coming on the show last week we heard denials from one we owe from the center for china and globalization about genocide in asia and john how many millions of week a minority people are detained currently more than 70000000 lawyers are detained in the concentration camps and the when you speak to every single leader in diaspora they have one or more family members are taken my husband's entire family is taken from the south and part where most of the oilers are leaving my parents in-laws my story sister in laws their husbands and my brother in law and his wife and 14 of my husband's nieces and nephews 24 family members from entire family that are missing and my own sister is missing since september 28th and she was taken

clearly as a retaliation for my advocacy work here in america i spoke at the one of the think tanks here in washington d.c. the hudson institute on september 5th 26 days later my sister and my aunt both were abducted from 2 different cities as a retaliation for my. exercising my freedom of speech in america as an american citizen so this is happening to every single we christian they asked for so there is more than stream 1000000 people are taken into the concentration camps today arguably the hudson institute argues for regime change or all around the world but you said 3000000 what is the population of shin jang because it's 12000000 which the b.b.c. number is yes that means a quarter of all we weren't currently in detention how how much would that cost the chinese government let alone what human rights abuses that would constitute. it's

often when you look at the consensus from the chinese government they say 12000000 oysters but according to order a consensus more than 20000000 oil is a population to her the numbers are 25000000 so there's been a massive increase in the number of wigglers since 2000 when there were only 8400000 it point 4000000 is also there is the consensus that's the numbers from the chinese population and chinese government in reality back in 2004 even though it or population was 25000000 more than 25000000 now are we were intellectuals their own consensus is like 5 years ago back in 2016 there was more than 20000000 only this is a population when the chinese government was saying it's only 11000000 ok but i mean as far as things stand here and selling is a quarter of all we get are now in chinese detention why do you think it is that

when journalists were allowed indigent jang in order to 2019 they came from all over the world. they didn't find any evidence of genocide or the mass detentions in nov 29th in the world bank was it found no aberrations as regards human rights of the load genocide. if you remember at during the holocaust if you have seen the pictures and the films how the nazi germany put up a show for the red cross people coming in and checking the same thing the chinese government is putting up the stages basically bringing like the actors and the people who are being coached to say what they have to say and the jumping around and dancing when you look at it in outdoor interests are facing forced marriages

where governments are forced to marry a contact these men if they refuse they are being called extremist for refusing and then there were women there facing mass rape men the dory birth control forced sterilizations poor brainwashing forced labor organ harvesting criminal tortillas are being built next to the concentration camps for a culture doesn't practice cremation we are muslims we don't practice criminal creamy asian so this is all building up to a genocide clearly there are lot about journalists out there so you're saying all those journalists they don't know what was really going on you of course. worked at guantanamo bay prison camp the u.s. torture camp and you're saying it's worse actually the conditions engine jang than when you were working defacto for the u.s. government facilitating the torture in guantanamo. that was not my words the situation back in the history because can we call it she john is that name

given to us by the chinese regime that their situation back home not in the concentration camps but just regular people like me and the year their lives are worse than how the detainees in guantanamo bay that was the words from the former wiggler 100 were detainee's the waivers 21 of the not 22 orders so i worked in guantanamo as an translator i was translating for those people who wore military uniform in guantanamo while the term i was wearing or not yes i was just a contract at linguist but at the beginning all the civilians were wearing uniforms and the our name cackle contractor i have the pictures calling contractors here i was not in the military but i am still happy that i was be able to give linguistic support to those 22 innocent or groups where i as sister them because they were off

the accused because of the situation back home they escaped from the persecution they didn't have any sympathy with al qaeda they didn't have any sympathy with al qaeda or the $911.00 attacks there we go there and want out so those $22.00 or you girders they have nothing to do is $911.00 they have nothing to do is to arrest these all good men were in desperate need of language support and i was even requested by those men to translate for their defense to hence i help and the i advocate them on their release the chinese government is the one who are accusing them for being terrorists you see when we no longer is and will is when you invoke the holocaust obviously when it comes to invoking genocide. these kinds of human rights abuses this is exactly ward the united states have done to justify wars in

