about his indian variant i protected against the indian variant and possibly yes i think it's likely that you are it's if you've been vaccinated a very long time ago you and your researchers might drop to a level where it's more difficult for them to protect against the indian variants and again so your original that's going to be in a small number of people and if you have hired you probably charges as you should have thought about submission in most people you'll be protected against nearly all variants to a substantial except what i mean is your very unlikely to end up all spittle or severely on well you might have some symptoms but it should be a mild exception and i know you helped countless millions of people with with this vaccine and you're working maybe you moved on working on malaria which kills 400000 people a year but just a quick practical question if you experience more painful thing a defect does that mean your immunity immune system is stronger in some ways the

good thing if you experience more pain after the vaccine you know i'm afraid not hurt you like to feel you were being rewarded for your pain by having stronger music but that doesn't seem to be located with dyslexia or with a large variety of other vaccines look both immune responses once one of them causes your arms or hurts if you achieve hurt or feel a bit flu ish the other increases your antibodies why does it not work so well in south african varian do we know why because these initial trials and phase are in would earn or sign a farm the chinese one was good your one novak's johnson and johnson don't seem to be effective against a south african variant as well as one. i'm afraid that's not going through so all it's being done with our exene against us is we don't have very small trial 2000 people out of the 60000 who have been in trials or. were tested in south africa and all we were able to do is to get

a small number of cases miles disease now as i said earlier it's much more important that we can protect against severe disease and it's very likely looking at the results with axioms but all of the existing that scene's get significant protection against severe disease with the south african barriers unless security has dropped a lot over europe so what was measured in that small south african trial was protection against mild disease which was not statistically significantly present but the numbers which was small to say very much but we know that our that scene is very similar in that seat at the johnson and johnson taxi or similar technology cers and lee johnson and johnson that seem clearly what works against more severe south african variant interactions more what is the interaction with steroids because their advice here in the national health service is going to wait 2 weeks for taking steroids or oral or injecting steroids before the vaccine until weeks

afterwards well as an interaction between steroids which is the last resort for many diseases and illnesses you're so very good steroid called eczema certain is one of the main treatments for severe if you go into hospital with oxy you know you'll probably get a sense of what was discovered here and. as one of the 1st effective treatments that is anti inflammatory it dampens down immune responses and once you get to the stage where your lungs are inflamed and your i've been struggling for breast there you have too much inflammation and the steroids and done the spots on the other hand what we're doing with it actually is giving you a new immune response against the current virus and there is. possible but still it's mighty heat generation of a strong response i guess but we don't know the so we don't really know the many times the monsoon where you do things on a precautionary principle and you have to take a decision on who gets the marxian you should or should not be doing so sometimes

it's important to do what seems sensible before you got to finish. on will you should you not or not now i know you've had a busy year maybe you didn't watch our interview with robert gallo the hiv virus pioneer he was suggesting back then in the outbreak of the pandemic a possible possibly the polio vaccine may have an impact on covert and now are tests in russia suggests this may be the case. anything that in your research that might suggest that the polio vaccine is useful somewhere. very different viruses have been several similar suggestions the original one i think was not the tuberculosis vaccine b.c. cheap might protect chickens complete based on really rather limited evidence on the geographic distribution of where there wasn't a lot of fluid and there was a lot of the tb vaccine being. used so who really the evidence for all of these

suggestions is still very very sparse to the minds of students i don't want to dwell on the blood clot element of your vaccine i don't know what you felt about the media coverage of that element but in the very rare cases could it be the additives in the vaccine that cause the blood quarter we just don't know that's presented i'm not sure what you mean by additives it's mainly of virus that is is the vaccine itself look we don't know what's happening yes there's a huge amount of research going on my own view is that you need both of our own picture and the spike and tissue and contribute to the us it's very interesting that it appears to be emerging just in the last few weeks but the 2nd dose of actually most people have to as you know doesn't seem to do there's. a clue as to what's going on i juicing that we will be able to impress those hopefully in the

