meaning yes the clutter ceased door mama was a shade but they say you could be when you get out of the sky. it's nice in your chicago just recently it's off what's your case mistress. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to get a feel of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then . hello and welcome to crossfire for all things are considered i'm peter lavelle who

is a fascist well given the state of our politics a fascist is your political opponent even mortal enemy tragically and dangerously the term fascist is more times than not a political slower to destroy someone's character fascism is an odious ideology and political practice we all should be careful when referencing. cross talking fascism i'm joined by my guest goldstein in providence he's the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and in budapest we cross to george samueli he is a pod kauser at the gaggle which can be found on you tube rumble and locals are gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime he want and i always appreciated it's going to vladimir 1st let me i'm very glad to have you and george on the program to talk about this very important topic because being

a trained academic historian in modern european and russian history and still dabble in it because i get to talk to a very interesting people like yourself and george on this program i'm very disturbed in mainstream media and in. political political diatribes so that people used the term fascist it's a very important term it's very dangerous term i think we have to use a lot of precision when using it because if you don't you minimize the the the fashion experience that was in the 20th century and what could possibly have been in the future so i gave you a reflection here i mean i'm sure you hear the same things i hear how do you feel when you hear he's a fascist she's a fascist going. yeah i think you know that is a double edge sword it is in and it's dangerous and boys oh it's remember geishas 1st of all this tendency to humanize your point of going to call them a freshness is not very good but by using it maybe chipping in to term we actually

and i know he's kind of me saying the freshness of a system fish is or can it be you know meat there is you know there is a definite elements of cultural a legal mentality which eventually you know result in certain actions which can be called fishes of the storm you know as you said to be used very concrete lead to be analyzed because you know i for example in the movement which we've seen in the united states in the u.s. what they call themselves and g 5 places you know a lot of. fish just kind of thinking it was a shit what they do it so we really have to be very careful how when do you think it's really important to come back to the jurors in understand what is it whether behind george the same question to you because it's over use makes it meaningless and that's what i find terrifying as i stressed in my introduction my

1st question of vladimir it is a very odious ideology and if we don't keep tabs on it in the right way then it can be applied to anything and if it can be played to anything it doesn't mean anything go ahead george. that's exactly right so i think that if we think about one of the smashing of the many in fact it was obviously. a political movement or a series of political movements that arose in the autumn of the well of war one and again a response of a collapse of several of the european empires the collapse of the states economic dislocation and and a year all the rest the great inflation in germany of the great depression and so on and so the passion that might be located in that particular historical phenomenon and. look even within that phenomenon there were a wide variety of right. i mean it closer was mayor in and i was leading it but

most of these flash of them was very different though national socialism and that it was very different rome frank frank it was a time very different from 40. so if you have to somehow really tried to find me what aspects of these new movement has calmed and then you extend it into your chair what is it that we really find dangerous impregnating about any possible revivals of bashing and i think we're in the blood in him mention her and she. and what's black lives matter then you can see the the parallels between that passion and phenomenon of a 100 years ago namely the result of 2 political violence and name all or any ideology and the opportunism of supposedly democratic politicians can use street moms in order to achieve their political

goals and i think that's a kind of a as soon as the legacy of the crashing movements of those types i think in a such of a. classic point because you know the way the term is used today in the mainstream it has some kind of singular meaning or conjures up an image or something like that and that's simply not true that is a historical here because i mean it's quite fashionable and i can understand because of the cold war is it you know fascism is the right and then communism is the left here but you know any you can make that argument in the end that's fine but i don't think it's satisfactory at the same time glad i'm here because it's not really left or right in georgia picked up on it already it's a set of political practices ok and i think that and i think in its very astute on the left to say all this i think that fascism is a right as phenomenon and people on the right or that way but no it's about

political practices and that doesn't have a political got grounding in left or right maybe what we're finding out if it's actually in the center go ahead lot of there i would say the size of the mention of what we have to stress is sort of kind of you know cultural sort of movement there's a you know many levels you know we're going to do fine and then to understand what it's not but you know that we may need historians sions of that version you know observe nowadays is there's a cultural got a phenomena which somehow religious certain certain kind of we also thinking it's some kind of hip in his enjoy you joke enjoy musical you know. harmony in the grass it projects in the future but right now in the present there is some kind of obstacle you know in last 8 years it was clear you know grades or i thought that i

