if kenny bush and skip the retired lieutenant general of the russian army and chairman of the board at the p.r. center and also comes mr brzezinski it's always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for climbing the time thank you and son for inviting me now i heard once from matt high ranking russian general that it is a job of where responsible military command it cannot ever be surprised to be cognizant of any outcomes and yet i think there are very few people in most concluding among your former colleagues at the ministry of defense who weren't taken aback by biden reaching out to greet him directly i wonder what were your initial thoughts when you heard the news 1st of all i don't overestimate the call i don't think that you know at the present circumstances marie and i expect some major changes major improvement of our relations i think that may be an american

leadership recognize that. the situation may go too far because because. i strongly believe that if it comes from beijing well 1st of all if. direct military confrontation war between ukraine and russia starts i doubt that the u.s. . the united states will send their service member their forces to assist chris or course they will be sanctions them as in russia isolating russia but for ukraine there will be disasters of course of course ukrainian army is not be an army of 2014 but still. be a member of their craft that everest of course the security of russian forces aren't. well if if because there may be

accidents because i'm sure they have american advisers maybe still there or already there or maybe it will be their eve. direct military confrontation starts in this case i do not exclude the possibility that there will be barack confrontation between the us russian forces and not get i can ask you something because there there are lots of speculations here in russia not asked you will cool may be behind this recent escalation of tensions whether it was the american idea or the ukrainian idea what's your take well 1st of all i don't think that anything may happen in ukraine without the us consent especially especially this because it all started early february when our intelligence well i know this.

well the movement of loans with. every day out there in the shelling intensified or even started and intensified so a bit. i don't think that. this concentration of forces is not a concentration by the way 4000 men in the one share is not the concentration but of course our our troops in the western and southern military districts then know demo in good shape they have been in good shape for the last. 67 years by the way last summer a lot some are. when it was previous administration and even the same area trying to convince other members westminister districts there was also a period on for the final combat training exercises and the concentration was about 150000 people by the way nobody was to concerned about that back then yeah more

than more than 500 craft and helicopters more than 20000 pieces of equipment among nobody cared you know mr bush's case wasn't different administrations baghdad with different views or both in russia and ukraine speaking of which i have over the last couple of weeks president selenski of ukraine and he's officials have stopped that dive calls for that mission into nato they have never talk of talking about that so much and i wonder if this conflict is still about don't boss and its place the way it belongs or whether it's more about the rest of your brain and whether it belongs on that made us umbrella. i think you're right it's not on the. bus of course the bus is the most evident place where the the and the because let's be real conflict may start but i. would. be trying here by the way trade me is more dangerous it's much more dangerous because it's

not just the mother recognized the that has come against republicans it's russian federation so if there isn't trouble creation in trade me in their response will be much more severe both on land don't see. that. may may 'd involve directly made the most remote not exactly americans but then. why is there so crazy here and black siri china's much more much more dangerous when i ask one question about don't ask because whatever the crimean leadership. it's commitment to ukraine's territorial integrity it's pretty obvious to everybody that they don't need them boss at least at this point they don't want it to be reintegrated into ukraine because it's very expensive canonically it's very risky politically etc i wonder if this

recent round of tensions could be at least in part motivated by the man's calculation of actually losing don't box and gaining nato membership at the same time when that have solved many of these problems in just want to go. well maybe you are right of course 'd this is this possibility cannot be excluded although i am very skeptical about this nato made the membership or invitation to meet them because 1st of all they cannot swallow ukraine too big a country of at least 7000000 people ruined economy militarily not so attractive by the way so. remember bucharest 2008 when trying to invade georgia smaller countries. still be because there's

a position of the europeans and i think them today europeans will that was that's why they and historic rhetoric of the us administration now is not that offensive as it was in europe because some of them have no remember combat in their eyes just should furious running around but they will say in bucharest in b.c. there really is to invite ukraine and georgia now going back to that call and pretend by them you mentioned that the your brain and what's happening in ukraine must have played a role in prompting that outrage from bottoms do you think that's a call that the fact of it having taken place a potential summit that was discussed between president biden do you think you know have any effect on the ukrainian front do you can recruit expect some cooling down there i think if if. a settlement really pates place

