hello and welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle who is a fascist well given the state of our politics a fascist is your political opponent even mortal enemy tragically and dangerously the term fascist is more times than not a political slur to destroy someone's character fascism is an odious ideology and political practice we all should be careful when referencing. cross talking fascism i'm joined by my guest lattimer goldstein in providence he's

the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and in budapest we cross to georgia he is a pod counselor at the gaggle which can be found on you tube rumble and the locals are gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated let's go to vladimir 1st let me i'm very glad to have you and george on the program to talk about this very important topic because being a trained academic historian in modern european and russian history and still dabble in it because i get to talk to a very interesting people like yourself and george on this program i'm very disturbed in mainstream media and in. political political diatribes so that people used to term fascist it's a very important term it's very dangerous term i think we have to use a lot of precision when using it because if you don't you minimize the the fascistic experience that was in the 20th century and what could possibly have have

been in the future so give your reflection here i mean i'm sure you hear the same things i hear how do you feel when you hear he's a fascist she's a fascist go ahead. yeah i think you know that is a double edge sword it is in and it's dangerous and boys remember geishas 1st of all this tendency to demand eyes your point of going to call them a freshness is not very good but by using the bait chipping in to term we actually ran the ease of me saying the freshness of a system versus or against it you know meets there is you know there is a definite elements of cultural political mentality which eventually you know result in certain actions which can be called faces of the storm you know as you said have to be used very completely to be analyzed because you know i for example in the movement which were seen in the united states in the u.s. what they call themselves and their faces you know who are the face that face just

kind of thinking it was a shit what they do it so we really have to be very careful how when do you think it's really important to come back to the jurors in understand what is it whether behind george said same question to you because it's overuse makes it meaningless and that's what i find terrifying as i stressed in my introduction my 1st question the bottom here it is a very odious ideology and if we don't keep tabs on it in the right way then it can be applied to anything and if it can be applied to anything it doesn't mean anything go ahead george. that's exactly right so i think that if we think of only one of these matters the many in fact it is obviously. a political movement or a series of political movements that arose in the autumn of the world war one and again in response of the collapse of several of the european empires the collapse of the states economic dislocation and

a year all the rest the great inflation in germany the great depression and so on and so the passion might be located in that particular historical phenomenon and. look even within that that phenomenon there were a wide variety is right. i mean it wasn't may have been an outlier was a levy is muslimeen is fascism is very different from national socialism and that it was very different from frank frank it was a term very different from 40 so if you have to somehow really tried to find really what aspects of these movements are common and then you extend it into of your chair what is it that we really find dangerous and threatening about any possible revivals of fascism and i think we're inviting them mention her and see her. and was likewise matter then you can see

the the parallels between that rational phenomenon of 100 years ago namely the result of 2 political violence and name calling and etiology and the opportunism of supposedly democratic politicians in use screen mobs in order to achieve their political goals and i think that's a kind of a service the legacy of passion movements of those times i think in a such of a. tatic point because you know the way the term is used today in the mainstream it has some kind of singular meaning or conjures up an image or something like that and that's simply not true that is a historical here because i mean it's quite fashionable and i can understand because of the cold war is it you know fascism is the right and then communism is the left here but you know and you can make that argument in

a in that's fine but i don't think it's satisfactory at the same time plan to me because it's not really left to right in georgia picked up on and already it's a set of political practices ok and i think that and i think in its very astute on the on the left to say all this i think that fascism is a right as phenomenon and people on the right are that way but no it's about political practices and that doesn't have a political got grounding in left or right maybe what we're finding out if it's actually in the center go ahead lemaire i would say the size of the mention that would really have to stress is sort of kind of you know cultural sort of movement there's a you know many levels there she is you know we're going to find them to understand what it's not but you know that we may need historians sions of that version you know observe nowadays is there's a cultural got

a phenomena which somehow religious certain certain kind of we all seem to it's was some go to be in this enjoy you joke you enjoy music you know. harmony in the grass projects in the future but right now in the present there is some kind of obstacle you know in last 8 years it was clear you know grades are i hear jews you know horman is. what but you know we can move on and we see the same but then. you know in this movement for example call and try. ephesus kind of a bad guy we're going to go now as a you know that for many people say i'm a liberal democrat the democrats and you know the state there was greed and obama will be greed you know if i was asked dick if you know a and a biden was are going to lead over this ramp of this mean an obstacle in those who help this is the same guy mentality it just can be seen again or again or again you

