it's only a plane for heating up something unexpected happened president biden picked up the phone and placed a direct call to vladimir putin what's on the line here while to discuss and now joined by you kenny bush and skip the retired lieutenant general of the russian army and chairman of the board at the p.r. center and also comes mr brzezinski it's always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for quiting the time thank you and son for inviting me now i heard once from my ass high ranking russian general that it is a job of where responsible military command to not ever be surprised to be cognizant of any outcomes and yet i think there are very few people in must be including among your former colleagues at the ministry of defense who weren't taken aback by biden reaching out to greet him directly i wonder what were your initial thoughts when you heard the news 1st of all i don't overestimate the quote i don't think

that. the present circumstances marie and i expect some major changes major improvement of our relations i think that may be an american leadership recognise that. the situation may go too far because because my. belief that if it comes from beijing well 1st of all if. barack military confrontation or war between ukraine and russia starts i doubt that. the united states will send their service member their forces to assist chris or course they will be sanctions them as in russia isolating russia but for ukraine there will be disasters of course of course ukrainian army is not to be an army of 2014 but still be

a member of their craft that everest of course the security of russian forces aren't. well if if because there may be accidents because i'm sure they have american advisors maybe still there or already there or maybe it will be if they're eve. direct military confrontation starts in this case i do not exclude the possibility that they will be barack through patient in the us russian forces and not get i can ask you something because there there are lots of speculations here in russia not asked you who are maybe behind this recent escalation of tensions whether it was the american idea or the ukrainian idea what's your take. well 1st of all i don't think that anything may happen in ukraine without the us consent especially especially this because it

all started early february when our intelligence well i don't know this. well the movement of su loans with and it we have every day out there initially and intensified or even started and intensify so. i don't think that. this concentration of forces is not a concentration by the way 4000 men in the row and sherry's not the concentration but of course our our troops in the western and southern military districts then no demo in good shape they have been and will change for the last. 67 years by the way a lot some are a lot some are. where it was previous administration even the same area trying to convince other member westminister districts there was also

a period on the final combat training exercises and the concentration was about 150000 people by the way nobody was to concerned about that back then yeah more than more than 500 craft and helicopters more than 20000 pieces of equipment that nobody cared you know mr bush didn't get was a different administration baghdad with different views are both in russia and ukraine speaking of which i have over the last couple of weeks president a lengthy out of ukraine and he's officials have stepped out that calls for that mission into nato they have never talk of talking about that so much and i wonder if this conflict is still about don't boss and its place the way it belongs or whether it's more about the rest of your brain and whether it belongs on that made us umbrella. i think you're right it's not on the. bus of course the bus is the

most evident place where the the and the god please be real conflict may start but i. would. be trained here by the way trade me is more dangerous is much more dangerous because it's not just the mother recognized the the eskimo ganske republic it's russian federation so if there isn't trouble cation in-tray me and their response will be much more severe both don't see. that. may may 'd involve directly made the most remote not exactly americans but then. why is there so crazy here and black sciri chin is much much much more dangerous when i ask one question about don't bust because whatever the ukrainian leadership size of. its commitment to ukraine's territorial integrity it's pretty obvious to everybody that they don't

need them boss at least at this point they don't want it to be reintegrated into ukraine because it's very expensive canonically it's very risky politically etc i wonder if this recent round of tensions could be at least in part motivated by the man's calculation of actually losing don't box and gaining nato membership at the same time when that have solved many of these problems in just want to go. well maybe you're right of course 'd this is this possibility cannot be excluded although i am very skeptical about this nato made the membership or invitation to meet them because 1st of all they cannot swallow ukraine to be a country of at least 7000000 people ruined economy militarily not so attractive by the way. so.