libya afghanistan syria iraq across latin america i know you've been asked before about this why did you take funding from the national endowment for democracy knowing the brutality and the 10s of millions killed wounded tortured or displaced at the hands of national endowment for democracy policies around the world well we established campaign for a course in the fall of 2017 in order to advocate for this nests of on president that human rights atrocity in the world after the holocaust we found campaign for it was 2017 my sister was abducted and september 28th when i quit my full time job as an international business development director from the consulting firm that i was working and i became full time activist one year and

were 3 of my sisters at the actually funded by the national endowment for democracy i really started funding from october 2090 i don't mean to wiggle funding from the national and on our democracy to upsala not absolutely not i to look at look at records i was going full time job and i was funding myself the organization giving us the ability to be the voice for those millions of whistler's people those and millions of people who are suffering so that's all i could hear and i know so many of these people who are accusing me of being and working for cia only getting money from anybody those are the genocide apologists those are the exact same words. chinese our foreign minister is saying actually and c.c.p. is a more for us folks 1st and lydia and joe now about a year ago she tweeted publicly using exact same those words she tried to

demonize me and create it might work ok with alice i guess doesn't come in the congress party of china i mean i have to ask did i mean were you linked or are you linked to the cia no absolutely not because it says on your bio my says on your biography page as a consulting that you have experience working with various u.s. intelligence agencies which u.s. intelligence agencies have you worked with it i don't think it says intelligence agency it does says if those in the streets extend pasha's also extensive experience working with homeland security department of defense the pentagon yet and various u.s. intelligence agencies which you as a dotard agencies did you work with when i was working at the leo at the architectural firm our company designed f.b.i.

headquarters. so that's my business development work and i work this argument of defense state department homeland security under who leasing out those 22 oil groups from guantanamo i was working with them and advocating for those 22 years when you were working for the military contract to hell 3. i think under titan consulting which was involved in the abu ghraib torture scandal this was all just as a translator you weren't carrying out the cork available tortured there would be and then they would say their piece and you would translate their work i mean the problem. for all the agencies you name it in guantanamo because they were interrogating those 22 orders i was translating i was working as a contractor for l.c.d. as a translator i was working wherever you know the type and it became or else and i was

working as a translator i was hired as a consultant i mean i was hired as the ad linguist consultant translator and being and basically language support for those 22 years larry wilkerson who is the chief of staff of colin powell has been on this program and he says the route to regime change in china because the u.s. has 400 bases in circling china right now military bases is through jand jan do you see why members of your family you said it was retaliation for your advocacy work do you see why your sister might be detained or might choose not to speak to you given your links to the u.s. military industrial complex my sister has 2 daughters the post others live in united states and. my sister is a retired medical doctor. this is. ok let me.

let me just go back to this is that i am speechless because of those kind of accusations i am absolutely speechless so when i raised my sister's case in the december 2000 when i have been speaking very vocally since my sister's of the action in the september 28th i have been being very vocal i have been raising my sister's case december 2019 the chinese state media the global crimes network accuse me of carrying a stole the photo of others and making up my own sister and attack our organization you can look this up i consent to go link but later my sister's true daughters who both are living in united states they learned that their mother has been given the harsh prison sentence in march 2099 months before the

chinese state media published libelling against. and against our organization so is that kind of claiming that you know they are trying to say my sister didn't want to talk to me or redeem changing this and that those are all a kind of you know like apostrophe attacks to this created in my work and the humanizing me so i guess my messaging has been clear about this genocide i am not only talking about the sister in law my sister is in the concentration camp but i'm cocky which is the precepts of leaked documents the chinese government there's 3 sets of documents stating he is calm it's genocidal action we hope you find your sister soon go through and obviously the chinese government

denies genocide in any way in june jack richard about thank you after the break with george floyd trial and what's really at stake. what the pandemic no certainly no borders are just blind to nationalities. is are we dealing with the we don't look like. the. judge you know commentary this is a dissident and. we can do better we should be. everyone is contributing it's your own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever but it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together.

