it seems sameness i mean saying right you know it's easy if we have to say now i have to confess that up until recently i thought that this whole idea all i talk fast or anything was just a retort to what i'm going from here writing that the american psychological association has actually declared what it calls traditional masculinity as damaging to life is there not a way of saying that the last i don't know it's us we heard it wasn't years of human evolution and cultural evolution have essentially reached a row outcome you're absolutely right what they're trying to do is they're part of this movement and they're and it's just a division of the american psychological association but they the the a.p.a. gave this division the power to write these rules and and of course i and many others said no no no that that's that's not going to work. the core concept that i think they're trying to get at is that there are things that men do that are not

good right and we would all agree with that i mean there are things and there are things we do that are not good right absolutely so they're trying to get rid of those things but their approach is wrong headed and nonscientific because what they're trying to do is say that men do bad things let's say because they're social construct masculinity is flawed and the things that are flawed in it they say are aggression which is actually not flawed aggression is fine by lance is bad aggression is on the other thing is still ism they don't like still is and they say well men you know should everyone everyone should always talk about everything they're feeling and actually the science shows that's a bad idea the more you ventilate your feelings the more depressed you get right but for them they've got this academic feminist approach or what they call pro-feminist approach that makes those things bad. and they and they say those

things are bad because the social construct created them. even though aggression and stoicism are actually biological too but. dad exists also in emails i mean i actually was writing that already says many of us sometimes i can recreate recip now correct me if i'm wrong but from what i understand from psychology it's usually at impossible to clearly separate that's me and i think it's in an abuser especially in a span for a ship because they tend to be both at the same time there is a symbiotic great reinforcing relational dynamic. even if we accept that being a chart gave through our economic benefits so that we have been able to exist for so low cost so many centuries for millenia in fact without the latter women that i get something valuable out of it. yet it was

a response to what we call the patriarchy which we can see well represented like in judeo christian you know the bible that's good really represents patriarchy you can absolutely see it women don't vote women are you know they are 2nd class when they get is they're protected and right they get protection and they're provided for and what the men do is they seek to be alphas they seek to run things and what they get especially because they're worried and go to war is they get certain benefits that women don't yet and it was more i just have a higher chance of being killed i have exactly right and there are deficits for both absolutely and it was a logical response to population explosion because when we moved from tribal into agricultural rights around 10000 years ago populations are to explode and we had all of these people they had to be organized the patriarchy gradually developed you know so the patriarchy has to a great extent outlived its usefulness to

a great extent and women obviously are ascending and they don't need to have those deficits anymore and all of that is absolutely true but the toxic masculinity thing you know what what these folks try to do is they try to attach everything like masculinity they try to attach it to patriarchy and then say well you see we know that patriarchy wasn't a good idea or if it was it's not anymore so therefore masculinity is a bad idea from a security you mentioned the way they go that h.r.t. has its course and you know i don't for a 2nd should get a sort really large deficit of males that because of or you know right. aleutians fabens substance abuse like mission all the staffers happened to minutes you can get 4 or 5 generations of strong women who compete for man rather than i am for that $1.00 pay sharkey's ecology dream i mean it's raining mad how loop

bring it on they actually want more of it all that and. i wonder what the middle ground is a chart in the chart it could be any how did he call it i know human archy human that's good i like it well you have just you have just expressed that in russia for instance the patriarchy is sort of gun right women are running a lot now in terms of needing more men that's that's part of what we've got this problem with world wide in in as the world's sloughed off or much of the world decided that there are certain things about the past we didn't want anymore we also threw the baby out with the bathwater so the baby here was men and men development and we just said forget male development we're not going to do what males need to survive and thrive we are going to go ahead and you know they can go to war ok we'll let them die we'll put them in dangerous jobs and some men because they're

very smart and strong will climb to the top some will putin right climb to the top very smart and strong but but tens of millions of men and tens of millions of boys we're going to forget about it and that's what you know what the u.s. is struggling with what rate you're saying russia struggling with and that's the thing we now have to address and the middle ground is science based to me the middle ground is we take the politics out and we look at science we look at how the male brain develops we look at how the female brain develops we go deeper in to who we actually are and as we go deeper into who we actually are our societies will know how to help boys and girls serve by. i don't thrive now mr grimm you coined this term gender indifference and i think it's very important to you contrast understanding and they are correct ation are biological differences between men and women with the ideological negation of that which i think is bigger and sometimes

