but welcome to worlds apart his duties in eastern ukraine have more than once resulted in a call to arms for pubes western allies raising the threat over direct confrontation between russia and the west but this past week as the tensions in the eastern ukraine where heating up something unexpected happened president biden picked up the phone and placed a direct call to vladimir putin what's on the line here while to discuss i'm now joined by you kenny bush and a retired lieutenant general of the russian army and chairman of the board at the p.r. center and most mr brzezinski it's always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for quite a good time thank you and son for him right now i heard once from

a at high ranking russian general that it is a job of where responsible military commander cannot ever be surprised to be cognizant of any outcomes and yet i think there are very few people in must be including among you know former colleagues at the ministry of defense who weren't taken aback by biden reaching out to him directly i wonder what were your initial thoughts when you heard the news 1st of all 'd i don't overestimate 'd the . call i don't think that. the present circumstances really expect some major changes or major improvement of our relations i think that maybe an american leadership recognize that. the situation may go too far because because. certain can be. if any

confrontation well 1st of all if. direct military confrontation war between ukraine and russia starts i doubt that the us. the united states will send their service member their forces to assist you crazy or course they will be sanctions them as in russia isolating russia but for ukraine there will be disasters of course of course ukrainian army is not be an army of 2014 but still be the number of aircraft that 'd everest of course security of russian forces aren't. but if if because there may be accidents because i'm sure that american advisors maybe steal their own or already there or maybe it will be

if they're eve. direct military confrontation starts in these case i do not exclude the possibility that they will be bearing down for a patient in the us russian forces and not get i can ask you something because there there are lots of speculations here in russia not asked you will cool maybe behind this recent escalation of tensions whether it was the american idea or the ukrainian idea what's your take well 1st of all i don't think that anything may happen in ukraine without u.s. consent especially especially this because it all started early february when our intelligence well i know this. well the movement of as she loans with. every day out there in the shelling intensified or even started and intensified so a bit. i don't think that. this concentration of forces is not

a concentration by the way 4000 men in the one share is not the concentration but of course our 'd our troops in the western and southern military districts them out there know in good shape they have been and will change for the last. 67 years by the way last summer last summer. when it was a previous administration and even the same area trying to convince other member westminster districts there was also a period on the final combat training exercises and the concentration was about 150000 people by the way nobody was to concerned about that back then yeah more than more than 500 of them helicopters more than 20000 pieces of equipment that nobody cared you know mr bush's case was a different administration baghdad with different views are both in russia and of

ukraine speaking of which i have over the last couple of weeks presidency lansky out of ukraine and he's officials have stopped the diet calls for that mission into nato they have never talk of talking about that so much and i wonder if this conflict is still about gone boss and its place where it belongs or whether it's more about the rest of your brain and whether it belongs on that made us umbrella. i think you're right it's not on the. bus of course the bus is the most evident place where the the and the conflict burial conflict may start but i. would. train here by the way trade me is more dangerous it's much more dangerous because it's not just the mother recognized the but the eskimo ganske republic it's russian federation so if there isn't trouble cation in trade me and their response

will be much more severe both don't see. that. may may 'd involve directly made the most remote not exactly americans but then. why is there so crazy here and black sciri chin is much much much more dangerous when i ask one question about don't bust because whatever the ukrainian leadership. hit its commitment to ukraine's territorial integrity it's pretty obvious to everybody that they don't need them boss at least at this point they don't want it to be reintegrated into ukraine because it's very expensive anomic li it's very risky politically etc i wonder if this recent round of tensions could be at least in part motivated by the man's calculation of actually losing don't box and gaining nato membership at the same

time when that have solved many of these problems in just want to go. well maybe you're right of course 'd this is this possibility cannot be excluded although i am very skeptical about this nato made the membership or invitation to meet them because 1st of all they cannot swallow ukraine to be a country of at least 7000000 people ruined economy militarily not so attractive by the way. so. i remember bucharest 2008 when they had tried to invade georgia smaller country and still be because there's a position of the europeans and i think them today europeans will that was that's why they and i thought it rhetoric of the us administration now is not better offensive as it was in europe because some of you know remember crumbling the rise