go here jews you know who are many. but you know we can move on and we see the same but then you know you know in this movement for example call and try. the faces and whole of human kind of a better guy we're going to go now as a you know that for many people say i'm a liberal democrat the democrats and you know the state there was greed and obama will be greed you know fans i think if you know a and a biden ones are going to read of this triumphalist mean an obstacle in those who help you this is the same guy mentality it just can be soon again and again and again you know in united states they have this concept of war wall of people who know who see this mythical kind of nonsense of the best of the future and they wear or you know like now if only we're going to read of this usual legacy or way of men who you know there were some others you know in ukraine for example of that range

of what do they came up with this is going to concerts really go meet a tsunami like those who are not going to know who are so they are aware of their legacy over russia we do it once we get you know we'll bring it up you know do you want to sell it in so you know there was always political correctness thinking it won't it will go there you know but this is just basically the simplistic money. kind of we will give the wall basan needs and i don't realize it is also going to pretend to know that we're like whoa whoa whoa now i know and it is just you know it's because of that nice week it's just needs kind of something for something i mean culturally 3 me different but it is what we see it again and again in all forms yet it's a completely exclusionary either you know in if you don't know you're not part of the in-group knowing and this is what it makes very exclusionary and very dangerous as i said in my introduction you could end up being a mortal enemies ok because you you don't know the truth you you know george and it

was brought up here you know this kind of mythical past but i think a modern version of 21st version of it is to destroy the past because the only way you can have a president. it is acceptable and a. future that you want you must completely obliterate the past when we've seen this historically tried over and over again and it never ends in a good place and this is being done when i would say on the left go ahead george. well that is an excellent point peter because what most people. have traditionally not on the snow on that what we term fashion is really a dynamic and i restive culturally and nihilistic of phenomena and yet people are always going to use that i think with conservative clarity and conservatism i mean as i mentioned earlier you know people refer to it or see it as an ashes or she was a clerical conservative same with rank of marital conservatives i mean even if they

have clashed with allies and so what you talked about the the these mobs in the street who share their own statues who chaired their own history and who you know just see the sea tradition and adjust and be a relic that needs to be swept away that that is goes to the heart of rations and because that does that it is exactly what the mentality of the head of year old was in a conservative you have absolutely no interest at all in. history or german culture he was a nihilist and he was the last that he unleashed to go on books that he had back and then you know the days the in the parallels between the models that were tearing down statues last year and who go around today you're a nice university is resigning all this is white supremacy this is white

imperialism this is anglo-saxon political tradition which means that it's just slavery and the oppression of the colored people by the white man so let's get this got well in the jar scenery the interesting thing for me i'm watching all this you know. changing names of libraries i taking down statues how i can anyone explain to me how does that end systemic racism when you take a statue away how does that how does it how does it solve their perceived problem go ahead george before we go to the break. when it goes it doesn't and you know he and it's really just a matter of all you know jeremy. the public into it's. generally you know you it was us because of course you'll. find out all the tradition you were a defender of white supremacy your depend on here is a. well george i would have to jump in here we're going to go to a break here but you know you mention the right word your terrorized florida ok we're going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on fascism

state with. no one has ever cruised around the globe in an inflatable catamaran before. stuff. but just gives it but. it is such a cruise you need a solid crew people you can share a foxhole with so to speak. to do with the film was the one that. was not the most evil these let me ask you i could just love them enough my foot to rescue the girl with

a chip but you gotta look what do you need for us to get that you've got the money for a good committee. when you look up. welcome back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing fascism.

ok let's go back a lot of here let me in the 1st part of the program we discussed the varieties of what could be described as fascist movements fascist ideas fascist practices here and now we can and you brought it up so i'm going to go back to you one of this whole phenomenon from woke ism and it's exclusively focused on race and it's coming from what i think it's fair to say from the left here and it's completely self-referential because. there's nothing you can do about your your the color of your skin you're just born that way ok and this is so there's no in this kind of woke asst. ideology there is no redemption because you were born in oppressor i mean that is such a self-referential ideology and george used the word at the very end of the 1st part of the program it terrorizes you go headline america. first of all those babies you know on the reality are not in a serious and now this is the story of conservatives as well and so i'm going to.

