to ask. the low in welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle there are calls for a 911 style investigation into the capitol hill riots of january 6th is this an effort to seek the truth or to fabricate another massive political hoax also does nato want russia and ukraine to go to war.

to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guests george samueli in budapest he's a pod caster at the gaggle which can be found on you tube and rumble and here in moscow we're joined by dmitri bobbish he is a political analyst and editor and knows me internet media project originally cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's start out with george and budapest george you know ever since the the riots of january 6th have been there's been talk all the way from the n.c. the all the way down to when this n.b.c. and c.n.n. and all that. wall street journal washington post on and on for a 911 style investigation here on the face of it i don't have a problem with that at all i mean about barely the d.o.j. is doing something they need more time that's all we find out ok but i really worry

is this another is this in the extension to the russia gate hoax or this ain't a completely new incarnation because given what we've seen over the last 5 years or what what no hope and trust you have that this isn't going to turn into a political witch hunt had george well of course we had no such quote or trust and remember the 911 but it wasn't commission or was it still what joe because the most important piece of information was actually with el traum the public mainly the role model of saudi arabia which we still are fully about you know a little more than we did when he was less public but we still don't know the full extent of it so that's not exactly a good but just meant we want to buy an 11 commission of what is rather sinister about this letter. 5 about from the signatories all along. 2. all of the ninety's all the nature and of the united states invasion of iraq

that subsequently maybe it's all these are all people names that we're very familiar with you know we have people like james clapper ben rhodes you know everyone that you would think of our friend of example been man of ukraine gate. and if you read this letter on it what does it say it's a not really to find out why the policing was so wrong. let's go astray on the 6th why did the police. to react initially why did they overreact. that's all they're interested in they want to get at the white supremacy white supremacy they use that word even though no evidence of any white supremacy involvement we want to get domestic terrorism domestic greener. and then more sinister he they talk about. coordinate this information about they that they

have to address and the nontransparent financing now what is it will mean well what they want congress the boss laws to enable the government to just because people deep platforms and say to you george i did this to kind of in the preamble to this is here a twitter and facebook and nothing to worry about ok there's vehicles of this missing for an m m permission just information here. george brought up the $911.00 report which actually it actually was the foundation of the patriot acts and then we knew will here and that was a power grab a power grab to dave not me link it will it relinquished in this day so i guess the parallel is this $911.00 like investigation of january 6th is going to be a way to duplicate the patriot act just domestically and george mentioned seeking

out white supremacists i think what they're saying subtext reading between the lines trumps supporters go ahead jim. well yes and it's typical for a need to tell you terry and ideology to demonize bit enemy and not know it just the obvious fact so i think the most obvious absurdity of the 911 investigation was that 15 out of 19 terrorists who committed this hideous terrorist act where a us citizen so saudi arabia none of them was an iraq yet none of them was a levy and none of them was in the rainy and but it was leaving iraq and possibly now iran these contests are targeted by the us in the frame for all that so-called war on terror a right of the same story here i'm in now we have these people now see gin in jail like this you know getting mad and you know basically. saying that

they are so sorry abolish what happened 'd to put these waves the means that they were through both you see that they are not russian agents you know they are not part of a jewish conspiracy or something but the state just doesn't want to or not which is the obvious that not everyone is k.p. who live there the actions of the government with the polish of the democratic party i mean right now the population is going to cough up 3 millions for the so-called infrastructure reform right so there is station in sight society and how do these general cease pointed their lead they say oh christopher a from the f.b.i. said it was not an isolated event you know there is a conspiracy behind it we have to go to the root so we do you know we have to uncover all these people and unfortunately the same story in europe west feel how many basically 6 months away from their election in germany is in september but

already jewish people magazine published a huge investigate. how russia handle that my line and actors are pulling in judo influence these elections so it's the same picture everywhere it. brings up a great point here georgie it's seems to me again the way the russia gate hoax actually corralled the being the center of politics and progressives and portly and this isn't a repetition of the dollar ok i but i always saw in russia gate as a. an agenda to corral political forces to keep him in line and i think we seeing the same thing to know $15.00 an hour per pro for workers ok no health care but white supremacy oh my god and that's how they keep their coalition together through fear and orange oh that's exactly right and let's

