after another and see his personal misconduct in dining street and as prime minister i know decided it's it doesn't matter and this is a new thing in british politics we haven't had it in my lifetime but it's not a simple explanation if you look at the results from the free nations marked a for wales nicholas that arjun winning and scotland bala's dance of the willing in england isn't the public just commenting on the the handling of well the vaccination program in particular isn't this just a thank you to the 3 political leaders who have taken the country through the pandemic yes and it's not just the bass a nation there is in times of emotions international crisis like. there's a national disaster people to look towards that their leaders and in the case of mr mr johnson he's considered sort of done well i don't think he did it's all of

the gee you know we know that he completely failed state council didn't turn the 1st strike over meetings on this emergency and made a total nonsense of the of the early stages and i am with you hand there in general facts that indicate in times of emergency people vote for their leaders and like them even of a go to serve for support at school or perhaps a disconnect for between political journalism and their public attitudes some in the last 2 weeks of these election campaigns the totally party were under great pressure because of the activities of mr johnson and it deed has paid assessor mist of common about lobbying scandals and this sort of thing but the public don't seem to care one iota about that sort of stuff without their correct reading of the situation. the reading which you just described is the one which is being pumped now by mr johnson's allies in dining straits and beyond in other words we are we

are now the master of mr johnson's lie and he is chasing and so on and these far east and he and he is relationship with tory jonas and concerning the the regeneration of downing street then of the masses of those has spoken and i think it is true should be accent that. you know we heard phrases free by day to day basis there are the masses on the doorstep covais but on the other hand that is not a reason not syrian tara get sick not sit to interrogate what mr johnson's how he spends his money and die history who's giving him money alone him money this is all proper questions for journalists to us it is in the west mids and bubble issue as a lot some soft of the connect between what journalists and newspapers believe to

be important and what the general public vote on as important that's a very profound question because it is true that most journalists politicians policymakers in general civil servants tends to live in the great metropolises whereas most is a scattered everywhere and they may have a different perspective but their hand i think 1st there is race in may discover that mr johnson has been lying to them and the brassy hasn't been this wonderful economic triumph for which he threatens to project. and there is going to come a moment when reality and the world created by johnson which projects very effectively it particularly in northern areas a good part company and people are already seeing in sort of pull barriers like i

can but the brass it promises across england job destroying our businesses so we are living in a sort of fantasy world that many were made many ways of a moment how long that will persist i know that the people above you have been noted for your command of of sweeping views of politics one of the most influential thoughts than early 20th century the political developments of england was a strange death of liberal england as it was called can you explain though this strange death of the labor party in all of them what an f. is going on the book you refer to that george dangerfield strange death of fruit liberal england's. suggesting that britain was heading to for some form of revolution before in 9048 and they only escaped from mr evolution by every traipsing off to the great tragedy and world war one and it was going to be a working class revolutions and labor party suffragettes were causing my hand and i

forget what of the leg of darkness that dr james i do recommend the book wonderful rate. the strange jeff toobin labor party. brix it is 3 the problem for the labor party and so if you look at hartley pool which was a safe later seat. the racers win fs other 1st of all they voted bracks it and i remember many of them were labor and the night they all got almost unanimously to the consensus that's the immediate problem the longer problem i think is tony blair mr blair came prime minister advice by that political genius peter mandelson in 1900. and the basic strategy was that you completely ignored your base voters the working class you would devote your strategy to appealing to well it's a reasonable number of middle class folk who is swing the election in your

direction and that's what took tony blair did very successfully but in the medium term the facts of this was to betray the working class of the trade your core vote and many of those voters felt despise and for the time being they ended up with mr johnson's conservative party they've abandoned labor and that is not something you can blame on cash or jeremy call be or medium than and that is a direct result of very cynical strategy adopted by tony blair and though that mr johnston has triumphant over the labor party and much of the and is he now going to tell his sights to last the day out of labor's i'm in wales and what about in scotland will the independence from the s.n.p. reception how his list of johnson going to to deal with these up starts and the celtic nations. you keep on asking really difficult questions.

and it probably too vague too difficult to be excessive but it feels like mr johnson by mistake in some ways as if they are leading a sort of english national and movement. and so that being the case he is the biggest possible gift you would have to the independence movement in wales and indeed in scotland the way he talks and the union you know the olson fulsome is flippant it doesn't i'm a strong unionist but it is flippant it doesn't. pay proper respects as things to the historic nature of the union and what it needs and is full of clever ideas and he doesn't have a proper sense of what the union is so would you draw a contrast then between the unionism of what say david cameron and the union as

a love boris johnson yes i think david cameron for all of his full said a genuine commitment enormous commitment to belief to the to the union boris johnson is a more opportunistic politician he winds up in those are the actually not. scholarly ac theresa may when she was prime minister. structure g.o.p. she realized that she couldn't do any damage that to try to agree and she really responsive to make sure the union in northern ireland boris johnson smashed that did mrs mrs maggs and the reason he did that was opportunistic create things in order to dismantle her leadership she did have respect for union which you can see johnson do in that sense. so would just say that what is done to the has

