so it is due to environment. not going to say you know that moment of disability or that sort of muscles are really sick you really could only come in to see them to be. deployed to see the sky if the so food industry is successful it will create more jobs it will create more value added it will create more growth so i don't see why we shouldn't also fight for the interest something in history not accept that we have regulation we want regulation i was industry and if we don't behave then yes penalty that's fine. shallow and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle

there are calls for a 911 style investigation into the capitol hill riots of january 6th is this an effort to seek the truth or to fabricate another massive political hoax also does nato want russia and ukraine to go to war. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guests george samueli in budapest he's a pod caster at the gaggle which can be found on you tube and rumble and here in moscow we're joined by dmitri bobbish he is a political analyst and editor and knows me internet media project hi gentlemen crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's start out with george and budapest george you know ever since the the riots of january 6th have been there's been talk all the way from the n.c.p. mostly all the way down to when this n.b.c. and c.n.n.

and all that. wall street journal washington post on and on for a 911 style investigation here on the face of it i don't have a problem with that at all i mean about barely the d.o.j. is doing something they need more time that's all we find out ok but i really worry is this another is this in the extension to the russia gate hoax or this and a completely new incarnation because given what we've seen over the last 5 years or what what hope and trust you have that this isn't going to turn into a political witch hunt had george well of course we had no such quote or trust and remember the 911 but it wasn't commission or was it so because the most important piece of information was actually with el traum the public mainly the role model of saudi arabia which we still are fully about you know a little more than we did when he was less public but we still don't know the full extent of it so that's not exactly

a good good just meant we want to buy an 11 commission or what is rather sinister about this letter. 5 about the bottom of the signatories all along. all of the ninety's all the nature and of the united states invasion of iraq that subsequently maybe it's all these are all people names that we're very familiar with you know we have people like james clapper ben rhodes you know everyone that you would think of as they are a friend of example been man of ukraine gate. and if you read this letter on it what does it say it's a not really to find out why the policing was so wrong. let's go astray on the 6th why did the police. to react initially why did they overreact subsequently . that's all they're interested in they want to get at the white supremacy white

supremacy they use that right even though no evidence of any white supremacy involvement we want to get domestic terrorism domestic greener. and then more sinister he they talk about. coordinate this information about what they have to address and the nontransparent financing now what does it all mean well what they want congress the boss laws to enable the government to just catch people deep platforms and say you know george i did this to kind of in the preamble to this is here to twitter and facebook and nothing to worry about ok there's vehicles of this misinformation im information just information here. george brought up the $911.00 report which actually it actually was the foundation of the patriot acts and then we knew will here and that was a power grab

a power grab to dave not me link it will it relinquished in this day so i guess the parallel is this $911.00 like investigation of january 6th is going to be a way to duplicate the patriot act just domestically and george mentioned seeking out white supremacists i think what they're saying subtext reading between the lines trying to supporters go ahead. well yes and it's typical for a new year to tell a theory and ideology to demonize bit enemy and not known just the obvious fact so i think the most of all various absurdity on the $911.00 investigation was that 15 out of 1000 terrorists who committed this hideous terrorist act where a citizen so saudi arabia none of them was an iraq yet none of them was a libyan none of them was in the rain yet but it was leaving iraq and

possibly now iran these contests are targeted by the us in the frame for all that so-called war on terror a right of the same story here i'm in now we have these people now see gin in jail like this you know getting mad and you know basically. saying that they are so story of allah what happened to put these waves the means that they were through both you see the ban on russian agents you know they are not part of a jewish conspiracy or something but the state just doesn't want to or not which is the obvious that not everyone is k.p. who lives in the actions of the government with the poorest of the democratic i mean right now the population is going to cough up premiums for the so called infrastructure reform right so there is special insight society and how do these generals disappointed their lead they say oh christopher a from the f.b.i.

