in fact there's something of a division within israel about what to do about this netanyahu has been stuck along on one track on iran for by 20 years saying iran is only a few months away or 2 years away at most from a nuclear weapon and he's his policy is basically been one of containment compay forever containment not just containment but forever. and that policy is not working and has to be working and israeli officials have started to question it and for the 1st time we've heard explicit public pushback from senior security and intelligence officials saying you know actually we'd like to go back and j.c. . and what's more we want to go back and we suggest we go back without adding anything to it no questions including missiles or other aspects into the negotiation. j p p

o if we want to go back to that israel was safer at that time than it is now and these are senior officials former heads of must that i'm talking about it and i think it reflects something actually more substantial that's taken place in iran and that is that you know we've been talking all the time about the nuclear issue being the real issue but actually tourists around it suddenly transformed because actually it's not the big one that has been the main issue it's all the small ones that little while the smart cruise missiles swarm drones stretching from yemen through iraq iran syria and iran to a certain extent into gaza this is much more of a real threat and a real that the terrorists. those missiles are hugely accurate the sworn drones that very effective we. saw that in the attack on iran. last year where they were

precisely what missiles what precisely. into their targets so this is a different level of terrorists it's a new deterrence that iraq has since what i call the. oh oh there i'm going to tax which cause the biggest spike in history i think on the oil price were from yemen iran very keen to distance itself from direct responsibility for that and if you are saying that former mossad people maybe you're in touch with the missing this then why the fact that mossad seem to be briefing presumably western intelligence agencies in the past few days that they were responsible for this hack of the natanz nuclear facility in his van province in iran. oh this is you know really a reflection of the politicize ation increasing politicized station of intelligence everywhere whether it's in america or whether it's britain who all whether it's in

israel. because you you had in the past people like me or the guy who was the editor who i used to know he was not dead but i mean he was very top where netanyahu originally wanted to take action against iran i mean he just said no and so did the head of the security service and they said absolutely not it would be a great mistake strategic mistake for israel to attack iran. and now also what we have is your c. cohen as you head. who's a great fan of netanyahu and you know is someone who wants to make his career out of tackling iran become an entry probably to put his hat in the ring to be prime minister of israel one day but it's basically a very politicized intelligence because mossad has been saying all along iran is on the brink of the kernel implosion it's collapsing its economy is almost being grew

in and we all know now that's not true it's not the case and in fact now. iran is moving into a new europe of cooperation 1st 4 with the china but also within russia not just on trade but on training intelligence sharing security issues joint exercises when really a very big change taking place that we have we have made a post rex a china deal here in the u.k. either thing properly just because because this hasn't obviously been covered in the nation media at all. some people might be asking you what do you mean there's a been a massive trade deal between and the people's republic and the islamic republic. well it's a soft of the talks that took place in anchorage. who which you were a call a little earlier ago when the americans and the chinese sort of exchanged. criticisms

each other quite vociferously. the secretary of state was there to talk to them about their failings and shortly after that the chinese foreign minister came to tehran and he signed. an a memorandum of understanding a trade deal reputedly they don't disclose again tales of the economic aspect repeatedly between $400600000000.00. a big really 1000000000 dollars sorry not 1000000000000000 dollars i mean big and this is something very important to china because what we're seeing is that this is going to find a really big shift in in the whole of the middle east and the greater your age it is about opening up the east west trade group across the north of the middle east directly into europe the north south route which also passes through iran and goes down to the south that might buy parcel with rowell lines into pakistan

looking pakistan into the road in belts. a whole exercise in expanding trade through infrastructure through a pipeline through railway lines very soon be a 4th line or rail line going straight from machine shown province in china through to europe at the moment it's not high speed but soon it'll be high speed that'll cut the costs of transport are and will make it cheaper than actually using container ships for the transportation this part of the exercise in the old expression of actually moving away from the really maritime. space on the atlantic and around the world which is where america and britain strengthens the and to focus on a land based network from europe right through to china which of the 8

