praying for heating up something unexpected happened president biden picked up the phone and placed a direct call to vladimir putin what's on the line here while to discuss and now joined by you kenny bush and kit retired lieutenant general of the russian army and chairman of the board at the p.r. center and also comes mr brzezinski it's always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for climbing the time thank you and son for inviting me now i heard once from my ass high ranking russian general that it is a job of where responsible military command to not ever be surprised to be cognizant of any outcomes and yet i think there are very few people in must be including among your former colleagues at the ministry of defense who weren't taken aback by biden reaching out to him directly i wonder what were your initial thoughts when you heard the news 1st of all 'd i don't overestimate the quote i don't think

that. the present circumstances marie can expect some major changes major improvement of our relations i think that may be american leadership recognize that. the situation may go too far because because my. belief that any time from beijing well 1st of all if. barack military confrontation war between ukraine and russia starts i doubt that the u.s. . the united states will send their service member their forces to assist chris or course they will be sanctions them as aggression leading russia but for ukraine there will be disasters of course of course ukrainian army is not be an army of 2014 but still be. the number of aircraft that everest

of course security of russian forces aren't. well if if because there may be accidents because i'm sure they have american advisors maybe still there or already there or maybe it will be if they're eve. direct military confrontation starts in this case i do not exclude the possibility that they will be better equipped for a patient in the us russian forces and not get i can ask you something because there there are lots of speculations here in russia not asked you will cool may be behind this recent escalation of tensions whether it was the american idea or the ukrainian idea what's your take well 1st of all i don't think that anything may happen in ukraine without the us consent especially especially this because it all

started early february ran our intelligence well i know this. well the movement of as she loans because of it every day out there initially and intensified or even started and intensified so a bit. i don't think that. this concentration of forces is not a concentration by the way 4000 men in the one share is not the concentration but of course our our troops in the western and southern military districts then know demo in good shape they have been in good shape for the last. 67 years by the way last summer a lot some are. when it was previous administration even the same area trying to convince other member western military districts there was also

a period or a fight in a combat training exercises and the concentration was about 150000 people by the way nobody was to concerned about that then yeah more than more than 500 of them helicopters more than 20000 pieces of equipment in the nobody cared you know mr bush didn't get wasn't different administrations baghdad with different views or both in russia and of ukraine speaking of which i have over the last couple of weeks president selenski out of ukraine and he's officials have stopped that guy calls for that mission into nato they have never talk of talking about that so much and i wonder if this conflict is still about don't cost and it's a place where it belongs or whether it's more about the rest of your brain and whether it belongs on that made us umbrella. i think you're right it's not on the. bus of course the bus is the most evident place where the the and the dead because

the flip be real conflict may start but i. would. train here by the way trade me is more dangerous it's much more dangerous because it's not just the mother recognized the but they have come against republicans it's russian federation so if there isn't trouble cation in trade me and their response will be much more severe both don't see. that. may 'd involve directly made the most remote not exactly americans but then. why is there so crazy here and black siri china's much more much more dangerous when i ask one question about don't ask because whatever the ukrainian leadership. it's commitment to ukraine's territorial integrity it's pretty obvious to everybody that they don't need one boss at least

at this point they don't want it to be reintegrated into ukraine because it's very expensive canonically it's very risky politically etc i wonder if this recent round of tensions could be at least in part motivated by the landscape calculation of actually losing don't box and gaining nato membership at the same time when that have solved many of these problems in just want to go. well maybe you are right of course 'd this is this possibility cannot be excluded although i am very skeptical about this nato made the membership or invitation made because 1st of all they cannot swallow ukraine to be a country of at least 7000000 people ruined economy militarily not so attractive by the way so.

remember bucharest 2008 when the trade bill in georgia smaller countries. still be because there's a position of the europeans and i think them today europeans will that was the best way and it's already rhetoric of the us administration now it's not that offensive as it was in europe because some of them have you know remember crumbling their eyes just should furious running around that they will say in bucharest in b.c. there really is to invite ukraine and georgia now i'm going back to that call and pretend by them you mentioned that be your brain and what's happening in ukraine might have played a role in. promoting that outreach from bottoms do you think that's a call that the fact of it having taken place a potential summit that was discussed between president biden d think you know have any effect on the ukrainian front do you can recruit extract

from cooling down there think if if. a settlement really pates place and not in the forseeable future but as you know blinking yesterday mentioned in the coming weeks i do not exclude that possibility or course will definitely be made defuse the situation with him though he may be convincing in explaining the situation of explaining russian motivation moreover americans know that i'm like you create or i'd like to lance here who doesn't control everything in the bus and mum all the forces in the bus with him controls everything and if he says the bye then ok i don't go he won't but that apart from putting having out more control of the events i think he's also more straightforward that coles things by. that means various ukrainians as far as i can

tell are trying to essentially be in a position of a tail dragging the dog because if they are indeed try trying to game and made a membership they're essentially trying to marry the united states in to shop and you know crossing on it with all the suppose it's accurate prices that ukraine gets from the united states and some of the completely right and as far as i understand americans know that the bit that the ukraine would like to would like to well do put americans in a very awkward situation either you or you help us know they're talking about us bad nuclear weapons it's a made matter for the americans for the united states but back to the ukrainians. i mean that some talk of a bit of a bit. position the fissionables completely irresponsible complete play sponsors not the topic and protected by them came on the shelves of another far last