just should furious right around that they will say in bucharest in b.c. there really has to invite ukraine and georgia now going back to that call putin and by the way you mentioned that your brain and what's happening in ukraine must have played a role in. prompting that outrage from biden's do you think that's a call that the fact of it having taken place a potential summit that was discussed between president biden do you think it will have any effect on the ukrainian front do you thing regret expect some cooling down there think if if. a segment really pates place and not in the forseeable future but as you know blinking yesterday mentioned in the coming weeks i do not exclude that possibility or course will

definitely be made diffuse the situation with him he may be convincing in explaining the situation of explaining russian motivation moreover americans know i'm like you create or i'd like to lance here who doesn't control everything in the bus and not all the forces in the bus with him controls everything and if he says that by then ok i don't go he won't but that apart from putting having out more control of the events i think he's also more straightforward that it's goals things by. that means various ukrainians as far as i can tell are trying to essentially be in a position of a tail wagging the dog because if they are indeed try trying to game and nato membership they're essentially trying to marry the united states and shop and you know crossing on it with all the suppose it's accurate prices that ukraine did for the united states and suddenly you're completely right and as far as and the stand

americans know that the ukraine would like those who would like to well to put the americans in a very awkward situation either you or your help us know they're talking about us bad nuclear weapons it's a made matter for the american for the united states but that the ukrainians. yeah i mean that some talk of a bit of a bit. position the fissionables completely irresponsible complete play sponsors not competent presented by them came on be heels of another 5 last publicized phone call based on between the chiefs of staff of their russian and the american army and from what i heard from my sources it was a very polluted pro long and detailed discussion do you think there is any connection between these 2 you phone calls for of course it's their right to mention because they're american. and joint chiefs. chairman of the joint chiefs

of staff here moves that the 1st ok. you're in your eyes and love and he knows that if he wants to know. the information from the from the original source. of your estimate and your estimates i think he explained everything he explained about the training period i'm sure and he explained maybe if the book was on the stand that maybe that is sort of a warning to be your premiums be careful because we're not there but we are. but we have close now close to an exactly why because i mean under normal circumstances it will be diplomats who will be holding those talks but we are finding ourselves in a position when russia has already recalled its ambassador from. washington after outrageous statements by joe biden calling the president this country

a killer. we know that the foreign ministry a few days ago the russian foreign minister came out with a statement saying that they consider an america an adversary not just a partner i mean. on the top of that the military to military contact are sensually the only line of contact the only lot of communication between our precious what exactly does it say to you when basic military people and doing the job of the diplomats is that a sign of what. i would say that people are doing the jobs of the people events no good i don't know talking at all and yes people there just is just exchange of information that just i'm sure that you're i simply explain because he's going to be part of what russia is actually doing it what treasury is actually meeting and when i say that we are close by the u.s. mint maybe maybe he said ok general we don't want war but if you create the

ends we'll start offensive from the people down bust even irrespective of the effect of the red sea if somebody 1000 people with russian passports we have commitments to. give support to defend those people we'll respond and maybe he will explain it he explained to his counterpart in what way russia will disappoint. and they said the end i think that was. that was taken seriously i am absolutely sure about the joint chiefs and maybe there was the result when they canceled the. passage of there was absolutely mexia it would be some sort of diffusion of situation by the ukrainians thought it although could be shelling. started talking that we are not going through any offensive and not going. to solve these issues by milch i mean so a dead book 'd is the best there is already it is not bad it is not that aggressive

well mr brzezinski we have to take a very short break right now but we'll be back in just a few moments. it's

been decades since the fall of spain's fascist regime but old wounds still haven't healed you and you think oh i was going to come the time was working and it was. because of me from you know. me coffee to mark cuban music by war so go to me on the bus at the source me know what i'm interested that's important to you know cells and have newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given away and forced adoption i don't know lee but i want to use the other for feaster with my own role as a fellow mentor to this day mothers still search for grown children while looking in hope for their birth parents.