said it was not an isolated event you know there is a conspiracy behind it we have to go to the root so we do you know we have to uncover all these people and unfortunately the same story in europe westfield how many basically 6 months away from their election in germany is in september but already d.s.p. gl magazine published a huge investigate. don't call russia hand out that my line and act as a police union do to influence these elections so it's the same picture everywhere it's a demon brings up a great point here georgie it's seems to me again the way the russia gate hoax actually corralled the being the center of politics and progressives importantly and this isn't a repetition of the dollar ok i i always saw in russia gate as a. an agenda to corral political forces to keep

him in line and i think we seeing the same thing too for no $15.00 an hour per for workers ok no health care but white supremacy oh my god and that's how they keep their coalition together through fear and orange oh that's exactly right and let's remember what russia gate hoax was about they seized on some nonsense which is a few russians may have bought some ads facebook to make some money anybody can and they cooked up a complete hoax that cheney himself did what got involved in the 2016 election in order to secure the election of donald trump no 2 evidence whatsoever for any of this was ever present it but it kept the hoax going and you know the moment that the mala reports came up with a ukraine gate hoax came into operation so you can see what's really going on and

now we've got the john you're the 6 folks down in you know they talk about violent extremism they know i'm not one cus i'm in that capitol hill or riot as they was arrested who had any instruments of violence everything that many guns no one has been arrested with a gun so that was a gate you have now created a hoax that there was a violent insurrection on january the 6th and then you can just keep it. it's going but it's a violent insurrection being fed by sinister people like donald trump then the government must go into action to crack down on it so that was the same thing with russia gate well russia is everywhere they say it's trying to destroy a body politic strike to destroy our democracy so yeah that's why it is it is so important to maintain this folks and i mean that these are all people all the people signed this letter o. actively involved the russian gay folks ukraine gay folks and house to china to say . you know. this it seems to me that the this is just purely

a political agenda be president best the is the end in itself going going through the process of vetting people and and making it. legitimizing in normalising everyone has to be bedded in the military in the police and academia. basically it's a kind of a. transference of control that they had during this pandemic of control over people's lives they want to institutionalize it and they want to pick winners and losers of course the winners will be people that support this agenda anyone that resists obviously is a internal domestic enemy and that's how they're going to do it and it's a great way to control people. well i want to have people hold on in the united states but they're all the walled that somehow the united states after this terrible action will come back to normalcy and all the people know it and that. joe

biden is a centrist he's not the progress if is long a radical but we see that basically it doesn't matter who biden east because they're all much more powerful force and off and the 2nd reason is basically a already way you have the so-called centrist audience because. and more and more aggressive i mean look the wars in iraq and in yugoslavia were started by people in august who officially were not the extreme right the extreme left they were the so-called moderates sat on the german social democrats for the boat sake went to war for the 1st time since 1405 in yugoslavia it's the same story here basically of their so-called american sat that has become so corrupt and so paranoid i mean any question of bog they lection switch wiring didn't you know very very strange and

the won't of people have questions any such question is now well a boat s. a conspiracy theory you know we see how the washington post ghost off the door horny you know if we just question you know questioning once we're in the long you know why why a big tech company as you know why don't you know they have actually why are there so many questions and all the identity on the people who vote on these oh i didn't questions but what they're trying to do is to nip in the bottom any kind of just sad you know the next election is going to be found with these $11000000.00 immigrants but. those of them who want to hold for democrats will push our way gently through and don't you dad to resist if you're good to resist and that means your one of those people who acted on january the 6th that's the message i think you know if george that this is really another elaborate form of intimidation and it goes and to very basic a basic right of freedom of speech freedom of assembly and even freedom of worship

i mean if you look at a lot of these blue states again they they they attacked religion ok last 40 seconds go to you for this part go ahead george it is exhibit a because it will be it's a mechanism to be sure that people whose views we don't like will not be able to get a platform they will not be on the social media and when they knock they won't even be able. get a u.r.l. that won't even be on the internet it would just cease to exist and that's one way and that's why they won't be able to raise any money that's why they bring up this issue of financing you know we saw this when the case of some of these defendants the media are actively ensuring that some of these are joining the 6 defendants. to get any money for their defense ok we're going to keep it all going on down here gentlemen we're going to in short break now enough we'll continue our discussion real estate.

was a pandemic no certainly no borders and dislodging to nationalities. the summary we told them was a really we don't look like see the whole world needs to be easy to. judge a. commentary crisis with the sentencing law. we can do better we should know. everyone is contributing to each of our own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in need together.

