with a brand new look on international nurses day wednesday the 12th of may but until then we'll be showing some of your favorite shows from this season stay safe and we'll see you then. i'm actually trying to do what you can of a lockdown edition of going underground after repeated attacks by only israel and by britain the united states and the european union's nations against middle east targets from the suburbs of damascus to the persian gulf to the iranian province of it as economic and military violence rages during a global pandemic from latin america to africa to northern ireland to ukraine let's go straight to rome to speak to the former am i 6 agent and the founder and director of conflicts for him to crook thanks so much for coming on you wouldn't think it's a here in britain where obviously people are grieving over the juke of edinburgh but just take us through some of the latest events i mean there's an attack on the nuclear plant an attack on the iranian side his vessel in the red sea and yet lloyd

austin biden's pentagon was he's been in israel declaring is his absolute support for the israeli government. yes that's right i think what we're seeing is in fact there's something of a division within israel about what to do about this netanyahu has been stuck along on one track on iran by 20 years saying iran is only a few months away or 2 years away at most from a nuclear weapon and he's his policy is basically been one of containment compay forever containment not just containment but forever. and that policy is not work and has to be working and israeli officials have started to question it and for the 1st time we've heard explicit public pushback from senior security and intelligence officials saying you know actually we'd like to go back and j.c.

and what's more we want to go back and we suggest we go back without adding anything to it no questions including missiles or other aspects into the negotiation. j p p o if we want to go back to that israel was safer at that time than it is now and these are senior officials former heads of must that i'm talking about it and i think it reflects something actually more substantial has taken place in iran and that is that you know we've been talking all the time about the nuclear issue being a real issue but actually for israel it's suddenly transformed because actually it's not the big one the in the main issue it's all the small ones the little while the smart cruise missiles swarm drones stretching from yemen through iraq iran syria only one to a certain extent into gaza this is much more of

a real threat and the real the carrots to syria those missiles are. hugely accurate the swarm drones that very affected we saw in the attack on iran. last year where they were precisely what missiles what precisely. into their targets and so this is a different level of terrorists it's a new terrorists that iraq has is what i call the role the almost 0 and the ram go in tax which cause the biggest spike in history i think on the oil price. from yemen iran very keen to distance itself from direct responsibility for that and if you are saying that former mossad people maybe you're in touch with the missing this then why the fact that mossad seem to be briefing presumably western intelligence agencies in the past few days that they were responsible for this hack of the natanz nuclear facility in his van province in iraq. oh this is you know

really a reflection of the politicize ation increasing politicized station of intelligence everywhere whether it's in america all whether it's britain who all whether it's in israel. because you you had in the past people like me or their guy was the editor who i used to know he was not dead but i mean he was very top when netanyahu originally wanted to take action against iran i mean he just said no and so did the head of the security service and they said absolutely not it would be a great mistake strategic mistake for israel to attack iran like that and now also what we have is your sea cohen as you had. who is a great fan of netanyahu and you know is someone who wants to make his career out of actually in iran become the entry probably to put his hat in the ring to be

prime minister of israel one day but it's basically very politicized intelligence because it's been saying all along iran is on the brink of internal implosion it's collapsing its economy is almost in grew in and we all know now that's not true it's not the case and in fact now. iran is moving into a new europe of cooperation 1st 4 with the china but also within russia not just on trade but on training intelligence sharing security issues joint exercises when really a very big change taking place that we have we have made a post rex a china deal here in the u.k. either thing properly just because because this hasn't obviously been covered in nato nation media at all. some people might be asking you what do you mean there's a been a massive trade deal between and the people's republic and the islamic republic.

