unverified video appears to show blasts in tel aviv as hamas admits to launching rockets at the city in response to previous israeli airstrikes. earlier an israeli airstrike destroyed a high rise building where a hamas run t.v. channel was located with the militant group launching a barrage of more than 100 rockets in response. to the police i mean i'm going a sign. if i make stun grenades make trying to get people to run away from here. and our correspondent reports from the israeli city of gripped by violence between jews and arabs.

all those are news headlines for us this hour and we have the international team thanks a lot for watching and we hope to see you again soon. hello and welcome to crossfire for all things we consider and i'm peter lavelle americans have a long and contentious history with the word socialism for conservatives most often it is a dirty word even unpatriotic for many liberals it's about social justice and compassion however for better or worse it remains a red line within the electorate. talking

socialism i'm joined by my guest caleb mouth and in new york he is a journalist and political analyst and r.t.e. in miami we have soraya foss she is a former us presidential candidate and in atlanta we have don jones she's an attorney and a former state director for bernie sanders in 2016 crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let me let me go to you 1st because we've kind of bumped heads in the past about this issue here what does socialism mean to you in and i really want to make it very clear here i don't really want to go into the pros and cons of it i want to talk about the meaning of it in the context of american politics because everyone knows i'm a conservative but i have to you know show my cards a little bit here i'm really tired of conservatives throwing that word out is that is if it really means much anymore go ahead caleb in new york. well the essence of socialism in the sense that karl marx and lot of your lenin and others wrote about

the essence of it is growth and progress the idea is that the means of production the banks factories major industries should be organized to serve the public good and liberated from the anarchy of production and the chaos of the market and if we can get beyond profits and command human growth and creativity can be unlimited and you know wealth can expand for all of society you know in a rational society in a socialist society self driving cars would be a great thing because then there would be less work for everybody but under capitalism technological progress leads to poverty and instability the more efficient it becomes to produce things the fewer people you have to hire less people are getting paid in wages and we lead to the disaster receding in the west right now which is a high tech low wage economy where working people who can only only work so long as their work in rich is a boss they are they're left outcast and starving as the means of production get more and more efficient and socialism is about overcoming the irrationality of

profits and command having a centrally planned economy so that growth can be unlimited oh ok so i have a how do you how do you define it because what what what we just heard from caleb there is everything essential lies essentially by the state ok and historically in the 20th century we have seen that is problematic of the very least but i think that caleb i give him credit that is basically the me me the bones and flesh of what the idea is all about go ahead in miami your thoughts it that it i think why don't anything the fear that everybody has a socialist in at the end will eat will lead to a classless statements and have. you know within society and that is the fear that everybody has going to hear the word socialism. ok all right you know sound as to what text you know what that original definition of left should. ok well let's get a lid on here because i'm now we're kind of kind of circling the wagons around really

what's going on here because it's you know progress on one side clearly the aughts the theory of it here but the practice of it is about who has the power and i think that that's what that's really the debate here i mean is it is it good to give the state all power or give it to all the dark so i mean if you're home on the lowering of society does it really make any difference go ahead in atlanta. so one very important component and let that is that it is not socialism it is not a net it is not going to act right and so it's not just the government making decisions it is cheaper who are left behind the individuals who will be running the system that makes it socialism right is about a means of production so the people who will be educated in the system elect the officials who decide how the system works and then we can all equally use the system so that's a very important component a socialism and that is the day it is an art is a coup of democracy and so there are not oligarchy who can come in and make

decisions unchecked they have to be elected and appointed by the people just like they can be removed by the people if they don't ensure that everyone has a buy at the apple core those important things like energy transportation health care education housing all those things that we all need right here all the time throughout the entire world ok caleb i mean if it's something that i do like and i and i actually hear an echo of bernie sanders there and i have to admit we're done and it's turning into ancient history but i've said repeatedly on this program and 2016 there were only 2 candidates that i followed it was donald trump and bernie sanders ok so because his message does resonate resonate with people and with a lot of conservatives believe it or not ok caleb i mean so i mean in the american context because i mean i've lived around the world i've lived most of my entire life not my adult life my entire life in different countries in the world and all of them have had health care all of them ok some of them better than others here so

why is it that america can take best practices because that's the question i ask myself all of the time go ahead caleb well part of the rise of neo liberal economics milton friedman and iran and and alan greenspan was pushing this notion that any invoked by the government in the economy is. by definition socialism and leading to communism and a lot of americans believe that if they pay taxes that that is socialism a lot of americans believe that the post office is socialism but all capitalist economies have state actors and state government spending to some degree or other i mean you have to have paved roads you know to facilitate people going and shopping at capital stores and the notion that any state sector is somehow somehow communism and we should get beyond it that was introduced in the united states during the 1970 s. really we saw the rise of this kind of economic thinking and has lead to big economic