remember what russia gate hoax was about they seized on some nonsense which is a few russians may have balls some ads facebook to make some money anybody can and they cooked up a complete hoax that putin himself did what it got involved in the 2016 election in order to secure the election of donald trump no 2 evidence whatsoever for any of this was ever present it but it kept the hoax going and you know the moment that the mala reports came up as a ukraine gate hoax came into operation so you can see what's really going on and now we've got the john you're the 6 folks down in europe they talk about violent extremism they know i'm not want us i'm in that capitol hill or riot as bill was arrested who had any instruments of violence everything that many guns no one has been arrested with a gun so that was ok you have now created a hoax that there was

a violent insurrection on january the 6th and then you can just keep it. this is going but it's a violent insurrection being fed by sinister people like donald trump then the government must go into action to crackdown on it so that was the same thing with russia gate well russia is everywhere that she is trying to destroy a body politic trying to destroy our democracy so yeah that's why it is it is so important to maintain this folks and i mean that these are all people all the people signed this letter o. actively involved the russian gatos ukraine gatos and i was to china to say. you know. this it seems to me that the this is just purely a political agenda be president best the is the end in itself going going through the process of vetting people and and making it. legitimizing in normalising everyone has to be bedded in the military in the police academia. basically it's

a kind of a. transference of control that they had during this pandemic of control over people's lives they want to institutionalize it and they want to pick winners and losers of course the winners will be people that support this agenda anyone that resists obviously is a internal domestic enemy and that's how they're going to do it and it's a great way to control people. well i want to have people hold that thought on in the united states but they're all the walled that somehow the united states off to this terrible actionable come back to normalcy and all the people know it and that . joe biden is a centrist he's not the progress if is long right ico but we see that basically it doesn't matter who biden east because they're all much more powerful force and hoff and the 2nd reason is basically

a already way you have the so-called centrist party has become. i mean more and more aggressive i mean look the wars in iraq and in yugoslavia were started by people in august who officially were not the extreme right the extreme left they were the so-called moderates sat on the drum and social democrats for the white sake went to war for the 1st time since 1405 in yugoslavia it's the same story here basically of their so-called american sat that has become so corrupt and so paranoid i mean any question of bob they lections which wearing didn't you know very very strange and they won't if people have questions any such question is now well a boat s. a conspiracy theory you know we see how the washington post ghost off the door horny you know if we just question you know questioning once we're in the long you know why why a big tech company as you know why don't you know they have actually why there are

so many questions and all the identity all the people who vote on these o.t. judgment questions but what they're trying to do is to nip in the bottom any kind of just sound you know the next election is going to be out with these $11000000.00 immigrants but. those of them who want to hold for democrats will push our way gently through and don't you dad to resist if you're good to resist and that means your one of those people who acted on january the 6th that's the message i think you know if george this is really another elaborate form of intimidation and it goes and to very basic a basic right of freedom of speech freedom of assembly and even freedom of worship i mean if you look at a lot of these blue states again they they they attacked religion ok last 40 seconds go to you for this part go ahead george it is it's imitation because it will be it's a mechanism to ensure that people whose views we don't like will not be able to get

a platform they will not be on the social media and we're in luck they won't even be able. get a u.r.l. that won't even be only internet it would just cease to exist and that's one way and that's why they won't be able to raise any money that's why they bring up this issue of financing you know we saw this when the case of some of these defendants the media are actively ensuring that some of these are joining the 6 defendants. 2 and for their own defense ok we're going to keep it all going on here gentlemen we're going to win short break now enough not to go broke we'll continue our discussion real mistake or.

let me explain and be amply truths of what's happening in america said oh you've got these tens of trillions of dollars worth of debt and having to 50 trillion dollars worth of debt which is just another way to say u.s. government treasury bond yeah which are currently 30 years are roughly 2 percent now out of the coupon or the interest on those 30 year paid for their pain from taxes collected from taxpayers and they taxpayers pay those taxes to the federal government who in turn pay off the bondholders who own those bonds the richest 110th of one percent so wealth transfer mechanism so it's not inflation it's not

deflation it's neil feudalism. the industry faces millions of you know the. daily beast is. all about making money making profits it's about the corporations international markets import export do you imagine the number of printing diseases in every community. due to new viruses own new microbes that's not true so it is due to environment. to say either the moment of disability or the sort of really secure they could only come in to see to. the plate. if the so food industry is successful it will create more jobs it will create more value added it will create more growth so i don't see why we shouldn't also fight

