happens defenses in britain. as a report. should be. breaking news for you this hour at least 7 children and a teacher killed in a mass shooting at a school in the russian city of design and information coming from local authorities at least 16 others have been injured while the shooter is being captured by police. to be part of the way to escape this. city a flare up in violence. and the worst tension in years between israel and palestine dozens of killed in schools more injured after hundreds of strikes and huge protests. also on the way a german m.

paid bashes his country's government for waiting for e.u. approval of a russian. cost lives today from the party vented his frustration to r.t. about his country's vaccination campaign this during his trip to moscow to get. my trust in the federal government is low. is great. very good afternoon thanks for joining us here on r.t. international where we will start this hour with our breaking news story coming out of russia at least 8 people including 7 children in a teacher have been killed 16 others have been injured in a mass shooting at a school in the city of. i must warn you might find some of the scenes in images we're about to show you disturbing including this video coming out now of a mother of a student at the school as she was pleading for. on

the whole can spin following the story alongside me. the figure is the information that's been coming in has been has been changing with each passing hour how do we understand the situation as it is now. well the situation is under control as much as it can be of course initial reports came in that there were 2 shooters involved in his college at tac we understand now those only one a shooter and he has been detained alive by the security services here into the school or our 9 am local time or just before 10 am local time entering at the ground floor and targeting both peoples and teachers as he made his way up the

floors. this is really the worst nightmare for for parents we saw the front cries for help from that mother show up on the scene to see cars to do what you could. pupils escape to run away from the school work the shooting took place they lay on the grass outside with people giving whatever 1st they could to those kids and teenagers injured in this attack shockingly perhaps as the attack took place an attack and made his way up the floors many children were forced to actually jump from the top floors of the school it's a 3 or 4 story building and we've seen quite shocking very distressing mobile phone footage of children choosing to jump from the school top floors rather than confront this this attacker. now police were quickly in attendance over 20 ambulances and up in terms of figures as you say we understand. 87 or 8 fatalities so far among them of course many children and at least 16 in

hospital many of those in critical condition the medical health care department of the republic has called for people to donate blood the health minister has said people come in from 7 am tomorrow to donate blood and we've seen images on social media. people already arriving to hospitals and queuing offering to donate blood for those in critical condition not a lot of putin russian president has been made aware he's already sent his condolences as well as a plane full of specialist medics and specialist psychologists being put together to be sent to the republic so often whatever help they can also reports from the kremlin he's altered farms laws to be looked at again we understand this shooter was a legal owner of the farm itself. escort hunting rifle was legally owned and in the days leading up to the attack when the stanley park just

around $150.00 rounds of ammunition in preparation for what he was about to do rush hour of course a lot of country commonly associated with these sorts of massacres this is truly something you don't see very often at all which makes it all the more shocking for the republican to leave for the country. and as you said not often we hear about major shooting incidents in schools in russia there was one i think 3 years ago in which was this some some similarity in terms of what happened there to what we're seeing today you know that's correct and certainly a copycat attack will be one of the motives that investigators will be looking at the last such major incidents was indeed in the republic of crimea in one of the cities in carrots in october 28th teen 18 year old former student let us laugh it off the cough entered the school and killed 20 people injuring 60 the fatality rate there higher than in this incident and indeed one of the similarities in particular

the foreign news the hats and escorts of the turkish maid automatic shotgun it was the same rifle used in both incidents and it's relatively easy and inexpensive talked saying between 304-0000 roubles that's $3.00 to $400.00 pounds probably around $500.00. can be licensed questions will be asked why a 19 year old was allowed to purchase this farm which can cause such damage and such injuries. photos coming in images coming in from the school of total chaos and destruction blood on the floor very very shocking indeed and it's testament to that . that the kremlin has responded so quickly and said we need to look at how this was obtained and if needed to bring in restrictions on what weapons are available to civilians for. the background checks for the mental health checks to prevent this sort of thing happening again and as the investigation. goes on we'll get more

information on what caused this man. to do such a heinous act was it a mental health issue was it a personal grudge was it terrorist inspired we just don't know at this stage it's all speculation. and carries on over the coming days we'll get more information. as well as security services of course officials have arrived on the scene including the president of the other star who arrived within an hour and a half or so he gave this brief comment at the scene of the attack just a little earlier. but. first of all this is a huge tragedy we've lost 7 children great 8 students 4 boys 3 girls they died right here on the 3rd floor we have all our correspondent on his way to go there will be there a little bit but little later the city's around 800 kilometers from moscow so it's

going to take a few hours to get there in the meantime we have some reports from local journalists local stringers iraq at the scene this is one of them a journalist who arrived just in the aftermath of the attack. through a translator a bit more about what exactly happened about 9 am i heard several loud bangs from the school area i live nearby after the shots there was a pause for about 2 minutes and then another round of bangs about 10 overall after that there was the sound of an explosion then students proceed on mass running away from the school the security services acted very quickly in about 10 minutes we heard sirens then now billons is right and started treating the injured after about 40 minutes the area was cordoned off while nearby kindergartens were evacuated. and is it on who can bring is the latest information in the sort of get some more analysis now on for the pingers he's a former senior military intelligence and security officer joins me on the line now

