criminal justice i'm joined by my guest andrew langer in williamsburg he's president of the institute for liberty in atlanta and we have robert patillo he is a civil rights attorney and a radio host and in las vegas we have robert barnes he's a constitutional lawyer or a gentleman cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and always appreciate let me go to robert in las vegas for 2 reasons he got up early as for this program and he's also wearing a bow tie which of course points with me obviously robert let me go to you here what do you make of this raid on giuliani's house and taking his devices that was what the. the raid was all about they didn't take all of them we might want to go into why but i mean as a as a lawyer yourself this is fairy unusual what they're doing. do it i think they could have just called him and said hey we're coming over you know maybe we need for breakfast and we need to hash out a few things i mean giuliani if you love him or hate him he knows how the system works it seems to be very unusual unless they just wanted publicity and as i said

in my introduction sent a warning your take go ahead in las vegas. i think it's bifurcated i think part of it is an intimidation effort it's an effort to send a message to anybody who is part of trump world to send a message also to anybody who may have blown the whistle on international corruption involving our current president and i think the reason for it is because they're seeking both information about the relationship between giuliani and trump and what he said in 2019 during impeachment proceedings when he was his lawyer but also looking at all the sources of information and intel that giuliani obtained and who and where he had seen that from and i think that's the other people they're sending a message to that if anybody was trying to blow the whistle on say ukrainian corruption now they have a message that if they reach out to even the president of the then president ited states lawyer that their information can be subject to search and seizure so there's no normally this is done by a subpoena process it's done that way because of constitutional concerns about the attorney client relationship as well as 4th amendment concerns and whistleblower

protections and they circumvented all of that by this blunt raid on basic core constitutional rights and liberties of the american people ok let's go back it's go to robert it lanta bifurcated that's how robert in las vegas put it that way i can agree with that there how do you see it robert go ahead well we've seen the previous will trump associates who the f.b.i. believe that they were at your site or that they destroyed documents being right and that's it was a roger stone because remember it's a cold spot thing and rate of the president's when he was taken to be our manager was another one bur he was attempting to influence the jury even from the prosecution and so you can from jail where there were concerns about uses you so i don't think that this this is outside of the lines of things that have been previously well well well to giuliani then basically flouting the law he's been great he's running a shadow war and elsewhere it's a part of the shadow secretary state ukraine very trump administration at the.

f.b.i. will not be taking these actions will not without strong and clear and can get together. and we have better or worse working in this country and we have progressed in our federal government they're building this nature well i mean the trust is getting a big thing in my friend i'm sorry i mean look at the that that couple in alaska i mean their door broken down you know thinking that they stole nancy pelosi as a lab but that's a topic for another program unfortunately andrew how do you look at all of this i mean i willing to give robert in atlanta some points there ok but this is the former attorney of the president of the united states and giuliani's claiming and we're just going to say that it is his claim that information from his clout was being accessed during the 1st impeachment process i don't know if that's true or not giuliani makes a lot of claims that it's all be fair about that ok he makes a lot of claims all right but i like the fact that you know we have this attorney

that we're relationship this is something i find very very disturbing because i think it is selectively we will look at that file we won't look at that file i don't have that trust you andrew well no and you all things being equal right if this was the f.b.i. of let's say the f.b.i. has been politicized for many years certainly under j. edgar hoover there was a period of time in the post hoover era where it wasn't so politicized but we now know and we've known for the last 56 years that the f.b.i. has been thoroughly compromised by politics so we have to take these tactics certainly within that i was going to grain of salt within that prism but we have another another really important issue here which is the issue of the logan act which is what i've always thought that that's what they were going to go after rudy giuliani for which is this idea that unless you are an official representative of the united states government then you can't go around negotiating terms even if you are the lawyer for the president of the united states in fact that's very much the basis of the logan act the problem with the logan act is that it is