for the interest something in history except that we have regulation we want regulation i was interest in if we don't behave zinnias penalty that's fine. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this is the home edition to remind you that we're discussing some real news. about this go back to diem here in moscow d.m.o. you know on this program we're keeping a very close sign what's going on the internal politics of what's going on in ukraine and how outside forces namely nato appears to be stoking. an aggressive stance and of course russia is reacting so as i said in my introduction of

a very simple question for both of you is nato trying to get russia and ukraine to go to war. well i think that the. nato once a small conflict which ukraine will most likely lose most privately to the gone bust rebels themselves without crushing getting involved by a nato needs needs a pretext to stop crying fall to stop saying all russia got involved in this crisis you know it can't be that these rebels just defeated kiev on their own there must be russian instructors there must be russian involvement well the problem is that if. the situation gets really serious we know from the georgian experience of 2008 that nato will not come to help you create so basically ukraine is not interested in in a real battle down the stand that nato will not help them you know ultimately so.

it was not of course russia will start that base confrontation because look for russia it's the least appropriate moment you know the fate of their north jim to has been decided right now this is a new would be a stray ssion in the united states we don't want to tell you more stop for it you know with a bomb or you know the table and or ministration so the only party that was interested was your creation because you know. basically mr selenski almost the local 'd election here was his ratings were down he didn't get any calls from western leaders for months now even got a call from biden he's got a call from boris johnson he talked to young stole them back from a fuel stop and back said the vote of stupidity is slake nato will not give you a law your a privileged partner oh georgia was also privileged bachmann befalls an aide so these are all dangerous brew occasions whose aim is to put the blame on russia and

this most discussed in russia and a lot of people said by the ukrainians prove all we can us you know the russian. hawks and then you know my friend roxanne you should from understand it was already experienced john as you said yes the problem is that the west will quickly forget the provocation from the ukrainians right when they forgot that it was saakashvili who started that christina just on the 7th of august 2008 it was like i seen it who bombarded seen body is only lead to russian question vote but you know the western public is just step out of the story that's the usual tactic you know they got the beginning or they've got to have you know they they feed the politic the boss that is most sure that that is in the interest of all their ultra liberal ideology and they and they just forget about the rest it happens very rarely that we have dodgy calls like there was in the. demo you can spectator recently which basically

reminded people that you know that me called the hive mind they make a mess in the ukraine by william smith he just reminded people as also that americans made was the us who helped the coup in 2014 which actually started the whole the whole trade you said and that article mentioned for the 1st time i think an in 7 years that is most victoria nuland who basically a point that the new ukrainian braininess been proposing for anyone that has watched this program over the years knows that we are on a cold and nas the emir and he might not want to bond on the ground george with the interesting to me is that this is a gambit where ukraine in the ukrainian selinski is provoking a come late that he knows he will lose militarily but hoping that he will get political rewards later that's a pretty cavalier calculus would you agree it is very cavalier but it is

a remarkable phenomena database which is you have earlier. last week. france and germany dating thought in a video conference call with they may have putin were very reasonable. they seem to be in agreement that there needs to be a deescalation then 1 france and germany issue a joint statement talk about a game deescalation or all sides they talk about violations of the cease fire on all sides either a remarkable statement for france and germany to make then the americans go into action so we have blinked and making phone calls to the french foreign minister. you have been making phone calls to heikal nasr germany and suddenly it's a very different it's all russia all russian provocation all russian aggression russia's aggressive on the line of contact in the ukraine russia's aggressive in

crimea russia's aggressive and ukraine's borders so now suddenly france and germany . scooped up within the sort of the american position so you have to think that the american goal all along is that they don't really care about done as can look around but they do care about trying to get ukraine into nato is once they get ukraine into nato they basically russia's completely cut off from europe and i think that's the goal they didn't get mean ukraine it's very bad for you great if they lose the dumbass but the american goal is you know whichever way it goes ukraine you know ukraine's defeat it fine but now now there's no they can be no further resistance to getting ukraine into nato and i think that america is a play of a dangerous game and i said to stay game but i think that that's what's on the like it because there's no cold addle on the part of the americans most for any sort of even handed approach of a deescalation they really looking for this conflict they need to do you know and

