until now as president will take the post of secretary of castro analysis departure last friday and on that same day declassified files revealed he had been the target of a cia assassination attempt as artie's reports raul castro reveals he's stepping down what better time to disclose your country muled the idea of assassinating him this is the perfect metaphor of cuba u.s. relations as the cia has published once top secret cables describing how in 1960 the agency offered $10000.00 to a pilot flying roll castro from prague to have to arrange an unlucky accident the plot can be added to what some say were the hundreds of assassination attempts on rolls brother legendary el commandante fidel providing a glimpse into just how big a thorn in america's side cuba was and even remains to this day clearly the

carriage drew regime will not change by its own choice. but cuba must change the way bergdahl affordably i don't care how i die but rest assured if they invade us i'll die in combat. you don't make friends with uncle sam by overthrowing a dictatorship ruled by his appointee or by building a socialist state right in his backyard for del castro did both his relations with the us started with a trade war escalated into a naval blockade of the island and climaxed with something that had the world staring into the abyss over nuclear apocalypse during the cuban missile crisis and island nation smaller than the size of florida found itself squeezed between 2 superpowers in the thick of what almost became an all out atomic war it would be

the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from cuba or against any nation in the western hemisphere as an attack by the soviet union on the united states things eased a little since then of course the us is a very different country the soviet union hasn't existed for nearly 3 decades but cuba cuba remains the same along with its ever so poor relations with the u.s. we will not live saying actions on the cuban regime we will enforce the embargo. was reaffirmed today that any strategy that seeks to destroy the revolution either through coercion and pressure or by using subtle methods will feel. the troika of charity in this hemisphere cuba venezuela and nicaragua has finally met its match that you without the secretary of the united states is deliberately lying by calling cuba a sponsor of terrorism this is slander and an insult to gates cuba cuba is no

closer to freedom and democracy than it was 4 years ago the age of castro is coming to an end but is the anticapitalist cuba heading the same way well roll castro says over his dead body. it does nothing nothing obliges me to make this decision but i firmly believe in the strength and value of example and the endor standing of my fellow countrymen and let no one doubt that as long as i live i will be ready with my food in the stirrup to defend the homeland the revolution and socialism may well be right but what do you do it. here every day. and we are back with more of the top of the hour.

hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered on peter lavelle is there a method to secretaries they blame tim's madness what are we to make of his policies towards russia china and ukraine and afghanistan what comes 1st for him values or interests is he informed by ideology or geopolitics does he believe in anything. discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guess marcus papadopoulos in london he's a historian analyst and author of the new book arise where i'll see a return of russia to world politics and in oxford we have mark owen he is the director of the crisis research institute right gentlemen rostock rules and in fact

that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to the markets pop it up listen london 1st marcus what do you make of the secretary of state and we can throw in as well as callie jake sullivan i mean we've had a very turbulent last few weeks particularly when it comes to the issue of ukraine but we had also the summit in anchorage so you know we we have all of this dust being kicked up about ukraine's sovereignty which we can talk about and only one country has been compromising the sovereignty of ukraine that's the united states you remember big torii a new one and then we have anchorage here and then as we speak right now by commiseration is asking of russia will. join a climate change conference you know and john kerry is in china if i'm not mistaken and nobody really wants to talk to him and the summit that was being proposed the russians are not interested in it i mean what's going on with lincoln in the others

in the administration they seem to have lost the plot nobody really cares what they think. well peta i hope the premise was that it was the deployments or significant numbers of ukrainian forces including heavy artillery and of miss our systems to the donbass that precipitates it because the crisis over ukraine i do not believe a bad decision was actually made by the crimean authorities themselves i believe they were instructed to deploy its forces to the donbass i washington and london after oh ever since the coup in ukraine in february 2014 the ukrainian government has been nothing but a collaborator to both the americans and the british so i have to ask myself the question why have the americans and also the british police about this crosses over ukraine is it because washington and london is opposed the state department the

national security adviser to our ignorance about the cultural and national security significance of ukraine to russia well i believe that when and ukraine was part of the soviet union yes this state department would have been in many respects ignorance about the significance of ukraine to russia but i do not believe the state department has been ignorance about ukraine ever since the demise of the soviet union and especially since the coup in ukraine 7 years ago so therefore i have to conclude pizza that the americans and the british instr. sits the lackey isn't here to deploy significant numbers of ukrainian troops and ukrainian military hardware so they don't pass so test the response of the kremlin to test the readiness of the russian military the americans and the british who not