welcome back today while u.s. military forces continue to flex u.s. taxpayer dollars all around the world u.s. politicians return to the senate and the u.s. conversation turns ugly in would is the u.s. a de facto apartheid state some are asking is t.v. channels brokaw's live proceedings in the prosecution of the alleged police killer of george floyd joining me from new jersey's one of america's most influential conservative think is recalling professor jurisprudence at princeton university professor robert p. george thank you so much for coming on in the world is watching this trial how

have you seen the reaction to perceived decline in the united states over many years of law and of ethics well i think one thing that hasn't declined is this most americans of most races want. mr sheldon to receive a fair trial if he's guilty of murder they want to be convicted of murder if he's guilty of a lesser offense of manslaughter offense they want to see him convicted of that if he's not guilty they want to see him quit so i just hope that the will of most americans again of all races all ethnic backgrounds and so forth will prevail in this matter when we get a verdict now aside from the trial corporations and government institutions and police forces have been keen certainly here in britain and i know in the united states to to have courses on bias training compulsory these courses on race on gender you don't think that's the solution to that kind of atrocities we've

seen in recent years in the united states i don't there is not going to be evidence that they work toward achieving the goals that stance oblique they are there to achieve moreover i am a very big worry on civil libertarians. rounds about such courses turning into reeducation camps becoming forms of indoctrination when only one point of view is presented on matters on which reasonable people of goodwill disagree and there are many matters pertaining to race to policing into violence on which reasonable people of good will disagree want a single point of view is the only one allowed and when it's mandatory that this point of view be tarred that looks to me like indoctrination i don't like it in classrooms i want to engage in it myself in my classrooms i object when other professors doing gaijin it or when universities allow it to happen on their campuses there should be a debate in which people are able to air and engage different points of view and try to persuade each other using the currency of proper intellectual discourse

reasons evidence and arguments but away from the more sinister elements of these bias training courses here there's something deeper here about people's conception of what it is to be human that you can be taught her live in a course you know killing an innocent person not good. that kind of back out of training i see what you're getting at here and you're right that. these issues the issues that are at stake in the matters we're debating today go very deep down they touch on what it means to be a human being what what scholars give the fancy label to philosophical anthropology it's critically important that the conversation be a free and open conversation that we not impose points of view that we not mandate a particular point of view or give a particular point of view monopoly would you go to far as i say legislating

against prejudice that is saying against things like this which are part of the debate in the united states that that's not the route. it has anything else. i think there's a place for traditional anti discrimination legislation such as the civil rights act of 1964 here in the united states but there is not a place for indoctrination everyone should be opposed to racism because racism is simply contrary to the basic principle of the profound inherent and equal dignity of each and every member of the human family that's at the core of our legal and political system our moral order here in the united states it's at the core of yours in the u.k. the trouble is on the concrete meaning and application of that principle we're reasonable people of good will to disagree and we mustn't let one side tyrannized one side get control and impose on the other side we need

a proper debate in which we can all bring our arguments to the public forum and try to persuade our fellow citizens sometimes we'll win sometimes we'll lose but there are no permanent wins and losses because in the democratic form in democratic societies you can always come back and say look it's not working we made a mistake we need to revise the law we need to reconsider let's go back and have this conversation again but when you go to say corporate greed you believe in regulation why don't you think regulation works in the same way when it comes to believe. is that a press other minorities or all majority in different countries well of course we run into the problem of reasonable people disagreeing about what constitutes oppression or what constitutes a microaggression or in fact what's right or wrong we have fundamental disagreements even about what makes people male and female today that's not a disagreement we used to have it's

a disagreement that we have today and trying to shut down one side is just a kind of tyranny it's contrary to the basic principles of civil liberty that our societies at their best. and for i'm not blaming you but you know soley for the. well you're doing i am well i did not call us caught at cornell as was on the show recently he's been denied appointment that i understand it in the united states there is there are numerous examples of people being denied places in the academy because of their views and their writings in this colony were. why why have you saved them why why this of speaking out to save people on the grounds of freedom of scholarly ideas and thought. well i haven't singlehandedly saved anybody i've been involved in some defenses of people that have saved a few and i'm proud of i'm proud of that not enough though too many people are

cancelled too many people are discriminated against they're denied on entirely on reasonable grounds grounds of belief grounds of religion grounds of politics positions that they are otherwise entirely qualified for i'm not a victim myself despite the fact that i am a conservative i'm a christian religious believer a catholic i have had a blessed life in the academy i'm not a victim but other people are the late roger scruton was a victim on both sides of the atlantic because of his conservative views he was denied academic positions that he should have had and if it can happen to a person at the top of his intellectual game like roger scruton someone that any philosophy department anywhere in the world should have been proud to have then it can happen to just about anybody up and down the line in academia and internet so what am i doing i've participated in forming a new organization to fight back it's called the academic freedom of lions and i would encourage people just go to our website w.w.w.