the need for all these choke points to pass through the checkpoints which basically the west mostly control bubble manda almost straight all of these straits which they controlled by the west for moving and aegean oil and gas and cargo and to turn it into an whole network and of course when you look at that network either way if you look at it east west china europe north south russia us down to the open waters in the south the persian gulf iran is right plum center in both and has been i mean since the laws so gross largely sort of evaporated in the 1500s but it was always a potion traders who are new come on of those trade routes really in the centuries up to the 1500s when they went into so i mean they're really crucial to china

crucial to to to russia not only in trade but in security and of course china is expecting to have the return which is going to be iranian oil that's what it wants security of energy. and i think they've obviously had to tiptoe over the sanctions and 3rd party sanctions elements of the current nato nation regiment. we've actually been hearing about manned straits problems in the context of ethiopia and eritrea bizarrely but them given that you you personally have been involved in conflict resolution across the tables from conflicting parties. just before we get back to what we're talking about what do you do what did you make of the language meeting when the chinese finally came out on the world stage as it were and read the riot act to joe biden's administration about lectures on human rights. i think we'll look back on it in a few years time as

a real turning point in history it really surprises me in a way because through chinese of being very cautious i mean i talked to chinese officials and they've been always very cautious and very cautious about what they said but i mean what was most significant after that was then there was a very important strategic meeting between the chinese foreign minister in about 2 days after the anchorage talks and the and mr lavrov the russian foreign minister in which they discussed the yet closer arrangement between the 2 a strategic partnership association between the 2 countries but after that the chinese foreign minister went to saudi arabia and tara and in toronto he used language which went on accustomed to hearing he recommended to the middle east a that they throw all 3 yoke of western hedging money

including on civil rights and other issues. only they also told them to prize sought for autonomy and not to love pressures from the west to influence their policy i mean this is a this is the sort of language that used to come from the resistance front it was very striking to hear this coming from a chinese foreign minister and i think this does therefore that anchorage the meeting with loughborough and then the visit to the middle east marks a real turning point in terms of chinese position china also said. it wants a nonproliferation for the entire middle east not just for iraq by implication including israel which of course would be an estimate of the united states in that way and he called for he said very clearly that it was quite wrong that we should

all use our efforts against western countries trying to pressure iran through sanctions and that these should be removed from it and then iran should be able to return to some form of treatment on nuclear issues in the context of a completely new comprising of the middle east. white radical things for the chinese foreign minister to be saying. well obviously israel very unclear about nuclear weapons we want to speak to mordechai vanunu he's not allowed to speak to to the press. from the founder of complex form up to this break. does the biden foreign policy differ from the out of trumps at this point not really however there is one difference trumpet challenge the bipartisan consensus

in failed biden on the other hand appears happy to oblige the interagency consensus is winning again. seems wrong. just don't call. me. yet to shape out the attic. and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. the world is driven by a dream shaped by one person of those. who

dares thinks. we dare to ask. geysers financial survival guide liquid said those that you can convert into gas quite easily. to keep in mind though as the to mean the place of the large group or . welcome back i'm still with allister crook former m i 6 agent and the founder director of conflicts for to avoid this sounding like we television station of choice of xi

jinping and let me a putin that could also mean that china was rattled on their 3 stakes in this game that china and russia are a little wary of james jeffrey the former ambassador to syria told p.b.s. in the past few days al-qaeda is a sin syria is an asset of the united states also there is israel this ironclad guarantee given in the past few days by biden's pentagon boss and and of course there are the troops on the air ukraine russia border and the threat by the by did ministration of retaliation military retaliation resumed against russia. or yes i think as a row i really saw no sense. if you like supremacy or and i think in the 1st it was before the anchorage talks. the chinese were still hoping that could be