welcome back to well the part we have to be of guinea was chairman of the board of the care center here in moscow mr bush and before the break we asked started our conversation of how this will hold its own person and by then and it's interesting that the american presidency of that whole goal xpress his intentions his country's intention to haue quote stable and predictable relationship with russia and i wonder what does stable and predictable mean in these day and age when the 2 countries are diametrically opposed on how they see the world or their and their respective places in it. well it's very difficult for me to say what the united states president means when he says that united states one wants stable and predictable relations me personally i don't believe in such relations as american presidents want wants them to be on the one hand we got

very where we need to become we'll press your we definitely as your we insult you and do everything we want i don't believe in such insight she said surely americans call it walking and chewing gum yes yes i do not believe in this working chewing gum i do not believe that such essential nations may be stable no i am sure they will well it's interesting because as the officials on both sides started preparing this potential summit we are also hearing american media reports about that and you round of sanctions that the administration is considering including some restrictions against russia's so far and dad as well as the expulsions of the russian diplomats i wonder how far in. terms of sanctions the americans. of course it go before the idea of time it becomes a job it would be for what the russians cannot sustain it anymore oh well you see

it seems to me that well as one of my granda says in. the russian government told me that. russian story is. tired to come and be in the packages of sanctions there are more than 7 there were and $75.00. will be or they have been already know the new package of sound sense or will be announced maybe late that will be about expanding group of people who have. sanction and then other when they are going to say sions of some number of people and then again our summary of the sun sanctions about our summer and that . of course there will be there will be a response and as far as it was reported by o. press yesterday you should offer assistance to the president here some of the u.s.

ambassador and warrant that if there are new sanctions the response will be. will definitely be well at that increase thinking we cannot i mean that as russians we cannot that are for their you know response because. first of all i mean we have no that no instruments of leveraging that american story and that i mean this is this is the most dangerous dangerous and damaging are the proposed new sanctions. bill and if that happens to pass do you think putin will have in and after him hence you sort of accept and move towards negotiations i mean and the other day they do isn't it ultimately a task what he chooses whether it's national pride or you know some some potential some problem it's all the. pragmatic guy look at the united states well i'm sure that president putin wants pregnant i think well aware where there are

limits of his passion and he is. well and his desire. somehow somehow repairing the the relations between our countries i don't know because the administration says that. they're their answer was very very very very very delicate they would say that if for the president but he said well here's the response will be so the response. the american you'll sanctions the response will be. better off the bat be me. the summit basically sum up that's for the president to decide shall i heard from some a russian diplomats and from some russian officials that in the past while and i merican some russians were engaged in some sort of negotiation so i let say on on

and there were a new nuclear issue mosco was always sort of trying to sell its influence on or offer its influence on issues that are of interest to the americans rather than straightforwardly pursuing its own if that summit indeed takes place do you think russia's negro or shading approach don't change or we will still be sort of trying to accommodate because i've always walking and cheering because i don't see so i think that. if something bakes plays it will be i think that we can build try to. really explain the relations to really explain maybe he will say one more go make a u.s. president believe for believe that there was no no russian in the fears because it is a cyber interference the. you know the attribution is the most is the most difficult

issue they blame. our military intelligence i cannot exclude everything but they don't get beyond say intelligence and is sort of it will be american elections previous or. over the last. mr brzezinski isn't really about trying to explain to the american because i was just reading this recent book by william burns a former deputy secretary our state former american ambassador to russia and he makes it pretty clear that communication has never been an issue between russians and americans the russians have always communicated that position pretty clearly but the americans it should that just chose to ignore those and. clinician so is it really about you know explaining your point of view i rather be being not what you try to communicate well that's a pity because you see if you accuse anybody especially if you're

pews state. of someone just violations but accused of crimes you're going to present the evidence you're going to present as they say hire them and not just. reference that power and then we know it was the best american but we know what we're doing trust us we know our intelligence says that there was a you know it's like the brits maybe we screwball case no evidence not so it whatsoever well still highly likely russia is. is the belief this same way appear united states but it can play devil's advocate here because the united states has such an overwhelming get back to when it costs you internet and digital technologies when it makes sense for russia to develop offensive cyber capabilities and sealab its partners know that if you know.