coming months either was reducing the dose of that scene or giving it a different route or some other maneuver that sir hopefully immediately or at all away from the pure science of research here on the on the logistics of because of logistics because the biggest problem with that solution on the planet at the moment is vaccine supply are not science it's manufacturing it's availability it's getting vaccine to places where there isn't enough i mean israel is supposed to be the groundbreaking country on this and of course while we see the. pictures of atrocities in gaza we know the palestinian numbers of vaccinate there were far less what have you felt when you hear that in the united states 200000 of your vaccines may have been destroyed again because of logistics problems i think what people just forgot the world is the same problem of luck shots or are so incredibly rare

but get so much publicity gloves that's too much focus on the same numerical issue comes up with that i've since we're talking about maybe $8000000.00 doses of to be distributed last year if if we as a global community can do that we have never distributed half a 1000000 doses of any particular vaccine year around the world so we're trying to do something that is not simply more difficult in scale 16 times more difficult than has ever been done before worst and that we're doing it with a new look seen technology use and along the scale of manufacture require it is just extraordinarily high and the manufacturing facilities that we would need really world frankly do not exist so not only do you not have enough manufacturing capacity you don't have people trained to manufacture these and you axioms because the technology of manufacturing is new ones but you also need very simple things

like buy reactor bags may not plastic that are very specialized in availability and there's a. and we've run out of those. as well and these are problems that you could argue that retrospection see we were aware of this was going to be more difficult than making the vaccine providing $10000000.00 doses in it in a year and so it's trying to be so i wish people would focus much more on manufacturing scale not on issues like patents which are not the current problem these manufacturing deficiencies. one trying to get as much maxine to countries where it's desperately needed secretly low income countries who have been well under supplied rich countries i mean despite all those problems there has been a phenomenal success with this as regards developing countries you i know you're working on malaria now you worked on a ball or vaccine. is the reason why the rollout was nowhere near as spectacular

with you or a bone or that scene approved by the european union in the over the summer because they disproportionately were black people who were quarter boll. who it was very different. it was localized essentially just 3 countries in west africa the scale of supply that was needed was millions of billions of tests and while i think one of the big lessons of this pandemic is. is even if you've got great taxing technologies and money even if you can move very quickly like we've never done before and make a vaccine era get licensed you still need a huge upgrade in manufacturing capacity if your need is going to be global and it's very likely look next time as well the lower income countries will lose out because the richer countries will come in as they don't stop i'm on preorder and provide billions of dollars of money up front so manufacturers and state reserve

these like scenes for our country that's very hard to stop the free market economy but of course why not circumvent the free market argue the sign a farm has kind of been doing that by sending out free vaccine all round from the. countenances of of the chinese communist party and give out the information of your famous to the protester all around britain in the past few days against the astra zeneca vaccine because it refuses the your partner has has or that you refuse to give it out apparently bill gates persuaded you that you know this is this is how it should be done. why would you even support the joe biden administration waiver. we support the supply of what's needed now to save lives this year if you have no parsons or decided a year and a half ago 2 hours no patents allowed you would have

a very different start and you might get to burn a 3rd from the closure of the sea or if you change the law or no i can't see how you solve the problems i've just described of not having the manufacturing facilities not having the rowing treatments for vaccines manufacturing that you're running. and not having trained personnel to manufacture the oxy so if you don't have the money fracturing facilities it doesn't matter where you go patents or not you don't have people to make the vaccine who know how to us and are able to make it to a standard that any regulation would approve so look it's idealistic it's wonderful to think of having no parsons for passage of vaccines if you're going to do that you need to do us start not 15 months into the largest and unequipped sickness this century it's not going to make a quick difference even if that were agreed and i don't personally believe that it can be agreed very quickly because people do not like seeing manufacturing are