problems look at the united states crumbling infrastructure i mean the rust belt you know economic u.k. you know we've got a system of prisons for profit military contractors i mean we're seeing we're seeing neo liberal free market extremism brought to its logical conclusion in the united states and i think that i think that it's those ideas that say that any involvement by the government any social welfare state is you know you should immediately think of joseph stalin that kind of thinking has led to big problems in the united states but that's why the term is now being used so loosely is that you know we've been programmed through the cold war to just you know have this got hostile reaction to anything associated with communism so now it's useful you know as we're facing an economic problem to point at those who would want to resolve it or implement measures that are designed to address it and say ah ha you're a communist if. you know what became of you're absolutely right i mean conservatives and progressives you know there's a lot to discuss among ourselves a lot and a lot of progress could be made but then we have the neo liberals and we have the

establishment here they throw in the hanger again it's called socialism and then they make every would argue about it ok that i get sick and tired of that because conservatives and progressives have a lot in common if we give each other a chance instead of letting these male liberals mediate the conversational it and so i would say that really in miami one of things really bothers me. but this socialism to be there's plenty of socialism in the american economy and that's the coddling of big business by the government you know when there's a crisis who gets bailed out 1st big big big companies ok i really resent that i resent that a lot ok and we saw that in 2008 and then we saw it last year and through this year with the pandemic ok if you're rich and powerful you're going to get concierge service that's socialism in my mind and i don't like that kind of socialism go hand in miami. i think that one of the issues that we're having interesting today is that these bigger corporations are the ones that are getting the bailouts and the

people who really need it the middle class and the lower class you know they're the ones that are having a more typical time because we don't see it you know when it comes to the stimulus you know all these billions of dollars are going to hell that were ations and it's not really coming to the people it works or really does i get the well you know what it is they want to help the economy they would go directly to the people from the start. but yet you haven't i mean gotten a good was go back to lead on because about what about the democratic process here it seems to me you know when it when i look at polling i look at a lot of gallup polling right before the presidential election is that there is a huge myth out there a lot of people want a system they want to have some kind of like pre-k. paid for i'm for it ok community college for you i'm for it ok absolutely for it ok you have to give people a stake in society but then you know then it's you know a bill is passed and it's all told out to these education industrial complex and

then they suck up all the money and they get teach their kids trash that's my opinion go ahead why don't you hit the nail on the head so here's an he component to make socialism work is not just about soling out money on the government to people who need it wherever you fall on the spectrum it's also about the sheeple doing the work so that we have infrastructure projects in the united states a lot of times those are jobs produced right so you have elected officials who are taking sums of money to invest in a role that we all use but in the also are investing in the employment of people who don't get to receive those funds on the back in because we know labor tends to be one of the highest cost of any project that you have and so when you have something that's like the stimulus right where these corporations got millions of dollars well we have no control no that already no income. how those millions and billions are used right and the people who run the corporations get to decide how that money is doled out there's no guarantee that it's going to trickle down to the

people who actually work eat right is the benefit to the overall united states economy there's no benefit to the fact that you know this restaurant isn't eating people who need to eat see the people who are willing to pay the money to eat right today this model into capitalism saw the airy important component of socialism that people to get it's not just education it's also the employment of teachers and creek a teachers and all the people who feed into our system from bus drivers to the cafeteria workers the same thing with each other level of socialism is the one hope they get back into quite it sounds like they're thinking about what happened during the cold war we have to remember particularly in american politics republicans were once dixiecrats right they were democrats i once had and we did a switch where there is a nother switchbacks of place right with socialism particularly democratic socialism as bernie sanders and others and a o c speak of it and we have to look at it in that format if we're still trying to

use the terminology 800 and the 1900 were going to miss the point and then a bit of what socialism really well i you know your dear i hope we can all agree all 4 of us can agree the trickle down economics you know we need to retire the term and the up at the end of the the actions ok because it certainly has not worked in and we can that's a topic of a totally different program here i want to jump in here way to go to a short break and out about your break we'll continue our discussion on socialism they were talking. about until next hazard but as a survival guide. looking forward to hear president. this is what happens to pensions in britain delegates are really watched as

a report. americans love. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right that's the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. to be really interesting back and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the united states not just that question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is and for . welcome back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind

you we're discussing socialism. because i can't live in new york and you know this whole discussion about the infrastructure bill that the administration is proposing and trying to get republican support here again i think that the term socialism warps everything i think the neo liberal media warps everything because they're looking to score points and again have nothing to do with people it has to do with you know their shareholders and their political affiliations and allegiances here i mean if you look at this infrastructure bill i don't have a problem with the price tag it's over 10 years my goodness you know they'll never touch the defense spending will they but you know this infrastructure thing and if it's done right it creates jobs and it pays for itself eventually if it's done right there's one thing i don't really worry about caleb and maybe i'll kick up a little bit of dust on the program with this one i don't like the strings attached