a purely political law it's only used to go after someone's. calamities and so it begs the question where was the f.b.i. if they're going to go after rudy giuliani for violating the logan act how come they're not going to go after john kerry who is certainly running to the edge of not over the edge of that act throughout the trump presidency talking to every foreign leader in the private not every foreign leader but you know in the middle east certainly acting as though he were representing the interests of the united states and telling these leaders you can talk to me don't talk to the orange man in washington d.c. because we're going to take power again in a couple of years and we were going to reinstate all of these treaties that we had with you before ok well robert i mean i think the logan act but also more specifically the far act ok being a foreign agent for a for a government here i mean if that is the standard then half of washington d.c. oh excuse me 90 percent of washington d.c. func they all function as a foreign agents for one country or another it's called lobbying ok so i mean i

wasn't good to throw it in so early in the game here but what about what about hunter biden go ahead robert in las vegas. yes i mean no doubt the disparity here is striking i mean let's flip the script if this was the same story but it was russia and putin was going after the lead lawyer of his lead political opponent the entire west would be in an uproar they would be demanding massive sanctions that would be coming that they do this over a joke of a guy so that's how we should look at that filter if we look at it from that perspective we see it for the political weaponization that it is both of the foreign agents registration act and the logan act very rarely criminally prosecuted major constitutional free speech problems with any prosecution under those laws and they're highly politically selective and there's no better evidence of that than this case where you have a 2 tier justice system once again on full display because you're 100 biden who clearly was doing that kind of illicit foreign lobbying while dad was vice president and making the biden family rich who is not being prosecuted and not only

not being prosecuted when. giuliani offered them the laptops and offer them the hard drives which legally they should have taken under the warrant they refused to because they were terrified of having it in their custody and possession so this 2 tiered system of justice exposes that the entire motivation for this search warrant is political not legal not criminal not constitutional ok robert atlanta you want to push back on that go ahead. i just find it odd that in under biden's become the bookie man of the right we're all evil things you don't hold more than a not shall not be spoken let's trust in our and be entrusted to promote justice system when it comes to surrey searching war zone where we don't seem to have endorsed or observed when it comes to wealthy always is what we have people in the streets protesting saying that we can't trust law enforcement always in the works that are entitled to what we say we can't trust the deal jane 1st yeah yeah i was there also long before but somehow better. that is in the realm of possibility i

think we have to have one sort of order same set of rules for the rich and they will be giuliani knows he will flouting the law and coming to steps that will be met another federal law and that each of us but that we need 2 things come down when he will die in this matter i don't think the political prosecution so much is people are floating in the last united states of america now they're having. a well i mean andrew i mean you could turn that on its on its head as well i mean you have i don't know how many hundreds of people in our are implicated in the in the the junes the january 6th riot on the capitol i mean i mean people are are losing their who are highly hoods because of the f. the d.o.j. investigation for the crime of loitering yeah well let's listen let's let's let's take it take a step back and talk about what robert said for a minute which is it would be one thing if the f.b.i. for we didn't know that the f.b.i. had become thoroughly politicized we spent the last 5 years talking about it we

have the e-mails we have the discussions we know who was talking to who and their political allegiances at work and what they were saying behind the scenes so the idea that the f.b.i. now in the new era under merit gardens leadership of the justice department is not going to be politicized is ludicrous but pushing back on the other part of this which is this is the great failure of the last 10 years in terms of talking about policing and abuses of power but we know. we know that government agents will abuse their power and it's something that can impact anyone and the more we try to separate and divide people and say well it only goes after this group that's nonsensical the reality is for far too long abuse of power by law enforcement in america has been a massive issue and we need to be focusing on that for a nano 2nd there i think all of us agreed right there a whole there are let me let me go to robert in las vegas finish it up before we go to the break i had robert yes i mean i agree entirely that raids like brown and taylor's are