relinquish ukraine easily they are absolutely adamant that ukraine and nato so encircled on its western borders it's a very dangerous policy the americans and the british plane but whilst i believe that the secretary of state and the national security adviser deployed to themselves our ignorance about russian history i don't believe the people on the russia desk in the state department and also in the foreign office our ignorance about just how important ukraine is to russia you know mark we did see a bit of a stand down i mean the exercises we're going into the black sea were kind of put on hold maybe even canceled as somebody saying something here but i mean you look we look at the media narrative and his are really quite extraordinary they get it's rt it's quoting what reacting to russian aggression is if you can be aggressive

when you're moving troops within your own country that's never properly explained i don't understand it either because there's no logical answer towards it but i mean i think marcus is on something here and i think this is testing resolve and i think they've got an answer there's a lot of resolve here the interesting thing for me is that the all the biggest loser in all of this is obviously ukraine but i guess the policymakers in washington in london don't care about that go ahead mark. yeah i think this is the basic problem is that. the western states have not really understood that this is all vitally important to russia and even if you take the completely negative view of russia's role since 2000. it still makes sense to just so what do we want out of this do we want to have a conflict with russia it would be suicidal and. but also we can see if you're trying to have somebody using the game and they think it's debts then you're going

to find itself in a real punctual and i think fortunately perhaps without states in the summer or ships the black sea. they don't want to raise the stakes too high and then find themselves having to retreat or. more problematic still or just correct once you have a discussion. but war school board don't trump us amateur predictable and so on in his foreign policy. insofar as there is any continuity with it's well they carry on with their policies but also carry on with. this is all the more bizarre because both. of them the national security being in highly post yes including the case of lincoln back in the late ninety's so we we find ourselves innocent placing a puzzle these were supposed to be the people who return professionalism and predictability welded foreign policy and certainly in the months they behaved they all the kind of trumping rank outsiders and bizarre weirdos that we were taught to

think oh well the disaster behind trump for impulse. control going to these new so what then you can say is if you will and not just in moscow beijing but even if you're in paris. you have to also want to be signed on to with these people that you find within a few weeks of. the policies changed its. market so. right here i mean the help azhar is it for you is that you know when there was the call between the russian and the in the american president we saw escalation on the nato side and there is a there sarah get in this case ukraine and after the phone call we're told maybe there could be a summit here i mean why when the world with the russians sit down for a summit after the antics that we have seen rubies of the ukraine for weeks now i mean we we have the cranium president talking with french media i mean basically

throwing down the gauntlet and basically is also saying you know this is it's all or nothing i mean we're in. nato now irrespective of the rules in train the alliance or if it is a catastrophic war i mean what kind of sarah get is that and what does it say exactly what mark was saying the kind of normal normalization of of policy and stability here i mean it's a mockery of all this is just one big mess that never should have happened in the 1st place marcus one of the opinion it so that biden's proposal which in his telephone conversation is extend to ranger mates in it which the survey says can discuss ukraine was merely a propaganda or exercised by the americans the americans and of course the british have project states so their respective audiences and to the rest of the world the current crisis of ukraine was about wide. and

a massive russian forces close to them with ukraine with the intense or invade in russia and of course the americans who are as we know the guardians of peace in the world the guardians of democracy trying to present since a result of it now because that's nothing but a propaganda exercise but i must also say the. i don't actually believe that i didn't actually backed down as some western commentators are same not i believe the americans knew what the response of the russians was going to be london and washington know very well russia is not going to cough when it comes to ukraine it is simply too personal for russia culturally and in terms of its national security i would also corroborate my argument by saying base

firstly was the decision was taken to cancel the deployments of the 2 american warships to the black sea the americans are still going ahead in our great in the ukrainian police over besa nicholai f. and logical to accommodate american warships secondly it is now being group is it in britain that at some point this may the who navy will be deploying warships of its own so the black sea so i don't think behind and back down i think it was a cop again directs the size and has a center here in the program in the readiness of the russian military you know work in the when when the americans and the bread is not about the new green sovereignty i think that they have a very short memory or there is blaine's because. it was more of the february who in 2014 let's remember this year correct me if i'm wrong but look around has been

on the ends and crimea was part of ukraine after the coup then the crimean they voted with their feet quite literally and then the people of what we call the donbass were were the subject of a military assault were up to 14000 people were killed so when they're talking about protecting ukraine's sovereignty i would think victoria nuland is probably the biggest agreed offender in. violator of ukraine's sovereignty great me if i'm wrong. but in 2014 the west knew that the russians are in a sense a retreat to moscow well 989 on its own they would continue to do so. and also has to pretty in ukraine and be a big thing and therefore you could have a centrist small scale of people in here where a few 1000 people over throw the government and everybody else. and it turned out