is you'll be a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation community. are you going the right way or are you being. direct. what is true. is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the death. or remake of the shallows. welcome back to crosstalk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this is

the home edition to remind you we're discussing some real news. we're going to go back to here in moscow d.m.o. you know on this program we're keeping a very close sign what's going on in the internal politics of what's going on in ukraine and how outside forces namely nato appears to be stoking. an aggressive stance and of course russia is reacting so as i said in my introduction of a very simple question for both of you is nato trying to get russia and ukraine to go to war. well i think that nato once a small conflict which your crane will more strike you most more strike you will then go on boss rebels themselves without rushing to get in bolt bought nato needs

. needs a pretext to all stop crying fall to stop saying all russia got involved in this crisis you know it can't be that these rebels just defeated kiev on their own there must be russian instructors there must be russian involvement well the problem is that if. the situation gets really serious we know from the georgian experience of 2008 that nato will not come to help you create so basically ukraine is not interested in in a real battle than the stand that nato will not help them you know ultimately so. it was not of course russia will start that base confrontation because look for russia it's the least appropriate moment you know the fate of their north jim to has been decided right now this is a new administration in the united states we don't want a terrible start for it you know with

a bomb or you know the table and all ministration so the only party that was interested was your creation because you know. basically mr selenski almost the whole collection here was his ratings were down he didn't get any calls from western leaders for months now you've got a call from biden he's got a call from boris johnson he talked to a young stoltenberg from a fuel stop them back said the vote of stupidity is like nato will not give you a law 'd your a privileged partner georgia was also privileged partner in 2008 so these are all dangerous brew occasions whose aim is to put the blame on russia and this was discussed in russia and a lot of people said by the ukrainians prove all you can us you know the russian hawks and then you know my friend roxanne you should from understand who is a really experienced journalist you said yes the problem is that the west will quickly forget the provocation from the ukrainian state went before god that it was

saakashvili. stop that that christina just so on the 7th of august 1008 it was like i feel it who bombarded scene body and only lead to russian question hold on do you know that the western public is just fat part of the story that's the usual tactic you know they got the beginning or they got there and you know they they a few bob nick the bot that is host to that that is in the interest oh all they're all pretty but i know you and they and they just forget the boat the rest of intense very randy that may have dodged it all so i go on in that in the american spectator recently which basically reminded people that you know that nicole and then make a mess in the ukraine by william smith he just reminded people of the awful the american spectator they had was the us who helped the cool in 2014 which actually to stop them the whole the whole tragedy and that and that article mentioned for

the 1st time i think in the in 7 years that it was victoria nuland who basically a point of being you know great brain meanest thing proposing for anyone that has watched this program over the years knows that we have ronald does and you're in and you know you might not want to be honored on the ground in georgia with me interesting dreamy as it is this is a gambit where the ukraine in the ukrainian soul in ski is provoking a calm that he knows he will lose militarily but hoping that he will get political room war and later as a pretty cavalier calculus would you agree it is very cavalier but it is a this is a remarkable phenomenon taking place which is you have. last week. tronson germany dating thought in a video conference call with them they have putin were very reasonable. they seem to be in agreement that there needs to be

a deescalation. then 1 france and germany issue a joint statement talk about again deescalation or all sides they talk about violations of the cease fire on all sides that are quite a remarkable statement for france and germany to make then the americans go into action so we have blinken making phone calls to the french foreign minister. you have been making phone calls to heikal nasr germany and suddenly it's a very different it's all russia all russian provocation all russian aggression russia's aggressive on the line of contact in ukraine russia's aggressive in crimea russia's aggressive and ukraine's borders so now suddenly france and germany are scooped up within the sort of the american position so you have to think that the american goal all along is that they don't really care about done as can look down but they do care about trying to get ukraine into nato is once they get ukraine