a past no culpability for the instability that we see no in all of the island a little n.a.o. awareness and only state that he might be of that responsibility there's no sense this is another thing which makes johnson unusual but not unknown but unusual in my mum on british prime minister as he there's no sense of shame and really no sense of responsibility he uses is a brilliant use of language when he uses it for one's haskell short and after another and when an event stands found out as he predicted also the same words he's moving along so fast the train is moving such a class or impious that everybody forgets the promises and pledges decisions he made he says the moments he's an awesome hold he surprises and brilliance urkel technique is the most part for prime minister since tony blair in you know on the

eve of the iraq war yes a sort of dominance one thing which we haven't mentioned is the press that should play to the british media errantry which is played a major oh cementing 2 this situation and projecting mr johnson's or not questioning his lies and not exposing his cronies and sleeps it's. a bit but that is in the moment you cannot it is prodigious mariza is as powerful in a fashion a 90 as he said remember after that great victory or blair after 2001. join us after the break where alex continuous is discussion with top journalist peter oborne we'll see you then.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race is on all sides very dramatic development only a silly i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. americans love. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood

the bargain you get a hoe and then you know rebel right that's the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. and be really interesting to dial it back and think about the longer deeper history housings man in the united states not just the question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is and for . welcome back to the issue where alex continues his discussion with pizza over. so let's reflect more generally peter roebuck kenya dent a 5 the soft of techniques that your phone store fence of the lies the relations of the of the media is that something new in politics or is it just something that's got modern techniques to make all the more pernicious politics has been

invested by very rich man who are bought the political parties and have started to control to buy he used politics as a form of. of investment and getting for selfish greedy reasons to get contracts to get rewards in the house of lords to get owners and support excess but it can't be captured by grete that's associated i think we're in for the rise of near liberalism but it's not the same thing george osborne made this remarkable statement are sure to hear david cameron he's a little more than i think faction if they gain control of the conservative party in 2005 us was and i think how easy it would be to take over the conservative party

as it was him to hear him can translate and taken over and that sense of honor and service and just vanished with that remark and the modernizers attracts it these vulgar unscrupulous bankers who are in politics in order to suit in some cases to skew that pollute ideological agenda and other cases to just make money when contractors receive not this enormous number of tory donors who treat given contracts. the pickerel but if you talk as if this is a new development with a go back to the days of monty gregory who was busy selling authors and pillages for lloyd jobs unsteadily baldwin was convicted of that was a way back in the 1920 s. so what is different no compared to them or tell you one difference i'm not going to name any contemporary names you'll be relieved to know for legal reasons but he

was convicted of murder if it goes on to say left right and center. and nobody even raises an eyebrow. and more generally i think that's the. beauty of the standards of integrity which prevailed posts were watered particular when the cabinet secretary was a formidable figure in the process of doxil service process was very strong. that that you really can't point to many instances of corruption and those that there were well punished like pools and for instance the property development case or. profumo who likes parliaments and then you know resigned and went into charity where there's a much higher code of public on a and and a political cartoons were not in the hands of very rich men the way they are now

part of the rise of the party don't. it is been one of the most maligned features of my public life. in this assault on truth you meticulously detail the cases where the privacy of those does there's been a variance with the actuality but it is this really again something a start to abolish dunson a woman when you simulate a critical of a tony blair's been daughter of a star campbell i mean isn't this just a continuation of a trend as opposed to something which is protect lee johnson esque you know to make a very good points about tony blair id write a book by mr blair and his entourage in the end and nothing is going to ever be as terrible as the law of buyer weapons of mass destruction which was used to justify an illegal war should be said mr blair nice of the statement that when he was lying

about that he was simply he would say misinformed by the intelligence services i think that's what he says but after the blair episode. under gordon brown and david cameron theresa may you didn't get this kind of lie i was of course followed the blair. and johnson is a different thing altogether he just fabricates all the time it's very like trump in that way almost of radiation in a joint do you know there's lots of examples of making things up for the fun of it and. he i think this is a new scale. hardly care. partly lying and. i think it has a real problem here because it can last for so long but at the end of the day that the evil do come over us to everybody that there is a large gap incredible gap between truth and and reality but of course that one of

your best new hours that was dominic cummings the f.c.c. while control of our 1st spend them in the pillay sion and only state no there has been a huge parting of the ways between just coming with mr johnson and they did it was generally thought mr cummings was busy sticking the knife and before the elections it does the electoral results settled mr cummings hasse's well you know this is a very interesting points that you raise because mr cummings is being blamed not least by mr johnson himself through wentz of the links and ripping up newspaper editors a few weeks ago and saying that the source of peace story is about him advice he small paper and that sort of thing or was was mr cummings and of course now this he's had this election trying mr johnson just allies are already will now say oh that will paper thing all those the new lasers episodes that stands inquiry and