academic freedom to. go to the academic freedom website and you'll see how 200 of us including cornell west across the ideological spectrum from conservatives like me to progressives like. are banding together to fight back against cancer culture against the prejudice that people are experiencing in academia when they apply for jobs or nor denied those opportunities because of their beliefs well i should say scruton came on this show regularly before his death and it was quite quite a debate i'll tell you but. i have a deeper level why this kind of culture is the reason in the 1st place can you understand that as the crimes of soviet communism came to light the so-called left would retreat into identity politics and see this kind of weaponization of the academy and position in the academy as their only route to

whatever society they want rather than class war which was previously the main engine of progress. well it's a long and complicated story and i'm not at all sure that i understand it well certainly classical marxism proved to be a failure a lot of people bought a lot of academics bought into it they had a theory for a while about the false consciousness of the workers and so forth and so a kind of revisionism revisionist marxism settled in on the left early on you see it in the in the in the work of important figures like antonio groundsheet or theodora during next war crime or have a poor or it quarrel disagreement with some of my conservative friends about this one lots of conservatives think that the fundamental problem that leads to identity tarion ism and to cancel culture and to this tyrannical attitude that so many people have embraced on the left today they think that it has to do specifically with progressive or left wing idiology that it's that it's

a progressive problem or a left problem i'm inclined to think it a bit of heretic on my own side here i mean kind of thing it's a human nature problem when people see that their point people like their point of view prevail that we naturally rabb our emotions more or less tightly around our convictions and that can lead when it gets too tight to a kind of dogmatism that's human nature it's true for conservatives it's true for liberals it's true for religious folk it's true for secularists that's just the way human nature is and then when we see the prospect of getting a monopoly for our view of cancelling out competing views we're so deeply emotionally invested in our own opinions loving them even above truth that we often succumb to the temptation to just read other people freeze other people get hold of that monopoly and keep it it's happening on the left now because they've got cultural power if the well and now are the same thing probably would be happening as a i mean. if the left some of the left might not want to say faith is another the right

thing. to a benign than what we arguably one. if you have to have this discussion violent i want to be american you have a legit argument about that it's not been a header. or whether the american revolution the federally promised bay you're the madison here you are you're in the bateson program i think there's a fair deal of violence in the american revolution i just we will have to have you on again to discuss that in more detail but i go to the you tweeted about chomsky and you share his belief in freedom of speech he's being mean on this show as well but why is it you can share is a belief that there is also a manufacturer of consent that is much more to tell a tarion and widespread in the united states and has been going on fall of long before this so-called council culture there's tremendous social mobility in the united states or has been historically we've had our injustices but our ideals are

good and we can read the whole of american history is a history of injustice in oppression if we like but that's not an accurate reading it's much more accurate to understand our history as a struggle against oppression against the practices we've too often embraced but that are contrary to our own 1st principles and above all the principle of profound inherit an equal dignity of egypt remember the human family principle that in our declaration is articulated as the self-evident truth that all men are created equal endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights i'm not i'm a beneficiary of that i'm the 1st in my family to go to college that kind of social mobility reflects the best in america and it's very widespread if i look at my academic colleagues here at princeton people at the top of their game these are not in on the whole people who came from wealthy families many members of our faculty are jewish some are christian increasingly muslim all making it at the top and in

academia and we find the same thing if we look at corporations law firms professional other professional organizations and. and so forth so let me tell you something i love this country i love its principles i love what we've achieved i love the struggle that we've engaged in to overcome injustices beginning with slavery and the injustices toward the native american indian tribes fighting back against jim crow i love the vision of martin luther king the universal brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of god that's my america and i want that america to survive and thrive and get better and better. thank you. will 22 years. of refugees in yugoslavia. children in.

the. 100. 15 it was. difficult. because. she. told you.

the right to. agreement with russia. to approve it. use. thankful and grateful. that we are able to buy. also ahead on the program fists flying white lives muster rally in california is met by b.l.m. country of protesters number of arrests.