and not in the forseeable future but. no blinking yes the dimension in the coming weeks i do not exclude that possibility or course will definitely be made defuse the situation with him though he may be convincing in explaining the situation of explaining russian motivation moreover americans know i'm like you create or i'd like to lance here who doesn't control everything in the bus and not all the forces in the bus with him controls everything and if he says the bye then ok i don't go he won't but that apart from putting having out more control of the events i think he's also more straightforward about goals things by . that means various ukrainians as far as i can tell are trying to essentially be in a position of a tail dragging the dog because if they are indeed try trying to game and made

a membership they're essentially trying to marry the united states in to shop and you know crossing on it with all the suppose it's accurate prices that ukraine gets from the united states and suddenly you're completely right and as far as i understand americans know that the bit that the ukraine would like to would like to well do put americans in a very awkward situation either you or you help us know they're talking about us bad nuclear weapons it's a made matter for the americans for the united states but the ukrainians. yeah i mean that some talk of a bit of bit a very high position the fissionables completely irresponsible completely plays sponsors not the top in pretended by them came on the shelves of another fire last publicized phone call based on between big chiefs of staff of the russian and the american army and from what i heard from my sources it was

a very polluted pro long and detailed discussion do you think there is any connection between these 2 phone calls for of course it's their right to mention because they're american. and joint chiefs. chairman of the joint chiefs of staff here knows that the 1st don't. you know we have your eyes and love and you know is that if he wants to know. the information from the from the original source. of your estimate and your estimates i think he explained everything he explained about the training period i'm sure and he explained maybe if the book was on the stand that maybe that sort of warning will be of koreans be careful because we're we are not there but we are. but we have close now close to you and sadly why because i mean under normal circumstances it would be diplomats who would be

holding those talks but we are finding ourselves in a position when russia has a rate recalled its ambassador from. washington after outrageous statements by joe biden calling the president this country a killer. we know that the foreign ministry a few days ago the russian foreign minister came out with a statement saying that they consider an america an adversary not just a partner i mean. on the top of that the military to military contact are sensually the only line of contact the only lot of communication between our countries what exactly does it say to you when basic military people and doing the job of the diplomats is that a sign of what. i would say the military people are doing the jobs of the people events no it was a no talking at all yes people there just is just exchange of information that just sure that you're actually going to explain who he is going to be part of what

russia is actually doing it will treasury is actually meeting and when i say that we are close by the u.s. mint maybe maybe he said ok general we don't want war but if you create eons we'll start offensive from the people don't bust even your respective of the federal government see somebody 1000 people with russian best course we have commitments to. give support to defend those people we'll respond. and maybe he will explain he explain who he's going to part in what way russia would respond. and they said the end i think that was. that was taken seriously i am absolutely sure by the joint chiefs and maybe there was the result when they canceled the. passage of well there was absolutely plexi here will be some sort of diffusion of situation where the ukrainians will stop it although it will be

shelling you know started talking that we are not going to any offensive and not going. to solve this issue right milcher me and so there is no better there is already it is not better it is now but at rest well mr brzezinski we have to take a very short break right now but it will be back in just a few moments. on. the industry prefers to millions of you will you know the. daily beast is. all about making money and profits some of the corporations international markets import export do you imagine the number of chronic diseases that are out in every

community today it is not due to new viruses own new microbes that's not true so it is due to one time let's say that no i can say he though that my mental discipline command of the sort of muscles i'm really sick even they could only come in to see them to decide. if the same food industry is successful it will create more jobs will create more value added it will create more close. so i don't see why you shouldn't also fight for the interest something into st mark's of the tree of origination we want tribulation i was he just believes we can be very serious trinity just like. welcome back to walter part 3 of you gave me was insecure chairman of the board of

