hello and welcome to cross top where all things considered i'm peter lavelle does the biden foreign policy differ from that of trump's at this point agency consensus is winning again. across talking american foreign policy i'm joined by my guess ivan eland in washington he is a senior fellow at the independent institute and author of the book war and the road presidency in del mar we have scott ritter he is a former intelligence officer and a united nations weapons inspector and in los angeles we cross it joe collins he is a former california congressional republican candidate and u.s. navy that are gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime he want and i always appreciate let me go to scott 1st and del mar i want to go offer my introduction here we have a new president we have a new administration we were told that would be everything different from tom but

in terms of foreign policy there's an enormous amount of continuity and i think it's very important to point out to is that as i said is that. the bipartisan consensus any largely lost. with joe biden seems to be really quite willing to embrace that i mean when we look at biden's policy towards russia towards china his administration is going to places really fast i don't think they know how they're getting there and what the outcome is going to be because it's terrifying a lot of people how to use compelled to reconstitute the mechanisms of national security policy and foreign policy making the job administration. for. sure in terms of how college he was made many positions were not staffed other positions were just ignored and you know trump and his inner circle were making policy as opposed to the old fashioned way where you know. were put out to

different departments they came together and deputies committees in the national security council came together and principals committees where the cabinet members got together and made you know again the president so that's what's returning to and when you do that you become a prisoner of process and so that's what we see with you know american foreign policy national security policy today is that joe biden has allowed the bureaucracy . of decision making to once again take over and as a result 'd we see a lot of confusion we see a lot of cross talk as they try and get their act together i don't think we have a mature foreign policy 'd that was relevant that was it was evident in the fact that biden released what he called the interim national security sam energy. normally this document takes months to repair it is a finalized document to provide 'd solid foundation upon which departments and it

can formulate policy this was interim guidance and was badly and it's going to the back at the by demonstration is spreading water they're struggling to keep their head afloat they really don't know what they're doing well scott i mean and then you have this enormous amount of what i would say bombastic rhetoric without a coherent policy let me go to i've been here i mean going back to the on the processes of foreign policy making but what about the policies themselves i understand they're going back to the ways of how to formulating it but i seems to me that there are defaulting back on policies that we're not garnering success i've been i mean even and washington go ahead you can i think you can make that argument i would say that biden is certainly more conventional and chop and he certainly has scott put it he's going back to the original bureaucratic. model but of course that allows the agencies to you now fire the process and squelch any new

ideas now the problem with trump on the other hand. was he himself some of his policies were very new and some of them were actually acceptable answer the problem that he had was he just shot from the hip there were there was nobody even to to challenge him when he when he kind of went off the reservation sometimes so i think you know that's me sort of a happy medium but i think joe biden is more conventional certainly but i'm not sure that biden you know for instance i don't think biden is all that enthusiastic about these 4 afterwards being there now of course he's more cautious spec getting out of them that's one area that's different and i think you saw. the russia that biden quickly wanted to remain you the

most probably the most important thing in u.s. security is still the axis stanch all threat of russian nuclear weapons and also for russia american nuclear weapons and so i think that that has been a one positive aspect of biden's. ministration it was done quickly and also i fully support that and i think it's an i report now you can argue that i thought i would criticize biden for trying to be. opposed to both russia and china at the same time that's not henry kissinger yeah. you're getting what you're getting ahead of me with china you are getting ahead of me that's important you have to do the opposite here you have to make about russia balance against china in this case but i don't see that's being a very smart policy ok that's exactly where i wanted to go on this program and let me go to joe and los angeles here i mean i find it. very troubling that this

bombastic rhetoric against russia and china simultaneously and essentially talking you know putting out these statements in public you know we're going to do what we will defend ukraine sovereignty will depend taiwan's of sovereignty i mean have they thought all of this through here because and for the chinese person respective in the russian perspective these are fighting words ok and people are preparing for it seems to me very very. immature and bombastic from the outgo i mean what there's not even an attempt to reach out and try to negotiate that we we have a new administration this is an opportunity to do it it's just the opposite of what we're seeing right now go ahead joe. yeah i have absolutely agree you know when it comes to the by an administration foreign policy i think it's one of the worst i've ever seen and in my entire life i think this is the 1st time we had a president who would say in people in this place in order to make deals i think