you know say you know walking. with all their might columbus you know imagining it's like they live on these shores he was totally a deal be generic under my eyes are at stake. you know. with their big white man showed up and it was without the need of. he said it was in the fine and dandy. as i said this is a bad omen of going to face this thinking that you know our meeting up to has you do it in future and someday the office the group in manila give it you feel it but you are mentioning states that my as you know when when they saw this or as the danger i mean from spain you know what would they do they came up with this idea of center of ways in dozens of people that in their hearts out whole big deal to find it a solution they didn't find a solution this is this is just draft if they're rising vicious which is

a way rather than sort of walk in all together towards i'm going to you know meaningful you story going to be you know as a solution if it's dry and somebody what needs to secularize destroy this and walk there and you know that it is so destructive ultimately and we've seen it is being repeated again and again and this this tie even scapegoating some going to ruben called in by elimination it will get somewhere this is the this is ultimately oppression but i would add one more thing the day general this it i think of the situation of the state of the really give a book that high priest intellectuals you know it again people what is supposed to be our you know when or whether it just crowds screams and yells you know down with these down unless it's one thing but intellectuals will say guys let's look at things historically let's says the less it can all that it would we don't know all the truth let's let's be kambal know now he's intellectuals kind of feed it if you did with a kind of a theory's feed it was kind of more and more information about the abuses of

whoever they want to accuse so there's a bit dangerous but i'm going to talk so i leave the little home my job and just a silence for internet accused all or one you know denies it because it would only have a dialogue and you know if it leads up to to wilde's they will they're cowards and tended to say that they're cowards i think it's a professional manager ariel class they'd legitimize their fear you know you know george i don't want to go down this road. hole too deep here but you know let's look at the issue of racism in slave lee and reparations i mean if you look at you know white people didn't invent slavery white people were enslaved of all through history ok and the historical fact is that it was white people that ended slavery as we know it today and the world almost completely eradicated it it still does exist in some pockets but it was it was and i have to give the the english the

credit you know they said this is not good we're going to use our our vast sea power we're going to start hounding these people to destroy this trade i mean that happened over the last few 100 years from time immemorial there is been slavery but to these wolk is walking around it it's something that's been around for 300 years i mean it's so a historical and it's cynical go ahead george. exactly right and the exact. the. colored people are not the only ones who have been in slavery and as you say slavery has been around since the beginning of time and you know i mean you're going to talk about philosophy remember the the great 8 year olds philosophy revolved around the mosque the slave dialectic i just use that a crucial moment in the growth of self consciousness of man in other words slavery was just went part and parcel of war and the new orleans slave maccormack conquer

all of the conquer so there's nothing at all that this is uniquely whites against colored people but what's really happening now is that because this a historical that the destruction of people's lives and careers if they refuse to follow our culture because what we have not as black lives matter is a cult and he demands none of the reasons just as you know the fashions leaders of the conscript choir obese and so if you follow. football in the united kingdom before every single match every single day all of the players at the sit and take the mean yes and no one has any choice on it no one says well i don't really see why we have to take a need for this organization of black lives matter i mean i you know there's a lot of very. unsavory aspects of this organization no everybody has to take the name and you don't take money your can feel the her off of. the sporting or

color it is and so you see this through out of the culture of the people you know expressed some skepticism as they will you know why and why don't you know why why do i have to accept this idea well you know you do have to because if you don't you will lose your position and worse you know there was also the criminal penalties that might come. down the pike because you know you're might be deemed gaging in hate speech and so then you. are it is so you can see how this mentality now melts together with the state and to create illusions to have those who follow you know the correct your logical doctrine yeah and it obviously creates a chilling effect ok you do you don't want to express an opinion because you don't want the wrath of these people here you know a lot of your ga i'm going to date us ok on this program here i have to admit i was