publicized phone call based on between big chiefs of staff of the russian and the american army and from what i heard from my sources it was a very polluted pro long and detailed discussion do you think there is any connection between these 2 phone calls for of course it's their right to mention because they're american. and joint chiefs. chairman of the joint chiefs of staff here moves that the 1st don't. you know we have your eyes and love and you know is that if he wants to know. the information from the from the original source. of your estimate and your estimate i think he explained everything he explained about the training period i'm sure and he explained maybe if the book was on the stand that maybe there is sort of a warning to be a premiums be careful because we're not there but we have. but we have close

now close to and sadly why because i mean under normal circumstances it would be diplomats who would be holding those talks but we are finding ourselves in a position when russia has a rate recalled its ambassador from. washington after outrageous statements by joe biden calling the president of this country a killer. we know that the foreign ministry a few days ago the russian foreign minister came out with a statement saying that they consider an america an adversary not just a partner i mean. on the top of that the military to military contact are sensually the only line of contact the only lot 0 of communication between our countries what exactly does it say to you when basic military people and doing the job of the diplomats is that a sign of what. i would say the military people are doing the jobs of the people

events no it was a no talking at all yes people there just is just exchange of information that just sure that you're actually going to explain to he is going to be part of what russia is actually doing it will treasury is actually meaning and when i say that we are close by the u.s. mint maybe maybe he said ok general we don't want war but if you create him we'll start offensive from the people don't bust even your respective of the federal government see somebody 1000 people with russian best course we have commitments to. give support to defend those people we'll respond and maybe he will explain it here explain who he's going to bring in what way russia will disappoint. and they said the end i think that was. that was taken seriously and i'm absolutely sure by the joint chiefs and maybe there was that and the result when they canceled the. passage you know there was absolutely lexia it would

be some sort of diffusion of situation by the ukrainians thought it although could be shelling you know started talking that we are not going through any offensive and not going to solve these issues by milcher me and so i did talk a bit there is already it is not it is not a bit aggressive well mr brzezinski we have to take a very short break right now but we will be back in just a few moments states and. the world is driven by a drunk. person. who

dares thinks. we dare to ask.

welcome back to wilder part 3 of you gave me was insecure chairman of the board of the peer center here in moscow mr bush and before the break started our conversation about the so-called and putin and biden and it's interesting that the american president and that whole goal xpress his intentions his country's intentions you have quote stable and predictable relationship with russia and there wonder what does stable and predictable mean in this day and age when the 2 countries are diametrically opposed on how they see the world order and their respective places in it. well it's very difficult for me to say what the united states president means when he says that united states

one wants stable and predictable relations me personally i don't believe in such relations as american presidents want wants them to be on the one hand we got very where we need on down because we'll press your we demo is your we insult you and do everything we want i don't believe in such insight she said surely americans call it walking and chewing gum yes yes i do not believe in this working chewing gum i do not believe that such essential nations may be stable no i am sure they will well it's interesting because as the officials on both sides started preparing this potential summit we are also hearing american media reports about a new round of sanctions that mr ation is considering including some restrictions against russia so far and dad as well as the expulsions of the russian diplomats i

wonder how far in. terms of sanctions that americans. of course it go before the idea of time it becomes a job it would be for what the russians cannot sustain it anymore oh well you see it seems to me that well as one of my granda says in. the russian government told me that. russian story is. tired to come and be in the packages of sanctions there are more than 7 there weren't $75.00. or they can be already know the new package of sound sense or will be amounts maybe a little bit about expanding growth and diplomats sanctioning. when there are going to zation. some number of people and then again our summary of the sun

sanctions about our summer and that. of course there will be there will be a response and as far as it was reported by 0 press yesterday you should offer assistance to the president he summoned the u.s. ambassador and warrant that if there are new sanctions the response will be. will definitely be well aaron that increase thinking we cannot i mean this as russians we cannot that are for their you know response because. first of all i mean we have know that no instruments of leverage and got american story and that i mean that this is this is the most dangerous dangerous and damaging are the proposed new sanctions. bill and if that happens to pass do you think putin will have in and after him hence you sort of accept and towards negotiations i mean at the end the day they do isn't it ultimately

a task what he chooses whether it's national pride or you know some some potential some promise although. probably not to dialogue with the united states well i'm sure that president putin wants pregnant i think but where where are the limits of his passion and he is. well and his desire to. somehow somehow re prayer the the the relations between our countries i don't know because the administration says that. their answer was very very very very very delicate they would say that if for the president but he said well here's the response will be. so the response. of the american your sanctions their response will be. whether off the bat be