remember bucharest 2008 when the trade bill in by george a smaller country. still be because those opposition of the europeans and i think them today europeans will that was the best way and i thought it rhetoric of the u.s. administration now is not better offensive as it was in europe because some of you know remember combat in their eyes just should furious running around that they will say in bucharest in b.c. there really is to invite ukraine and georgia now going back to that call and pretend by the way you mentioned that the ukrainian and what's happening in ukraine must have played a role in. prompting that outrage from biden's do you think that's a call that the fact of it having taken place a potential summit that was discussed between president biden do you think it will

have any effect on the ukrainian front do you can regroup expect some cooling down there sink if if. a segment really pates place and not in the forseeable future but as you know blinking yesterday mentioned in the coming weeks i do not exclude that possibility or course will definitely be made defuse the situation with you maybe convincing explaining the situation that explaining a russian motivation moreover americans know i'm like you cream or i'd like to lance here who doesn't control everything in the bus and mum all the forces in the bus with him controls everything and if he says by then ok i don't go he won't but that apart from putting having out more control of the events i think he's also more straightforward that coles things by. that means various ukrainians as far as

i can tell are trying to essentially be in a position of a tail wagging the dog because if they are indeed try trying to game and nato membership they're essentially trying to marry the united states and to shop and you know crossing on it with all the suppose it's accurate prices that ukraine gets from the united states and suddenly you're completely right and as far as and the stand americans know that the ukraine would like those who would like to well do the americans in a very awkward situation either you or you help us know they're talking about us bad nuclear weapons it's a made matter for the americans for the united states but back to the ukrainians. yeah i mean that some talk of a bit of a bit there position the fissionables completely irresponsible complete play sponsors not the top in protected by them came on be heels of another far last

publicized phone call based on between big chiefs of staff of their russian and the american army and from what i heard from my sources it was a very polluted pro long and detailed discussion do you think there is any connection between beasts you phone calls for of course it's their right to mention because they're american. and joint chiefs. chairman of the joint chiefs of staff here moves that some of the 1st ok. you're in your eyes and of and as you know is that if he wants to know. the information from the from the original source. of your estimate and your estimates i think he explained everything he explained about the training period i'm sure and he explained maybe if the book was on the stand that maybe that is sort of a warning to be your premiums be careful because we're not there but we are. but we

have close now close to you and sadly why because i mean under normal circumstances it would be diplomats who would be holding those talks but we are finding ourselves in a position when russia has already recalled its ambassador from. washington after outrageous statements by joe biden calling the president of this country a killer. we know that the foreign ministry a few days ago the russian foreign minister came out with a statement saying that they consider an america an adversary not just a partner i mean. on the top of that the military to military contact are sensually the only line of contact the only a lot of communication between our precious what exactly does it say to you when basic military people and doing the job of the diplomats is that a sign of what. i would say that people are doing the jobs of the people events no

good i don't know talking at all and yes people there just is just exchange of information that just ensure that your i support explain bill he is going to be part of what russia is actually doing it what treasury is actually meaning and when i say that we are close by the u.s. mint maybe maybe he said ok general we don't want war but if you create the ends we'll start offensive from the people down bust even the respective of the fact of the red sea somebody 1000 people with russian passports we have commitments to. give support to defend those people we'll respond and maybe he will explain he explained who he's going to present in what way russia will disappoint. and they sent the end i think that was. that was taken seriously i'm sure by the joint chiefs and maybe there was the result when they canceled the.

passage over there was absolutely lexia it will be some sort of diffusion of situation where the ukrainians will stop it although it will be shelling. started or being bit. any offensive. so this issue right milcher me and so. 'd there is already it is the. rest well mr brzezinski we have to take a very short break right now but we will be back in just a few moments. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race in this spirit dramatic development only really i'm going to resist i

don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. psychiatric drugs are essential for millions of patients rather they want that pill that they hope will take care of their problem thoroughly and rapidly in the short term they really work the problem is in the long term and mostly disastrous suddenly stopping a drug can cause withdrawal symptoms most serious than the condition it was meant to treat instead of the beneficial effects of these different medicines ending up to something wonderful and very often there harmful effects it up to something terrible 10 pills. probably trying to medicate life itself i just think i was in like i was just scared i was a scared little girl i was 24 and like. you didn't have to be so complicated.