. you coming on. the this minute picture that we have of waters happened it starts off extremely confusing slowly clarifies with time we hear now that the shooter had a registered firearm and maybe differs from country to country but generally how hard is it to get registered and get your hands legally on a gun and what kind of checks go into that is this literally just background checks for a criminal record or any kind of assessment of someone's mental status. well again you've hit the nail on the head and differ so much from country to country you know if we look at the united states in some states you don't need any checks whatsoever before you can buy a firearm. or almost semiautomatic firearms through a supermarket whereas you come to the united kingdom which has got some of the most restrictive firearms laws were you will have background checks criminal record checks. your doctor will be to sign the firearms

certificate application to make sure that there are no mental health conditions and you get everything in between exactly what the russian rules are i don't know what i'm listening to the commentary that's coming out from moscow and from what president putin is saying they have got checks in place and it's making sure that those checks could cover this event to others here however no matter how hard you check you're never going to be able to cover every eventuality. hawkins in this correspondent we understand neil was saying that a security source that services have confirmed this forum was legally owned it was a escort shop garnett's. not a faction in turkey it's commonly used as a as a hunting far this is an assault rifle of any sort. it was also used as we understand in the curch polytechnic massacre back in 2018 in crimea. could one theory be here that this could be inspired by that attack some sort of

copycat incident went to start the foreign was relatively cheap to obtain just what sort of impact do you think that could have had on what's happened today because. it's a possibility and this is what the police will be looking into what was it that motivated the individual copycat attack possibly but only if the individual was following what was going on or reading about it and everything else was copycat attacks tend to happen within the days weeks. months after a major incident so it's the police will be trying to do the got the individual secure its work you know what his motivation was behind carrying out the attack and then trying to identify if there's any way that they could have put mechanisms in place or could still put mechanisms in place to try and stop those motivations happening elsewhere and of course there will be alerts for other people potentially carrying a copycat attacks in other parts of britain for that we heard from

a local correspondent russian correspondent in close proximity to where the attack occurred they they said that rigidly that he had a lot of conflicting information coming out but they were very close to the scene and said they were hearing that there were 3 assailants we were hearing here too they were hearing on the ground 3 how difficult does that make the scenario for those 1st responding police officers because if they think that potentially those 2 more out there than there are does not slow down the process does it slow down medical aid getting into the people who need it if they're having to still be aware we can't go in yet. it's very difficult and the one thing that all the security services and the russian police counter-terror police or the quick reaction place like this are very highly trained they know that the confusion comes in so they go into a series of drills and then start to look at the information that they've got a narrowed down you know if you get 3 reports from 3 different people saying that heard 3 different shooting incidents from 3 different parts of the school lot of

medical assume that there's. potentially 3 different shooters there until they narrow that information on themselves and they know that this happens and that's part of the way they will approach dealing with the situation and yes it could have an impact on how quickly you can get medical services in it could have an impact on how many police are needed before they'll go on look at potentially assaulting buildings and all the rest of it but one of the 1st things that any security organization will do as it's going in to this is to confirm confirm what's going on clear the area of incidence cordon it off control what's going on and then react to what it is up there that it is a remarkable feat for those 1st officers who go in that are trying to deal with the situation trying to assess it assess the situation gather all that information process it try and make the correct decisions and how much difference does it make to the response if they believe that there is perhaps a former pupil of teenagers who believe in this circumstance or possibly

a form of people or whether they believe that this is a terrorist attack. this is an approach in exactly the same way the assume the worst they'll deal with it in a very professional way as professional as they can and they'll go through a series of drills your little practice this time after time after time and certainly after the best attack in 2004 and the kurds have taken 28 team the russian police and their acquitted of the swat teams up we've seen going in here we'll have practiced this again and again and again against these different scenarios and against other scenarios the theme here frighteningly seems to be schools again. i'm presuming it's absolutely impossible to prevent they tell it if someone goes in with a gun into into a school and what's the kill people that people are going to die i don't it's difficult but if you look at the time frame it appears you know possibly 2 to 3 hours the whole thing occurred in the number of fatal it is we believe it stands at

around 8 how unusual or usual is that in a circumstance like this where someone has gone in clearly deciding to cause maximum harm. well you know guns are designed for one thing and one thing only to kill. for someone to go in. to destroy your walking through school and all the rest of it and with you you said earlier that he did purchase $150.00 rounds of ammunition let's assume he was carrying those and we don't know that per se but if he had that could have 150 people dead so the fact there is it. is shocking in itself but there's no correlation between the weapons that someone carrying the month of ammunition who got worthy or there's so many variables in the will have an influence on the casualties and when there's an incident like this i presume that one of the things