in the west what are some of the ways in which female and male brains are different . yeah well i'll give you the cute few quick ones one is that males do words on the left primarily on the left and females do words on both sides of the brain and that means males are also only males or behind females generally in reading writing and speaking just because we don't use as much of our brain for words but also we don't connect as many words to feelings as females do or words to emotions because females are doing that on both sides of the brain males are doing it on one side and connected to that is that females are using up to 10 times more white matter activity which is in the mylan and which spread signals throughout the brain instantaneously males are using more gray matter activity which happens in splotches in the brain. connected that is females do much of their brain life is in

the frontal lobe so all the different parts of the frontal and the frontal is impulse control executive decision making all of these things words studying all of that males do things further back in great better areas so those are just some of the hundreds of profound differences that affect the way that how how do we educate boys and girls our teachers don't know that we need them to know this or we lose a lot of boys in school you know etc and those are just 3 of hundreds if not i don't hear using a lot of brains chance in your quest to show how different it wasn't girls a man and women. process the same task so that it's striking to me how the latest science or it's the most ancient ideas about masculinity and economy. that sanity to being an insider or associate brat in chicken action and masculinity who are characterized by focus and nectar this commission says that our

forebears were able to be here that out long before admissions for and that i mean the machines for recognizing the difference in white matter and it rained matter integrating. oh i agree so when i do talks you know when i do lectures and so on i show i have a slide that i show that has a quote from a brain scientist and then right above it is from genesis you know and god created male and female and you can see way way back everyone use common sense and they understood that there was a profound male female difference and what the brain scans are certain is doing are just as you said just saying ok now we can really understand all the differences and then that whole system understand how to set up our social systems so that they serve women and they serve men they serve boys they serve girls and everyone on the spectrum if we don't know this stuff now this is when we create social systems like

school systems that don't support mainly males so that males are the ones that are struggling the most in school because none of the teachers were trained in this and so boys are getting in trouble for stuff that's just natural to them and that's actually ok and they're not able to do the words as well as females at center and so they get d's and f.'s or low grades and they flunk out. the schools is there and they were it exists today in most countries is a product of its 20th century and it's for the most part is so women dominated that women make up the majority of bad canters out stuff. but if i understand you correctly remember that chance you project lucky that values but that outweighs all being in this world on tuesday this whole next generation assuming that's the only way to be and no rape is a physical that in how boys and girls act relation job of human beings and when i

need to talk more about the deference that's been directed empathy. chicle at russian nurturance. ok yeah so the female brain not only some brain differences that also the hormone ology females have more oxytocin which is a direct bonding chemical and that and the mirror neurons in the insula in the middle you know where empathy happens in the female brain and mirror neurons last longer than in the male brain and so they have more and more direct empathy immediate and it lasts longer because they mirror the pain and someone else or even and they pick up facial cues and the person may not even be in pain but they see it as pain and they see it and you know and it's a beautiful thing it's part of why civilization exists because women have that capacity truly males on the other hand are mirror neurons get killed off more quickly because of our testosterone so testosterone is an aggression chemical and so what males have tended to do and still do is is we tend to we certainly have

empathy and all of that but we also tend to nurture through aggression so we create things like like soccer and football and you know all of the various hundreds of games that involve aggression now women are aggressive and can play those games no doubt very well but when you go back to why they were created those games were created for males to nurture other males to aggression to teach them how to be empathic through aggression and how to use aggression and the same is true now rough and tumble play is one of the best ways to get more of the brain to work in the frontal lobe actually which is what we want rough and tumble play so i've called that aggression nurturance and males not every male but males in the aggregate tend more toward aggression nurturance females in the aggregate tend more toward direct empathy nurturance and the key is not to get rid of either of these the key is to have both so females do it their way males do it their way we cross over of course there's overlap and that's how we raise and educate really so good

smart resilient kids we have to take care. very short break right now and we'll get back to the moment. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race is on very dramatic developments only i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. i think. there are things i would say i'm not american but americans helped out really. world war

