senior security and intelligence officials saying you know actually we'd like to go back. and what's more we want to go back and we suggest we go back without adding anything to it no questions including missile or other aspects into negotiation. j c p o if we want to go back to about israel we're safer at that time than it is now and these are senior officials former heads of mobs are talking about what. are going on the ground is coming up in a few and it's time for viewers in the u.s. it's news views hughson for u.k. viewers it's the cause a report states you toward lines in half an hour. i'm

after if you want you can have a lockdown edition of going underground after repeated attacks by only israel owned by britain the united states and the european union's nations against middle east targets from the suburbs of damascus to the persian gulf to the iranian province of it as economic and military violence rages during a global pandemic from latin america to africa to northern ireland to ukraine let's go straight to rome to speak to the former m i 6 agent and the founder and director of conflicts for him just a crook thanks so much for coming on you wouldn't think it's a here in britain where obviously people are grieving over the jew commander. but

just take us through some of the latest events i mean there's an attack on a nuclear plant an attack on the iranian sub his vessel in the red sea and yet lloyd austin biden's pentagon boss he's been in israel declaring. his absolute support for the israeli government. yes that's right i think what we're seeing is in fact there's something of a division within israel about what to do about this netanyahu has been stuck along on one track on iran by 20 years saying iran is only a few months away or 2 years away at most from a nuclear weapon and he's his policy is basically been one of containment compay forever containment not just containment but forever and that policy is not working and hasn't been working and israeli officials have started to question

it and for the 1st time we've heard explicit public pushback from senior security and intelligence officials saying you know actually we'd like to go back into the j.c. . and what's more we want to go back and we suggest we go back without adding anything to it no questions including missiles or other aspects into the negotiation. j p p o if we want to go back to that israel was safer at that time than it is now and these are senior officials former heads of must that i'm talking about it and i think it reflects something actually more substantial that's taken place in iran and that is that you know we've been talking all the time about the nuclear issue being a real issue but actually tourists around it suddenly transform because actually it's not the big one that has been the main issue it's all the small ones that little while the smart cruise missiles swarm drones stretching from yemen through

iraq iran syria and even to a certain extent into gaza this is much more of a real threat and a real that terrorists disrupt those missiles. hugely accurate swarm drones that very affected we saw in the attack on iran. last year where they were precisely what missiles what precisely thought. into their targets and so this is a different level of terrorists it's a new deterrence that iraq has is what i call the. oh oh there i'm going to tax which cause the good biggest spike in history i think on the oil price were from yemen iran very keen to distance itself from direct responsibility for that and if you are saying that former mossad people maybe you're in touch with the missing this then why the fact that mossad seem to be briefing presumably western

intelligence agencies in the past few days that they were responsible for this hack of the natanz nuclear facility in his van province in iran. oh this is you know really a reflection of the politicize ation increasing politicized station of intelligence everywhere whether it's in america or whether it's britain who all whether it's in israel. because you you had in the past people like me or the guy. who i used to know why he was not dead but i mean he was very top where netanyahu originally wanted to take action against iran i mean he just said no and so did the head of the security service and they said absolutely not it would be a great mistake strategic mistake for israel to attack iran like that and now also we have is your see cohen as you head. who's

a great fan of netanyahu and you know is someone who wants to make his career out of tackling iran become an entry probably to put his hat in the ring to be prime minister of israel one day but it's basically a very politicized intelligence because there's been saying all along iran is on the brink of internal implosion and it's collapsing its economy is almost in grew in and we all know now that's not true it's not the case and in fact now. iran is moving into a new europe of cooperation 1st 4 with the china but also within russia not just on trade but on training intelligence sharing security issues joint exercises in a really a very big change taking place that we have we have made a post rex a china deal here in the u.k. either thing properly just because because this hasn't obviously been covered in