that the police have to be concerned about and the earth or it is that it might not be isolated think there could be other incidents perhaps it's coordinated perhaps there are other people working with this assailant which means widespread and presumably it takes some time before they can say ok we don't believe there is a further threat. it is you know one of the biggest priorities the police will got will be to try to identify what why this individual went in did what he did and that will then lead to potential so see it's understanding where there are of the threats elsewhere as we've seen across europe in 260-2017. attacks him multiple places in paris and elsewhere. through multiple groups over and over similar periods of time and the police will want to rule out as quickly as possible so that they can get the message out to the public and get public reassurance that they've got the individual the big advantage that they have this moment in time is

that in most cases the perpetrator is shot dead by the police here they've got an ally so that they can interrogate him and find out from him what his motivations are but certainly will be able to identify you were he lives. look at any computer material that he's got to get anything else in where he lives who associate with and speak to them and see what they know about this picture done much more quickly than if they just had a body there and they didn't know who it was we've mentioned it differs from country to country how prevalent attacks in schools shooting incidents in schools are so every country will deal with it differently obviously any parent one thing else will be just wanting to make sure their child is safe when they go to school what do we learn from other countries from their approach to dealing with these kind of attacks has has it has it been effective if you bring in more security if you have people's checked close personal checks before they go does it does it make a difference does it improve security or not. it doesn't doesn't. it which is

a bit of a wishy washy answer in some places there's a lot of security in place it doesn't seem to stop shooting you have to have a balance between what is an oppressive regime for children going about learning in a normal environment in a normal society you know these hit the headlines well outside the united states are incredibly incredibly rare the united states is a different matter there seems to be an increasing number of shootings across society and in schools especially they have got a real problem but they've got a real problem with gun laws the through the rest of the world where there is a greater degree of control of gun laws you can't let one incident like this dictate it the whole way schools operate it schools will bring in standard operating procedures they will have their staff practicing them they will have in

some places pupils practicing them in the same way that you have fire drills if they believe that that is a high enough threat to the school in that area and forward thinking teachers will make sure that all of these sorts of things are practiced on a regular basis as appropriate without trying to scare people and scare parents you know if you're running this as a drill every week i think parents would be more scared he talked about the danger of creating what might be an almost an oppressive regime where you have people feeling like they're stepping into a war zone almost feeling as though it's inevitable that there will be some kind of incident if that's how it's treated specialist such as yourself have discussions maybe with local authorities or with individual schools i don't know about what is best for that particular school how big is the threat and mental health must be i would of thought something that comes into the conversation. i guess again it depends on the country and depends on the authorities but yes security professionals do said done with the education authorities will discuss

a wide range of threats you know whether it be an active shooter in the u.k. very unusual or with or known harms or whether it be other other types of threats and when incidents happen. they're. providing that mental health support to the staff and to the pupils and to the parents as well is is very important but also in looking at the measures that you get employers looking at how that has an impact on the mental health of children staff and everything else is something that has to be considered you have people have to go through prison style gets and how of. a press of c.c.t.v. identity cards to get anywhere and everywhere and every door is locked in a school that's more like a prison than a school and that will have a greater effect on the mental health of those that are working there and those that are trying to learn they're. having more passive mechanisms and we don't know the situation here but often injured school shooting is is a form of people who is disturbed for something that has happened to them while

they've been at school they bear some kind of grudge against that you know the place where they were educated what it seems to me what we're seeing here is the symptom it's not the cause how much conversation takes place about what makes these pupils and up like this and what more can be done to prevent them becoming this way in the 1st place well again it's an assumption that it could be a former pupil we don't know at this stage of course there's a lot of a lot a lot will go into the analysis of that and trying to look at understanding as i said what motivated the individual to do this and through that understanding then the lessons were brought out of the sorts of things to look for so looking to see whether there are changes in family circumstances changes in individuals behavior. is the potential that they have been abused groomed or anything else and bringing all these indicators and warnings in place and often the very very subtle. and in

some cases they don't exist you can't protect against this sort of thing 100 percent of the time and but you can have mechanisms and players were you can reduce the potential for it to happen. and the absolute minimum unfortunately in most countries around the world this sort of shooting is very very rare indeed i just want to ask you about the role that social media plays maybe it seems very much on the circumference of what's happening but we saw the video footage of what appeared to be a concerned mother rushing to the school and then finding out the incident was still ongoing now it makes it very easy to pass a story on that something's happening often with very incorrect information something's happening at the school it can have an effect on what actually happens in the school maybe the pupils react how parents react i just wondered how you feel about this in terms of the positives and the negatives. social media is part of

