stay close because a fresh episode of worlds apart gets its start right now. welcome to worlds apart and the garbage 19th and damning has prompted a lot of soul searching on pulled the personal and the national levels just balloting all wisdoms and really positing eternal questions and g. among them is what kind of economic social or political water or water is a most conducive to the well being of people living under them and what does a well being even mean in this day and age well to discuss that i'm now joined by

a. professor of political economy and international development at king's college london a professor is there to talk to you thank you very much for taking the time and to thank you for the invitation now there is a lot of talk right now in the west about the oldest apocalyptic battle but when the forces of liberalism and authoritarianism and what i find keeps you sitting about your writing is that you're essentially claim that liberalism or rather new liberalism with its accord in the cannot make a political systems has its sell because i mean the current nation of authoritarianism isn't it blasphemous to suggest something like that in polite society. in a sense it is because a lot of the conventional discourse in the west in the united states in india about kingdom in particular but also across the opinion is that these countries embody

democracy and whatever they do is democratic by definition and it defines it political standards that the rest of the world should follow and this has always been a mistake it has always been misguided and these days each is becoming absurd now liberalism it can associated with a particular form of democracy since it came into being in the late 1970 s. early 1980 s. our form of democracy that was itself a thorn tarion think margaret thatcher think ronald reagan as the main political actors of now liberalism at that time remember also that now infamous came in one of the 1st versions that romel authoritarian of chile under general pinochet argentina under the military rulers of the late 1970 s. turkey are after the military coup in 1990 i know you identify yourself as

a marxist and over the last couple of years we've seen. marxism and transnational capitalism and now liberalism sort of core easy app to each other and at the umbrella of this are called me or lack what do you think about this sat alliance and as paradoxical as it may seem isn't such development actually pretty natural pretty logical. i think there has been a lot of interest recently in the ideals of the left's ideals of solidarity our ideals of equality and a lot of concern with the type of society that now liberalism has created the societies that are increasingly under equal in a way that is considered to be acceptable by the majority of the population this has led to realisation of these difficulties in delhi and rejection of those principles has led to the rise of must movements. in the united states most

recently movements of the left associated with black lives matter and the left wing of the democratic party with the number of other. wings as well in the united kingdom under germany corbin when he was leader of the liberal party and going back in time series are typically a series of some significant must movements in spain are in brazil in a whole number of of of countries now these movements have their own impulse and i think the perception of alliance up a pop is because of the realisation by some sectors of the global elite particularly now in the united states that they have to give in something in order to avoid are some serious forms of social collapse that will witnessed in the united states in the past few months now as you pointed out in your writing in the

current system since to be the victim of its own success as the moonlight accumulates the more favorable conditions it creates for its out there last capable of how 50 functioning it seems to be and if we look at the act kerry patterns of wealth or income distribution that absolutely unsustainable they make the system are totally on stable and yet it's beneficiaries very bad. on keeping it the way these buying something that's not it changes who or what can possibly result of this predicament nothing will change except through pressure from below elite deal through not to do it that has been the case that the left has been extremely weak and absent from the political scene for a few becky and what we find is exactly as you pointed out and no power full mel liberalism. dominating

a large number of countries in the world but leading the global economy to the deepest crises it has experienced since 1929 that's not a healthy system and then after each of these crises no economic growth rates ever before which make even beat despite all the cost may even be something that in the longer term is good in inverted commas for the global economy because of the environmental consequences of now liberalism itself so it's not good for people in the short term now liberalism is not good for people in the longer term it has to change. via social democracy via different forms of 3rd way is an attempt or to go through a terrine route think about trump for example have all failed one after the other clear rebounds through joe by that joe biden is leading at the moment is a new one and we'll have to see how successful it is highlighted let's talk about

both of them because you make a very interesting point richard by the way may get us into trouble with you but i want to add more is it nonetheless as. you said before that the political ad project of a neo liberalism includes a form of democracy that is designed to insulate economic decision making from the people the boris and the only choice they have lab is that men to shape. radiance of a neo liberalism rather than the wind this system and that system and i wonder if trump . was a bit of an exception because as as a champion of the real sector sure he was part of caught parcel of american capitalism but as a champion of the real sector wasn't he at least s. that aside from distort all sorry to cheer financialization that capital has missed so infamous for. financialization has been