a were completely inappropriate the way they were done with police officers shooting everywhere but that doesn't excuse the political weaponization of the justice department as has been going on now for really ever since j. edgar hoover is there it's just it's political direction has slightly shifted in the sense of who it is now targeting and so the same problems exist in the same problems weren't remedy this was something that should have been resolved with a subpoena not a search warrant and it raises serious problems for everybody who cares about one rule of law in america even robert if i can say with you in las vegas i mean we're never getting 40 seconds or we could ever find out the origins of the russian hoax go ahead 30 seconds go ahead. well the same week of the giuliani raid we found out the f.b.i. had been a listen we spying on people again through the fisa court for the last 3 years so i don't think we're ever going to get to the bottom of it who knows where john durham is or even if he still exists these days that's the nature of the political weaponization of the process we see today that's a dreadful state of affairs here gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on criminal

justice stay with arkie. we start with the cause or at least so you can each other than the human one. but on the better side of the day the booklist missile that this isn't just. some of. the emotion lining 2 months ago if you will still be stuck on this little silly question can you mrs cheney of. orthodoxy of the church. compassion that. we think she minds be. soldier because of the

boot she's wearing. to church so sold out so to move to a possible to put your mother with you then you're going to share stuff with some russian police force to just hold. thank. the world is driven by shaped by those great. no dares thinks. we dare to ask.

for more flames because that's the skies that you think at least must one see the movie would deal with both because the muslims and. then we can learn them with a bunch of variants and. blessed with muslim free was one of the for. sure i knew because i had something serious to push to respond to and stuff more than others teach. my shoes. so what males have tended to do and still do is is we tend to we certainly have empathy all of that but we also tend to do nurture through aggression so we create things like like us soccer and football and you know all of the various hundreds of

games that involve aggression now women are aggressive and can play those games no doubt very well but when you go back to why they were created those jobs were created for males to nurture other males to aggression to teach them how to be a catholic's through aggression. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing criminal justice. ok let's go back to atlanta robert i mean i'm sorry i'm very very cynical when it

comes to this i you know i it's not that i distrust the the f.b.i. when republicans are in power i don't trust the f.b.i. when the democrats when i just don't trust the f.b.i. ok full stop ok unfortunately there is too many stories to a litany of stories of things that have gone wrong here but i mean it seems to me i mean if we're looking at the timing and all of this this is a shot across the bow at giuliani a very high profile figure i mean everyone in america knows who he is again love him or hate him and his very close relationship with donald trump this sends a signal to a lot of people may be true may not be true but the anyone in terms of our inner circle is going to be looked at very carefully they're not going to use subpoenas to get to keep using these tactics here because it creates fear and i don't disconnect this all to the upcoming trial we don't know when it's going to be of the january january 6 riot and i think there's connections here to be made go ahead robert. anything that we all can come she brought agree at least

a law enforcement's country for this time provide for some agreement and the united states house united states senate and want to get something done howards you need these organizations or the movie does want to get your juice into what sorry about f.b.i. cia infiltration of. rights. which were launched you in that you tube which were spearheaded by the federal government to the rights leaders i will. it's all that matters between hoover and more or he encouraged to kill himself and so the f.b.i. will destroy you so i don't think you'll get any respect from democrats or anybody on the left side of the oh so we're going to reform just the b.o.j. the f.b.i. and other so i think this is a prime threat leadership because you could come to a bipartisan agreement or. some organization which didn't mean it you can you do it it's going to stop me generation robert i don't think you're going to get an argument from anyone on that and i think we absolutely agree with you here but let

me go to andrew i mean you know look at the case of roger stone i mean did you have to break into his house house in the morning at 6 o'clock in the morning call c.n.n. you know have it all on display everyone that was in trump's orbit the ones that got convicted of something they were all process crimes that had nothing to do with anything else that was being investigated here and it just seems that this is just a pattern here and it looks like to me it's payback it's payback big time from the answer that we got from robert in las vegas in the 1st place is that you know rudy could be a threat to a lot of different people and they're not taking any chances go ahead sure and to get back to to the earlier point which is about the history of the f.b.i. and whether or not we can reform things the problem of course is that the prevailing party in power wants to hold on to that power this is why we haven't seen any sort of major major taking back of the power out of the executive branch right everybody was afraid that donald trump was some kind of authoritarian fascist