you know you have to have critical race theory you have to have these woke asst elements you know to be able to get the money you know there's a lot of people that are very uneasy about that and it feels very totalitarian and particularly if it is a demand and not a negotiation an explanation here how do you how do you you know alleviate worries of half the country when it comes to that issue go ahead caleb. well i share a lot of your concerns peter look i started out as saying the essence of socialism is growth but if you listen to a lot of the rhetoric coming out of the white house right now i've seems like sleepy joe doesn't believe in growth he thinks growth is bat smaller is better build a bigger empire i mean this is a rockefeller mouth it was an idea this is this is very dangerous and all throughout the united states we have seen the rise of hassam is in a lot of ways you know joe biden seems like jimmy carter 2.0 which in this notion

that we need to reduce consumption you know while republicans are pushing for full deregulation libertarian free market policies is like a lot of what the democrats want is not growth and rational planning of the economy but rather what they want is simply a state managed austerity you know gradually gradually roll back to living standards oversee a continuing process where the next generation has a much lower standard of living than their parents ever had you know try to control them whether it's with you know manage social media or whether it's with drugs if they haven't already gotten on ritalin when their kids you know give a marijuana and given hallucinogenics as adults and and you know there is a very dangerous kind of managerial you know social social engineering aspects to what the liberals are doing right now and small businesses seem to be the most you know targeted by it they seem very very you know upset and you know they may be wiped out it may be the big capitalist like amazon and wal-mart who really benefit from from what they're proposing but it's interesting because if you look around

the world the strength of socialism in the 21st century whether you go to vietnam or nicaragua we're not shy now has been you know while you have a state central plan empowering small businesses micro entrepreneurs you know you know socialism with chinese characteristics is all about having a market sector in order to combine the strengths of capitalism with the overall vision of socialism and planet kaleb you know you know what you know your time. about you know lowered expectations and downsizing you know one in you know what one sector is really exploding super yachts that 6 bloating right now they're building the biggest yachts of all time ok they're not downsizing you know so i that you know caleb brings up such an excellent point in this that i could say again conservatives and progressives can have a lot in common a lot of what caleb said i absolutely agree with you but what about entrepreneurs i mean it's one of the things we're going through the lockdowns in the reaction to the pandemic there seems to be no interest in helping middle size small businesses

i mean absolutely none i mean horrific stories of no reason of all people are to shut down and then their competitors that are you know these big box companies you know you can go shopping there but you can't go to a moment pop pharmacy i mean where is that in the in the economy moving forward here because i would have thought that that would be pro people very you know part of the socialist dream but it's not there it's almost completely void go ahead in miami that's very dangerous because we've had at least i can see here locally a lot of businesses were close to that in really absolutes just. as much a. team in later i don't. mean to here is. just a little bit working that was regarding the infrastructure a lot of the issues that we're having i mean it's great and it's very ideal but you're going to see that those companies that are going to get the contract is not going to be that it's always somebody that knows somebody and knows somebody who is

a cousin or so i am honored whatever that ends up with these types of contracts and the money just stays in the same circle and that's what we're seeing that there's a huge problem and whether it's at a local or international it's always. they always seem to have a way still keep the profit out of that it's never really about that for my time it's really average yeah well you know we there it's called in. influence peddling and pay to play and there's plenty of it to go around we don't need to go down that rabbit hole right now but i think everybody knows that i'm talking about let's go back to it atlanta here you know one of the things a lot of the figures that you'll see in the bottom of your screen when you watch this here is from a gallup poll before the election and i was really kind of struck how many young people are attracted to the idea of socialism and when and reading the fine print and what i found really interesting is that it may not be particularly an attraction to a certain idea of socialism but a rejection of neo liberalism because you know what it's not working for them ok

and any of it you don't have to explain it theoretically they're living it ok go ahead without so you have a guest hit in the ounce on the head right so the reason why you never met him welcome it if they own it socialism is to make sure that your current than theirs and get the contract behind doors right that's where the government control and regulations come in on the other end of this free market that the conservatives like to push for so that you know through capitalism and see the difference is there was a time every publicans were conservative and it was right we have to protect our financial future for a future generation now this generation which was the future generation and they were speaking up is saying we're good with the money well we are concerned about is that air we're concerned about being able to breathe we're concerned about peace

and did anything that spread across the globe and we have a responsibility to ensure that we're the future and we are willing to give up some of our freedoms why we're willing to put these really rich folks who are believed to have to build more. yachts that are better for our or the atmosphere in order to preserve the future of one term because you're right they are not. the beneficiaries of all this hype in capitalism is better access to capital that that the chapel is it is still what is important with socialism is one making sure that there are limits on people who are able to just out spin and out i am a both a loser and what has gone on since the pandemic only one business that closed in the beginning of the pandemic because we were very reliant on people coming in and they couldn't come in we couldn't proceed but then my other businesses had had this