2 cures the depression carson shows his concern prosperity of course in store. for the for us the whole world what it what and. historical rewrite ever since world war 2 to foment the cold war against russia against communism and. justice nish bush to the soviet all made out to all costs right we were to use could all go . well i think world war 2 has been distorted credibly by the anglo-american media and that's because they wanted to minish the role of russia. and stalin who actually defeated hitler.

southward to cause a. good in each. other than others. but on the better side going to the book are useless so that this news from you soon you instead of losing. me emotionally i mean she might just do i feel story a stock or the muscles from the course for new york which mrs jim but i'm sure mrs ford could fall for if you got children of truth. will settle into the business to compassion for them to know that. we think you mines be a soviet soldier she's also the boots she's wearing. to church so sold out so keep the opposing opinion more than we will be done you'll like it i'll be sure stuck to it in the summer watching the police forced to just hold.

on. welcome back to worlds apart that psychotherapist and best selling author at my book very serious. when you talk about. yes q initiate especially toxic restaurant i think it would be unfair that touches the subject of so many can especially toxic examiners yet i don't want to discuss it in moral terms i'm more interested in what is it in. women's and girls' biology and psychology that me make them unpleasant or even toxic well yeah anyone can be toxic and we always want to establish anyone i understand what you're getting at we don't you know because sometimes we popularly say girl drama

or girls can be really nasty to each other women can be can smile at you know someone but really think something very nasty behind their back and undercut and and yeah women do stuff like that all the time i mean everyone that's what's so bizarre about the conversation that we are we don't ever talk about toxics then and any we only talk about toxic masculinity when it would be better actually to i just think not use those terms and just say ok what is what is going on in women so if we look at what's going on in women that sometimes makes them self-destruct and harm others part of what's happening is they these rumination loops so the female brain takes in so much emotive jetta so much more than males picks up so many more facial cues so she takes all this in and she thinks things out and she's constantly processing 5 or 10 different things she met someone may roll her eyes at

her like roll her eyes she could think about that for 2 days and that's a rumination loop and these these loops warm in women's brains and girls brains that last a long time and then are fed by the hormone ology and so then girls without realizing it they go out and they do some very mean things and often they have it's not causal like the person really was not the means of them but they go. out and they you know undercut people they do cyber bullying they do all sorts of things that you're calling toxic they yeah that are and a lot of it goes back to how their brains work and people don't realize this about the female brain so so we will tend to say to females to girls will tend to say go ahead and express everything and really what we should be saying is we want to hear what you felt about that person rolling their eyes but then after that we need to problem solve this and reality check this and where there is actual trauma that

she's been put through you know sexual assault i mean there's so many traumas that a woman can go through ok then we really need to hear things for longer and get her therapy but we also need a reality check and stop the loops because those ruminations are really destructive to girls and women and then that's part of how they go out into the world and then they can even become violent. and i think for all those battles are now being waged has been parish and sort of spreading its value around the world including gender barriers and by that i mean really what you call gender indifference but also there is ideas about gender. how do you think obvious a side issue that approach it. i guess i think scientifically are right now we're in a phase in the us of saying there's no male female anymore everything's fluid etc but it doesn't really fit the science when we look at science and every culture can use

the same science if they go to green institute dot com which is my our site for our work you can see thousands of studies that show that sex is binary sex is male female that's binary that's biological and body and brain right male brain female brain are different coming on the x. in the eye chromosome that's sex and sex on the brain that's binary there are only 2 options male and female gender which is a social construct which is what you know what are you in russia what are they in saudi arabia what are we in the us what do what do we say socially about what we think masculine and feminine ought to be that's a social construct that is fluid because every society thinks of something different and then some cultures inside a society think something different but if we stay with sexes binary gender is fluid then we are covering everything else i think traditionally social