and what donald trump tried to push that power of the executive branch that had been that had been centralized over the last 25 years back in the congress and congress you know they pushed back i wrote an op ed just around the time of donald trump was elected saying listen now would be a great time if you're afraid of donald trump and you're afraid of donald trump being elected now would be the time for democrats and republicans to come together and assert more of that legislative power put the power. back where it is we're all in agreement the people want to see a lot of these reforms but the people in power who are making those decisions they don't want to see those reforms and it's absolutely true the abuse of power of the 1960 s. should have led to a massive curtailment of those kinds of powers they were in the case of the cia and not elsewhere but but the progressive left wanted to maintain some aspect of control over that power well you know and hoping congress is going to do something you know if it does it just a lot of cowards ok and grifters i guess my it's my opinion here robert let me go

back to you and las vegas here one thing that's i think what again this is called crossed out but we're beginning to agree on things here which worries me is just it you know you know i'm looking at the you know christopher ray's f.b.i. it seems to me that he may not be is politicizes people claim but he's just protecting the f.b.i. that's what he's doing he's protecting the institutional power of the f.b.i. which should terrify all of us ok because that means there's no accountability go ahead in las vegas precisely i mean since we had mohler who was approved by both w. and obama and now we have ray who got in under trump and is continuing under biden it's a reflection of the long shadow of j. edgar hoover on the institution of the f.b.i. the f.b.i. was created by him molded by him established by him and that's why we see the problems we saw with cointelpro we're seeing today just with a different political target exactly fortunately while i agree that there should be

a right left coalition on reforming the f.b.i. on reforming federal law enforcement on stripping all law enforcement all politicians of qualified immunity the practical and functional reality is that the neo liberal democratic class and deep state operators currently in control have no interest in that their goal is to protect the institutions at all costs this is as much a deep state war on giuliani as it is any kind of democratic. or biden war on giuliani and that's the deeper concern that the deep state increasingly runs our federal law enforcement policy not the constitutional restraints and restrictions that should be there governing and guiding like ok well robert it in atlanta i mean i can you know there's so many if you know jeffrey abstain what happened there nobody knows i mean it happened an institution in the control of the department of justice but nobody knows what happened ok how did this russia hoax thing start apparently nobody knows ok because it's this professional managerial class they all protect

themselves i i really get sick and tired of you know the left that works as a right you know there is elements of that there is a real cultural war and i don't deny that but you know they're protecting their in situational power and then taking potshots at each other across the aisle to make it make it seem that people that these people in power really can't they really don't care and the f.b.i. just protects power that's the way i look at it republican democrat and everything else in between go ahead robert what we've seen in the past so particular in the polls warrior's a world war 2 as the moving of many of the democratic process he's away from the congress away from the presidency and centralized into the administering a state great american bureaucratic state so you have an answer what. is not and what that position be trying to generals out and what was issued and the people have tremendous power over a lot. of american federal bureau bureaucracies the american people fear you're

not worried about the i arrest them yeah the a.t.f. might come through your guns the d.o.j. wants your doc to be f.b.i. like georgie something which you in a global you'll never end but it's how you get out of your whole life ruined so we do start feeling that thing you need a people already because apparently we're ok and so do same thing as democrats when they're at work so we need to find a way for the american people to search for true. whether transfusions or groups are intended to have great american industry and state which isn't used to back liberties of the american people in general so i guess again i'm so surprised that we're agreeing on something here andrew you know it you know it you know this lately has got it we we have it into a group public and democrat i don't care who it is you know there is a war on whistleblowers though both didn't die if they support us over but they always are but then the d.o.j. and the f.b.i. and everybody else and their grandmother is leaking to the press anonymous sources ok they never go to prison for it though it's illegal but then you have

a legitimate whistleblower and they are and their hounded ok and the people in power they do with in punitive look like comi was doing in the same day you know say. the the the the 5 says ok then the next hour then within the same day his colleagues how it's obvious that we didn't we can't verify we can't we all know this to be true but where he's not in cuffs somebody else it was and well that's absolutely true this issue of accountability in terms of abuse of powers and listen the good the great failures among the trump of ministration was not holding some of the the abuse of power situations of the obama administration accountable but let's also not not gloss over the amount of irony here is that donald trump part of the reason why team trump and the folks around donald trump are being so heavily pursued by the folks who are in power and folks who want to maintain the power of the minister of state is a donald trump was the 1st president in a generation to actually work to make the functions of the administration the