that wasn't the case and it was that russian state was not to see russian speakers are now subjected to people who were using the rhetoric and the russian language making insults and to russian. and i think the problem with the west being that we have failed to think through not who might all right laura promise but who our friends are. in fact in a situation knowing who your friends are knowing whether the people you are backing the same views the same produce that you think they do when they have the same policies in the same agenda. is a really important question to go. and it may be that people are not all diplomatic services. but all public opinion is very much on the view there's a plucky democratic ukraine place to crash a credit. and it fails to see whatever problems are in crimea and on us there is no doubt which is those ukrainian nationalist home right

forces that actions including trouble with russian group because they want to draw the west into. what i want you to hope this is not you're not going to heartbreak and that's about heartbreak in your discussion of american foreign policy state. that's geysers might have a little place a little girl on. the floor to do that this is a central plank support diagram is a good problem right now so you stop to. call them out across top where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this is the home edition and we're discussing american foreign policy.

goes go back to mark and obsessively we're going to the break i'd like you to finish your point go right ahead i think there is the risk with the title why. let those ukrainians who essentially right who. lives inside ukraine and to assert themselves as to a conflict with russia will drag in the west. well. right now this if you're serious and i might but but but isn't there i mean that is the thing is that i noticed in the geo political gambit because essentially. no matter what the outcome politically it's a it's bad for russia ok. if there if the donbass is attacked by ukrainian forces. russia will react is made it very clear this is a red line here ukrainian military will be damaged severely flawed annihilate it ok

but russia will be quote unquote be the aggressor ok so i mean it's kind of no matter what happens if there is a military. initiative the outcome is a political defeat for russia but it means. in that logic is a lot of ukrainians are going to die as well here see and that's what i find really perplexing here i mean i think really willing to do that because it is the end skis standing wolf you will have lost a war he will be out ok and then you have this virulent nationalists will probably take even a stronger position or marcus what a big you know want me to do my scenario does it make any sense to go to. the americans and the british can do nothing for ukrainian sovereignty like they can nothing for the welfare of the average ukrainian man and woman what they seek in ukraine is to enclose a loss on its western borders and innocent innocent javier where ukraine is

a member of nato then the russian federation on its western borders of the old 60 so the black sea. and circles and neighed so eventually the dominance may fall in the black sea just take a map out and look at ukraine's coastline if ukraine was in nato or nato warships from odessa all the way to the sea of azoff would be menacing not just the russian black sea fleet but russian national security in general you know it's ok let me jump in here because we're talking about and this is what speculate about ukraine in nato market what kind of ukraine i mean ukraine without the donbass ukraine without crimea i mean and then that is a violation of nato zone rules because a country cannot become a member of it has territorial disputes with its neighbors here nato is probably couldn't break its own rules and rewrite them in

a and it's i don't put that past them but if there is a military conflict it is not going to be the donbass the meat maybe it's all the way to cut it off ok i mean because if you look at it from the russian side. i mean if this is how you want to play then we're going to great we're going to look after our security interests i mean of this look at what happened in in georgia in 2008 i mean silva said to you it was liberated then russian forces went all the way down to gori not to occupy it not to keep it but to knock out all of the sensitive n.s.a. equipment that was there as well estimated worth of your $1000000000.00 n.s.a. had a real headache with that one there i mean what's the history does repeat itself at times and i see this here to some i mean what kind of rump state are we talking about when it comes to ukraine when it lets the tragedy of ukraine is in fact not just seems to. be not wrong life has been getting well. informed and so on.

and so that's a big problem from the ukraine could have a real world of its internal system for instance maybe begin with dumbass money didn't do we necessarily want but it's more dangerous another way also talked about that conflict is not of course both western military equipment and western training . in situ in west but the problem is that the bases with a temp missiles and other weapons would almost something to the tow groups in a war between russia and ukraine so if we made her personal fall from. the 100 crimea before the borussia a significant number of major military trainers and so on and military equipment in ukraine would be almost a nickel actually time i'm not maybe i will let that would deter russia respond but i think since 2008 for instance over george your supposition the idea about russia would be passive who ordered a conflict at any cost and some about to be respect. and so even if you take those

of the most. nations and. you have to also ask them so what is the kremlin's base of interest that is to russia's treaty and to. make clear that it isn't popular it's going to lie down real low and then you wake up about. and as a protector once you have a conflict the risk of escalation is the simple reality is that for russia it's like the issue absence of the cross training government but it's not a life or death issue west nor pans. so what where does that leave us it leaves us in situation we might find also provoking a major conflict and i want you to back out of that is not always easy to do once you start a fight you can't then lay down the ground rules that's right that's why we call it the fog of war marcus i mean looking at it at secretaries they plane can and sullivan here are they ideologues in your mind are they opportunists do they think