the nation media at all. some people might be asking you what do you mean there's a been a massive trade deal between and the people's republic and the islamic republic. well after the talks that took place in anchorage. who which you were a call a little earlier ago when the americans and the chinese sort of exchanged. criticisms each other quite vociferously. the secretary of state was there to talk to them about their failings and shortly after that the chinese foreign minister came to karen and he signed. an a memorandum of understanding a trade deal reputedly they don't disclose again tales of the and ongoing aspect reputedly between $400600000000.00. a big really 1000000000 dollars sorry not 1000000000000000 dollars i mean big and this is something very important to china because what we're seeing is that this is going to find

a really big shift in in the whole of the middle east of. greater eurasia it is about opening up the east west trade groups across the north of the middle east directly into europe the north south route which also passes through iran and goes down to the south that might by parcel with rowell lines into pakistan looking pakistan into the road and belts. a whole exercise in expanding trade through infrastructure through a pipeline through real way lines very soon will be a 4th line or rail line going straight from machine shown province in china through to europe at the moment it's not high speed but soon it'll be high speed that'll cut the costs of transport are and will make it cheaper than actually

using container ships for the transportation this part of the exercise in the old expression of actually moving away from the rim a mere maritime. states on the atlantic and around the world which is where america and britain strengthens and to focus on a land based network from europe right through to china which of the 8 the need for all these choke points to pass through the choke points which basically the west mostly control bob amanda almost straight all of these trades which they control by the west for moving and aegean oil and gas and cargo and to turn it into an whole network and of course when you look at that network either way if you look at it east west china europe north south russia us down to the open waters in the south the persian gulf iran is right

plum center in both and has been i mean since the last time still gross largely sort of evaporated in the 1500s but it was always a potion traders who were in come on of those trade routes really in the centuries up to the 1500s when they went into so i mean they're really crucial to china crucial to to to russia not only in trade but in security and of course china is expecting to have the return which is going to be iranian oil that's what it wants security of energy. and i think they've obviously had to tiptoe over the sanctions and 3rd party sanctions elements of the current nato nation regiment. we've actually been hearing about babel manned straits problems in the context of here in eritrea bizarrely but them given that you you personally have been involved

in conflict resolution across the tables from conflicting parties. just before we get back to what we're talking about what do you do what did you make of that anchorage meeting when the chinese finally came out on the world stage as it were and read the riot act to joe biden's administration about actions on human rights. i think we'll look back on it in a few years time as a real turning point in history it really surprises me in a way because through chinese of being very cautious i mean i talked to chinese officials and they've been always very cautious and very cautious about what they said but i mean what was most significant after that was then was a very important strategic meeting between the chinese foreign minister him about 2 days after the anchorage talks and mr lavrov the russian foreign minister in which they discussed the yet closer arrangement between the 2

a strategic partnership association between the 2 countries but after that the chinese foreign minister went to saudi arabia and terra and in terran he used language which went on accustomed to hearing he recommended to the middle east that they throw all 3 yoke of western heads germany including on civil rights and other issues. only they also told them to prize sovereignty autonomy and not to love pressures from the west to influence their policy i mean this is this is the sort of language that used to come from the resistance front it was very striking to hear this coming from a chinese foreign minister and i think this does therefore that anchorage the meeting with loughborough and then the visit to the middle east marks

a real turning point in terms of chinese position china also said it wants and nonproliferation for the entire middle east not just for iraq by implication including israel which of course would be an estimate of the united states in that way and he called for. you said very clearly that it was quite wrong that we should all use our efforts against western countries trying to pressure iran through sanctions and that they should be removed from it and then iran should be able to return to some agreement on nuclear issues in the context of a completely new crisis of the middle east. why drag things through the chinese foreign minister to say well obviously israel very unclear about nuclear weapons we want to speak to mordechai vanunu he's not allowed to speak to to the press. more

from the founder of complex form after this break. does the biden foreign policy differ from that of trumps at this point not really however there is one difference trumpet challenge the bipartisan consensus in failed biden on the other hand appears happy to oblige the interim agency consensus is weak again. seems wrong. just don't. get to shape out. and engage with equals betrayal.