the peer center here in moscow mr bush and before the break we asked how did our conversation about the so-called that's been proven and by then and it's interesting that the american president in that whole goal extra asked his intentions his country's intentions you have quote stable and predictable relationship with russia and i wonder what does stable and predictable mean in this day and age when the 2 countries are diametrically opposed on how they see the world or their and their respective places in it. well it's very difficult for me to say what the united states president means when he says that united states won once stable and predictable relations me personally i don't believe in such relations as american presidents want wants them to be on the one hand we got very where we need on down because we don't press your we definitely as

your we insult you and do everything we want i don't believe in such insight she said surely americans call it walking and chewing gum yes yes i do not believe in this working chewing gum i do not believe that such essential nations may be stable no i am sure they will well it's interesting because as the officials on both sides started preparing this potential summit we are also hearing american media reports about a new round of sanctions that mr ation is considering including some restrictions against russia so far and dad as well as the expulsions of the russian diplomats i wonder how far in. terms of sanctions the americans. of course it go before the idea of time it becomes a job it would be for what the russians cannot sustain it anymore oh well you see

it seems to me that well as one of my granda says in. the russian government told 'd me that. russian story is. tired to come and be in the packages of sanctions there are more than 7 there were and $75.00. or they have been already know the new package of sound since or will be announced maybe late that will be about expanding growth and diplomats sanctioning. when there are going to zation. some number of people and then again our summary of some sanctions about our summer and that. of course there will be there will be a response and as far as it was reported by 0 press yesterday you should offer assistance to the president he summoned the u.s. ambassador and warrant that if there are new sanctions the response will be. will

definitely be well as that increase thinking we cannot i mean this as russians we cannot that are for their response because. first of all i mean we have know that no instruments of leverage and got american story and that i mean that this is this is the most dangerous dangerous and damaging are the. proposed new sanctions. bill and if that happens to pass do you think putin will have in and after him hence you sort of accept it and move towards negotiations i mean at the end the day they do isn't it ultimately a task what he chooses whether it's national pride or you know some some potential some promise although. the pragmatic guy looking at the united states well i'm sure that president putin wants pragmatic and well aware where are the

limits of his passion and he is. well and his desire. somehow somehow repairing the the the relations between our countries i don't know because the administration says that. their answer was very very very very very delicate they would say that if for the president but he said well he has a response will be. so the response. of the american your sanctions the response will be. whether off the bat be meeting or summit based place or not that's for the president to just say now i've heard from some a russian diplomats from some russian officials that in the past while and i merican some russians were engaged in sound sort of negotiations let's say on one

and they're reining it right isha moskowitz always sort of trying to sell its influence on or off for its influence on issues that are of interest to americans rather than straightforwardly pursuing its own if that summit indeed takes place do you think russia's negotiating an approach from change or we will still be sort of trying to accommodate big guy who is walking and cheering because. i don't think so i think that. if something bates plays it will be i think that will try to. really explain the relations to really explain maybe he will say one more go make a u.s. president believe for believe that there was no no russian interference because this cyber interference the. you know the attribution is the most is the most difficult issue they blame. our military intelligence i cannot

exclude everything but they don't get beyond saying belhadj incident is still involved in bin american elections previous or. over the last. mr brzezinski isn't really about trying to explain to them erica because i was just reading this recent book by william burns a former deputy secretary our state former american ambassador to russia and he makes it pretty clear that communication has never been an issue of its. russians and americans the russians have always communicated that position pretty clearly but that americans it sure that just chose to ignore those explanations so isn't really about you know explaining your point of view i rather be being not what you try to communicate well that's a pity because you see if you accuse anybody especially if you're

pews a state. of some just violations but accused of crimes you're going to present the evidence you're going to present as they say card then not just. reference that we know it was the best american but we know what we're doing trust us we know our intelligence says that there was a few months it's like the brits made their way screwball case no evidence not so it whatsoever well still highly likely russia is. is the bully this same way appear united states but it can't play devil's advocate here because the united states has such an overwhelming get back to when it costs you internet and digital technologies when it makes sense for russia to develop offensive cyber capabilities and steal out its partners know that. you know.

