relations are in tatters at this point there is no reason to believe they will improve anytime soon as it appears that washington is determined to force moscow to take to me this is delusional this will never happen we live in the most dangerous of time. a jury finds minneapolis police officer dead children guilty on all charges in the killing of george floyd last year the case has been closely watched with fears earlier of unrest in case of an acquittal. a medical intern commits suicide every 18 days and the pandemic pushes trainee doctors to the breaking point. british doctors and nurses are also buckling under the strain of the pandemic with one health worker describing staff and. those

headlines at this hour coming up next it's stay with us. hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle russia u.s. relations are in tatters at this point there is no reason to believe they will improve any time soon it appears washington is determined to force moscow to take the need this is delusional this will never happen we live in the most dangerous of times. cross-eyed. russia u.s.

relations i'm joined by my guest lattimer goldstein in providence he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university in pittsburgh we have dan like he is a professor of law and author of the plot to scapegoat russia and tell us how we crossed the general me whose motto he is managing editor of covert action magazine and author of 4 books on u.s. foreign policy including the russians are coming again all right gentlemen cross how girls in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it glad i'm here let me go to you 1st here as i said in my introduction the relationship is in tatters there's virtually no relationship right now and it seems to me that washington simply doesn't want to have a relationship with moscow if moscow won't take the knee and you and i know that's never going to happen so we're in a stalemate is long it's peaceful i suppose we can all live with it here but we have something in the middle called the ukraine and other areas where there could be contention with syria potentially venezuela being punished if there is

a crane were to lose in some kind of military conflict i mean where where in your mind you know if i'm on this side of the pond you're on that side of the pond how do you see this go ahead. well i think the ones that need a certain kind of washington is there are some for be a please at least that grade you know ever since in mccarthy era you know re-entering by mean politician to show how top he's would usually she is you know now days you know they have to sort of accuser asaro wall 'd possible so it's always sort of a it's a it's a whimper position in general so it's not going on with it if it's wise american police are concerned but that is additional think you know we have to keep in mind that the last 4 years was like break it literally for because they're you know people who hated drum they inadvertently kind of channel their anger at russia who were the country which of their mind would drown made americans do it was wrong so

this hate it has to find its channel now trump has done so and i say this is the where so in order to eat just sanctions don't penalize so that's what one reason for business cohesion 3 and i think it's rather basic for you know psychological needs which you are i'm not sure there are people in charge of you know major security and america ready for the war but at least they will continue to beat this drum and also i think another reason for the whole is collation is in or they have to develop lula after 4 years of saying to the russian is behind everything right more or less wildly up to say they have to say deal or get to acknowledge 'd a good was all. that it was all political ploy so now they say russia will the final is it will not have the will sanction so again i guess biden is in a bind he happens yeah i mean if this would have been saying this on this program you know even during the hoax and after it was debunked i mean i everything is

being debunked a bounties thing is being debunked ok dan i mean what rush the rush to get hoaxes bled into policy in this. what i feared most ok i understood the dynamics of it domestically obviously it was a it was a operation to get rid of trump but he's gone but this mindset is here and there's no way in the world they're going to walk this back no way at all and plus you know in a policy sense it's nato expansion that's on the table here that's what this is about go ahead dan. yeah well that's absolutely right so 1st of all the n.l. is just acknowledge the truth that the russia kate scandal was a scandal some said without even any allegations really. and now you know putin has been blamed for everything from remember the the protests in charlottesville he was even given credit for capture nic taking the knee i mean i think the hysteria around russia has never been greater to mention the balinese that has been defunct

apparently the white house itself doesn't even believe in the story but they keep running with it and as you say this is about nato expansion nato is already up to the borders of russia it now and compass is a number of former east countries and even a few former soviet republics and now of course they're threatening to swallow ukraine incident nato the west has russia completely surrounded russia does not have the west surrounded in an analogous way and yet every time russia moves troops even within its own borders it's seen as aggressive we live now in upside down world it jeremy it is upside down and when it's upside down it's very very dangerous because we hear these words you know they're you know they unflagging support for ukraine sovereignty well let me put the president of ukraine

is basically. tempting. him pushing his military to go attack the donbass and to recapture crimea which is russian sovereignty right now and we get all these added boys attaboys go after i mean it can't continue this tension cannot continue something happens so it's an escalation or deescalation and both are losing propositions go ahead jeremy. you know well we've seen the fighting in ukraine is resuming right now and you know that conflict was barely covered in the western media and united states but it was you know a tragedy for the people the region something like 14001 people were killed over a 1000000 were displaced the ukrainian military committed horrific atrocities including torture and it was you know it's kind of like a vietnam for them i mean that's why they had to rely on these private militias because a lot of ukraine didn't want to fight their own people and this war starting up again so you know this this in itself is