again you know western audiences are not very well informed i mean there was a b. escalation process we. and the normandy format we have the the men's one and 2 with greens were russians a guarantee for us and it's very very simple and straight forward actually can you can it's like you can put it on one page so straightforward and when there is a call to burn deescalation we didn't because this is an entry ukraine complet may have to remind everybody ok when in ukraine. is it really the dumbass as we call it here on this program the proposal is this is to decentralize in ukraine where they can stay they can stay with within the borders of ukraine but the united states particularly is adequately against that because it's a winner take all no compromised in this approach we it when it actually begs a war to happen when you have

a 0 sum approach go ahead well you are right you know for the country like ukraine otto which was basically in the toto for china your own man yeah just you know all 70 years ago and on the pago it has been a problem russia for centuries you know of course for such a country of federalism is the solution everyone understands it. it was the united states and the nationalist ukrainian government supported by them that states that were adamant against federalism you know that they have a president who's part of the president who was a basic a almost that with their help from the united states and the e.u. what was the name of his pocket because of the name or you know or just argue over egypt you know instead was the idea you know ukraine can see so very different os from the same people so it was only nature to have these decentralization but. just on going to happen and georgia on

a very important subject we kind of very irresponsible statement from. president this week he said the. i called bill all the way to solve the donbass problem is to make your brain a member of nato what does it mean if your brain becomes a member of nato as here as you once that russia occupies occupy us auto nato craney or you know. if georgia becomes a member of nato as it was promised in 2008 then russia over your part is a positive that you have a cause bailey radii you know you have a legally clear situation where you get all nato must wage of war on russia this is a response simple this is the way these people conduct politics and as it is counter stance you lost the trust of the people who people who voted for him 75 percent of ukrainians voted for him in 2100 because they expected peace in gone bust better

relations with russia normal relations with the west but you know what happened was there basically is against you continual poroshenko was always just and morris was just is doing great i was very much like trump you know it was not coincidental that he called trump his teacher in their infamous conversation last year which almost cost stronger his position you know look. yes he is basically pursuing the same tactic he bids for the maximum wage bill graham is a member of nato in this way he hopes that russia would seed because you know in order to prevent such a terrible prospect the pressure will of course abandon the people don't bother they can have a you know ukraine can have them and destroy all the elements that it doesn't like it that they achieve you know castle in their midst in which they never never

announced for the people gone bust so basically this is the same tactic i asked mr trump and in general i mean if you look at the general trend. what more is it that biden and the west deed in the last few months also different from trump though their trade war with china continues you know the country invasion with russia continuous human even on the great to ski all well and we all know everybody including it in time but you're right it's always been that there's bipartisan support for the worst things against george last minute one of my favorite things to say about ukraine and give you one minute to finish up she is in ukraine isn't going east it isn't going west it's staying exactly where it is in this is what people in nato capitals don't understand one minute you are that i think that would be the ideal i mean is that somehow ukraine would be able to actually makes them together and co-exist with all these different parts of it unfortunately the west the power of the united states alexander their own it's been the same agenda since

1009. out of europe once a role and to incorporate as much of the former soviet union within nato or as they can and the price of that may well be the last oh the eastern turkey the let's move gowns and maybe even more american dollars it's obviously not in ukraine's investment. and that's why i think that we are reckless 2 by the by the americans but i mean that i would i would be the end there. if there is a war it's like getting you know a 30. rigid ok ukraine one but the country will be broken down and i think that's it berry much good all right gentlemen that's all the time we hear of here want to make my guest and here in moscow and i want to thank our viewers watching us here are you see you next time remember.

this look it's a cold this is. and you do this because when you look up and you manage to go forward from the hundreds. that you'll see just who do. you think you think it was national guard coming off. the plane. to libya. it's a look which are going to force me. to. these critics one of the biggest musical the new the roof because the. shooting into my previous mirror. both of you knew those who. oppose someone. because of the old style if you will it's pretty easy.

to reopen off the covert shut down. trio says its recent agreement with russia why a 1000000 doses of the sputnik vaccine itself to countries were devised for us to approve a shot for use. we are very thankful and grateful. that we are able to buy your. fists flying as a white lives month or body in california. to protest this number of arrests all my . life i hope.