ah ah hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered. i'm peter about imposing sanctions in the country used to be a policy of last resort. that is not the case today. now washington, sanction scores of countries and even threatens sanctions against suppose the allies, the sanctions work. no, not really. also we have an update on beatrice. i to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess. jordan sent me well we in budapest, he is and podcast at the gaggle which can be found on youtube rumble and locals.

and here in moscow were joined by dmitri bobbitt. she is a political analyst and editor it, you know, it's me, internet media projects are generally hostile rules and the fact that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. ok, let's go to george 1st in budapest, george, you know, the, it used to be when we were coming up as it were, sanctions were something that were done very selectively with a very poignant, directed, targeted outcome. it was a very specific surgical instrument if we can use that german in regards to diplomacy. now it's this blunt objects be in there, swinging it around, to see what they can destroy, what they can impact what they can change. it's always changing behavior, which is a very, very arrogant way of day use defining politics. why is it become that? because is it just because it's a substitute for the salute?

shouldn't sit the substitute for diplomacy because it's implications. are quite amazing. we'll talk about later about how it's changing the world and it's not working for the people that sanction go ahead, george. well, that's exactly right. if you look at what international law states, it's spelled out in the un charter. i mean this article, 51. you have a right to self defense, therefore you have a right to result the sanctions against somebody who is conducting aggressive actions toward you. and as the sanctions that can be imposed by the un security council. but only a very specific circumstance of which is that the security council can only if the target the state is in some way violating international law if it is a threat to international peace. what is now happening is that the european union, and of course, the united states is using sanctions in and ignoring the united nations

and ignoring even the minimum that they would have to go. which is, is there a threat to peace? is anyone threatened? if you look at the russia now found the how is anything that's happening and do not need any kind of a business of any other state low threat to international peace? no threatened to national the you know, i looked at the, just the, when this, what happened this week with that a roof. if you look at the international water, the passengers will all lead out and permitted to go and had towards wayne as it was supposed to do. the only person who was arrested was a bela citizen. now we can argue about the rights and wrongs of that. but in no way was the international community affected by so that was what the us and the you were saying, no basis, all in, in july. even on top of that,

the use of sanctions under international law can be deemed as an act of war. so in that sense, it is disturbing the peace that is supposed to be maintaining its kind of contradictory here in a game at the rushes is on the receiving end of a lot of sanctions, other countries around his way. after all this, my entire lifetime, cuba is still under sanctioned by the united states, but it's not yielding results. i mean, if it's 100, if it's pon panama, if it's a weak country in africa, you might have a little bit more luck. but i mean, if a country has resource and, and resolve, it can usually find these things back and, and what it does is it creates frustration for the country that is creating sanctions. i think it need double down instead of rethinking the whole process. that's what we see right now. go ahead. oh, well, what we're seeing in beller, which is exactly, you know, an example ineffectiveness and absurdity of sanctions. just

a small correction. what george just said. it just broke the russian activist who was arrested. it was also a young woman who accompanied him, who is a russian citizen, but who dissipate that joy and up the lists of russian, policemen who, you know, dispersed the radius in the in means last year. and the aim wants to target, these police spent to make them valuable, to at least, you know, public pool dest, you know, gaming using g docs that exactly, but whatever, she's rushing. so russia is helping her diplomatically to get out of this. and of course, our 1st impulse is to feel be due for the young man 26 years old. well, this young woman even younger than you and i feel that the russian need oh no,

i have the i don't feel pity. ok. i mean, the yeah, i'm sorry, nymph wanted to talk to this person for a very, very good reason and it's very well documented. i mean, what we can discuss here in georgia, i've done great lang, is the thing of the landing of the plan, the, the plane, the means by which was use i think that that is questionable. the fact that they wanted to speak to this individual. there is no question about that and all that, yes, well, i mean, if we all remember ourselves that they, you're 26, you know, we all had different opinions and probably will be a shame for a lot of things we did that age. but these guy did participate in the civil war in your brain. he was infamous, although, but elliana, which was described as a not now not organization, even the of the british and american media. so there reasons why he should have been arrested and he was arrested when he was on the rush and legally you know that

there is one point no sympathy, that there is another sphere that is the law. but when they shut off the bill, russian aerospace and when they are building they want to impose sanctions on just about all the industries including the most important. busy one can do what will be the result there are which will move goals to russia simply because there is no other way for this country to live. in the same way, i mean the sanctions which were imposed on the iraq and which were found during all the 9 years until 2003. the main reason was as we remember, the reparation. why saddam hussein to a war with the use of weapons of mass destruction, the weapon. so once you start, we're not phone. so the sanctions, in fact, we're dreaming though, you know, they lead to the deaths of thousands. so we write to children. you know, i'm not talking about the war, you know, which was,