a tragedy and there's the broader risk of nuclear war you know the u.s. and russia and between them have 90 percent of the nuclear weapons in the world so this escalation is very very dangerous and the you know u.s. leaders as other 2 other guests have been provoking the situation now for years and playing up this risk of phobia to ridiculous levels but it's had a tangible effect on u.s. public opinion because public opinion polls have shown that attitudes toward russia are very negative much more negative than 10 or 15 years ago and especially among democrats they're particularly negative because the democratic party has taken the lead on this over the last years ok vladimir one of the thing that really irritates me not only invest in the policy irritate me because i think it's very dangerous and unnecessary but this is the framing of this story ukraine versus russia this is you can this is an intra ukraine conflict and it's not described to the public that

way i mean there's even a. a peace path ahead there's a plan it's called the minsk accords here and the the camp government said it would implement it but it won't russia is a guarantor france is a guarantor germany is a guarantor but no it's never frame that way in the media and of course policymakers don't want to frame it that way because then you can demonize russia go ahead lotta me. bated of course this is all european affair you know if you crane is in the center of europe and united states using it's very successfully by their i mean this wage within the euro by separating russia from germany we're just you know moralist natural elyse within economics within politics of europe and so on so this is a really wonderful ploy for united states to remain relevant because sooner or later you know europeans i'm sure will come to their sets and they were they figured it out and they're meant to make it you know a ukraine function look at no normal regular country which is just as its own just

but has respect for its neighbors but would i be in ukraine is totally in the pocket of united states you know to ukrainian sort of cultural zur jeter he said ever since it sort of they could begin to manifest itself have to find some kind of an l. ike now they are walls now they would dorks know the swedes now there are the russians now they have you know somehow it just cited to throw their hat with american so it was a big mistake rather than trying to figure out where parts of europe let's function like at normal 'd country they don't do that they are basic americans and americans feel very happy with that because you know who needs you know heaven and other black america you know more or less the allies itself and 20th century by the end of what a century is a kick a gemini huge amount of power and that they want to continue this way so if there is a wait to weaken the european allies they will do it if there is a way to weaken sunday was going on in the age that they will do that but i think it's again it's a proposition which goes 'd against your will if we iain's history against culture

so sooner or later you know what we called it will so it is always so without major bloodshed but was a reason americans kennet acknowledge the fact that this is a change miles cheap for call miles the central war exactly it exactly they they say you know these blink cans you know they live in the the you know polar moment still and that's a long long over and that's really the fundamental problem here you know dan i. well my 1st question to you on this program was about nato it has got to be another one about it i mean a nato doesn't continue to expand and it doesn't have a reason to exist this is very important this is what washington is terrified of the europeans making up their own mind about their own security interests energy interests eccentric they're terrified of it and that's why they're going up to the brink here because they make an existential and you know what we have august 2008 with georgia do any of these fools know how that turned out go ahead and you know why korea i mean nato i mean the truth as it is that nato as an had

a purpose really since the early in wall fell in 1989 it's certainly really doesn't have a real purpose now but as you say. the u.s. in particular wants to continue the nato alliance because it gives the u.s. so much a disproportionate power in europe meanwhile of course it's even expanding beyond your right colombia south america is now a partner i don't mean a full member but a partner of nato so yeah this is about us a gemini. this is about. pushing back on russia. as a major power now which it lost for a while after the collapse of the soviet union you know stephen f. cullen used to say you know the u.s. is just upset that the bear is back on its feet and i think that that is true i mean but part of my concern actually is that what's happening. it's not merely

accidental and not merely a matter of propaganda motivating policy of mean there are some indications that the u.s. may want to war yeah yeah with russia you know maybe with china maybe with both at the same time you know capitalism isn't huge crisis we know this the pandemic is only brought it into further crisis ok. hold that thought hold that thought we got to go to a hard break here and after that hard break we'll continue our discussion on russia u.s. relations staying with our kids. is your media a reflection of reality. in

a world transformed. what will make you feel safe from. tyson nation or community. are you going the right way or are you being exiled. direct. what is true what is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or remain in the shallows. welcome at the cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to