pushing back strongly i'm not sure i'm sure they are a dark wood wyler of this institution in here is going under severe questions in the united states and boris johnson. angela merkel obviously against the waiver according to the way the joe biden appears to be advocating but then given all of that your malaria research would you do it again and if you get a vaccine to save 4 $100000.00 a year would you partner with a company like astra zeneca again known for some of the biggest $1000000000.00 settlements admitting no wrong doing for a wrongly promoting drugs that that wasn't. what the way they were supposed to be in 500 know what you're referring to the important point is the larry boxing has nothing. it's a partnership between the university of oxford on the sermon stooge of india the world's largest boxing supplier as we just discussed. there an ideal for 8

abstained because they are the biggest supplier of vaccines still a whole continent of africa and they're known for the large scale manufacturers but also the low price of those vaccines of course that's why they're so popular in low income countries because they come to a halt so who for a disease like malaria predominantly kills children predominantly kills children in africa or hundreds of thousands every year and has been a problem for millennia we urgently need a solution we need a malaria vaccine and have actually the technology to make one we just need to invest and the commitment by companies to do that and frankly very few companies are involved at all in malaria in development over the last 30 years and it's fantastic that servants you know india 3 years ago came into our you know with us to manufacture what looks like a very promising taxing resurvey health thank you after the break up british army m

i 5 conspiracy to kill civilians will speak to the lawyer for the families devastated by the ballot by thematic. new york is really what america is about. when our mayor took our face he was elected because of his campaign on our city being a tale of 2 cities that have not and those who have not are usually the ones who are end up being very hard on the city has always wanted to forget about the knowledge city has wanted to forget about the people who are buried there want to forget about the fact that there is a potter's field but there is

a place where difficult stories are hidden the fact they were using inmates to maintain this act is very a site where 1000000 souls are buried where so much of new york city history of spirit is document of the inequality that has existed in this city for centuries. so we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy to confront a sin let it be an arms race based on often spinning dramatic developments only closely and get into disease i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical of time time to sit down and talk. welcome back today about 47 years since the allegedly british state backed dublin

woman bombings the deadliest attack of the troubles but in the past week another flashpoint in the history of the troubles has gone headlines and 10 people killed in the belly movie massacre 9 definitively by british soldiers found to be innocent joining me now from belfast to discuss the result is a lawyer in the valley muffy inquest who drink oh mary thank you so much one drink for coming on i have to say that general mike jackson who's been on this. show said there was no war crimes by the british army he was the parachute regiment captain on the day of what happened on bali muffy there was no cover up he maintained in as a witness at this inquest tell me about the significance of the body movie massacre and this result in the past few days before see just in general jackson it was a press officer for this tragic that one part of a group vault in the death of john law very just record to the. 10 people it imagine to worship jack to the inquest and it was clear from that inquest that he was part of the misinformation that was the date of the local media he was briefing

media and a report appeared in the belfast telegraph newspaper on the allowed into focus 971 was key in that lottery in court were to go and then of course has been turned on its head by the faint in the last this has been very very significant now we know a family after 50 years have been evidence theist report the original inquest and 72172 were shown the r.u.c. never investigated this probably and families literally had to take it on themselves to pay for witnesses gather evidence we brought out the attorney general can years ago open the inquest the family were here it's spend quite a week for the families and there's a lot of schools are said specially you know they're among their loved ones it's been a long journey but there's also some release of shane only under the eyes of the law there is legal then the key isn't that they're innocent even living now can sell for 50 years i mean for our international viewers their implications have

a british army conduct right around the world and well before the valley murphy massacre in yemen give me a yes or a got in the eye witness as the b.b.c. famously apologized for even talking about an eyewitness regarding the $171.00 allegations of. victims being in the hi ira what have you thought of the coverage of the in. quest i know it's going to see more coverage now but i mean what what did the people you represent think of the fact that one of the soldiers used part of the skull of one of the parachute regiment victims as an ashtray that was one of the bits of evidence of it was denied by one of the anonymous witnesses well we heard mary many examples of reality there are she president 3 various witnesses during the course of this in question your great great there was or there was a very media coverage of it now and some local press the phrase at the international press in fact a series of armed journalists and you appeared on one occasion of the day that

