from their mothers and given away and forced adoption. to this day mothers still search for grown children. for their parents. black lives matter rallies offended by us democrats call for the abolition of america's police force warning vet and officers a conviction for george floyd's killing will not suffice. russia's defense minister announces an end to a large scale military exercise in the country's crimean peninsula after claims from western powers that moscow was preparing for war with ukraine. and the u.k. government is caught up in a corruption scandal as the report reveals that over 20 percent of the money spent on the covert response went to firms connected to politicians. those are this

hour's headlines up next sophie and co hosts the father of modern marketing for a talk about how the pandemic has changed how we consume. the welcome to celtic of visionaries me sophie shevardnadze consumerism a culture and lifestyle for some a religion for many 2020 changed things to reflect on this i'm joined by renowned economist and father of modern marketing philip cobbler. philip cutler father of marketing professor of international marketing at kalak school of management northwestern university so great to have you with us we've been looking

forward for the longest time i wanted to talk to you for the longest time but now that the democrats say it wow i have so many questions for you let's see how many working get into this program 1st of all you build up a science of marketing basically from scratch and the books you've written have been the bible for business around the world for more than 60 years so marketing is about promoting the selling of goods of services right situation today with condemned make shedding light on problems with consuming and anti consumption movement gaining ground do you saying and new set of rules and guidelines is needed well the congress situation is going to change a lot of our lives right now and then cold it is finally. terminated we will have quite a different economy. how how r.

is caught how is coded affecting us today well 1st of all there's limited opportunity to go into stores where one can catch cold coronavirus and so more and more people are using the on line approach to buying what they need and that means that covert has accelerated the rate at which we become computer and and technology dependent and that won't change i think anyone who does a lot of ordering for the next months and however covert lask are going to continue to save time by ordering things from very good organizations or carry almost everything we have a company called amazon where you can arter almost everything and i won't be

surprised if they're going to sell a car too in the future so that's one thing. but the whole meaning of a company's brand is change is changing if the company continues to just talk about the brand as if there's no coated situation. it's going to lose control of it because a brand is not made by the company alone it's made by all the people on facebook are the people who talk to each other about chronic they experienced whether they liked it or not a bad brand can easily be exposed so companies have to rethink what is their message own message doesn't work in today's world. a message it works is caring for the problems that people have and right now we're saying that more companies have too good

a purpose behind their brand their brand must be carrying out a press that enriches the lives of the customers i can go on but my brief answer is that marketing is completely changed today because of the coronavirus. but talking about reaching out to customers i realized based on myself that people have changed during the pandemic right during this crisis many material things that he used to seem important don't really matter that much well maybe spiritual things or human contact they became more important what is the consumer like in the age of college 19 or or in post called a day most companies are much more with a specific type of consumer that they try to deeply understand and in fact be the best server of that type of consumer. what are the types.

there. i've developed a appreciation of some new types that are coming up and maybe you've seen it before but some car consumers are deciding that they are buying too much stuff there is no room in fact. they would like another appliance but there wouldn't be any. place to put it. they could buy a car but some young consumers are in some countries are saying. it's or is it because going to be i don't any percent of the time why would i tie up my money in a car i could get it goober drive me anywhere for much less than owning a car a show that's called a sharing society so there's a group called life simplify people who want to simplify what they are own or need

to own and so on there's another group that is worried about the planet and about true much consumption we're using up our land and our and our and we're not taking care of our oceans and we've got it maybe there's too much over consumption some people have to especially those who are building yachts and mansions and so on. can we afford all of that to be happening. there's another group that it wants to. eat better they want they realize they've been buying hot dogs and hamburgers and that isn't good for your health if you overdo it so they are sane eaters they are vegetarians in some cases are vague and begins and so that's another group and some of them are won't they we call them people who who want

a conservation they're saying basically we've got to make better products that last longer that we can recycle we can read care we could reuse and we can research related to other people who are poor and would find these products and fish i mean they call that a circular economy so look just a minute i mentioned maybe 4 or 5 different groups of consumers. and they may not altogether not be the average consumer yeah average consumer is going to be groping with this situation and trying to be sure they can get access to food and health and then they have to think about education for their children and others and what to do. so you're saying we're over