know in united states they have this concept or walk wall of people who know who see this musical kind of nonsense or the best of the village or anywhere or you know like now if only we're going to read this usual legacy or wait may remember who you know there were some others you know in ukraine for example of the bridge of where do they came up with this sort of once a surreal gomery a tsunami like those who are going to know who are so they are aware of their legacy over us and we do it once we got to you know who bring it up you know anyone who saw it in so you know there was always political correctness thinking if only we're going to lead but this is just basically very simplistic many. kind of overall get of the wall basan needs another reality it is also going to read jens ju know that we're like whoa whoa whoa now i know and it's just you know it's girls

of that nice week it's that he just needs kind of something for something i mean culturally 3 men there but they think what we see again and again in all forms yet it's a completely exclusionary either you know if you don't know you're not part of the in-group knowing and this is what it makes very exclusionary and very dangerous as i said in my introduction you could end up being a mortal enemy ok because you you don't know the truth here you know george and it was brought up here you know this kind of mythical past but i think a modern version of 21st version of it is to destroy the past because the only way you can have a president. that is acceptable and a. future that you want you must completely obliterate the past when we've seen this historically tried over and over again and it never ends in a good place and this is being done what i would say on the left go ahead george. well that is an excellent point peter because what most people. have traditionally

not on the snow are that what we term fashion is really dynamic and i rest there culturally and i am listening of phenomena and yet people are always going to use that that's with a conservative cleric and conservatives and i mean as i mentioned earlier you know people refer to it or see it as an ashes order was a clerical conservative same with marital conservatives i mean even if they have flashes allies and so what you talked about the these mobs in the street who care down statues who chaired their own history and who you know just see or see tradition as just and a relic that needs to be swept the way that that is goes to the heart of our rations and because i got that it is exactly that was the mentality of hitler and the head of europe was in a concert over there you have absolutely no interest in poland in history or german culture he was

a nihilist and he's the mobs that he unleashed to blow on books that he had back and then you know there is the in the parallels between the mobs that were tearing down statues last year and who go around today your own eyes eager to hurt us that there is no saying oh this is a white supremacy this is white imperialism this is anglo-saxon political tradition which means it is just slavery and the oppression of the colored people by the white man so let's get this got well in the jar see the interesting thing for me i'm watching all this you know. changing names of libraries i taking down statues how i can anyone explain to me how does that end systemic racism when you take a statue away how does that how does it how does it solve their perceived problem go ahead george before we go to the break. well it was he doesn't and yet he did and it's really just a matter that all you know kerosene the public into it's. generally

you know you oppose us because of course your friend tradition you are a defender of white supremacy your defender of being here listen. well if you're a dad i had to jump in here we're going to go to a break here but you know you mention the right word your terrorized florida ok we're going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on fascism stay with art. it's not all about that good fat bad cop good cop bad it's much more complex not to me it doesn't depend on anyone getting that you understand that really what is good quality food once a balanced diet and it's not about these 3 macronutrients because food is actually 30000 chemicals.

but if you were when you came from both of the chairs. ready to go the idea for a major overhaul. is to keep the interest. which 90 students that are saying no was listening because a lot of my think if you get. to fish now go for a bill in water should that it is that it's a piece of that this. was just from the us with the sheet of. the bowl of the wood stored once this issue of. golf is. this what about the store you can get to. buy as of much of what you mean you just. saw why much as they should but they say you could be when you get out of the scott. peterson you're chicago's 3000 but it's an awesome question as a mistress. is

your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe from. isolation or community. are you going the right way or are you being legs up with. director. what is true was his faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or in maybe in the shallows. welcome back across like we're all things we can. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing fascism.