gerry adams was given that once and he was more concerned with gerry adams being drilled than the 10 people who lost their days so we saw has been much more international coverage was he did as a husband disappointing that he did it the media have him give this well it deserves plenty of coverage throughout the world it hasn't happened the hopefully he's failings be very critical come to buy the car or will she and south as i said mike jackson and the inquest of the british army don't do conspiracies what was the feeling in the court when witness m 597 said some soldiers were psychopaths in belfast revelling in killing of civilians i mean do you think the british army in ireland were the k.k.k. as he seemed to suggest in the immediate reports of houston now being extolled by penny mordant johnny mercer was johnson's government doggedly is part of this part of this brotherhood keeping things quiet. yes and 5 a saturn was it was

a very impressive legacy that indeed referred to the x.-axis as a brotherhood knight and it can do that because it was using his words. there was a de facto amnesty in place in the north of our under the mean there's always been taught in recent days about the move towards a little on the state by boris johnson as tory government but the reality is and the families of the less there has been the fact the one with the employees for 50 years and through the conflict there been very very few instances incidents of work soldiers or the police officers have been investigated properly for the act for their actions and are usually through force and it's been what very much the exception that they have interferes with a criminal justice system. it was unclear from the queen's speech in the past few days whether morris runs or he's going to pursue this immunity is it your understanding that the soldiers that killed your clients will be immune to prosecution that is uniquely greatly say it was so much on his but it's very very clear that this tory government on tory m.p.'s up the pub in pursuing this matter

now and for that only recent weeks recent most of the last number of years will say that's the direction of traffic and we've yet to see the proposed legislation that we know that's all the probably will be on narration and we can reflect the medal it may be that these families did a legal action against those proposal and it may also have impact have an impact on those current prosecutions you know we have soldier affability so there. you know we have to leave curve it out and those families will be interested to see whether they're actually not only to bring it on the state but also to stay present prosecutions i mean in fairness to boris johnson i know the families were unhappy with his just a phone call to the 1st ministers in the installment and the letter but i mean it was it was johnson who can on this show who said that when when david cameron now involved i know in a in a corruption scandal or his evidence about it he's said there was that david cameron around the cabinet table to join the new can and said you realise there are

people out there who don't want me even to give an inquiry into the killing of the iris and if there are a pattern who can can you understand the pressures on on morris terms. well that's for sure morris is a she is pressure i personally don't feel forest gives a shit about the people of west belfast that you know of the area we're talking about paul morphy here not only the subject of the physical violence of the british army german conflict but also the structural grounds of the unionist it success of british government since then we've had mass discrimination in areas in unemployment so our experience of that really stopped when i grew up in this community our experience of british government is not a good one and i'm not sure boris johnson has any came for these families or indeed up to be honest work class families and britain either he does a straight me as that chain of free minister but he denies that he's only replaced karren brady of northern ireland secretary powell remarks which he said killing by

british soldiers is no crime well let's let's see the proof is in the party to finish forward with this legislation we will we will soon know what his intent is and i must respect the house for these families the family's priority wasn't an apology what they would prefer is justice and the rate to pursue these matters and how to process it and may view he will be attempting to close that door just as it certainly seems to be and handle this british government but hopefully mars will be clear in the next few weeks if that is the case then these families will look at that legislation closely and if there's merit in it the families will need to challenge that any action by the british government approves outdoor look i mean why do you think the media arguably with i think seth will win in promoting the idea that your clients ira militants i mean back to back to you said parts of the cabin i mean it's clear that operation demetrius was drawn up by m i 5 just near