welcome back to walter part 3 of the game he was insecure chairman of the board of the peer center here in moscow mr bush and before the break we asked how did our conversation about the so-called it's been printed and biden and it's interesting that the american president and our whole goal extra asked his intentions his country's in tangent you have quote stable and predictable relationship with russia and i wonder what does stable and predictable mean in these day and age when the 2

countries are diametrically opposed on how they see the world or their and their respective places and it. well it's very difficult for me to say what the united states president means when he says that united states one wants stable and predictable relations me personally i don't believe in such relations as american presidents want wants them to be on the one hand we got very where we need to become we'll press your we definitely as your we insult you and do everything we want i don't believe in such insight she said surely americans call it walking and chewing gum yes yes i do not believe in this working chewing gum i do not believe that such essential nations may be stable no i am sure they will well it's interesting because as the officials on both sides started

preparing this potential summit we are also hearing american media reports about that and you round of sanctions that mr ation is considering including some restrictions against russia's so far and dad as well as the expulsions of the russian diplomats i wonder how far in. terms of sanctions the americans. of course it go before the idea of time it becomes a job it would be for what the russians cannot sustain it anymore oh well you see it seems to me that well as one of my granda says in. the russian government told me that. russian story is. tired to come and be in the packages of sanctions there are more than 70 words $75.00. will be or they have been already know the new package of sounds

since or will be announced maybe late that will be about expanding growth and diplomats sanction and then other when they are going to say sions of some number of people and then again our summary of the sun sanctions about our summer and that . of course there will be there will be a response and as far as it was reported by o. press yesterday you should offer assistance to the president here some of the u.s. ambassador and warrant that if there are new sanctions the response will be. will definitely be well at that increase thinking we cannot i mean that as russians we cannot that are for their you know response because. first of all i mean we have know that no instruments are leveraging that american story and that i mean this is this is the most dangerous dangerous and damaging are the. proposed new sanctions.

bill and if that happens to pass do you think putin will have in and after him hence you sort of accept and move towards negotiations i mean at the end the day they do isn't it ultimately a task what he chooses whether it's national pride or you know some some potential some promise although. pragmatic guy looking at the united states well i'm sure that president putin wants pregnant i think well aware where are the limits of his passion and he is. well and his desire. somehow somehow repairing the the the relations between our countries i don't know because the administration says that. they're their answer was very very very very very delicate they would say that if for the

president but they say well here is the response will be so the response. the american your sanctions their response will be. whether off the bat be me. the summit basically sum up that's for the president to decide shall i heard from some a russian diplomats from some russian officials that in the past while and i merican some russians were engaged in some sort of negotiation so let's say on one and there are a new nuclear issue moskowitz always sort of trying to sell its influence on or off for its influence on issues that are of interest to the americans rather than straightforwardly pursuing its own if that summit indeed takes place do you think russia's negotiating an approach from change or we will still be sort of trying to accommodate because i've always walking and cheering because i don't see so i think

that. if something bates plays it will be i think we can build try to. really explain what the relations to really explain maybe he will say one more go make a u.s. president believe for believe that there was no no russian in the fears because it is a cyber interference the. you know the attribution is the most is the most difficult issue they blame. our military intelligence i cannot exclude everything but they don't get beyond say intelligence and is sort of it will be american elections previous or. over the last year mr brzezinski isn't really about trying to explain to the american because i was just reading this recent book by william burns

a former deputy secretary our state former american ambassador to russia and he makes it pretty clear that communication has never been an issue between russians and americans the russians have always communicated that position pretty clearly but the americans it should that just chose to ignore those and. clinician so is it really about you know explaining your point of view i rather be being not what you try to communicate well that's a pity because you see if you accuse anybody especially if you're pews state. of someone just violations but accused of crimes you're going to present the evidence you're going to present as they say card then not just. a reference that aren't there we know it was the best american but we know what we're doing trust us we know our intelligence says that