consuming that over consumption or even just consumption is what keeps the whole capitalist system running right capitalism works well only when there is a constant increasing consumption so the nature of consumption changes and you're saying it should change and it won't be quo ing steadily anymore how will capitalism survive or will it survive it's excellent question because marketing is based on the idea of helping. companies get the things that would satisfy their needs some of the needs of course are created by marketing i have to admit that. and and the idea is to help companies sell what they make. and many people normally think this will go on forever that consumption will continue production and consumption will continue forever. against the concern that people have that we're going to

bury the planet if we do that. so marketing is in a very in an identity crisis there are people who wish we could ban marketing or ban advertising they don't they're not very they're not found in many places but they just feel that much of what marketing does is create this satisfaction with our lives because we are shown cars and new phones and other things that we must have well we believe we have to have it and especially if several of our friends are getting those things and happy with those things we feel discontented with that move to make not buying them so marketing's job is to

produce this content to some extent which can be overcome by buying spending. i don't know how to stop that these are nice people who are marketers and salespeople who are doing their job which is to. supply things that might improve the lives of people if they want to buy these things so marketing isn't a crisis is it does is it the cause of the depression of many people why they're depressed or is it a factor contributing to that marketing has to rethink its basic role in terms of human society but if you're saying that marketing is in crisis does it out of magically mean that capitalism is also in crisis. well capitalism is in crisis i've been writing about that i wrote

a whole book called the contrasting capitalism with the 14 big problems which we all know about that there's a lot of poverty in the world. and it's a lot of low income for workers who are working hard i'd rather pay a person of clerical x. the city's garbage more than the c.e.o. of a company because he's doing more to sacrifice his life and we and nice especially think teachers are so underpaid tell the point is that we need. to think through. how. how marketing could serve society in a better way now you raise the question of capitalism yes. that's a way of organizing ideas and services and products. and that's worked

pretty well in the sense of creating economic growth i mean anyone who is a real capitalist will say well we have made it possible to have the best output and growth in the world. yes but has it been shared equitably and the answer is no the rich get richer the workers state editor at the old pay and the poor no one is taking care of soap capitalism deserves criticism. basically on the inherent is an inequity of the sharing of the gains at another words to me a company works when it has a team and a team members include customers employees suppliers distributors and the communities and either they all work together make the company successful or they don't but if they make the company successful we got to have

a better sharing and not pay the c.e.o.'s $300.00 times what an average hard worker is being a job or save capitalism but could it on a better basis and the ones who have done that are the scandinavians the scandinavians and in fact i wrote an article recently caught is america ready for scandinavian capitalism and the answer i good is yes and certainly we should pay higher taxes not the average worker who is paying enough and can't pay much more tax than people who have the money either. and let's use it and make college education free or at least less costly where people and make the health care system care for everyone was out a money every time he got sick or something so yes higher taxes

make sense and more scandinavian capitalism makes a ok that's very interesting capitalism but scandinavian style so it's to capitalism of the future scandinavian style caprese mr cutler we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to philip cutler father of modern marketing talking about what's happening to the model of marketing as we know it to stay with us to. to. to. i think that will be an interesting new chapter in all this is that after all the

jobs have been shipped to china the majority of american landlords will be chinese and so most people will have lost their jobs from china they'll be addicted to fence and all chip in probably from china and paying rent if they can afford a house to someone in china. and on the front of. the food. bank itself moving to. plus we've got to do. the thing on the other decide this. and i don't just come up and. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights his way.

through on the film who found this book. called given at the moment on the. what i think is this is the fun that is going to come. in his annual address to the nation russian president vladimir putin reminded his citizens and the world in fact russia has red lines when it comes to foreign policy interests and those red lines need to be taken seriously and there lays the problem the west refuses to acknowledge russia has its own national and.