a moment a modus vivendi achieved with biden ministration i think it was at the anchorage and what led up to anchorage all the threats than the new sanctions that were imposed and the statements coming out of the us a convinced them that there was a knowledge there are preparing and rush to i think for the sense that the opening of a clash sumps will between the united states and russia china and iran is almost inevitable and that this is something that is going to be the deciding the decisive moment in the future of geopolitics global geopolitics really of entry i'm not talking necessarily about a military war but i'm talking about a full spectrum crypto war financial war economic war trade war all of these things combine information war particularly demonizing china demonizing russia the sort of mobilize they should call it 6 element of it is that is very

crucial in all of this and these states are really and particularly putin and russia are very concerned that unless. it is very carefully handled this could slip into some sort of escalation which would be very dangerous. for everybody you mentioned ukraine i mean that is. an area that is an issue which could blow up very easily we still don't know what's going to happen. the reports that cargo planes arriving from the united states we don't know whether they carry weapons but very likely they do the russians got troops across or around the border bella russa's put it. the russians are doing a read in this case the butchery of their own power army against the possibility that there are. will launch some sort of. attacking us and then what would happen

if there's any response from russia i mean nato would go nuts you're right it states europe probably would. be very easily break. i'm not sure what turkey would do in fairness to the nato they'd grouping i just got to give a quick sidebar to this in case people think i'm speaking to you from london you're in rome and we haven't mentioned the european union at all and here we are talking about the future of the 21st century what is going on in the european union i mean syria resolved or all in the eastern mediterranean ukraine is the largest country in europe and we have a we have the european union's jews of burrill the de facto foreign minister saying in a blog we will not stop imposing economic sanctions on syria there will be no normalization of any level we will never support reconstruction efforts that learn every european union thought of the state oriented media talking about the need for.

defense against vladimir putin and she jinping. well i think syria is something that the the european union has sort of taken on not so much as a strategic interest but is about a reflection on the temp by the european union to highlight european values on human rights and other issues and as part of the ship we're seeing whereby. the europe is trying to redefine itself stroh's and to redefine itself with strategic autonomy and that strategic autonomy is to be defined by european civilization by the use unfortunately it comes just at the point where really the whole idea of universal human balances rejected by most of the pro as no longer appropriate and

they say you know we all have our other civilized. chinese they are civilization about us' are a harmony and community not individuals and not price and so it's quite difficult so they are they will make an effort on that yes on syria it will be like that ukraine is a much more problematic for the european union but i mean basically the european union has almost 0 or ations with russia now it's gone i mean it was not so long ago 10 years ago when it was thought in the europe and elsewhere that there would be a greater europe stretching from drop it. down to do list on and that if europe if russia was not part of the european union it would share everything but institution since i think prodi at one stage mentioned and all of that has collapsed and now they're off. lever off the foreign minister since there are almost no relationship

we have no relations with the institutions with brussels with the european union with. certain member states maybe but it's a very serious position in europe being caught between these 2 big powers who are rivals united states was china russia are on the other europe's biggest trading partner is not china lot of united states it was a taker by that because of the swoop belt that i was describing with traders and trucks coming with goods from china to europe the price of the earth and so we are . europe is in a very difficult position of trying to sort of. position itself and it needs of course investment and it needs trade ok well i mean if we can i just say if we discount what comes out the b.b.c.

about syria and us stations and every nato nation really. one might then argue that a syrian family maybe on the outskirts of it live is going to be thinking you know we have a 70 percent extreme poverty in syria 60 percent unemployment. they reported the rebranding of isis and al-qaeda in syria to kick off another war in syria it couldn't come too soon help from powers like china and russia and this with iran even while why are they being so-so. not trying to not being slow i mean but the fact is that the united states and europe as sanctioned any effort to reconstruct syria and i mean let's be clear we're not talking about reconstructing the government all the state such we're talking about

ordinary humanitarian reconstruction houses help you know with water supplies electricity is all that is being sanctioned by western states and the situation of ordinary syrians is deplorable it's a really i mean beyond bad it's there and terrible impoverishment. but neither russian where are billeted to to to simply rebuild syria and if you rebuild syria i mean the next thing you see will be a tomahawk missile or a missile coming from somewhere you know not well which will destroy that structure the united states policy remains that they want to see and it's got stronger. by because you have people i mean if you ask me about someone like blinken of course he was an odds with biden when he was vice press because he said there