a feature of us to optimism for the past 50 years or so but intensifying recently often don't trump's electoral victory reflected concerns by large numbers of people that the united states was stagnant so that the economy wasn't generates into jobs that were needed for to maintain people's welfare in large regions in the country and that a more aggressive position of the united states in the international sphere more isolationist and more aggressive at the same time would help to resolve the problem but if not and it created the visual problems internally and the friction between the u.s. and china in particular has not been good for either side but in particular it wasn't good for the united states but what i think the u.s. elites have gone now is to try to rebalance a site that option the trump represented or restavec control over the u.s. state and they're trying something bold this restart national domestic control with

the restoration of an aggressive of foreign policy in the same along the same lines as was the case before donald trump but also a much more aggressive fiscal policy of domestically and they'll try and see if this combination works the biden recession has ended up properly that this retort called concern for the middle class and the common folks that given how casually they're using a b. and their money friend and how a bleak and inflated ed totally nontransparent economic bills are do you day think that social justice is is one of their jannie and concerns as they claim. i don't think it goes through of the prism of social justice and then surely not you know delivering for the common folks all the bills that i buy to miss ration has rolled out so far at rhetorical interest if all they aim to benefit

the you know the ordinary people the ordinary americans yes that's that's the discourse and in some measure this is to happen if there are improvements in health care for example that is very important movements in terms of pensions and welfare benefits that is all very valuable but in my view the main concern is with the stabilization of now liberalism in iraq it's to give the reams of void having to give up the fingers so that is. the strategy of the u.s. elite associated with the democratic party and dave of police to the left in order to keep the country intact very frightened after the 6th of january this year and all the heating up of rhetoric around donald trump and the militias around trump so i decided to pivot left a little bit to see if they can restabilize the system but the concern is not with

the movement in the lives of people per se that is a secondary sort of the main concern is just a by the an economy that functions primarily for the rich it's functions for primarily for the large corporations they are the ones that have gained the most from all of these things but i was asian packages that have been watched after the after the and then now speaking about the fear that you mentioned 2020 has been the most violent year in america this century so why the number of murders has risen by 30 percent and you cannot provide soley on depend demick not going up this or that happened in other western countries or even if stricter. lockdown measures and many of those crimes when we look at their distribution they take place in poor urban areas that have been neglected for many tickets even though they have been voting. on the democratic side i know that you said before

the democrats had to say goodbye to the american dream this idea that. you know our children believe better than as but how far off is the american nightmare because it's one thing to you know just say goodbye to the american dream but when you have the number of murders rising by one 3rd in one year that that looks pretty scary. and not in states is a country that has been symptom violence since its foundation of living in a violent society is is part of the nature of the country itself. levels of violence fluctuates over time but the difficulty is the structural profound difficulty that i see that the us economy cannot generate jobs and incomes for its population particularly for its young this is bound to leap to a more fractious society to a society where people are by and large disillusioned by

a large feel that they have no options and by a large then consider all the alternatives some of which may be illegal or based on violence or may be based on ganga activity and that also feeds into a longer us for dominant which is the right wing militias these are also very frequently people who are disillusioned unhappy frustrated and in the case of the us really has that got us are even to be here fair i mean i we're only talking about right wing militias because i have lots of france living in areas like chicago and minneapolis and it's not that you know chunks of what is folks waging violence there it's people who subscribe to your grand of politics that wrecking an absolutely. cares in some of the community is looting destry alluding to shocks that threatening people causing trouble social disintegration should

actually be a little bit more balanced here i'm sorry about the whole what you know about my brother politics and i certainly don't live in the united states and i don't preach the people so but somebody else was shocked i don't think that's the way i am i what i mean is that are those people who do that they believe themselves to be marx as they're talking about marx as if i don't know if they are i haven't spoken to any of them so you have to speak to them and see what they have to say on the ellen for sure is there is a marxist moment i do not know so you know i think you should speak to them and find out what they think what i think is that you meet must movements in the united states as the only white just focalize a society that is founded on violence that is founded on racism and i think the b.l.m. movement has filed light to these difficulties in us society that have existed for a very long time and that has you know very positive movement overall there have been of events which fully disagree with but there has been