very interested in the frankfurt school the critical theory i mean i read about it was very very interesting to me it was a new iteration of marxism basically putting in culture and taking out race here i never thought it would be a user's manual i guess that's what really caught me off guard here let me talk about that there because this is you know and i'm not just saying this is a marxism now this is what we call the in the in the literature western marxism the frankfurt school many of their members came to the united states during and after the 2nd world war and became very influential thinkers ok there's a man named martin j. he's written a wonderful book about it if you want to read about it i think it's called the dialectical imagination fascinating book i've read it a number of times but like i said i didn't take it as a user's manual it was actually a warning for me go ahead lot of. yeah i don't fortunately you know we basically do have to go back to the roots and i believe you know that economics lies are the

foundation of many things and improvement of humor lives is fundamental in subset huge of all there are with some kind of ingenue going to civil there somewhere identity paula gates are or any round of pleasant it's near sighted so maybe it's easier to do you know it's right she's here to introduce some kind of new legislature than the change economics and make you know everybody but daigle saying anomic why that's why a lot of intellectuals welzel that it's much easier. but there are it in reference to our previous discussion as they were i would say here we have like. clinton champions or who walk eason's and they're tired of it so what else should have any competition for example is that asians that libya they want it into sort of not exists and believe that it's out and it would have us right now there never was a war didn't leave militia now have it live markets than our believe is destroyed

it went in out of the rings late so that let's that there isn't a way but also it will result of this kind of a very it may your big implication of some day of you know sort of points of the who quality whether you think that you know what i view as a bit and you want to introduce somebody who well did you end up just drawing any down or sort of just an hour that little of games of people selling you know in slave people is the same lay people who live flighty so this is a bit off and you know if you can't see the whole this this project seized on 'd that yeah i mean if george i mean absolutely i mean they don't i mean this is just one gross form of virtue signaling because it's really people here it's kind of white liberal suburbanites you know professional manager class that push this here they donate money like is eternal somehow absolves them of the of their collective go. which i thought we were supposed to believe in collective guilt ok and then they just kind of walk away from it in a for me it's kind of like you people go into

a room they may take the pin out of the grenade they toss it in then they leave the room i mean there's not much downside for them but everybody else gets a trap no go ahead george. yes exactly and of course it's much worse than just paradox i mean there's a. sinister agenda to it because you give people really slogans splash splash and splashes they move into ukraine and align themselves real those who actually rational. i'm explaining that it's the russians 1 who are the hash of the same thing of course happened 3 in yugoslavia where the suburbs led by and also british who actually wanted to maintain the multi-national multidenominational yugoslavia want to keep it going then with the fascist. clashes apologist the locals call them just been growing with the democrats so all of this is a kind of there's

a very sinister game that isn't right and again you look at obama by the terrible role in all of this i mean what he did domestically how he use this slogan and demonizing his political opponents with it with this racist clashes but you know look at again what what he did in syria where you know you have a very cynical way aligned insult with written people who exactly raised it's we're going to be oppressors you know whether it's oppressive and we can george we can add to that we can add to that every single year waffen s.s. units you know they commemorate the collaboration with the nazis in ukraine and in baltic republics the state department tony blinken where are you i thought you were all about you know norm that's ok and values they never say anything about it it's like a little cult. sure a lot of people these people here are gentlemen that's all the time i've had fascinating discussion here i want to thank my guests in providence and in budapest

and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here arche see you next time and remember. new york is really what america is about. when our mayor took our face she was elected because of his campaign on our city being a tale of 2 cities that has and has not and those who have not are usually the ones who wind up being very hard out of the city has always wanted to forget about iowa city has wanted to forget about the people who are buried there wanted to forget

about the fact that there is a potter's field but there is a place where difficult stories are hidden the fact they were using inmates to maintain this act is burial site where 1000000 souls are buried where so much of new york city history is parried is document of the inequality that has existed in this city for centuries. is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation community. are you going the right way or are you being the. direct. forces freight.

in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or a maybe in the shallows. americans love buying homes. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country a large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. and be really interesting to dial it back and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the united states not just that old question of the american dream the bigger question of who the dream is and for.

israel military pressure against the gaza strip with ground forces joining. its children caught in the crossfire. from peace activists for will to. be in the barrel. shooting in. tel aviv as he sits and only the boats are busy at this time. nothing on the streets. bringing life there to a standstill. 1800 rockets have been fired into israel as tensions flared. retard u.s. military officers say that their.