meeting or summit based place i'm not that's for the president to decide to shout i've heard from some a russian diplomats from some russian officials that in the past while and i merican some russians were engaged in sound sort of negotiations i let say on on and there were a new nuclear issue mosco was always sort of trying to sell its influence on or offer its influence on issues that are of interest to americans rather than straightforwardly pursuing its own if that summit indeed takes place do you think russia's negro or shading approach don't change or we will still be sort of try to accommodate because i was walking and cheering because i don't see so i think that . if something bates plays it will be i think we can build try to. really explain what the relations really explain maybe he

will say one more go make a u.s. president believe for believe that there was no no russian if they feel it's because of this cyber interference. you know the attribution is the most is the most difficult issue they blame. our military intelligence i cannot exclude everything but they don't get beyond say intelligence and is still involved in bin american elections previous or. over the last year mr brzezinski isn't really about trying to explain to them erica because i was just reading this recent book by william burns a former deputy secretary our state former american ambassador to russia and he makes it pretty clear that communication has never been an issue of its. the russians and americans the russians have always communicated that position pretty clearly but that americans it sure that just chose to ignore those explanations

isn't really about you know explaining your point of view i rather be beings not what you try to communicate well that's a pity because you see if you accuse anybody especially if you're pews a state. of some just violations but accused of crimes you're going to present the evidence you're going to present as they say card then not just. reference that we know it was the best american but we know what we're doing trust us we know our intelligence says that there was a few months it's like the brits made their way screwball case no evidence not so it whatsoever well still highly likely russia is. is the bully this is and we appear united states but it can't play devil's advocate

here because the united states has such an overwhelming get back to when it costs you internet and digital technologies when it makes sense for russia to develop some offensive cyber capabilities and steal out its partners know that if you know . some tools and its pockets because at the end of the day we are all well memorable to the american ah. hour in cyberspace into americans want to see just off to war they can possibly do that so rather than you know blaming each other we're going to make a better sense to look sad some sort of rules in cyberspace and think we've got to be can all play by them fully agree fully agree any bets what we can offer to. buy do we have a year ago let's sit down have. some work out some rules some rules over here in cyberspace because well it's recognise that russian. the best in the

book by the way well the russian intelligence officer is let's be honest with our audience they also have pretty good acts towards us and there is a very well but. well i shouldn't say i mean that if they didn't that would be entertaining i do not see any reasons why a russian military intelligence well fears of their elections or trying to interfere in is one thing but having the capacity to change or fear is another. americans also have the capacity to end the fear that yes a bit always that they fear but their logic is that we have to fear to make you good to make you better if you have to fear to make us worse i know this logic but it's good it's good for you and just for kitchen talk but not for state to state really since that's my strong belief well in any case the. plants for our

bilateral summit in the 3rd country are on the cards and i don't know about you but it sounds to me back you the times of cold war when let's say gorbachev and reagan would meet and ricky have a coffee or a shelf and counted it with me in here and then trying to appraise and then you could hear pocalypse do you think these kinds of comparisons historic comparisons applicable here because normally speaking of these danish leaders. would meet each other's countries they would not seek at a neutral territory but here we are again looking for a country that would provide a neutral ground. absolutely i fully agree that historical peril is complete about 100 percent because a mono. saying bad situation no worse than they were in the period of reagan or in the period of. i think her chef canada that was i have to the cuban missile crisis and the cuban missile we're going to listen we have no old

soon or. maybe very close but very close very close because because in the incident. i didn't say that i just want to finish then i strongly believe that any military confrontation between the united states and russia could not become so can not become top the escalation is even and collision nobody can afford to heat their bets up and that's obvious so either you've got to get my soul to my planes well shut down my warships well drown but ok i agree let's stop it no that won't be deed but it will be escalation best so a bit better. too should be understandable now i want to specifically ask you about this latest summit and the latest heroism the latest on that gorbachev and

reagan in the great cabinet because. it was notable on several grounds they didn't signing the major documents but that meeting was a ritual a big crowd were at the end of the cold war which was celebrated in the west that primarily because of the collapse of the soviet union that was a major i think for them and a major positive thing for them about this summit not do you think now the americans are mentally emotionally ready to go. deal with russia as it is why do you think they're still led by this idea that they can change a russia that liking and that russia that they know right now will sooner or later collapse and they can you know klein you know better partner in its ways you see. their mystique is there. as well at least i cannot speak for the for the whole american for the american public as a whole but this for their leadership especially. the president ministration

leadership they saw their belief. be in big or and we're seeing president who. has everything will change be cheech all for them it will be awkward. to change russia and that's their mistake. i'm sure about. well mr brzezinski it's always a great pleasure talking to you we have to get there but thank you very much for sharing a thank you thank you it's not breaking for watching hope to see you again next week here i don't want a part. time

use but i can support this if you. use the 1st one of the last because can stomach in the. hundreds. at your seriously do. you think it was national catholic. if you talk a little. bit some of which are from reforms. we've. screwed these critics one off the list with the proof because there's been. a shooting into why for the smear. both of you new moves.

to post someone. because of the folks telling you to wait for the 88. states not looking to kick off the cycle drugs and its coalition in conflict with russia. retaliation for washington imposing restrictions on russia and the. has been a week of unrest in the state of minnesota anger over the police killing of don't tehran shows no sign.