a lot of police violence around it has been a lot of police infiltration in those movements and i have been a lot of unfortunate developments from that the odds it states is not a paradigm of democracy it is not a country that's founded on liberal ideals and is a country that is founded on slavery and inequality and it's a country that is failing to update often because of the inequalities that it has created been founded on and produced over time both domestically and abroad as well well professor we have to take your very short break right now but they will be back in just a few moments. welcome

to max hazard survival guide. looking forward to year. this is what happens to pleasures in britain philip as you watch as a report. welcome back to worlds apart with. a professor of political economy and international development at king's college london professor before the break right talking about this sort of social bankruptcy of neo liberalism and it's not that. it's new i mean many of the trends many of the signs you mentioned broke visible

after the global financial crisis of 2008 but there were definitely exacerbated by 19 how do you think it will act or how do you see the radio vaccine be the thinking of the elites how well do you think they are adjusting to the new conditions. with great difficulty and many doubts. in very different ways if you can trust the united kingdom where i live at the moment that has not been a realisation that the level of the lives that something has got to change only because there hasn't been has been a lot of frustration about hasn't been a lot of our revolt on the part of the people who are the most victimized by the pond them in the case of the united states it has been more visible this this level of dissatisfaction but in several countries there have been criticisms of a public policy or government action or government inaction at the moment all the attention focuses on india but that is

a lot going on in brazil as well there are obvious disputes in south africa and in other countries so maybe the pond only will serve to highlight the inefficiencies of governments the insufficiencies of public action and that you know ability of some of the most powerful countries in the world to protect their own populations from from the violence now i know that you've been critical of so-called nationalist authoritarianism but it's a better approach worst of it 1000 made it absolutely clear that when worse comes to worse you cannot rely on anyone but yourself and least of all on global production change i think they have already been reached on august you know sort of locker lies the production of most vital supplies and that's also in a way after warm of the reem by well the economy and politics

you know grounding down in in real life in the real needs of the people as much as you maybe there are distrustful of nationalists at the ritz aaron is don't you think that the national track is the only way of sort of reigning in the collapse in any of the neo liberalism of no liberalism. it has tended to be internationalist in the sense of globalization of production globalization of cultural patterns globalization all finites it now liberalism is a form of capitalism it wants to accumulate wants to make profit what the pandemic has shown or one of the things from them across stone is that those very long very complex very internationalized production chains are very vulnerable as well. people are aware of that but then suddenly the whole house falls down on their heads and their production lines up our allies across the world automobiles for example or chip makers and telephone producers electronics etc have been suffering

enormously because so there has been descendants huge repatriate production also. as as an example blocks of personal protective equipment that was the 1st and came up very clearly if you couldn't produce those you wouldn't pass them because borders closed down to be king of the problem that can be good that can be progressive that can generate jobs that can reestablish coherence of systems of production within countries then it is within countries that jobs are created and it was within countries that people live and they need a policy of economic policies that will produce and sustain welfare for themselves and their families with it now home and so i see no problem at all with that the difficulty becomes one that when nationalism becomes aggressive towards others that was the case clearly even in the united states under donald trump a very nationalistic and strong rhetoric that was directed against the other

regrets right now that's bill's over into racism and discrimination i mean all due respect i think gary's team this is the sexism administration is not much better i mean all they talk about the biden and mr snow they talk about right now is this i mentioned before the apocalypse. battle because then liberalism or neo liberalism and authoritarian isn't. as if they don't have more pressing issues at home and this is what i want to tear are asking about why do you think. the liberal elites feel the need to pick up this battle with this so-called authoritarians right now or rather than minding and solving that own domestic problems because attempt they believe that this serves as a smokescreen that backs on other countries for political reasons serves as a smokescreen to allow them to restart boost our domestic league central project

it's a brought so it's not an issue of principle and the west is used to using democracy old emotional democracy as a stick to beat other countries with and to transform the politics of other countries into intervene in other countries using this excuse but this is not a sincere a project or they want to start with saudi arabia there was start with some of their allies that are not democratic at all and are that receive a complete pos in terms of their internal politics so we cannot start the conversation by talking about the rhetoric of the west little look at that interests and how to push forward those interests now this issue of a moral or humanitarian litter ship is a very dear it's in the advocates of neo liberalism and. at least when it comes to rhetoric but if we actually look at how they've been dealing with the combination