and we're back with philip kopp lawyer father of modern marketing mr cotler here is it a question maybe a bit of a philosophical question but i'm sure you thought of it as well as he in recent years i've noticed that and correct me if i'm wrong there's a shift in people spending happy it's like before people really wanted to buy an old stuff to feel happy or right to feel better about themselves now they need stuff yeah yeah yeah to to to to to feel established you need to have stuff now the focus is shifting on buying and living and experience not stuff and experience so instead of buying let's say a flat screen people now book a trip overseas and instead of a new car they sign up for a university course right candice

a new value that's put on the experience help the global economy while the demand for stocks is going down. i like that idea it means that we don't have to produce so much physical stuff which requires ruining the earth basically by taking resources many of which can't be replaced later and making salad things soap experience is by the rate we are this also happens with experience if more people want to travel to exist and location as a sightseer you need an airplane to get you there and you need a busy hotel that also sells food and other things so but but there is an observation that. it has to do with a service economy the service economy is growing in relation to the goods economy. and so many things are intangible you know service is an intangible yet you see it

takes place but it's not anything physical going to the colleges it is getting erika a bunch of things like that are services. there's been a could do so many capitalists have found that if they can satisfy what we call intangible once not once for physical goods but intangible ones and they do a good job of it often and many many consumers are doing a trade off between having a car or using the money for their education or travel or something i don't know i haven't seen that measure it's a good question and maybe increase country after country and in a country with lower income probably stuff getting physical things is the 1st order of business not having experiential. spending.

on the other hand right it is our human nature to to like the abundance of choice i mean sometimes you just can't help it and will like having new things and like having beautiful things and then on the other purchasing all those new things leads to over consumption so here's the thing because this is like battling the basic human nature right is there a way to balanced is too fast it's of our life the desire to have road rage of good things and why shouldn't we if we want to have able to was right and also the risk to slip into having too many of these things that is damaging the planet like you're saying where where is the what's sticky for balancing those 2 major parts of our life. yeah each person has as an issue in their own lives. it is human nature to

respond to. good products to enjoy the design and the aesthetics of of seeing well built buildings and nice cars and so on and if one has the means to consider acquiring these things it's partly thurston's album the great economist called conspicuous consumption we sort of like to send out a message to other people that we are current we we not only are you looking for things but we want to own them. there's competition for. outperforming others by owning more i'm sure. and that's going to go on it's also driven by marketing through marketing helps introduce awareness of certain products that you could add to your life and. it's easy to have the

money to go ahead the balance i don't know what's in there it's less there's a movement a social movement that tries to say please contain your wants for physical things and think about how the planet is going to be heard by you consuming more then you need to consume. of course eat well in. life but don't make your life just to make your life about other people make your life about. having a good plan and so on so i don't know so a social movement might contrast to the normal thing of buying when we're never. you know i've read that after

a 2003 sars outbreak people were afraid to go to crowded shopping malls and turned to online retail and this led to the rise of alibaba and other e-commerce giants and it's obvious that this president make the code 19th and make has boosted online trade just as well. but can't replace offline shopping for good boutiques shopping malls transporters our life completely in that way yes it's interesting. i saw the problem 1st in my own. life because my wife for years stop shopping in stores. i don't know if there was a general or just and. it was her friends a few friends she everything would be ordered online a package would arrive she'd opened it up if there was a dress she would try it on if it was good she keep it otherwise she sends it back

and so that should i ask or sometimes does she misc owing into a. store and for clothing and she says well if she doesn't object to it there's no reason not to do it if we're in a shopping area she'll probably see the. look at the windows and maybe walk into one so the question is what's going to happen to retail and what we call in store retailing. if everything could be ordered as you need we need any stores. as a matter of fact when with death due to employment consider the number of people who and shopping centers are occurring in those stores waiting for customers. and we are knowing that we know that many shopping centers on during the pandemic.

are closed down basically. we think they're going to be turned into some other use but not as good as shopping centers on come back. there will there will still be a good cheat and a tiffany and something great where rest seems special to some people. many people will look stop at those places maybe not buy anything just to look. and i understand there was a very important part of life for most people most women too particularly. your day to some shopping and it's enjoyable pulitzer prizes so some people will return to that as soon as a pandemic ends and. some people will still be ordering more

i would say that any real retailer or retail chain is going to do less than they did before the pandemic in other words i expect profitability normally to be lower than they had achieved before the pandemic now there will be a few exceptions a few brand new types of in-store experiences and chains and so on that might lead to excitement but generally speaking you're not going to make much money running stores. sue cutler thank you so much for this wonderful chat i really appreciate i got so many answers to my questions i really hope like you said then we will become more aware and take care more of our planet and we will become more about people and taking care of each other rather than self centered. you know

so on this note i will let you go your time is precious thank you so much and i also would like to thank synergy online forums. by synergy business school for arranging this wonderful chat thank you and all the best. wonderful mom. you so much for your wonderful thank you so much.

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