well after the talks that took place in anchorage. who which you were a call a little earlier ago when the americans and the chinese sort of exchange. criticisms each other quite vociferously. the secretary of state was there to talk to them about their failings and shortly after that the chinese foreign minister came to karen and he signed. an a memorandum of understanding a trade deal reputedly they don't disclose again tales of the economic aspect repeatedly between $400000000.00 and $600000000.00. a big really 1000000000 dollars sorry not 1000000000000000 dollars i mean big exercise and this is something very important to china because what we're seeing is that this is going to find a really big shift in in the whole of the middle east of. greater eurasia it is about opening up the east west trade groups across the north of the middle

east directly into europe the north south route which also passes through iran and goes down to the south that might bypass who is rome where lines into pakistan looking pakistan into the road in belts. a whole exercise in expanding trade through infrastructure through pipelines through railway lines very soon will be a 4th line a rail line going straight from machine shown province in china through europe is the moment it's not high speed but soon it'll be high speed that'll cut the costs of transport asia are and will make it cheaper than actually using container ships for the transportation this part of the exercise in the old expression of actually moving away from the really maritime. space on the atlantic and around

the world which is where america and britain strengthens and to focus on a land based network from europe right through to china which of the 8 the need for all these choke points to pass from the choke points which basically the west mostly control bob amanda almost straight all of these traits which they control by the west for moving and aegean oil and gas and cargo and turn it into an whole network and of course when you look at that network either way if you look at it is where china europe north rushes down to the open waters in the south the persian gulf iran is right plum center in both and has been i mean since the last so gross largely sort of evaporated in

the 1500s but it was always a potion traders who were in command of the trade routes really in the centuries up to the 1500s when they went into so i mean they're really crucial to china crucial to to to russia not only in trade but in security and of course china or is expecting to have the return which is going to be iranian oil that's what it wants security of energy. and i think they've always had to tiptoe over the sanctions and 3rd party sanctions elements of the current nato nation regiment. we've actually been hearing about babel mand straits problems in the context of ethiopia and eritrea bizarrely but them given that you you personally have been involved in conflict resolution across the tables from conflicting parties who just before we get back to what we're talking about what do you do what did you make of

the language meeting when the chinese finally came out on the world stage as it were and read the riot act to joe biden's administration about next years on human rights. i think we'll look back on it in a few years time as a real time in point in history it really surprises me in a way because through chinese of being very cautious i mean i talked to chinese officials and they've been always very cautious and very cautious about what they said but i mean what was most significant after that was then there was a very important strategic meeting between the chinese foreign minister in about 2 days after the anchorage talks and mr rather off the russian foreign minister in which they discussed the yet closer arrangement between the 2 a strategic partnership association between the 2 countries but after that the chinese foreign minister went to saudi arabia and tara and then tara and he

used language which went on accustomed to hearing he recommended to the middle east a that they throw all 3 yoke of western hedging money including on civil rights and other issues. only they also told them to prize sovereignty autonomy and not to love pressures from the west to influence their policy i mean this is a this is the sort of language that used to come from the resistance front it was very striking to hear this coming from a chinese foreign minister and i think this does therefore that encourage the meeting with loughborough and then them the visit to the middle east marks a real turning point in terms of chinese position china also said it once and nonproliferation 'd for the entire middle east not just for iraq by implication

including israel which of course would be an estimate of the united states in that way and he called for. he said very clearly that it was quite wrong that we should all use our efforts against western countries trying to pressure iran through sanctions and that these should be removed from it and then iran should be able to return to some form of treatment on nuclear issues in the context of a complete denuclearizing of the middle east. why drag things for the chinese foreign minister to be saying well obviously israel very unclear about nuclear weapons we want to speak to mordechai vanunu he's not allowed to speak to the press alastair cook i'll stop you there more from the founder of conflicts form after this break.

like i said. i would say i'm not american but americans helped out really. world war 2 cures the depression farce my perceptions concern prosperity of course in store. for the for us the whole world what it what ended. historical rewrite ever since world war 2 to foment the cold war against russia against communism and. socialists nish bush. the so you call me are you all just a swipe we were so used to call the real. world war 2 has been the story credibly by the bangalore american media and that's because they

want to diminish the role russia. and stalin who actually defeated hitler. welcome back i'm still with alastair cook for my m i 6 agent and the founder director of conflicts for to avoid this sounding like we television station of choice of. being and let me have putin that could also mean that china was rattled on their 3. the stakes in this game that china and russia are weary of james jeffrey the former ambassador to syria told p.b.s. in the past few days al qaeda is in syria is an asset of the united states also there is israel this ironclad guarantee given in the past few days