of course and much great the cry, but the sanctions very crime. and this week we had an article in the corner mist, which said, i'm just quoting, it's an address to way to change other states. in the sanctions, when the poli sci alone is insufficient or military force is dorski already handled? well, let me translate that into blaming we the west, you sang cells when we're too stupid to use diplomacy. or when we're to call would lead to use the need a true false because sanctions is no diplomacy. sanctions is another form of war, you know. and you use it very often when you are in a great state. and unfortunately, this is exactly what we have seen in iraq. what we have seen with you before that again with your florida, you know, the sanctions were imposed because supposedly my washer, which was mistreating the banyan minority and just, you know,

the people who lived in the western press reported the 120000 bill billions were slaughtered by the serbs. and if you disagree at the time, you remember, you were called a flight in the bridge in the british press in the american press in the west, in general, it was supposed to be iron cliff, right. and then it turned out to be a lie because where they've gotten used to live about almost all of these other and that makes a boarded state supported conspiracy theories. but george, the, the, the interesting thing, i mean, the minority kind of gave us inside here. i mean, we have a choice, it's not very many, but it does have choices. and one of them is more reliance on russia, which would seem counter productive to what the west has been trying to nudge was away from its closeness to russia. but i mean on a much broader scale here. i mean, sanctions usually involve using financial instruments, meaning a politicizing,

the dollar in the financial system here. but now people that it's are saying it companies even are saying, but states certainly that we have to get out of the dollar. ok, because the americans and their allies to politicize that. and so that the grades that the currency of the dollar, which are predominantly they want to remain, had had demonic. but it's being counter productive. we have this whole idea of beyond the west new institutions, financial institution trading institutions here and. and because this is that they want rules based, but people say we don't think your roles, we don't understand because they're all one sided. we'll make our own set of rules . go ahead, but that's good. but that was always been the case historically with sanctions because sanctions, which supposedly had their objective undermining or weakening regardless, really led to the strengthening of the government. but because now the government could turn to the beacon and say, look, you know, we're being targeted. i'm just targeted and thereby acquire certain amounts of

legitimacy from the public. moreover, it allows double and actually greater power because now they are justified in utilizing the resources of their country in order to fight off sanctions. so therefore, you know, castro subjected to an embargo by the united states because i am the subject of aggression by the united states. i'm wondering, i just mentioned about in the case of iraq during the 1990 is in that was one of the few cases in which actually the sanctions were just justified by the united nations security council. and that was a good reason for that because at least in that case, it was say, where there was supposedly, you know, he's violating the nonproliferation treaty as it turned out. yeah. he was and, but nonetheless, that was the difference. what was the live and that scene goes with iran. russia went along with the thanks for good russia went along with the sanctions against

north korea visa, un security council sanctions. but what was interesting about that is that it was supposedly targeted, but in fact, they weren't targeted the ordinary people, for the very reason that you can't just simply pick and choose and say, well, you can't have and you can't import anything that leads you to build weapons, a master structure, which means you guardian, for the chemicals that you need for fertilizers that you need for these are the nation that you need. sanitation and you can't import a power generators as soon as so that's why is it individual citizen suffer? because only thing that you'll use, so maybe you will have this you call and have after all a talk, where will these are the target at the centers or target to we on touching civilian is a line anytime. just me a civilians. yeah. i mean, the do use argument hearing you could even, you know,

probably make an argument that baby food has a daily and, and they were rapidly running out of time year. but essentially what it does is it punishes the weakest and the poorest of these countries, not the governments here. i, gerald, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real stay with the the an entire village in alaska has had to move. if another country threaten the wipe out in america, we do everything in our part a project in water. they escaping climate change poses the same threat right now alaska has seen some of the fastest coastal erosion in the world. we lost about

3535 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring it is bad. and that means the river is 35 pounds, then learning was yours for i think we're a part of america, the 3rd from or america ah, the ah ah.