hit their payroll and p.p.p. other thing that came in the had allowed me to row and hire more people so there is a in a and a burden to have come in all high in with socialism an underlying goal is that particularly in america we are far too rich of a country to have as many homeless and to have as many unemployed have as need people who are struggling out there that if we just took a little bit of time in the organization of the government to ensure that everyone has a fair shot at being able to have health care better or caleb you know if that's what you know of all my current conservative friends really get upset with me when i talk about health care because i've seen a good part of the world and it's not a debate in most simple world it's pretty obvious what's right ok and what works here ok and you know and it's something that you know maybe i can tell our viewers here you know you know being an american being brought up in america the anxiety of

not having health care really is an amazing amazing negative effect on you you're afraid of getting sick ok i'm ok and most of the world at least the developed world where nobody is afraid of getting segue i mean it happens unfortunately and there is assistance there because you pay your taxes here but the impact it has on americans is a truly extraordinary and this pandemic tells us everything that's. wrong with the with the pharmaceutical industry it's really the heights of him in a morality of what we're seeing with these vaccines and ip and all about when the you know they're protecting their their patents you know the american people paid for those patterns they paid for the research they paid for all of the research they've been doing it for one pattern after another for well over a decade and you have the mainstream media parroting you know you know it's you know somebody might be able to use the formulas and cure cancer or god forbid

something like that have i mean do they do they have any understanding of what they're saying because it really shows the lack of any kind of moral compass of what the average condition of the average american is and what the world is experiencing because of this pandemic go ahead caleb well you know it's interesting because you know this notion that conservatism and capitalism lacandon hand they don't. merit and it's pretty pretty western and you know if you look at it you know conservative anti-capitalism predates marxism by hundreds of years you know the catholic church was looking during the rise of capitalism and saying this is a system where money is being put over religious principles it's in it's encouraging you know breaking of art of the bonds that hold society together and there is a strong conservative critique of capitalism in the united states we seem to have lost that has notion yes markets you must be on the left and i don't think that's true internationally speaking i mean if you look at the political spectrum right

wing anti-capitalism has been around for a long time months but i think that the absence of the problem we have in the united states is look if the pie is only so big the only way your slice can get bigger is by cutting into somebody else's and nobody ever thinks that their slice of the pie is too big in fact they want their slice of the high to get bigger and so when you when you say that there is a limited room when you declare that growth is bad you're setting up for huge divisions and. society you're setting up for all kinds of problems but if we can get back to the notion that growth is unlimited and that if we can get beyond the irrationality of greed and profit running our economy and we can mobilize to build what roosevelt did during the great depression you know with the works progress administration you know appealing to you know people's desire to go out and build a better world friendship with countries around the world that are that are trying to do the same thing and lift themselves up out of poverty you know we could we could get beyond you know the divisions that are inherent in the notion that the pie is only so big and and i think that that is the biggest impediment we have here

in the united so you know caleb i think it's meal liberalism just that there are determines the size of the cake and they're the ones who decide who cuts it and that's the problem here that's all the time we have i want to thank my guests in new york miami and in atlanta and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time remember cross-talk rules. we've been saying now for years that all this money printing would cause a replacement but we didn't really see it at the level of the c.p.i. consumer price index and well because the c.p.i. doesn't reflect the actual prices a stuff that people you stay typically quote prices are stuff that people don't use and they don't include housing or health care or education for example. and that worked for a while but now it's really hard to hide the fact that the money printing is causing a lot of inflation as you would expect so now the big question is do we take the

word of a central bank who is saying that it's transitory and that this is a sugar high and that things are not going to last in this way or do we think that this might be a structural beginning. it is placed there a period possibly a period of stagflation because the economy can be stagnant. new york is really what america is about. when our mayor took office she was elected because of his campaign on our city being a tale of 2 cities the haves and the have not and those who have not are usually the ones who were into being very hard at the city has always wanted to forget about what island city is want to forget about the people who are buried there

wanted to forget about the fact that there is a potter's field but there is a place where difficult stories are given the fact they were using inmates to maintain this act is very a site where 1000000 souls are buried where so much of new york city history is buried is the commands of the inequality that exist in this city for centuries. was abundant make no certainly no borders and just blind to nationalities. as americans we don't know but certainly we don't look like seeing the whole world feasting. chief. judge and. coming crisis with this christensen's times. we should.

everyone is contributing each in our own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenge is critical to response has been masked so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we're in it together. the government has to determine which zones is it going to insure and where does it not going to insure and it does that based on the racial makeup of neighborhoods. neighborhoods that had a certain number of black presidents what have literally red lines drawn around them on the map. and they wouldn't insure mortgages in those areas because they believed that the property is would not hold.