by biden's pentagon boss and and of course there are the troops on the air ukraine russia border and the threat by the by the administration of retaliation military retaliation being be against russia. or yes i think as a role i really saw it no sense. if you like supremacy or anything in the 1st it was before the anchorage talks. the chinese were still hoping that could be a moment a modus vivendi achieved with biden ministration i think it was at the anchorage and what led up to anchorage all the threats that the new sanctions that were imposed and the statements coming out of the us that convinced them that there was a null there are preparing and rush to i think for the sense that the opening of a clash of some sort between the united states and russia china and iran is almost inevitable and that this is something that is going to be the deciding the

decisive moment in the future of geopolitics global geopolitics really that eventually i'm not talking necessarily about a military war but i'm talking about a full spectrum crypto war financial war economic war trade war all of these things combine information or particularly demonizing china demonizing russia the sort of mobilize asian politics element of it is that is very crucial in all of this and these states are really and particularly putin and russia are very concerned that unless. it is very carefully handled this could slip into some sort of escalation which would be very dangerous. for everybody you mentioned ukraine i mean that is. an area that is an issue which could blow up very easily we still

don't know what's going to happen but the reports that cargo planes arriving from the united states we don't know whether they carry weapons but very likely they do the russians got troops across or rather the border bella reuss is putting troops closely the russians are doing a read in this case the butchery there are entire army against the possibility that there are care will launch some sort of. attack us and the law would happen that if there's any response from russia i mean major would not united states and europe probably would go nuts and we could be very easily breakers. i'm not sure what turkey would do in fairness to the nato they to grouping i just got to give a quick sidebar to this in case people think i'm speaking to you from london you're in rome and we haven't mentioned the european union at all and here we are talking

about the future of the 21st century and what is going on in the european union in syria is after all in the eastern mediterranean ukraine is the largest country in europe and we have a we have the european union's jews a borel of defacto foreign minister saying in a blog we will not stop imposing economic sanctions on syria there will be no normalization of any level we will never support reconstruction efforts that learn every european union of the state oriented media talking about the need for. defense against vladimir putin and she jinping. well i think syria is something that the the european union has sort of taken on not so much as a strategic interest but is about a reflection on the temp by the european union to highlight european values on

human rights and other issues and as part of a shift we're seeing whereby. the europe is trying to redefine itself stroh's and to redefine itself with strategic autonomy and that strategic autonomy is to be defined by european and civilized nation. unfortunately it comes just at the point where really the whole idea of universal human balance is rejected by most of the pro as no longer appropriate and they say you know we all have our other supplies in. chinese say our civilization with our use our harmony and community not individuals and not price and so it's quite difficult so they are they will make an effort on that yes on syria it will be like that ukraine is a much more problematic for the european union but i mean basically the european union has almost 0 or ations with russia now it's gone i mean it was not so long

ago 10 years ago when it was thought in the europe and elsewhere that there would be a greater europe stretching from brought it. down to to lisbon and that if europe if russia was not part of the european union it would share everything but institution since i think prodi at one stage mentioned and all of that has collapsed and now they're off. lever off the foreign minister since there are almost no relationships we have no relations with the institutions with brussels with the european union with. certain member states maybe but it's a very serious position in europe being caught between these 2 big powers who are rivals united states was china russia are on the other europe's biggest trading partner is not china lot of united states it was

a taken by that because of the scrutiny belt that i was describing with trains and trucks coming with goods from china to europe the price of the earth and so we are . europe is in a very difficult position of trying to sort of. position itself and it needs of course investment and it needs trade ok well i mean if we can i just say if we discount what comes out the b.b.c. about syria and us stations and every nato nation really. one might than argue that a syrian family maybe on the outskirts of a glib is going to be thinking you know we have a 70 percent extreme poverty in syria 60 percent unemployment. report. rebranding of isis and al qaeda in syria to

kick off another war in syria it couldn't come too soon help from powers like china and russia and this with iran even while why are they being so. not trying to not being slow i mean the fact is that the united states and europe has sanctioned every effort to reconstruct syria and i mean let's be clear we're not talking about reconstructing the government all the state such we're talking about ordering humanitarian reconstruction houses help you know with water supplies electricity is all that is being sanctioned by western states and the situation of ordinary syrians is deplorable it's a really i mean beyond bad it's there in terrible. but neither russian where are billeted to to to simply rebuild syria only if you rebuild syria i mean the next thing you see will be a tomahawk missile or