you know we can't forget that you know joe biden is using the americans as a personal and to give funds back over to different countries without taking care of the united states. but i think when it comes to foreign policy you know i can't think of one thing that by the ministration has done that is going to positively affect the united states in the engine of the united states globally ok very good point there scott what is this with ukraine here i mean what is driving this is it is it the jake sullivan is victoria nuland and tony blinken says that the president of ukraine is alinsky i mean why is this such an imperative thing right now you have all these phone calls with nato officials e.u. officials everyone's really wound up here what's going on here what is driving this . what struck out in this is russia's asserting itself as not only a regional player but a global player. and the fact that the united states it never forget. that

you know by this falling back on a foundation of ideological beliefs in the united states east of the russia russia lost the cold war and we've never forget and forgive and vladimir putin we're trying to rebuild russia in the aftermath if you want to understand what's going on in ukraine today you need to understand that united states in the decade investing in a gentleman named boris yeltsin who was supposed to subordinate russia to all things western all things united states and this failed. and the people who promoted this promoted the embrace of course yeltsin had to deal with the reality of latter mere putin under barack obama there was a reset attempt but it wasn't a reset for vladimir putin it was a reset for dimitri meant the a.v. while crude was prime minister so his hopes that $130.00 min v.a.d. of we could push putin out of power and have russia rip current to the fold down

minutes this didn't work so what's happening in ukraine is an extension of a policy that seeks to undermine vladimir putin's russia by empowering them near abroad we saw that in georgia we see that ukraine we see that within the former republics in the baltic. it's a policy that's out of control and not in touch with reality supporting more of the most corrupt governments in the world who are supporting a state a nation that doesn't function properly and we're destabilizing an entire region all out of fight. that's all this is his fight for glad to hear putin yes i mean for him that's not a foreign policy and demonization is not a foreign policy and i mean let me come back to what the team in washington you know what i find so peculiar here the all of the. quote unquote help from the obama administration to help ukraine you know with the being part of the overthrow of the legal government in 2014 as

a result of crimea left and then you have the donbass that went into revolt and now they want the same b. team from the king about its sovereignty but it's because of these people that the sovereignty of ukraine is changed and not to you obviously to the betterment of camp i mean why do they keep trying the same failed policies go ahead in washington . well i think they were they were essentially put down this path by george w. bush who promised ukraine to get into nato and i think you know you ukraine it's very important historically to russia and i think there's a big lack of empathy in the united states for russia and i agree that vladimir putin has been excessively demonized because then it becomes difficult to work with him on a certain issue right now but as i mentioned did they did do that with the strategic arms. treaty and that's very important nation biden start that you know.

it's been going on ever since 1909 i think when put in turkey over and for some of the reasons that have been stated and i also think that you know i dare i say this fears of influence whether we like to talk about it or not that's the way the world you know works great powers expect to have security because they have enough power to create a security software and if you run an alliance like need to right up to the border of russia and also try to include a key country like ukraine that has always been very special to russia you're going to get pushback from russia in crimea in the dons boss etc and so i think some of these policies go way back all right i have to jump in nice guys biden but also i have to chime in here i have to jump in here we're going to we have to go to which we have to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on american

foreign policy stay with r.t. . if you. think it's a bit like it's a multi this edition you do this for the 1st one you do for us we're just going to stumble through the hundreds of. just to cut. you. off. a little. bit some of which are from. these critics one of the least most of them. because the. machine into life through the smear. filters is good news.

because it does look good still if you go for it easy. it's the same wrong. rowles just don't call. me old yet to shape our disdain comes to advocate and in the game equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. choose to look for common ground.