remind you we're. russia u.s. relations. ok let's go back to jeremy you know jeremy we're really in a between a rock and a hard place here because if you know we can look at the entire history of american empire but let's look at it since the end of the cold war ok ever since the end of the cold war the u.s. has punched down on small countries that could barely defend themselves and now they are coming across pira powers ok russia and china they may not be peers in every single way but roughly so and and this is this is really the dilemma we face here because russia was going to say we put our cards on the table here are our red lines you want to have a summit ok maybe but these are our red lines now it's up to you how to react to it now if the if the united states ignores that they already know what's going to

happen if crimea is attacked they will unapologetically use everything in their arsenal to protect their sovereignty they have made this clear repeatedly and there is one way forward the minsk accords now get your protege in. to follow through on it these are the only things we can do right now but i don't hear that coming from washington go ahead jeremy. well i think as dan said i mean maybe they won the war you know capitalism is in crisis i mean look at the domestic problems in the united states you know the country is kind of really starting to fall apart i mean the living standards are growing very bad i mean there's huge homeless rates the legitimacy of the government is crumbling so they play the foreign enemy car that mean. they try and unify the country towards a foreign enemy and it could lead ultimately to war and also i mean i think you

have the you know military industries that are exceedingly powerful and influential even from you know the way eisenhower's warning it's gotten to the levels even beyond i think he could have fathom the level of prophets and with the war on terror you know losing its legitimacy you have to have an enemy so they go to such great lengths to create enemy. you know to make sure it is fair mean if i could jump in here and making enemies i mean we saw what happened in anchorage i mean absolutely blinken should just quit i mean this guy is a low octane thinker i mean wow ok i mean ever since albright have you guys notice every said single secretary state just gets worse and worse and worse ok this is a b. team member from the obama administration a complete embarrassment ok you can talk about values all you want russians and chinese talk about interests here glad i'm here let me go to you what it was another thing that i find really just outrageous about how this story is being reported victoria nuland is number 3 at the state department right now she's

a one of a primary principle that broke up the sovereignty of ukraine after the illegal coup in 2014 if it hadn't been for the coup crimea still would be part of ukraine the donbass would still be part of ukraine and now they say we want to protect your sovereignty you've got to be kidding me go ahead jeremy i'm sorry black hair black america and i think. oh what we see here in front of us is more lies a lowly playable famous situation in france in our often a border town run that border grounds there was a mr a should is there a shot of the 2nd level kind of royalty aboard once came back and one wise a guy with a peanut said they didn't forget anything nor did they learn it and that's exactly what we have this is the people who have still caught up with a grudge against russia for interfering in their ukrainian plans they didn't learn anything new situation change their wall change their arses different chinese different so they continue to pursue this faith in policies again and he says this

is a crisis not just that can only place you know jeremy and density just that but i think it's a cultural crisis the culture of the country which can as we go tonight has its limitations and keep on pushing this kind of 2nd rate us into public light delivering some kind of silliness like you know good bronze after that illusion there were useless there well ok so it took another 10 years before they collapse and friends but you know who would believe them who would believe the royals you after people saw what they get accomplished and if that's what we're here for you know this is the crisis of i feel it's a crisis of culture which basically thinks if they appoint somebody who is not white who is not male the problems will be so just the other day of course biden came up with this brilliant idea of how to solve it crisis of refugees and you know in the bloodiest he just if he names if the jury is not into that non-citizen and you know if this is not a solution is not a macuser so this is like another one secondary solution there's

a sword and it's under the name and 6 so you know if you wipe out the whole need to population and there you are just roy the statue of columbus and you think all settled this is not damage to a serious culture and that's what we experience as well this is you know systemic you know crisis unfortunate in a it doesn't look particularly promising yapping right now and you know after we've been here been hearing for the last 20 years that russia is it. it's imminent collapse where you hear it all of the time i mean you could put that into google and you'll get page after page after page these fools and actually russian experts they fail upward have you noticed that if you notice these failed people they fail upward ok they get promoted they get paid you know a cable contract it's extraordinary here. dan one of the things that's really troubling here is that you have this foreign policy team like i said this is the b. team from obama and they were pretty in the whole administration obama was pretty b. team in general but you know they can't seem to recognize that other great power and

i stress great powers have interests and that's how geopolitics of always worked we the cold war was a very anomalous thing because it was very ideologically driven i give i agree with that but now we go back to a great power politics and you have the hedge i'm on saying that no one else can have any interest unless we say you have interests here and the russians are saying no or we don't know what you're talking about and we will defend our sovereignty and our interests and the more this is coming out of washington from these be teamers it is russia and china have decided what why do we need to have anything to do with this political class here i mean for china economic relationship will continue because there's dependency there but i mean on the other things there's no reason to listen to these people they're not serious people go ahead dan if they're not serious and you know to vladimir. general