ministry of state more transparent more countable and to curtail the reach of that power in very real and meaningful ways the size and scope of federal bureaucratic power actually shrunk under donald trump's presidency even as he was trying to push some of that power back to congress and so what happens within the 1st week that joe biden takes office come iris takes office 2 of the transparency and accountability executive orders donald trump in. amended in terms of the administrative state they were out the window things are less transparent and less accountable now and it's all because of things decisions that joe biden and kamel iris made when they came in office yeah but it's got to las vegas here but you know i mean again i agree with andrew here i mean this characterization from the left you know that he trump was a tyrant and you know if he's a dictator and all that you know robert in las vegas how many times the term say you know let's declassify this and then you hear crickets the president laid out in

states is ordering his underlings de classified crickets crickets and they just ran out the clock ok why because a professional manner jury all state decided you know the unelected powers of the country said no and you know what nothing happened go ahead robert oh exactly i mean i called confession through projection so there's a lot of into the me you know scandals involving allegations that the president was being co-opted and corrupted by a foreign power to influence an election that may have been true it just wasn't russian and it wasn't trump it was ukraine and it was by and i think if we go deeper and bigger broader in the other people we have to implicate here is the federal judiciary the federal judiciary is supposed to be interposing itself in protection of constitutional rights and liberties against the political weaponization of the federal law enforcement process and it continues to fail and this is true even at the state level in the earlier conversation about briana taylor that's a judge for failing to meaningfully review a warrant before authorizing it here we have the same process where as soon as

a judge saw this warrant for giuliani it should have been no it's a duty to go back to the protocols you need to make sure that you a protect attorney clearly client privilege information you need to show that you could not have got this through a lawful subpoena you need to show that this investigation isn't selective prosecution none of that was done because sadly our federal judges are turning a blind eye to constitutional liberty and care more about protecting that administrative deep state than they do. the constitution of the united states real quick do you think giuliani has a strong case to push back 10 seconds go ahead robert absolutely yes he would says he doesn't dershowitz has a great record all right gentlemen that's all the time we have many thanks and i guess in williamsburg atlanta and in las vegas and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkies see you next time we member.

a look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. must obey the orders given by human beings except when such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification or should be very careful about official intelligence and the point is to trust everyone in shia. areas playing with artificial intelligence was something to. the obama's protect its own existence which looks just. like. milton's i would say i'm not american but americans really.

world war 2 cures for the depression carson show should concern prosperity of course i'm sure. more than for us the whole world what it would and. historical rewrite. ever since world war 2 to foment the cold war against russia against communism of. socialists nish bush. the soviet army are you all close to strike we are so used to call them go. for it to world war 2 has been the story credibly by the anglo-american media and that's because they wanted to minish the role of russia. and stalin who actually defeated hitler.

he started to cause a need for good in each other than the human one. but on the but i'm going to do the work with the soul that this isn't just. me emotional running to be months ago i feel story least according to my source in the course before me which resists and that of all should. also go chill the fuck should. come from business compassion that. we thinking minds be soldier she's off the boat she's wearing. to church so much the soul looks like to believe the apostle opinion was in the book and like about the show stuck in the summer watching the police force sort of us all the.

headlines this hour facebook's oversight board upholds the network's ban on donald trump at least for now it will though critics to question the rulings impact on free speech online all started to come debate rages in france as it marks the death of a man accused of generous. side on whose balls cost millions of lives we look at whether 2 centuries on the podium merits today's fan the fair and celebrations for me to hear oh he did a lot for the evolution of france but it cost a lot of freedom a lot of sacrifice that the human level to that so obviously his big mistake may be to have reestablished slavery new york's governor touches a rolling earth by suggesting unvaccinated people should avoid their grandparents they made allegations his own mismanagement is to blame for nursing home.