when something find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. welcome back i'm still with alistair cooke former m i 6 agent and the founder and director of conflicts for to avoid the sounding like we television station of choice of. being and allowed to be a pooty and that could also mean that china was rattled other 3 stakes in this game that china and russia are weary of james jeffrey the former ambassador to syria told p.b.s. in the past few days al-qaeda is a sin syria is an asset of the united states also there is israel this ironclad guarantee given in the past few days by biden's pentagon boss and and of course there are the troops on the air ukraine russia border

and the threat by the by did ministration of retaliation military retaliation resumed against russia. or yes i think as a row i really saw it no sense so. if you like supremacy or anything in the 1st it was before the anchorage talks. the chinese were still hoping that could be a moment a modus vivendi achieved by the ministration i think it was at the anchorage and what led up to anchorage all the threats than the new sanctions that were imposed and the statements coming out of the us and convinced them that there was a knowledge there are preparing and rush to i think for the sense that the opening of a clash sumps will between the united states and russia china and iran is almost inevitable and that this is something that is going to be the deciding the decisive moment in the future of geopolitics global geopolitics really of entry i'm

not talking necessarily about a military war but i'm talking about a full spectrum crypto war financial war economic war trade war all of these things combine information war particularly demonizing china demonizing russia the sort of mobilize they should call it 6 element of it is that is very crucial in all of this and these states are really and particularly putin and russia are very concerned that unless. it is very carefully handled this could slip into some sort of escalation which would be very dangerous. for everybody you mentioned ukraine i mean that is. an area that is an issue which could blow up very easily we still don't know what's going to happen but the reports that cargo planes

arriving from the united states we don't know whether they carry weapons but very likely they do the russians got troops across or rather the border bella russa's put it. the russians are doing a red in this case the butchery there are in power arming against the possibility that. will launch some sort of. attack us and then what would happen if there's any response from russia i mean nato would not your right to stage the euro probably would. be very easily break. i'm not sure what turkey would do and in fairness to the nato they too grouping i just got to give a quick sidebar to this in case people think i'm speaking to you from london you're in rome and we haven't mentioned the european union at all and here we are talking about the future of the 21st century what is going on in the european union i mean

syria resolved are all in the eastern mediterranean ukraine is the largest country in europe and we have a we have the european union's jews of borel's de facto foreign minister saying in a blog we will not stop imposing economic sanctions on syria there will be no normalization of any level we will never support reconstruction efforts that learn every european union thought of the state oriented media talking about the need for . defense against vladimir putin and she jinping. well i think syria is something that the the european union has sort of taken on not so much as a strategic interest but is about a reflection on the temp by the european union to highlight european values on human rights and other issues and as part of the ship we're seeing whereby. the

europe is trying to do redefine itself stroh's and to redefine itself with strategic autonomy and that strategic autonomy is to be defined by european civilization values unfortunately it comes just at the point where really the whole idea of universal human balance is rejected by most of the grow as you no longer appropriate and they say you know we all have our other supplies in. chinese they are civilization values are a harmony and community not individuals and not price and so it's quite difficult so they are they will make an effort yes on syria it will be like that ukraine is a much more problematic for the european union but i mean basically the european union has almost 0 or ations with russia now it's gone i mean it was not so long ago 10 years ago when it was thought in the europe and elsewhere that there would

be a great europe stretching from brought it. down to to lisbon and that if europe if russia was not part of the european union it would share everything but institution since i think prodi at one stage mentioned and all of that has collapsed and now they're off. lever off the foreign minister since there are almost no relationships we have no relations with the institutions with brussels with the european union with. certain member states maybe but it's a very serious position for europe being caught between these 2 big powers who are rivals united states was china russia are on the other europe's biggest trading partner is not china not the united states it was a taker by that because of the sword and belt that i was describing with traders

and trucks coming with goods from china to europe the price of the earth and so we are. europe is in a very difficult position of trying to sort of. position itself and it needs of course investment and it needs trade ok well and we think we can i just say if we discount what comes out the b.b.c. about syria and us stations and every nato nation really. one might argue that a syrian family maybe on the outskirts of a glib is going to be thinking you know we have a 70 percent extreme poverty in syria 60 percent unemployment. they reported the rebranding of isis and al-qaeda are in syria to kick off another war in syria it couldn't come too soon help from powers like china

and russia and this with iran even while why are they being so-so. not trying to not being slow i mean but the fact is that the united states and europe has sanctioned any effort to reconstruct syria and i mean let's be clear we're not talking about reconstructing the government all the state such we're talking about ordering humanitarian reconstruction houses help you know with water supplies electricity is all that is being sanctioned by western states and the situation of ordinary syrians is deplorable it's a really i mean beyond bad it's there and terrible and all. but neither russian where our military to to to simply rebuild syria if you rebuilt syria i mean the next thing you see will be a tomahawk missile or a missile coming from somewhere we know not well which will destroy that structure