there was a if you know it's like the brits maybe we screwball case no evidence not so it whatsoever well still highly likely russia is. is the bully this same way appear united states but it can't play devil's advocate here because the united states has such an overwhelming it back to when it costs you know internet and digital technologies when it makes sense for russia to develop offensive cyber capabilities and sealab its partners know that it. has. some tools and its pockets because at the end of the day we are all one a rebel to the american not. hour in cyberspace into americans want to see just off to war they can possibly do that so rather than you know blaming each other we're going to make a better sense to look sad some sort of rules in cyberspace and i think we've got

to be can all play by them fully agree fully agree any bets what we can offer to. buy their way over a year ago let's sit down have some work out some rules some rules over here in cyberspace because well it's recognise that russian. the best in the uk by the way well the russian intelligence officers let's be honest with our audience they also have pretty good acts towards us and those who are well but. well i shouldn't say i mean that if they didn't that would be entertaining i do not see any reasons why a russian military intelligence well fears of their elections or trying to interfering is one thing but having the capacity to interfere is another. the americans also have the capacity to end the fear that yes a bit always that they fear but their logic is that we have to fear to make you

good make you better if you have to fear to make us worse i know this logic but it's good it's good for you and just for the kitchen talk but not for the state to state really since it's my strong belief well in any case the. plants for our bilateral summit in the 3rd country are on the cards and i don't know about you but it sounds me back you the times of cold war when let's say gorbachev and reagan would meet and ricky have a coffee or a shelf and count it with me in here and they're trying to prevent a new career pocalypse do you think these kinds of comparisons historic comparisons applicable here because normally speaking of these danish leaders. with me in each other's countries they would not seek at a neutral territory but here we are again looking for a country that would provide a neutral ground. absolutely i fully agree that historical peril is complete about

100 percent because the moment. saying bad situation no worse than they were in the period of reagan or in the period of. i think her chef canada that was i have to the cuban missile crisis and the cuban missile we're going to listen we have no old soon or. maybe very close but very close very close because because in the incident. i didn't say that i just want to finish then i strongly believe that any military confrontation between the united states and russia could not become so cannot be controlled the escalation is even and collision nobody can afford to heat their bets up and that's obvious so either you've got to get my soul to my planes well shut down my warships were drowned but ok i agree let's stop it no that won't be d.-d.

it will be escalation best so that. should be understandable now i want to specifically ask you about this latest summit and latest have received the latest gorbachev and reagan in the break having because. it was notable on several grounds they didn't signing a major documents but that meeting was a ritual a big crowd were at the end of the cold war which was celebrated in the west that primarily because of the collapse of the soviet union that was a major think by them that the major positive thing for them about this summit is not do you think now the americans are mentally emotionally ready to deal. deal with russia as it is why do you think they're still led by the side that they can't change a russia that liking and that russia that they know right now will sooner or later collapse and they can you know find you know better partner and it's quite you see

. their mistake is there. as well at least i cannot speak for the for the whole american for the american public as a whole but this for their leadership especially. the president ministration leadership they saw their belief. being be in big or they were seeing president who. is everything will change be cheech all for them it will be over if you're going. to change russia and that's their mistake . i'm sure about. well mr brzezinski it's always a great pleasure talking to you we have to get there but thank you very much for sharing your thoughts thank you thank you it's not breaking for watching hope to see again next week here on walter part.

it's been decades since the fall of spain's fascist regime but old wounds still haven't healed. the times when. because for me from your. computer mr pole to me on the bus at us it's mean older than us and they seem close which we know sells ins of newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given

away and forced adoption that only. feaster. to this day mothers still search for grown children adults look in hope for their birth parents. like. russia expels 20 czech diplomats in a retaliatory move that's after prague accused moscow of being behind a huge explosion at an ammunition depot 7 years ago and through 18 russian diplomats out of the country. meanwhile in a week of strained international diplomacy moscow slaps the u.s. with sanctions in retaliation for washington imposing restrictions on russia earlier in the week which came.