into nato then basically russia's completely cut off from europe and i think that's the goal then are you don't get mean ukraine it's very bad for ukraine if they lose the dumbass but the american goal is you know whichever way it goes ukraine you know ukraine's defeat it fine but now now there's no they can be no further resistance to getting ukraine into nato and i think that america is a play of a dangerous game and i said to stay game but i think that that's what's on the like it because there's no calls addle on the thought of the americans 1st for any sort of even handed approach of a deescalation they need looking for this conflict they need to do you know and again you know western audiences are not very well informed i mean there was a b. escalation process we had the normandy format we have been the men's one and 2 agreements were russia and a guarantor and it's very very simple and straight or not so you can you can get what you can put on one page so straightforward and what they're. the call to

prayer deescalation within because this is an interesting ukraine complex we have to remind everybody that ok it's within ukraine. is it really down bannisters we call it here on this program is the proposal is is is to decentralize maori in ukraine where they can say they can stay with within the borders of ukraine but the united states particularly is adamantly against that because of the winner take all no compromise in this approach when it actually begs the war to happen when you have a 0 sum approach go ahead well you are right you know for the country like ukraine part of which was basically in the territory of poland hungary romania just you know 70 years ago another part of it has been a part of russia for same trees you know of course for such a country further if ever it is is the solution everyone understands and by that it

was the united states and the nationalist ukrainian government supported by the united states that were adamant against federalism you know that their president who's. the president who was in basically almost that with help from the united states and the e.u. what was the name of his spot here because of the name of you know colleges argile regents you know as was the idea you know ukraine consists of very different os of the same people so it was only in a journal to have this decentralization but i'm afraid just on going to happen and drawing upon a very important subject we had a very irresponsible statement from janice in the ukraine and present this week you said that i call go all the way to solve the dauntless problem is to make a grain a member of nato what does it mean if your brain becomes a member of nato as you once that russia occupies your. vice ot so

nato crane year you know. if georgia becomes a member of nato as it was promised in 2008 then russia. then you have a cause big radii you know you have a legally clear situation where you and you know nato mostue a job or a russia this is a responsible bot this is the way these people conduct picks and is enhanced down the stance you lost the trust of the people the people who voted for him 75 percent of ukrainians voted 'd for him in 200-1000 because they expected peace in gone by us better relations with russia normal relations with the west but you know what happened was that basically is against you continuing poroshenko just and morris what j.f.k. is doing right now is very much like trump you know it was not coincidental that he

called trump he's teacher in that infamous conversation last year which almost cost his position you know look. at ski eason basically pursuing the same tactic he beats for the maximum grain is a member of nato in this way he holds the trash no one seed because you know in order to prevent such a terrible prospect of pressure with of course abandon the people and all boss and they can have you know ukrainian track of them and destroy all the elements that it doesn't want that they you know cancel the amnesty which they never never and now for the people going bust so basically this is the same tactic ass mr trump and in general i mean if you look at the general trend what was it that biden and the west deeds in the last few months that also different from trump their trade war with china continues you know their country and asian with russia can genius even even

on the great escape well you know we. everything including in time but you're right it's always been that there's bipartisan support for the worst things against george last minute one of my favorite things to say about ukraine and give you one minute to finish up she is that ukraine is thing going east it isn't going west it's staying exactly where it is in this is what what people in nato capitals don't understand one minute you are that i think that would be the ideal i mean is that somehow ukraine would be able to actually makes them gather and co-exist with all these different pots of it fortunately the west of the united states alexander their own it's been the same agenda since one $1009.00 the push russia out of europe once a role and to incorporate as much of the former soviet union within nato or as they can and the price of that may well be the last oh the eastern turkey the let's move gowns and maybe even more but that's lee margolis it's obviously not in ukraine's investment. and that's why i think that the iraq less late 2 by the by the

americans but i mean that i would i would be the end there. if there is a war it's like getting you know a 30. rigid ok ukraine one but the country will be broken down and i think that's it berry much but it's all right gentlemen that's all the time we hear of here want to make my guest and here in moscow and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are you see you next time remember. next geysers financial survival guide liquid assets not those that you can convert as quite easily. to keep in mind though as it's a means of places to watch because for.

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tempers flare in italy. to reopen. cold so i had a. ses it's reached an agreement with russia to. be seen through the. vienna to approve. thankful and grateful to russia that we are able to. fly. in california. a number of arrests.