the welcome to cross up were all things considered on peter lavelle? this is the home edition to remind you were discussing some real news. i okay, let's go back to the ma here in moscow, and let's switch gears and we'll talk about what's going on and be our business has been in the news a lot over the last few months. and not always in the ways that we'd like. obviously, the latest data point we have is where president lucas shank met with president putin in sochi. and the readout was kind of a big, boring, very staid. they discussed different issues. they focused on the recent events that were going on with the, the apprehension of a, of a,

a citizen wanted by mens. and they talked about them. a coven. what's the relationship right now? because what the west has been trying to do is, what was the george a 3000000000 dollars dollars will give you, you know, you know, a chump change, you know, to do what we want the, they turned it down. we have this believe what is allegedly a coup attempt recently against the government and minutes here, and now speed up to the president of the russian president city, i'm sorry, talking to boot and is that what western powers wanted ahead demur? well, of course it's want the western powers want to the western powers, in fact, were defeated by their own patriots. you know, on the one hand, they have crush so much that whatever put in is trying to do it. in the former soviet union, they always tried to do the opposite. so when it will question call last year arrest, that's due to 3 russian nationals in means and declared that they wanted to topple

him on based on from moscow the way believed it. and all the newspapers bought it just read it, you know, all of them wanted who can thinker why? who can seeker? and that was the reason why they didn't support the protest in the very beginning. you know, when they were really dangerous for all the other hand, the worst case will question. and this is fountain. who cannot understand because the western trade is ideological and racial, you know, oh gosh, i was visited by the atlantic council members in the end of 2000 and the gene. i challenge our critics to look at the colts. a know what these people told shinkel we respect you. alex sander variable. and the other saying that, you know, we respect the russian soldier and we will help you to protect it from russia, you know. and then these people obviously supported a pretty dangerous, you know,

sometimes violent, protest actions embellish which of course, gets it begins to question and believe me, beller ocean nationalists. i mean, our nurses are no better than the agreed. and in fact, that handled better than the russian was there. also, you ration of the mind sometimes violent, and that's why they're there. they're perfect agent for the western powers. ok, they want to repeat what they did in ukraine, georgia. the go to you, this whole strategy coming from the west is appallingly stupid. ok, it creates the negative return. if they just simply respected the problem 3 sovereignty and allowed the people of beers to decide their own fate. it might actually work out that are better, good, but the more they do this, the more they solidify his our i mean, if these people are just be list years, i mean big time. yeah, exactly,

and that's all as what we've been talking about. that was that you impose pressure sanctions against a solomon. the more you strengthen that government you want, not going to remove. lucas shall go by sanctions. let's say, let's say the sanction or effect what, what would be the, what would be the actual effect of the things out? you would have either misery and starvation on the, on the body of the public. all you would have a civil war in the public. all basically, you know, the russians would move in, not none of these scenarios are in any way to the benefits of the same people and, and when you think of way with the eastern partnership made those eastern european union decent partnership. oh, we're going to move all the state, you know, baylor was georgia ukraine. i mean by john going to move them all out from russia's influence and bring them all over to the west influence. so if you're going to

pursue with that policy, then why you don't have to look at shanker, it makes no sense. so they, you know, one day, you know, that you have mike on bail flying into men's can say, and, you know, we've got some oil that we can sell, you know, you, you know, you know, you don't need to buy one from the russian. you know, you can buy our oil next next day. you know, we need to get rid of the gotcha and go with an absolutely no idea what he's doing . you know, game of the going, you want to jump in there. i want them to pick up 11 ga like greatly, you know, there is some training in the west on the one cram. they keep saying we shouldn't, we wouldn't spot, you know, he would just pop if she never does any independent, you're going. and then what we should in gord walker shall be in the partnership, you know, to move him away from russia. we support the russian sovereignty. yeah, we support the rational sort of you, but we're going to see was bill rush and s page because the they,

they went to the plane and the rest of the model of our agents, you know, call a spade a spade protest. she was. busy an ease they are age and so there is a, this gets a frame. yeah. and sometimes this gets, it gets a violently dangerous, you know, let me just quote, an article problem the next day that you know, it's written by models, petite is editors, road legal. and it's kind of like my plan for bellows. let me just put a little rice that he would be. b, e foss said to the had been designated international way to both means. even though the article says that we should put a price tag on look, i should have, you know, that will teach, will get something and why, why she's suggesting to do it. why? if you're not happy with the sanctions, because both walker shall go and you split the tears is more school a lot about the no will do nothing and well,