collapse of the u.s. i mean all we have to do so look at the pandemic numbers right. we have the highest rate of covert. cases in the world and the highest death rate in the country which very shortly before the pandemic was rated as one of the highest countries in the world that should be able to deal with a pandemic. and we proved we could we can take care of our own business so how can other countries take seriously the us scolding them about their business you know in the end the question of interest you know the sad part is a lot of the interest the u.s. and russia have frankly are the same and who. for example didn't help the u.s. with with the war on terror including in afghanistan and will be willing to do that over the last summer and this got almost no reportage. a major russian general

offered to talk to the west and nato about troop numbers in the euro and along the russian border and said that russia was willing to talk about having parity both sides of that border and that was rejected i mean russia is trying us with you know further our interests and we won't even give them back if he had terminated the problem is here is that not recognizing the legitimacy of your interlocutor this is the problem we have here we saw this in anchorage ok they will not be a putin summit anytime soon why will this turn into a media circus that's what they want but nothing nothing of importance of substance can be done if this is the type of rhetoric we have there's no summit that is going to solve these problems because russia's interests are not going to change no some it's going to change their interests and this is what the people of washington

don't understand you know that the number of times you read you know we're trying to give the russians an off ramp you know help them out of this problem here no it's the other way around we can help you get out of your problems 1st of all stop expanding nato maybe rethink the architecture of security in europe i mean these are really solid things that talk about but no the same old failed patterns must prevail jeremy. yeah i mean this is really been going on over a least 100 years i mean the u.s. invaded russia after the russian revolution and you know the united states has been aggressive power and empire and you know because of secure the. here and for the public and make like russia you know this evil monster is out to take over the world but i mean russia historically you know that's not really the case and you know i mean today i mean russia does not have major overseas bases and is not you

know does not engage in the same level of aggression nearly as the united states so you know the perspective in the united states is totally skewed and it's just something out of george orwell 984 i mean somebody said earlier the world is completely upside down and perhaps these leaders were discussing are completely deluded i don't know but they're analysis of reality and so far off that. it's you know painful it's belittling but i mean we're rapidly running out of time you know the cold war as we knew it it was an ideological contest the confrontation with communism and capitalism but there is a there is an ideological element now but only one side is ideological and it's the west that's ideological it's not russia it's not china they're not ideological in they're not it trying to export their system their ideology but washington in the washington consensus demands that it must be exported their ideas go ahead. united

staes was at the pool he had so it's of his position of doormen the bio are sort of unprepared and unexpected you know that a lot of the great aesthetics of american economy or american culture are you know into regional days i'm a company so these are all good qualities they 'd have practiced within the united states let's you know this country succeed in whatever they do with science research you know there's also a great place but when this aspect of human existence in judaism is being an balls up all everything else at the expense of everything else it becomes a detail that we need cooperation we need more we need other other countries we need to consider like you said we send you into look at us but around the country would you just get used to do my way or wait you know it should stay within its borders and all my way or i would but the rest of the wall is not quite the radiate

for american my way oh i want to be all oh ever i have run out of time here gentlemen but you know what i you know trying to convince the world that mathematics is racism is not a good footing for international relations when he thinks that i get some problems for pittsburgh in tulsa and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. in x. time remember cross topples. the world is driven by a dream shaped by phone person. who

dares thinks. we dare to ask. when the central bank will claim there's that this is a big the most crime when they print money and yet we don't see that on the ground we see a lot of violence on the ground and that's goes directly to the feds door they have responsibility for that. happen and i'm on the phone in paris to my town way to go through a food. bank itself movie theater. plaza this way got to talk so hard not to think of them have the discipline to see the work that i want and i don't miss so much and if. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights his way.

through on the fee this will persuade you that you have a whole movie of it at the at the moment on the. what i think is this is the fund that is all come from. it's been decades since the fall of spain's fascist regime but old wounds still haven't healed. from going into the open thought it was pretty. good what are we supposed. to mean in the us at the source of the interest of the scene in which we. have newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given away and forced adoption that only. for. to

this day mothers still search for grown children. for their birth parents. this is us no one business show you can't afford to mess i'm rachel above and in washington coming out the u.s. is now warning americans not to travel to 18 percent of the world as some areas. others consider the use of the controversial vaccine for what the social network parlor is making its return to the apple app store but what has that agreed to change and will include.