ok let's go back a lot of here let me in the 1st part of the program we discussed the varieties of what could be described as fascist movements fascist ideas fascist practices here and now we can and you brought it up so i'm going to go back to you on of this whole phenomenon swope ism and it's exclusively focused on race and it's coming from what i think it's fair to say from the left here and it's completely self-referential because. he hears nothing you can do about your your the color of your skin you're just born that way ok and this is so there's no in this kind of woke asst. ideology there is no redemption because you were born in oppressor i mean that is such a self-referential ideology and george used the word at the very end of the 1st part of the program it terrorizes you go ahead lot of where. you know it 1st of all

is bay's not doing you know a reality and not in a serious and how this is all sort of historical circumstances and so i'm going to read musical scene here you know say you know walk east now with all their might columbus you know imagining is it right there live on these shores he was totally a deal be you know like in america and then my eyes are at stake. and then the bad white man showed up and it was with the lead of. he's implying it was in live fine and dandy but as i said this is a kind of fish just sink in that you know even as you do in future some guy though the group will know that if you don't mention sticks in my ears you know when when they saw this threat of the danger i mean from spain you know what really do they came up. there's a deal of separate why isn't thousands of people there in their hearts out whole

big deal to find a solution they didn't find a solution this is just draft if they're rising a vision which is a way rather than sort of walk in all together dots on both of you no meaningful you story going to be used you know as a solution if it's dry yet somebody needs to secularize just throw this a more there if you know that it is so destructive ultimately and we've seen its beauty be the beginning again this this started in scapegoating some kind of group and called in by elimination it will get somewhere this is this is ultimately a freshet but i would add one more thing the digital this it i think of the situation of the state as a really good to go that high priest intellectuals you know it again people were participating now you know where it went just crowd screams and yells you know down with these down over there it's one thing but intellectuals will say guys let's look at things historical let's do let's acknowledge what would we don't know all of truth let's let's be humble you know now these intellectuals kind of feed it if

you could whether kind of a thesis created it was kind of more and more information about the abuses of whoever they want to accuse so that less of it dangerous but i'm going to so so i would belittle my journalist a silence for it or accused all all you know denies it because it we don't have a dialogue and you know if it leads up to to while it's there well they're cowards and tended to say it they're cowards are it's a professional manager ariel class they'd legitimize this here you know you know george i don't want to go down this rabbit hole too deep here but you know it's look at the issue of of racism in and slave lee and reparations i mean in if you look at you know white people didn't invent slavery were white people were enslaved art all through history ok and the historical fact is that it was white people. that ended slavery as we know it today and the world almost completely eradicated

it it still does exist in some pockets but it was it was and i have to give the the english the credit you know they said this is not good we're going to use our our vast sea power we're going to start hounding these people to destroy this trade i mean then that happened over the last few 100 years from time immemorial there is been slavery but look to these wolk is walking around it it's something that's been around for 300 years i mean it's so a historical and it's cynical go ahead george. exactly right and the exact. colored people are not the only ones who have been in slavery and as you say slavery has been around since the beginning of time and you're going to talk about philosophy remember the the great girls philosophy and revolved around the mosque the slave dialectics because he said that a crucial moment in the growth of self-consciousness of man in other words slavery

was just went part and parcel of war and the new orleans name a conqueror or of the conqueror so there's nothing at all that this is uniquely whites against colored people but what's really happening now is that because this a historical that the destruction of people's lives and careers if they refuse to follow our culture because what we have not as black lives matter is a cult and he demands none of the beast learns just as you know the fashions leaders of the offspring of obese and so if you follow. football in the in the united kingdom before every single match every single day all of the players at the signal take the mean and no one has any choice and it was as well i don't really see why we have to take a need for this organization black lives matter i mean i you know there's a lot of very. unsavory aspects of this organization no everybody has to take the

knee and if you don't take money your can feel the her off of. the sporting or not it is and so you see this throughout a lot of the culture of the people you know expressed some skepticism as it will you know why and why didn't you know why why do i have to accept this idea well you know you do have to because if you don't you will lose your position and worse you know there was also the criminal penalties that my company and. down the pike because you know you're might be deemed gaging in hate speech and so then you. are it is so you can see how this mentality now melts together with the state and to create other schumann's to help those who don't follow the correct ideological doctrine yeah and it obviously creates a chilling effect ok you do it you don't want to express an opinion because you