this is what i hate. what was this is what is most dangerous when the western press outraging. oh, they're like locked in their box off in, in more school they'll walk in their box or in the, in bar dot, they're locked into a box or in belgrade. what it means. it means that the west is preparing for another war because they, you know, they get mad when someone laughs at that, you know, they say that i'd like to make these people cry. the world isn't locked in at the west because the west to erase, you know, i mean take me if i can tear a page from your play book, it's because it's the idea logically driven. that is why it ends up being irrational and how they come out on the, on the wrong side of so many issues because they have this case where they have lucas behave. and they're trying to find the right combination where they can win on both accounts, which is kind of silly. it's an interesting exercise and they pay a lot of people to sit in. an air conditioned office is outside of langley thinking

about these things. they love lucre sham cole. when lucre shall go quarrels with these are the only moments where they love him. and also all of these has nothing to do, of course, with international law and get it, you know, exactly, we haven't been talking about sanctions against the north stream, but no stream is a rushing driven project. what business does tonight of space have to impose sanctions on this project? it's like rushing poles in thanks. it's on a pipeline from banks, you go to the states, but no one is object and you know you're just being to send it to a logical here. ok. because you know, they, it's all about hedge, a monic power, if you, you know why, why don't confuse, like, you know, they do that because they can do it. ok that's, that's, that's as simple as it gets. and it's very, very eric if you're george, let me go to you. i mean, when you did these, these co planners,

how many i deal with the structure of the, of the be a russian economy? how many of the workers actually work for the state? what percentage of trade goes to rushing here? mean, are they getting this come in and have a buyer sale? so all state property, sell it to western corporations in a misery, the country, or basically duplicate the, the catastrophic outcome that they had ukraine. i mean again, we the 1st part of the part and we talked about thinking this is a form of sanctions, but they won't do because it's in the service of their ideology. it has nothing to do with g o holidays store. no none at all. and, and that's why they can't accept that luca share and go actually has a following. he's really, he's quite popular in bell or maybe not 80 percent, but almost certainly above 50 percent. precisely because he didn't you the west, the neo liberal model of fire sales of the manufacturing industry and being essentially supplicants of the west. it didn't go the parts of ukraine.

so then this is what the united states is now and blinking, and 5 and recommending to ukraine, you know, just fell over, they would give everything over to us. so you know, they want to take, they want to take it away from the ukranian, all of our give it to the western all. and i forgot to model that one for bell rosa because it has no following. and that's why these people like, you know, those are also absurd. how does she hope to win an election in bella rose when she 1st of all, calling for sanctions against her own country? i. how do you, how are you hope to enjoy? we do have the example of what's his name, why do i guess she's the exact rushing? why don't and then and then supporting just these very policies. yeah. let's get rid of all this. manufacturing industry will be very successful or, you know, they, it's barley integrated into the russian economy. they have

a market in russia. let's get rid of that. i just sell everything off to the west and i will, this is the west person. this is the, this is the one that the west is backing. there's no way in the world that this person will enjoy any kind of support. and as you say, we have the why don't model where this is? no, no, and george, what does bell roof produced where they can sell to europe. we don't have much time, but i don't think there are very many things where there is an interesting and dynamic sector in the country. we have to point that out, but most of it's heavy manufacturing would not be accepted in the european union. and that's why they founded in, in the russian market demand give you the last 50 seconds. go ahead. oh, well, just let me point out. the question is often criticized in russia. when he told us, you know, was that nato command in europe in 2001 or just promise to support him and no rush and saw that. and of course there was

a lot of creepy because she was in consequential and sometimes indeed cruel. but it doesn't mean that who can feed him in the way the spit fatal suggest, again called from the article tree. and as they would like to state street, it would be a lot and put their price on his credit threads on matters. the us shot the pre, the man us or war and what is it? it's not a matter. i don't know if you are choking or laughing or having a choking laugh. ok. but here are countries that are saying we should support international law, a specific norms and values, and basically are calling for cold blooded murder. that's what we get. this is all i do want you to be driven by a gentleman will run out of time. i want to thank my guest in budapest and here in moscow, i don't want to think our viewers are watching us here at ortiz the next time. remember, the ah,

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and this morning, headlines enemies i'm neighbors report reveals denmark and spied on anglo merkel the leader of neighboring germany as well as on other he had to say to us intelligence. israel's long standing prime minister benjamin netanyahu may finally be on his way off the opposition. no claims has got enough folks to drive him from office. and coming up to this, how far he travels to the central african republic to shed light on one of the world's work, bailey reported civil war. we got a special report for you as russia helps the government, the counter armed rebel mine had this sounded serial my.