many ways in that it can get the information out very quickly that there's a threat in a particular area but it can be very dangerous in the it is getting snapshots of information and i liken it to trying to take in a complete picture of a massive city but looking through a drinking straw you're only seeing what's in a tiny tiny little bit of screen for that tiny moment in time about individuals or you're not seeing the big picture however. individuals who could be involved in it who may have other loved ones involved in it will try and bring a bigger picture together from what little bits they're seeing and that can be dangerous the authorities will recognize up and they'll gather as much as they possibly can from social media it will help them build a picture up much more quickly and then again from your water profession and in the press it's very easy to focus on a snapshot and extrapolate a little bit too much and this is where we got you know the reports of 2 shooters 3

shooters coming in initially because people will have seen this on social media 1st and foremost but the power of social media is phenomenal and. it's not something that you can control it's not something probably that should be controlled but it's something that the authorities need to be aware of and that individuals need to be aware of whenever they're seeing things in the picture that they get just because there's a bit of video is not 100 percent and there's going to be much more to it yet and often you see media organizations filled you know not intentional that they're all by information that comes in that they consider credible on the flip side on the short term maybe this the impact of social media can have quite a negative effect after an incident can it be useful in compiling a big picture of what have i done just thinking for example i've already seen video coming from supposedly inside the school showing the effects of an explosion we've heard reports that there could have been an explosion the social media comment is useful. afterwards when this time to actually go through all of the extra video and

photos that's out there well it's very useful for the authorities to get the real picture out and therefore it's important that the authorities have. credible social media presence where they can put the actual picture out and formal assessments from all of their multiple sources so they can deal with the rumors the mistruths everything else could be there whether there's any value from pictures of explosions or in the aisles i really don't think so because the explosions could have been from the individual bring you something in it could have been from the police going in and throwing flash bangs into rooms to. disable individual before the went in and arrested them you don't know weren't you you people who are not trained in this sort of thing do they really need to know that you have to ask yourself that question the reality is probably not you know that relates sort of the information coming really appreciate you and your analysis for it really helps

all others to understand a little bit better what's what's going on in a confusing situation thanks so much philip ingram is my guest former military intelligence and security officer. ok watching r.t. international just to recap for you just joined our breaking news story coming out of russia this hour at least 8 people including 7 children want teacher have been killed 16 others injured this is a mass shooting that's occurred at a school in because this information is according to the press service of the time stan republic which has and is the capital of the city itself located just over 800 kilometers away from moscow the attacker has been captured it's reported that this was a 19 year old who had a gun registered in his name children have been evacuated from the site below 30 to claim that the situation is now under control i must warn you are going to be showing you lots of video footage and photographs recorded at the scene you may find some of these images disturbing. you.

should. you know what. i just. want to get a more complete picture of what was happening on the ground because and we spoke with a local journalist max is a risky he talked to story of how the incident unfolded about 9 am i heard several loud bangs from the school area i live nearby after the shots there was a pause for about 2 minutes and then another round of bangs about 10 overall after that there was the sound of an explosion then students proceed on mass running away from the school the security services acted very quickly in about 10 minutes we heard sirens then now balances right and started treating the injured after about

40 minutes the area was cordoned off while nearby kindergartens were evacuated. ok let's bring another guest we can speak to former u.k. police officer p.c. kirk i'm joined myself and daniel on the line now appreciate your time peter we're hearing that president putin has said that good morals are going to be. reviewed in an ideal scenario how would you like to see the whole system dealt with in terms of what new information is required before you will administer a legal gun to somebody. i think we could go a number of a number of ways forward in terms of legislation. personally i think the focus rather than on legislation rather than on than on policing rather than off is equal security of schools rather than on the presence of armed officers in the vicinity of schools or in schools themselves personally i think that the problem. the social

problem is child and adolescent mental health and that in i think all countries to be fair that is lacking in considerable degree so to the situation in the u.k. is the polling state of affairs i would be availability of support for young people who see show the early signs of serious mental health issues and all the attackers that we have heard about how the years primarily in the us but also elsewhere. not all show signs of potential. tragic outcomes like this will someday. and in many cases those symptoms are own addressed and certainly not addressed as thoroughly as possible and so if we have a focus on one thing go outside i heard that was probably the priority but in relation to legislation we've seen in the u.k. . that significant control of firearms within

a population. makes them or less available to a very significant degree if you have fewer firearm circulating then it's less likely that they're going to fall into the hands of somebody. who is one of the very very very few people that might consider doing something like this. and so it yes has a parts apply but it's not the it's not the answer on its own so peter dunne you listed here in moscow unclear. as you rightly say mental health will be. a priority and should quite rightly be the priority in these sorts of cases but just going back to the question of forearms this was a hot side escort shotgun turkish manufactured a fall on the can certainly do a lot of damage in the hands of the wrong person especially in a close confined space like a school.