they can have you know ukrainian travel down and destroy all their enemies that it doesn't own that they you know castle they amnesty in which they never now and now

most all of the people gone bust so basically this is the same tactic i asked mr trump and in general i mean if you look at the general trend what was it that biden and the west deed in the last few months but also different from trump then that trade war with china continues you know the country invasion with russia continuously even even on the great to ski well and you know you know everybody and letting in a time but you're right it's always been that there's bipartisan support for the worst things against george last minute to use one of my favorite things to say about ukraine and give you one minute to finish up she is that ukraine is and going east it isn't going west it's staying exactly where it is in this is what people in nato capitals don't understand one minute you are that i think that would be the ideal i mean is that somehow ukraine would be able to actually makes that gather and live go exist with all these different parts of it unfortunately the west of

the united states alexander their own it's been the same again since 1009. out of europe once a role and to incorporate as much but it was only a unit within nato or as i can and the price of that may well be the last oh the eastern. there are let's look outs and maybe you can bet that the american soldiers obviously not in ukraine's investment had better and that's why i think they'd be all right less late 2 by the by the americans but yeah i mean that of that would be the end here. if there is a war it's like getting you know a 30. rigid ok ukraine one but the country will be broken down and i think that's it berry much but not all right gentlemen that's all the time we want to make my guest and here in moscow and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are you see you next time remember.

but i can hold this edition you just because one of the last we've just been spoken about is. as you listen to this who do. you think it was national. petroleum approaching the plane to talk a little. it's a look it was difficult in. their capital support with one of these critics going up at least with getting a little because. she shing in the life of this new.

poll someone. because of the style if you will of the 2. the world is driven by a. person of those. no dares thinks. we dare to ask. today the industry prefers to spend millions of euros in you know being to do daily creations i will be sniffing all about making money making profits in some of the

corporations international markets import export do you imagine the number of printing diseases that are out in every community today it is not due to new viruses or all new microbes that is not true so it is due to environment. not going to say you know that moment all discipline of this sort of muscles of really just accumulate could only come in the day you seemed to be in the list that . the plague will see the sky if the so food industry is successful it will create more jobs it will create more value added it will create more growth so i don't see why we shouldn't also fight for the interest something into street products at that we have regulation we want regulation i was in the industry and if we don't behave any aspinall to just fine. thanks.

the negotiations for the. country also approved. the move. on the program we hear from. you.