institutional base of a sex rather than gender that i descended and resurrections we should treat each other as human beings that we are bought when you are trying to build a reform asil institution christ said what degree of generalization you mentioned before that even right zeus asked this merril doing a. good job of you know how commentating are sex differences i can't imagine how you can build a functional system or what is it like more than that how different genders how many approaches just things socially he again i think is the chairman seems some of the western countries substitute sexual differences that gen. the difference is an xterm goes that's right i think it's an incredible chance i don't see how we can build anything that will actually save our kids. next problem and. the fact that

really are. you know patience and concern for each form of. yeah we have to set them up for sex we have to send all of our systems up to take care of the sex of the child 1st which is and will let me use an example of schools we we we can't we can't say to schools ok we've decided not for ideological reasons that you no longer have to pay attention to the fact that that kids have male brains and female brains they're boys and girls they're going to all be they and we're not going to pay any attention to it all we will do if we do that is we will increase the number of boys and girls who fail out of school who don't succeed in life you know because as you've just said sex on the brain is one of the primary drivers of human experience so we 1st have to create the system to take care of sex and then we can and then we can say to the system look you've we've got some exceptions who prove the rule in other words we have some folks who are gay right ok there are

exceptions but the system can take care of them we don't have to say they don't exist the system can take care of them. and partially because the system takes care of male and female and being gay is inside male and female also trans if we take your male and female we can take care of the people who are trans around point 3 percent. then we can study with scans we can see our trans you know so transsexual transgender we can take care of those people because we've taken care of male and female so we 1st take care of male and female and then we add on that is the best way to run the social system there's one more thing i want to touch and you know all of this is a concept that safe space. i find it highly ironic that as crime statistics for the united states is at record high there's so much discussion about creating a safe space at which sites will ever reason because humor i thought real here i

thought it was supposed to be safe i mean it wasn't ever supposed to be a safe human's outcry for all to all frustration well for total safety and if we cannot create a safe space inside our own psyche i don't understand how we can't get around that from other people. yes safe space started out is certain out it gets are no good what it was was our family should be a safe space and a counseling office should be a safe space and that's where the language came from because there was child abuse we tried to get you know homes to be safe and then counseling offices people got to be safe to express their trauma and their feelings and we can't judge so that's where it came from it was the right thing but then what happened is the culture got ahold of it and said ok. we i have this idea so my idea is whatever that person's ideas and then they said ok i need a safe space for that idea so now my university has to has to allow me to express

that idea even if it's you know not a very good idea and no one should argue with me because i need a safe space for my idea that is nuts so we need to get safe space me back to. home safe counseling office safe but other environments we should have great social arguments that mr gurr and i seem state government will occur that will be very sad. you know i think this is it always climbing in psychology that this country it ain't even want me being extremely valuable or acts that i'm doing in developing here and so i mean i wonder if there is any difference if they aren't a record levels of anxiety if your precious near us is that we can abstract observance our societies are these i can't say for everything even you can about him to say prove him alive when you know that some degree of frustration related to become

a mature form of being there are absolutely that's why i think the concept of aggression nurturance is so is actually such a good concept because and women can use aggression nurturance because what it says is actually if we want resilience if our goal is to build resilient children who can grow up to become resilient adults then they need to have more discomfort not abuse not abuse not rape not sexual assault none of that they should be safe from that but they need to have discomfort they need to have people push back and challenge them and be aggressive with them not violent that's something else but aggression nurturance and here's one of the best ways we know we're right is it used to be that we were told that no germs that note that children should never get germs and now we know loops actually that was wrong we need little children to be exposed to these aggressive toxins which are germs we need them to be exposed to

that aggression so that they develop the immune systems and the antibodies and the same thing is true of psychology we need to keep them safe from violence yes but not from challenge and not from discomfort they should have some frustration yes. great stuff it's been fascinating talking to. you thank you thank you and thank you for watching to syria next week on worlds apart. bottom.

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big day here in russia as this kind of breaks these 76 on the 1st 3 off the red army armies victory over nazi germany and the great patriotic war. the little troops marched through red square and the aircraft flying overhead as most go witness there's a stunning military parades commemorating victory day all correspondents were following it for us on the ground so as not to miss a single detail we'll give you a taste of their emotions later on in the program. bed gomer.