where i'm talking to you why would the media do this why are you unhappy with how the media have worked as regards the thing quest and is it pressure or incompetence . well going back to making sandy want to be here we're briefed by the army and what doesn't appear to have happened is that the media have to look for the other novice from that community if taken what they've been told by the army on their credit and that's certainly what happened on the 11th of august and the article i referred to earlier and through the conflict you know i grew up in this community. we have always had concerns about the media reporting and starless of that report on the accuracy of that met many people through my professional work from england or other nicely who never knew whether these events they didn't look at all were faded and all of a diary until of the key and then they had the inquiry and they can't be angry so listed in the families to bring the say she's too forward what he's saying to us and this is representing. clients in i don't know yemen kenya maybe iraq

having thought you got his victory i think i thought his no soldiers had been sent to jail yet well i think it's important that lawyers lawyers have a rule to play and you know the institutions will prevail justice it's actually the humans who use the instruments who use the legal instruments so lawyers have a very very important rule and what i would say to them is to get out of the avon's to get witness statements this was a major obstacle to me 203040 years later trying to gather the evidence because it was a proper investigation potential gathered out against it you know and that american isms may or may not be there present that if they but they have to face that also they have to campion to get that message out there nationally as well and you saw the legal mechanisms that they conduct a later we started off as county and with virtually little or no one for addition we had a folder of material and after many many years of campion and many years of going and and out of court facing these bottles on the legal front on

a legal front if i sleep got some reward for that or not at the inquest on want to stay so it you know there were more dark there is than do deciples but we never give up the irrepressible spirit of these families were key to that so keep faith in and keep a late nicaea sort of actually wellfleet it be able have the c.m.o. call that we found a positive or call for the families the you know the narrative you must be very conversant with the narrative by the so-called mainstream media that. they keep comparing it to apartheid south africa the british occupation in ireland and then they say there's a through the reconciliation committee. you shouldn't be dragging all of this up what's the feeling of you in the family is when this narrative is continually promoted that what you're doing in danger is pretty thin and no i actually think it's the opposite i think it encourages reconciliation you can't you can't you can't have reconciliation until people have a truce. if you deny them that it's

a school work and that's sort of it nor should or should i think it's the opposite i think what we're involved in at the minute has a hidden fact and i think league of the satans and good legal aid comes and help society should be build after conflict by so i think it's the opposite if you try to throw lane and beat with that that will say that will get worse and worse than it's been for example if you have grandchildren campion who want to live in their grandparents were killed so it's transformative to go through the generations because they'll hear the stories their family and just as all their parents their grandparents and actually their grip conferenced on less you address it people need some this is some closure people need to have a fair process and i think that can help rebuild a society and there's not a conflict as well just finally and briefly on this anniversary of the government and bombings. anything excess we know from the nuremberg trials of the soldiers on duty about. and all protected internationally by just following orders and other

international law any closer to finding out who the real ringleader is and only 5 operation to me has the people who got the soldiers in the positions they were in when they fired upon your clients who these people were well we did have some senior solution recall to go they had a 2 part general geoffrey heard it get out and stu the inquest we had you know general jackson if you tickle a very senior military figure. well we were limited in terms of christian soldiers we were limited in terms of the information that was provided to the coroner by the ministry of defense so waste we had an imperfect process we had to make the best that to achieve called we did. you know we were darkness that were withheld from was or have been destroyed in the meantime we're never confident we had all the information and i'm also involved in a civil action released me up a bit after isn't beatrice and in term of as well so it's not as fate as it was in

court about on that one has. well the british soldiers they all deny wrongdoing border. thank you that's it for the show will be back on wednesday as hearings continue into the corruption trial of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu currently the subject of international attention for the building of fellow students and in the past week some. one else seemed wrong. wrong just don't call. me. yet to shape out just they become educated and engaged equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

israeli warplanes bombard gaza for an 8 day leaving almost $200.00 beds destroying homes in crippling power a mortar infrastructure israel's prime minister 5 to continue the onslaught in response to palestinian rockets while rejecting international calls for a ceasefire right he say hamas spares responsibility for the tragic escalation. i want to say is a former commander in the i.d.f. to the citizens of gaza we love you we want you to leave and know my life you need to know that you'll leave the ship hamas leadership making all the problems and anti israel protests spread cash across europe as thousands.