announce that they into his column in the state alas that man comics is in businesses pay attention to him and that is a way to try to diverse attention from the fact that the integrity of the prime minister is and has i mean terribly old fashioned amass a real importance as mary says these things the answer is that he didn't believe that require writers gain to be a real a chance to say certain british journalists and sued the world at large that somehow mr johnson was behind a painting kit by ross by the by the elections. no uniform of colleague of the prime minister did above highly complimentary about the skills as a as a journalist so you know him better than most spotless doesn't the the sort of man who goes home to downing street and has a good laugh about the day's events or as a someone who who pours over what might be in there in the social media of the or

the next day's headlines is a hear what he or or as he devil may care on the basis of the johnson i knew at the spectator when i worked for him as i was his little correspondent and he was the editor you were carried there i mean that is one of the greats redeeming features of the prime minister is that he wasn't over consumed by a sense of personal vendettas or you know when it was written about him in the papers or he will go back home and and be very good company i mean nice that is just so i know. where that he's still the case in downing street i couldn't possibly say because i grassroot for you i have an invitation. are you surprised me greatly that i haven't asked you peter roby of us to convince unionist to do something which is very out of character i wanted to give some advice to nicholas stopped and hers had

a subtle or substantial election victory in scotland and this she sizes up bothers dobson and wonders how to take them on the issue of the constitutional future scotland what advice would you give to mr. list urging as garth's as a very natural course of action which is to to undermine boris johnson by pointing out the very same are the very arguments he used from dresses. the arguments which of course undermine his own unionist case. and the 2nd thing she has in her. armory is that mr johnson's and this is something which just a step is a unions is that mr johnson's well documented record of lying not least about the s.n.p. . means that whatever he says in mary to syria referendum campaigns carries a 0 weights so let's move what generally again peter odom do you see

a telling point in politics and when you have well displayed good the solution with some of these techniques of crept into politics how the parties have become and the ownership of the big dollars. that has the line development across politics do you think there's going to be a tumbling point the people of ensley say though or were fed up with their smuggler let the clean government party of the if they were on the road to perdition to answer your question you have to understand what has happened to the fanservice if party is ship change being a pragmatic sensible the party union when you are an m.p. you know broadly based party to be something which is quite. quite a very right wing it's moved it into words the old right to use the jargon trance in justice and the republicans in the united states.

today dedicated to waging a series of cultural wars economically it's shifted dramatically of course to the left. and. is always remind you very much of all abound in hungary is of clan soliciting political leader which is to say he identifies supporters and wards them and then waits uses something very approaching hate speech to marginalize minorities is higher frightening new form of politics we have that it. in britain ever. and the question is what is going to stand up against it. and that is the problem which cash dumb ass because i think osama closed decent man but he's an so far suggests everything he's downstairs is a very poor politician's not and if you can't form

a broadly based party which does stand up for decency and does the liver on its promises. that will be a very important favorite at the moment mr johnson's unique brand of conservatism and i wouldn't even call it conservatism because for me the conservative party was the budget process in the clouds speech scrupulous and honest mr johnson's conservatism is temporary the new dominance new momentum of forever nothing ever is . and finally then peter oborne where is the opposition going to come from is it going to come from the opposition parties at westminster is it going to become from a a revived press for the perhaps for the the social media is it going to come from the civic society is going to come from the celtic nations and who is finally going to say enough is enough we're putting a stop to this well i'm here so i hope that the celtic nations are true successful

in their own opposition i do think at some point there's going to be a break between mr johnson's to consider should sit because he has the traditional tory heartlands which are pragmatic middle of the rote relatively low tax people of the home counties the shires parts of london and at the same time he's got a new constituency which is the former labor voting working class which runs from massive public spending and quite likes mr johnson's brand of exhibitionism and canvas to arson for a coalition to remain together. obviously not and also no point forces that was mr johnson is never going to be able to rescue are we pull or i mean all the hard nickels or are it just is does it isn't possible peter oborne thank you so much for

being such an insightful and entertaining guest on the alec salmon show that wasn't always a pleasure thank you alex. peter nobody has provided a pile of full critique of the techniques of modern government and indeed above us johnson's government in particular have the prime ministers continued electoral success of a it's a solid to the mind that the political scandal often fascinates the mainstream media is no substitute for the long term trends which dominate at the ballot box as some point realestate can see this opposition to johnson will mess will it be from out of vive opposition that westminster will it be from the celtic nations will it be from the on like media will it be from civic society but nature abhors a political vacuum that no position will abed's and when it does at the johnson train may well have the buffalo's. and so for now from to speed on the self and all

of the show it's good bye for now keep staying safe and we'll see again next week. choate's seems wrong but old rules just don't all. let me.

get to shape out these days you can't get out to play and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground the. look forward to talking to. that technology should work for people. must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders to conflict with the 1st law should your identification or should be very careful about official intelligence at the point obesity is. transferred. on various shots and with artificial intelligence where some of the. must protect its own existence is expensive.

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