should be more done to get rid of more pressure more influence from your hardest to get rid of it must be. very very hard in washington on it but national security adviser jake sullivan is known for e-mailing clinton hillary clinton back in 22 of it al qaeda is on our side in syria and biden acknowledged that al-qaeda was in alliance with the united states was in the us and our allies and here we are just as it is being on the show we went to damascus and he said they're going to be elections this year presumably they can be no elections while the european union. well i don't know who they committing murder by these sanctions on syrian people and the united states continues to threaten syria and israel bombs damascus as it has in the bottom to do. yes i mean we do have. a extraordinary bad situation with turkey sponsoring jihadists in italy maybe 2 or

3000000 people under the control of al qaida or head choppers if you like that ilk i mean they're not very pleasant people to talk and then you have the northeast inside. turkey supporting a kurdish and america's 40 a sort of kurdish more autonomy and then you have the rest of the population most of the urban population but i think the will be elections held or it's possible to be held and they will be held in embassies outside syria who are those who are refugees if there are a lot i mean moved when they held elections. for i think a teen or something and in lebanon there were huge queues of syrians floating the embassy in beirut i don't know whether lebanon were allowed to do that i don't know whether they'll be allowed to hold it in other places it won't be it'll be

a very imperfect election and of course people who view it with very different lenses and others will say it's a farce an analysis and others say let's see how it goes and let's look at the sort of turnout took place within syria the turnout and who they voted for in outside syria yes and he said there will be more hotly disputed no one will accept it at all because i mean the president there will be multiple candidates because nobody's political parties are under sanctions as well from the european union and britain now it's actually 75 years since the independence of syria on saturday would what those through your mind about how journalists fail to see blowback after what we saw in afghanistan after what we see saw in. is directly that they don't realize the danger is over as you call them head job is coming to your of of the this what seems to be continued ruffled london washington support

for what could harm ruffo of month in washington well i remember some time ago often that's broke out going on a main channel on television in the u.k. and i said you know what you're seeing here is a concerted attempt to regime change in law using. this tool using extreme sunni radicals to bring this about and i was told oh well you know how do you not telling me the financial times is wrong that the economist chris wrong and the b.b.c. is wrong when they show these videos all the time and i said yes that is the case they are all these men through these videos a lot of it use of fake reviews has been and i think you had it exposed about the huge effort the has be to create

a new commission. misinformation. amongst certain institutions funded by the british foreign office to present syria or sad in the worst possible light it's very hot i mean. for all of your viewers it's impossible really to get to the bottom of the truth about syria it's just so much it the water is so minded the details are so much it it's terrible i so really indictment of the west and all of us i mean what's happening because it's the syrian people it's not a you know it's not overthrow the government it's the syrian people who live in dire conditions and suffered terrible. infringements of their very kind. thank you that's all for the vision of going underground will be back on saturday 60 years to the day of the bay of pigs invasion when washington tried to destroy

the cuban revolution was regarded as a fundamental human right for one of us deaths per capita $45.00 here in britain that think you can judge but will also show you. the same wrong wrong just don't hold. anything you need to shape out just to become educated and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

then you should be like you took notes this is your money you give us the 1st one to the purest we go forward from the hundreds. that's awesome you just sort of do want to. see if it was national guard coming off . the plate you talk a little. it's a local issue for me to fulfill. their hope i will support scoop one of these critics one of google's musical you'd be near the roof because the. shingle life would be smeared. all over this you. know post someone. else with thoughts of old style if you believe that e.g. if.

that. was. the 1st. 3rd night protests unrest in minnesota where a black man was killed by an officer crowds or a gang pulling to defund police while somebody going on the rampage rioting and looting living property owners in the. muslims in france accuse the state of trying to control all aspects of the lawn from the choice of clothes to the schooling of the children with a new bill designed to counter the separatism. a miserable john johnson and johnson suspends rollouts.