the damage western countries have been hoarding back since most of them sounds i mean a candidate for example has contracted 6 times the number of the vaccine that it needs the united states has been talking to one times the number of the european union has attracted a few times the number that they need while let's say africa remains largely unprotected we imagine the issue of be a lamb before but do you think black lives beyond the western political context do they really matter that she is the advocates of a neo liberalism look. i think there is a perception vacs if the virus is not eliminated everywhere there will be new variants emerging and no one will be safe however. within the lead circles certainly in the west that population will protect it 1st and that is why they're hoarding the vaccines and then they can dispense some of the excess stock as

foreign aid and by asking the glory of helping other peoples this is not the right way for the right way is every person counts everybody should have the same right to vaccines the production and distribution should have been centralized so that equal quotas who have been allocated to different countries on the base a population that should have been done the other 2 thing that you have been done is to break the patents on the production of us seems so that different countries different companies could be producing that and that it is scandals that this hasn't happened yet that hasn't happened for reasons of profit for reasons of the market of over technology so for the west these things count more than life itself especially when it's the life lives of other people's. now the eruption before any arriving that ribbon damage is likely to be a marker of. of the transfer of head jamey from west to east but i'm not sure if it is about the east is so eager to be had jam and i mean sure china

russia many other countries have their own vision of how society should function how to deliver common good say in the most efficient way but i'm not sure they're seeking to impose their visions their designs another step i don't really talking about the you know sort of be a shift going to have germany i'm not sure if russia or china how of a vision off again would be wrong but again if for themselves but the west certainly the us and if some countries slip away from the sphere of influence of the west will do not follow the policy interests of the west they are treated as rivals and treated with extreme hostility are the cause of china's particularly important because of the size of the population in country the rate of economic growth and the way in which china has interacted with other regions of the uk

because of its economic sides the west has responded to distrust by trying to accommodate sometime by trying to ignore sometimes are trying to absorb them out by trying to confront the realisation that china is not going away it has a unique that is that is likely this this ongoing bottle is likely to continue also before that gets from our but it is cause of primarily by the aggressive behavior of the west towards any country that steps out of who are now i think that brings us to play the ship and this is going to be my and my last question today at leadership is definitely not the only way of securing your interest but also a great. i think it's pretty clear that both you and i are we believe that the west is not very keen on carrying the latter but if wants to preserve the former you know their world was working in its interests and i wonder if we can have

this transition to a better. fairer more humane global order without a major war how far do you think neo liberal forces a willing to go to preserve their privileges. i think they will go all the way of the issue of war i don't think it arrives or arises in the sense that there is no other country representing a complete much of sets of ideals i think the great michael will be inside countries and it's a political battle it's a battle for hearts and minds it's vital for understanding the aspirations of populations there is a an even bigger trouble that lies outside of us which is the environmental disaster climate change is irreversible at this point in time would be to about to meet your own pain and mel liberalism is not equipped that who has no interest in

addressing this particular problem so this is a major challenge that equals around must own front any of that in the case of most knowledgeable governments around the world it's against their own governments in order to get the right policies in place this is an x. is a national issue for the majority of the population and not while i have a special a shot at the head we'll have to discuss them on a time professor but that but a time being we have to. keep it short but thank you very much for being with us today thank you so much i take it for watching hope to syria again next week for all the parties. but.

no one has ever cruised around the globe in an inflatable transom around before. a deal reached such. just gives you. such a cruise you need a solid crew people you can share a foxhole with so to speak. you can do with little ones. who want to have the money will be the money from us a bit ascii. that you have. to get the deal with but what will you need for

gas if you got the relief we're going to maybe. shocking images of children killed in the crossfire as a week of rage between israel and gaza shows no signs of relenting barrages of missiles from both sides have intensified. their children their 23 and 4 years old what did they do that made this route to cuba that. would be so. stop of the madness of the is really president chaos reigns on the streets with our a been jewish mobs facing off shops or vandalized cars torched on a drive dragged from his vehicle and. tensions run high at

rallies across europe.