my crosstalk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing u.s. foreign policy. ok let's go back to los angeles we had the meeting in anchorage a few weeks ago with china on american soil and. secretary of state the high

commissioner for the the e.u. was in moscow and he got a dressing down from the foreign minister lavrov here i mean what's going on here i think scott kind of alluded to in the 1st part of the program major countries push back because they have the resources to do it and it looks like the by the administration and the atlanta system in general have been caught off guard but when people push back it's called aggression ok from the other side of the fence and were asserting our interests here we get this impression from administration after administration that no other country has interests you're not allowed to have interests and if you express it it's called aggression and that's not how diplomacy works and we were told by joe that there would be diplomacy under his administration i don't see any of it anywhere right now go ahead joe in los angeles . yeah i think you're i think you're right you know joe biden made a lot of promises throughout is that right his campaign but what we're seeing right

now a bunch of nations who or no longer afraid of the united states i think they've lost all respect for united states not being one of the biggest reason why is because dubai has always been soft on countries like china but try to press gresh into its countries like russia i think that you know we have a lot of age politicians who are sitting in a post cold war era neo still trying to or so states policies were at a time where you know the united states need to lead by example not trying to force example one of the countries so when you see other countries taking their interests . and poor countries with smaller economic development you know this becomes a huge problem for the united states and i'm like i said i think it's time for us to be relieved by example instead of leave by fortune or american interests on other countries you know scott one of the i think think that at the core of the problem of all of this is here is that you know the blinken said this world they still believe for some strange reason maybe they watch too much c.n.n.

is that the you know polar moment is still with this well that has is long long gone and countries like russia and china see the world as it is it's it's multi-polar and this is why we keep bumping into heads here is that there's different perceptions of how the world order is and is evolving here what do you say go ahead scott absolutely look you know the united states missed a historic opportunity in 19011902 we had in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the soviet union the end of the cold war you're george herbert walker bush no you know a new world order where the united states would have a subordinate say would not subordinate itself to the world but when work together with the world through the united nations to create you know something that was different from the bipolar existence that that was. it exists during the cold war but the united states was unwilling i would say an able to rid itself of the mantle

of a sole remaining superpower and so the decade of the 1990 s. was wasted opportunity thinking 911 the united states for the next 20 years bleeding itself to death morally and physically through this global war on terror we forgot about europe we forgot about dung truck came along and freed us from you know what this is this rules based international order that everybody speaks of he said no this is america only america goes alone now but i was trying to bring it back but you can't undo history the world has moved on it is not a eunuch or a world is not even a bipolar world is in multi-polar world and the united states is totally out of step and we lack any of the tools we lack the economic tools we lack the military tools like the diplomatic tools to deal with this new reality and so we're just floundering and i think that's what we're seeing with the by administration is american policy 'd floundering because we think we're dealing with you know playing

one rulebook one game play the world playing up a different rulebook a different game playing we therefore what we want it does not mesh with what the world desires it i mean you know i really like what scott had to say because it's so appropriate but what is it going to take to change that mindset is going to have to take a major conflict where i mean let's look at you know over the last 8 so instead of the cold war the united states is just punching down on countries that could not defend themselves very well now they want to take on china and russia simultaneously i mean you need a different mindset because all it does is lead to catastrophe and it's obvious for anyone watching what's going on in the world here but i look at the state department news releases i mean it again it they've they're living in 1902 go ahead i've been. yes i think that to some extent that's true i think the u.s. has to accept other countries having influence in their regions if you want to call

that a sphere of influence or what do you want whatever you want to call it to dress it up with a more modern term i think the political reality has us a still has a pretty good lead in military force but of course china is gaining and so is russia and so canonically china is gaining rapidly so you're right there are other centers of power there's also european germany and these type these countries that are economically. viable in japan etc india and so it is a multi-polar world and the united states going to have to recognize that now of course other empires like the british empire have they didn't they they still fran in france as well they still have a colonial mentality so i think it's going to take a while to be disabused of that for the u.s. and hopefully asako to be there is not going to be a conflict with russia or china because they both have nuclear weapons and i think that's the major constraint on anything like that but certainly there can be