some tools and it's pockets because at the end of the day we are all well memorable to the american not. hour in cyberspace into americans want to see just off to war they can possibly do that so rather than you know blaming each other we're going to make a better sense to look sad some sort of rules in cyberspace and think we've got to be can all play by them fully agree fully agree any bets what we can offer to. buy their way over a year ago let's sit down have some work out some rules some rules over here in cyberspace because well it's recognized that russian. the best in the book by the way well the russian intelligence officers let's be honest with our audience they also have pretty good acts towards us and those who are well but.

well i shouldn't say i mean that if they didn't that would be entertaining i do not see any reasons why a russian military intelligence well fears of their elections or trying to interfering is one thing but having the capacity to interfere is another. the americans also have the capacity to interfere that yes a bit always if they fear but their logic is that we have to fear to make you good to make you better if you have to fear to make us worse i know this logic but it's good it's good for and just for kitchen talk but not for a state to state religion that's my strong belief well in any case the. plans for our bilateral summit in the 3rd country are on the cards and i don't know about you but it sounds me back to you the times of cold war when let's say gorbachev and reagan would meet and ricky have a coffee or a shelf and count it with me in here and trying to prevent

a new career pocalypse do you think these kinds of comparisons historic comparisons applicable here because normally speaking of these danish leaders. would meet each other's countries they would not seek at a neutral territory but here we are again looking for a country that would provide a neutral ground. absolutely i fully agree that historical peril is complete about 100 percent because the moment. saying bad situation no worse than they were in the period of reagan or in the period of. i think her chef canada that was i have to the cuban missile crisis and the cuban missile we're going to listen we have no old son or not maybe a very close but very close very close because because in the incident. i didn't say they just want to finish then i strongly believe that any military

confrontation between the united states and russia could not become so can not become so the escalation is even and its coalition nobody can afford to heat their bets up and that's obvious so either you've got to get my soul get my planes well shut down my warships won't drown but ok i agree let's start with no that won't be deed but it will be escalation best so a bit better. should be understandable now i want to specifically ask you about this latest summit and latest have received the latest on that gorbachev and reagan in the break having because. it was notable on several grounds they didn't signing a major documents but that meeting was a ritual a big crowd were at the end of the cold war which was celebrated in the west that

primarily because of the collapse of the soviet union that was a major think by them that the major positive thing for them about this summit that do you think now the americans are mentally emotionally ready to deal. deal with russia as it is why do you think they're still led by the side that they can't change a russia that liking and that russia that they know right now will sooner or later collapse and they can you know klein you know better partner in its place you see. their mistake is there. as well at least i cannot speak for the for the whole american for the american public as a whole but this for their leadership especially. the president ministration leadership they saw their belief. be in big and we're seeing president if we didn't do this everything will change be cheech all

for them it will be awkward you're going. to change russia and that's their mistake . i'm sure about. well mr brzezinski it's always a great pleasure talking to you we have to get there but thank you very much for sharing your thoughts thank you thank you it's not praise you for watching hope to see you again next week here on wall to part. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy on sunday

shouldn't let it be an arms race. scary dramatic development the only thing i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and. breaking news on r.t. russia expelled 20 czech diplomats. being bad a huge explosion. 7 years ago and through 18 russian diplomats the country. in a week strained international diplomacy the u.s. with. washington imposing restrictions on russia earlier in the week which came at

the same.