don't want the wrath of these people here you know a lot of your ga i'm going to date us ok on this program here i have to admit i was very interested in the frankfurt school the critical theory i mean i read about it was very very interesting to me it was a new iteration of marxism basically putting in culture and taking out race here i never thought it would be a user's manual i guess that's what really caught me off guard here let me talk about that there because this is it i'm not to saying this is a marxism now this is what we call the in the in the literature western marxism the frankfurt school many of their members came to the united states during and after the 2nd world war and became very influential thinkers ok there's a man named martin j. he's written a wonderful book about it if you want to read about it i think it's called the dialectical imagination fascinating book i've read it a number of times but like i said i didn't take it as a user's manual it was actually a warning for me go ahead ladder. yeah i don't fortunately you know we basically do

have to go back to their roots and i believe you know that economics lies are the foundation of main things an improvement of humor alive is fundamental in substituted of all there with some kind of. new ground of civil affairs and the identity politics are or any round of lesson it's near-sighted so maybe it's easier to do you know it's right cheesier to introduce some kind of new legislature than the change of the gnomic center and make you know everybody but a go saying a moment why that's why a lot of and so actual falls where there is much easier. but there are it in reference to our previous discussion of slavery i would say here we have like i. don't champions of walkies and in the ads i had a bullet so what actually the competition for example is that the asians that libya they want it into sort of not exists and believe that silent would have us right

now we have numbers of war didn't leave militia now have it so they were not it then another elite is destroyed when you now they bring slaves so that let's there's an embargo sickle result or that's going to lead my your big implication of some kind of you know sort of points of the who quality whether you think that you know what i view is a bit and you want to answer to somebody who well you just drawing any down and sort of just an hour that the early gains of people selling you know in slave people it's the same lay people who are they fighting so this is a bit off and you know it guarantees that the whole this project seized on that yeah i mean it george i mean absolutely i mean they don't i mean this is just one gross form of virtue signaling because it's really people you know it's kind of white liberal suburbanites you know professional manager class that push this here they donate money like it's it's kind of somehow absolves them of the of their

collective go. which i thought we were supposed to believe in collective guilt ok and then they just kind of walk away from it in it for me it's kind of like these people they go into a room they they take the pin out of the grenade they toss it in then they leave the room i mean there's not much downside for them but everybody else gets the shrapnel go ahead george. yes exactly. because it's much worse than just paradox i mean there's a gross sinister agenda to it because it would be to release logan splash splash and splash this they move into ukraine and align themselves real those election rats ass if. i'm explaining that it's the russians 1 who are the same thing of what's happened in yugoslavia where the serbs led by milosevic who actually wanted to maintain their multi-national multidenominational yugoslavia want to keep it going they were dubbed the clashes. clashes apologist they are all in just in

croatia with the democrats so all of this is a kind of there's a very sinister game that he's in right and again you look at obama by the terrible role that all of this i mean what he did domestically how he use this as a slogan and demonizing his political opponents with it with this racist clashes but you know look at again what what he did in syria where you know you have a very cynical way aligned insult with people who exactly racists were incomplete oppressors you know whether it's oppressive though and we can george we can add to that we can add to that every single year waffen s.s. units you know they commemorate the collaboration with the nazis in ukraine and baltic republics the state department tony blinken where are you i thought you were all about you know norm that's ok and values they never say anything about it it's

like a little cultural oddity for these people here are gentlemen that's all the time we've had a fascinating discussion here i want to thank my guests in providence and in budapest and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk. no one has ever cruised around the globe in an inflatable catamaran before. the only stuff not. me but just gives it but. it is such a cruise you need a solid crew people you can share folks whole with so to speak. you do it to the fullest on that.

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new york is really what america is about. when our mayor took office she was elected because of his campaign on our city being a tale of 2 cities the haves and the have not and those who have not are usually the ones who wind up being very. the city has always wanted to forget about what island city is want to forget about the people who are buried there wanted to forget about the fact that there is a potter's field but there is a place where difficult stories are hidden the fact they were using inmates to maintain this act is the site where 1000000 souls are buried where so much of new york city history is varied is the meant of the inequality that has existed in this

city for centuries. israel stuff military pressure on the gaza strip with ground forces joining the air assault in a coordinated attack on palestinian lands raising fears i mean facial played east in minutes. actually show you what it's like when the rocket south beirut is there it is. meanwhile saw and saw heard across the television bringing life 3rd to a standstill gaza militants say nearly 2000 rockets have been fired into israel since the tensions flared on monday. retired u.s. military officers say that they are tired of the state of the nation with this left wing.