a lots of opportunities for mistakes or miscalculations and you know you have the old problem of the rising power they have. conflicting with the status quo power in that you know in 16 cases since 1500 wars break it broken out you know in 12 out of the 16 cases now nuclear weapons makes a different story now it has. the oceans that separate the united states from both russia and china at least the european part of russia from the united states so i do have some hope that some of these geo political factors and geo strategic factors. the real ism will kick in at some point and i think biden at least as. he's an experienced foreign policy and but on the other hand been saying that can be a wag meyer being captive to you know old thinking and the

bureaucracy and that's what he's going to have to fight trump had to fight the opposite that he was he didn't really follow any of that and sometimes he got himself into trouble by just going doing whatever he wanted so you know it's one there's advantages and disadvantages to both approach but i think the united states really needs to get attention to that the world has changed and needs to. be rid of some of these alliances i'm pretty radical on that point i think they're outdated and you know they can drag us into wars that we don't want to be in both in east asia and in europe i believe it on many times on cross talk and you and i completely agree on that point here joe one of the things that's happening and it's something that again a part of the bipartisan consensus they won't really say it out loud but what they're doing is they want to create a global nato ok i mean it's really amazing how you know these nato officials say

china is an opportunity for nato i mean they actually say that kind of stuff here because they're looking for a mission and what they do what they can do is what they want to do is they really want to create a global nato because you then they don't need the united nations they are the legitimate power deciders in the world here and instead of learning from past mistakes because nato should be dismantled completely should have been a long time ago what they want to do is expand it and they're the major targets russia and china go ahead joe. yeah i think the global nato concept. is a far statement i don't think that's something that's ever going to happen i think we have to look at a new way of being able to expand our region of the country and i think that's true i'm best at the same thing that scientists do in the united states have been doing a very long time ago and that we've been quick question gresham towards other countries i think more of an investment type of opportunity to be able to expand

our reach in in certain countries that salute you help the united states when it comes to foreign policy when it comes to global policy as well those are those are just my thoughts i think it's on the turn away from the aggression start looking at more diplomatic. interests in different countries you know scott we're rapidly running out of time here one of the things that it's really curious i mean that all of this it has bled from the russia gate hoax this and to the towards russia but if we you know look at north stream to i mean what the by the administration is doing a continuation from the trump one is willing to punish russia and germany a nato ally all at the same time and you know and you know kind of thinking about what did joe just said here i mean yeah i think trade is a good thing that tends to cut down on conflict here but what about when you dictate to your partners who your other trading partners can be i mean that that is such a chauvinist stick way of dealing with your foreign policy nato is very important

germany's very important but you have to have the energy policy that we decide in washington and what is not decided in europe it is really ridiculous go ahead scott . first of all it's not about energy policy because if you if you take a look at what north stream too does it actually bring stability to europe to provide cheap gas to germany which think can disseminate it throughout europe and it links russia's long term economic viability to european stability you know russia you would get to play the gas weapon one time yeah one time russia would turn off the gas to europe and they'll be the last time they sold any gas to europe now would destroy the russian economy so this is ludicrous for the united states to to play this game this is about american domestic politics that's what all russia policy is it's not about real geopolitics it's not about the old global real politic it's about american domestic politics where we have been minimized russia

vladimir putin in our political leaders don't have the intellectual curiosity or the moral courage to stand up and say hey enough of this let's deal with the world as it is and as as we've tended to washington well i've been one of the things i worry and i worried about during this russia gate hoax is that it would bleed into policy and it is done a exactly that ok and that that is very destabilizing and everyone everyone on this side of the pond is reading and listening to what they or western leaders are saying about this and they're preparing and for good reason here i'm sorry guys we've run out of time many thanks to my guests in washington delmar and in-laws at a loss angeles and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t.c. in x. time remember crosstalk.

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