a missile coming from somewhere you know not well which will destroy that infrastructure the united states policy remains that they want to see and it's got stronger. by because you have people mean if you ask me about someone like lincoln of course he was an odds with biden when he was vice press because he said there should be more done to get rid of more pressure more influence from your hardest to get rid of it must be. very very hard line in washington on it but national security adviser jake sullivan is known for e-mailing clinton hillary clinton back in 22 of it al qaeda is on our side in syria and biden acknowledged that al qaeda was in alliance with the united states was a movie the u.s. allies and here we are just as it is being on the show we went to damascus and he

said they're going to be elections this year presumably they can be no elections while the european union. well i don't know are they committing murder by these sanctions on syrian people and the united states continues to threaten syria and israel bombs damascus as it has in the muslim to do. yes i mean we do have. a extraordinary bad situation with turkey sponsoring jihadists in italy maybe 2 or 3000000 people under the control of al qaida or head choppers if you like that ilk i mean they're not very pleasant people talk and then you have the north eastern side. turkey supporting a kurdish and america's 40 a sort of kurdish more autonomy and then you have the rest of the population most of the urban population but i think the will be elections held where it's possible

to be held and they will be held in embassies outside syria who are those who are refugees if they're allowed i mean moves when they held elections for i think i'm here to know something and in lebanon there were huge killers of syrians floating the embassy in beirut i don't know whether lebanon were allowed to do that again i don't know whether they'll be allowed to hold it in other places it won't be it'll be a very imperfect election and of course people who view it with very different lenses and others will say it's a farce that most of those and others say let's see how it goes and let's look at the sort of turn out to greece within syria the turnout and who they voted for in outside syria yes and he said there will be more hotly disputed no one will accept that it will cause i mean the president will be there will be multiple candidates

it was nobody's political parties are under sanctions as well from the european union and britain now it's actually 75 years since the independence of syria on saturday would what goes through your mind about how journalists fail to see blowback after what we saw in afghanistan after what we see saw in. historically that they don't realize the dangers of as you call them had choppers coming to europe after this what seems to be continued brussels london washington support for what could harm brussels london and washington. well i remember some time ago ofter best broke out going on a main channel on television in the u.k. and i said you know what you're seeing here is a concerted attempt to regime change employ using jihadist using extreme sunni radicals to bring us about and i was told oh

well you know how do you not telling me the financial times it's wrong that the economist chris wrong and the b.b.c. is wrong when they show these videos all the time and i said yes that is the case they are all these men through these idiots a lot of it use fake reviews has been and i think you had it exposed about the huge effort the has the create a new commission. misinformation. amongst certain institutions funded by the british foreign office to present syria or was possible like it's very hot i mean. for all of your viewers it's impossible really to get to the portable the truth about syria it's just so much it the water is so minded the details are so much it it's terrible i so really indictment west

and all of us i mean what's happening because it's the syrian people it's not a you know it's more overthrow the government it's the syrian people who live in dire conditions and suffer terrible. infringements of every kind. that's it when your favorite you're the last season we'll be back on the 12th of may with an end to the local emma visions and a brand new look overly dylan you can watch all our interviews by thriving who are your channel following us on or for me. the world is driven by dreamers shaped by thinkers and of those.

dares thinks. we dare to ask. the flames because that that is cause that's your view through the engine was one thing the movement would deal with both because he wasn't all of them. and little ones are the worst a bunch of variants in the. last episode will fly was one of the. line because i did something she kissed him on which he sponsored and i stopped

more of those teach. my shoes. laws. made the day moscow time in the news from us today debate rages in france as it's marks the death of a man accused of genocide and whose wars cost millions of lives we looked at whether $2.00 centuries only look polian merits today's fanfare and celebration. for me he's still a hero he did a lot for the evolution of france but it cost a lot of freedom and lot of sacrifice if he he. level 2.5 you see he's big mistake may be to have reestablished slavery. new york's governor touches a raw nerve by advising unvaccinated people to avoid their grandparents amid allegations his own mismanagement is to blame for nursing home deaths we hear from an activist who lost her father at a care home in long island.