in geopolitical terms because you know we you know sullivan said he wanted to have a foreign policy for the middle class which if they wanted it more closed the middle class they would end all these wars and stop killing young men and women in wasting all the money maybe put a little money into infrastructure i mean what do you make of these people because personally i just say it straight out i think these people are low octane thinkers go ahead marcus i agree with your analysis of the data and i also do not consider them absolute so in selection as i've been saying this for a number of years now that the caliber of politicians in america and in britain cannot be compared with the caliber in both countries from say firm c. or 40 years ago and in regard to the current circuit your state of the guts of the commons national security advisor are they are ideologues well maybe in the sense that they believe in american blue supremacy they believe in american

exceptionalism that they believe the world's is divided between good and bad and the good is the west. is is the east principly russia and i think on that basis they will because surely their policy which they have which they inherited from the trump administration i say the trumpet ministers and i don't say drum which the trumpet ministration inherited from the obama administration which there are of ministration inherited from the bush administration. and so on and i quickly want to say peter that in the gutter ukrainian membership of the major you're right you nato could bend its own rules to accommodate ukraine into the military bloc and i think it's far more likely ukrainian government could sit down with its masters in washington and london and decide that it's time to redraw the national borders we're not going to but they

know they are not. they know they will not retrieve a 3rd of the net and the 1st of lugansk which is gone if they have to redraw their national borders then yes theoretically the road is open for them joining nato and i also want to say there is no tension between ukraine and russia there is tension between the ukrainian authorities and the russian government the only area of ukraine you will find really in abundance runs as he runs consensus and is in goal is the is in ivana frank is in turn a pole if it is not just on the left ankle the mic where you find a very production of crows so if it's also on the right of the river beneath if you go to a desa the people there are largely speaking who say odessa is a russian poet which is historically accurate so there is no tension between the ukrainian people by and large and the russian people there is only tension between

the ukrainian authorities and the russian authorities the ukrainian authorities are lackies they are willing to say the destruction of their own country which is an artificial one for the sake of the military boots they are receiving from austria wasn't and london you know marco one of the things that again i suppose i'm really perplexing is that if there is a complicated it is resolved in the way that marcus is just suggested here it doesn't mean tensions will go away why would anyone want to invest money in ukraine when there are tensions still with one of its neighbors here in a. and of course russia is going to make it very very difficult for nato membership here i mean it seems to me it doesn't solve any of ukraine's problems whatsoever and i don't see the european union particularly interested in bringing new crane on board ok because of the governance issue it's a lot of agriculture i mean that really doesn't serve any purpose for the for the e.u. when it has its own structural problems right now i mean it and i'm just kind of

mystified i mean i guess it's kind of like the saakashvili you know phenomenon you know that he believes all these really wonderful stories and the little trinkets they put in front of him but it didn't it didn't solve any of george's problems either i just again that's why i asked of these people ideologues of the opportunists how would you describe them go ahead well basic problem for the politically leaching here is that because it doesn't run it's to revive the economy after all it is the whole depended heavily on the west and by the way also on facebook i asked johnson which is why it's so hostile to the mode also. and so you have a situation that will be more citizen which would it will seriously orms an improvement to mcauliffe life or getting rid of corruption when it's all getting little siphon your money out into our bank account so you get a real up arms and all are being put on the back and as you said this is not just the koreans trying to press documents or translate some of the republicans but seem

to aspire to be on the the new house oh wait a minute do we really want to take on the burden of paying these countries to reach our standards but who typically when you have this irony of the british role pushing these countries to join the e.u. you are pushing for the e.u. . but the british would look at withdrawals from the you won't be paying into the budget so in fact the resources available to the what we want peace become an integration but. much depends on what we call it crisis the economic downturn. so we have this base which was west which is the ability to draw to go military or receive or also your moment all of what is in our interests what are our ideology and. ration and so we see this. term waving in the wind or sometimes being very assertive and aggressive in all of them back you know statements visit and what would you say you have you noticed a slight comment so i reassure you well i don't know you but we'll leave it. there

it's always the up all of us are so they're not something. gentlemen that's all the time we have want to thank my guests in london and in oxford and i want to thank our viewers from watching us here in r.t.c. you next time remember stockwell's. am with. the menu or am. trainee magics and francois pushed a breaking point by the pandemic with one in town committing suicide everything.