. the united states policy remains that they want to see and it's got stronger. by because you have people i mean if you ask me about someone like lincoln of course he was an odds with biden when he was vice press because he said there should be more done to get rid of more pressure more influence from your hardest to get rid of it must be. very very hard in washington on it but national security adviser jake sullivan is known for e-mailing clinton hillary clinton back in 22 of it al qaeda is on our side in syria and biden acknowledged that al-qaeda was in alliance with the united states of the us and our allies and here we are just as it is being on the show we went to damascus and he said they're going to be elections this year presumably they can be no elections while the european union.

well i don't know if they committing murder by these sanctions on syrian people and the united states continues to threaten syria and israel bombs damascus as it has in the muslim to do. yes i mean we do have. a extraordinary bad situation with turkey sponsoring jihadists in italy the maybe 2 or 3000000 people under the control of al qaida or head choppers if you like that i mean they're not very pleasant people to talk and then you have the northeast inside. turkey supporting a kurdish and america's 40 a sort of kurdish more autonomy and then you have the rest of the population most of the urban population but i think the will be elections held or it's possible to be held and they will be held in embassies outside syria who are those who are

refugees if they're allowed i mean moved when they held elections for i think i'm here to know something and in lebanon there were huge queues of syrians floating the embassy in beirut i don't know whether lebanon were allowed to do that i don't know whether they'll be allowed to hold it in other places it won't be it'll be a very imperfect election and of course people who view it with very different lenses and others will say it's a farce. and others say let's see how it goes and let's look at the sort of turnout took place within syria the turnout and who they voted for in outside syria yes and he said there will be more hotly disputed no one will accept it at all because i mean the president always there will be multiple candidates and was never an easy political parties are under sanctions as well from the european union and britain now it's actually 75 years since the independence of syria on

saturday would have more goes through your mind about how journalists fail to see blowback after what we saw in afghanistan after what we see saw in. is directly that they don't realize the danger is over as you call them head job is coming to your of after this what seems to be continued ruffled london washington support for what could have rough of months in washington. well i remember some time ago a lot of that broke out going on a main channel on television in the u.k. and i said you know what you're seeing here is a concerted attempt to regime change in law using jadis tool using extreme sunni radicals to bring this about and i was told oh well you know how do you not telling me the financial times is wrong that the

economist chris wrong and the b.b.c. is wrong when they show these videos all the time and i said yes that is the case they are all these men through these videos a lot of it use of fake reviews has been and i think you had it exposed in britain about the huge effort that has bee create a new commission. misinformation. amongst certain institutions funded by the british foreign office to present syria or was possible like it's very hot i mean. for all of your viewers it's impossible really to get to the bottom of the truth about syria it's just so much it the water is so minded the details are so much it it's a terrible eye so really indictment of the west and all of us i mean what's

happening because it's the syrian people it's not a you know it's not overthrow the government it's the syrian people who live in dire conditions and suffer terrible. infringements of every kind. thank you that's all for those love television going underground will be back on saturday 60 years to the day of the bay of pigs invasion when washington tried to destroy cuban revolution was regarded health care as a fundamental human right for one of us deaths per capita $45.00 here in britain that it was even touch but will also show you. the world is driven by shaped by one person.

thinks. we dare to ask. protests in minnesota enter a 4th law is following the shooting of dante of roy during a traffic stop. president biden promises the withdrawal of u.s. troops from about to start last september 11th the 20 yard of us forgot on 11 attacks pushing back a deal but it's not about that such a may 1st deadline but it's a group puzzle but he warned this crew.