some tools and it's pockets because at the end of the day we are all one a rebel to the american not. hour in cyberspace into americans want to see just off 2 more they can possibly do that so rather than you know blaming each other we're going to make a better sense to look sad some sort of rules in cyberspace and think we've got to be can all play by them fully agree fully agree any bets what we can offer to. buy do we have a year ago let's sit down have. some work out some rules some rules or be here in cyberspace because well it's recognize that russian. the best in the book by the way well the russian intelligence officers let's be honest with our audience they also have pretty good expertise and there is a very well but. well i shouldn't say i mean that if they didn't that would be

entertaining i do not see any reasons why a russian military intelligence well the fears of their elections or trying to interfering is one thing but having the capacity to change or fear is another. americans also have the capacity to end the fear that yes a bit always that they fear but their logic is that we have to fear to make you good to make you better you if you are to make us worse i know this logic but it's good it's good for you and just for kitchen talk but not for state to state really since it's my strong belief well in any case the. plants for our bilateral summit in the 3rd country are on the cards and i don't know about you but it sounds me back to you the times of cold war when let's say gorbachev and reagan would meet and have a coffee or a shelf and candidate would meet in here and trying to prevent

a new career pocalypse do you think these kinds of comparisons historic comparisons applicable here because normally speaking of these danish leaders. with me in each other's countries they would not seek a neutral territory but here we are again looking for a country that would provide a neutral ground. absolutely i fully agree that historical peril is complete about 100 percent because a mono. saying bad situation no worse than they were in the period of reagan or in the period of. i think her shelf kennedy that was i have to the cuban missile crisis and the cuban missile we're going to listen we have no old soon or. maybe very close but very close very close because because in the incident. i didn't say they just want to finish then i strongly believe that any military confrontation between the united states and

russia could not become so cannot be controlled the escalation is even and its coalition nobody can afford to heat their bets up and that's obvious so either you've got to get my soul get my planes well shut down my warships were drowned but ok i agree let's stop it no that won't be deed it will be escalation best so bit better true should be understandable now i want to specifically ask you about this latest summit and latest revelation the latest on that gorbachev and reagan in the great cabinet because. it was notable on several grounds they didn't signing the major documents but that that meeting was a ritual a big crowd were at the end of the cold war which was celebrated in the west that primarily because of the collapse of the soviet union that was

a major think by them and the major positive thing for them about this summit that do you think now the americans are mentally emotionally ready to deal. deal with russia as it is why do you think they're still allowed by this idea that they can change russia that liking and that russia that they know right now will sooner or later collapse and they can. climb you know their partner in its place you see. their mistake is then they. as well at least not i cannot speak for the for the whole american for the american public as a whole but as for their leadership especially. the president ministration leadership they strongly believe that be in big poor or ever think is president if we can do is everything will change or maybe teach.

for them it will be an opportunity. to change russia and that's their mistake i think. i'm sure about that. well mr brzezinski it's always a great pleasure talking to you we have to get there but thank you very much for sharing your thoughts thank you thank you it's not great you for watching hope to see you again next week here on a well the part. of . the. west needs a national will discover that i when he believes in the west that solicit it to

prevent you. from or your morgue you're more your partner are going to be moving from our previous. bush or psyche would all but us lucifer mistletoe is just that i'm like i don't i'm just. it is not my achievement mr davies our 5 you have plans for conceit but indeed and carried out by the people themselves if alan would produce or even floor with the idea of making a film like this he probably be branded as crazy. now is the sentiment during the war the soviets were brave heroes resisting nazis that's going to change of course after the war but once the cold war begins. little people think that hollywood is a free place but only what is strictly defined by only one side of the business and

the other side is ideology. how would i define hollywood is a call to dream manufacture which i think's true but i think equally. it's a problem in the fact. united states is not looking to kick off a cycle of. nation in conflict with russia moscow slaps the u.s. with sanctions in retaliation for washington imposing restrictions on russia just a bit earlier in the week. a week of on rest in the u.s. state of minnesota where anger over the police killing of a right continues to rage. a c.n.n. .