the question is a, for is, how do the warlords get situ deadly weapons? what is clearer is where they get their money. so with come to the village of sliders work at the gold mine looks like everyone's gone. the 1st villagers hid there is still scared of men with guns. local rebels used to force them to work in gold mines like this, a slaves and killed those, refused to do the job or were too exhausted to carry on. now it's relatively safe and people can keep the golden oars themselves. ah, you are a rich man. great. that's how much money you will get for this amount of the new set. something going to

set something building up, its military is the most pressing issue for c r. now, this country has vast and fertile land, enormous deposits available resources, and are working people in order to make this work, the violence to stop constantly roscoe archie from the central african republic join me every thursday on the alex salmon show. and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics, sport, business and show business. i'll see you then in the,

the news the news news. i hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter about imposing sanctions on the country. used to be a policy of last resort. that is not the case today. now, washington sanction scores of countries and even threaten sanctions against suppose the allies do sanctions work? no, not really. also we have an update on beatrice. i

to discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, jordan sent me well, we in budapest, he is in podcast or at the gaggle which can be found on youtube rumble and locals. and here in moscow were joined by dmitri bobbitt. she is a political analyst and editor and you know me, internet media project or a gentleman crossed our rules in the fact that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. ok, let's go to george 1st in budapest and george, you know, the, it used to be when we were coming up as it were, sanctions were something that were done very selectively with a very poignant, directed, targeted outcome. it was a very specific surgical instrument. if we can use that german in regards to diplomacy, now it's this blunt objects be swinging it around to see what they can destroy, what they can impact what they can change. it's always changing behavior, which is a very, very arrogant way of defining politics. why is it

become that? because is it just because it's a substitute for solutions to substitute for diplomacy because it's implications. are quite amazing. we'll talk about later about how it's changing the world and it's not working for the people that sanction go ahead. george. well, that's exactly right. if you look at what international law states, it's spelled out in the un charter. i mean this article, 51. you have a right to self defense. therefore, you have a right to resort to sanctions against somebody who is conducting aggressive actions toward you. and as the sanctions that can be imposed by the un security council. but only a very specific circumstance of which is that the security council can only bose it if the target the state is in some way violating international law if it is a threat to international peace. what is now happening is that the european

union, and of course, the united states is using sanctions in and ignoring the united nations and ignoring even the minimum that they would have to do. which is, is there a threat to peace? is anyone threatened? if you look at the russia now found the how is anything that's happening and do not need any kind of a business of any of the state low threat to international peace, no threats international. the i looked at the, just the, when this, what happened this week is with the roost. if you look at the international water, the passengers will all lead out and permitted to go and head towards the way as it was supposed to do. the only person who was arrested was a bela citizen. now we can argue about the rights and wrongs of that. but in no way

was the international community affected by. so that was what the us and the you were saying, no basis after all an engine, even on top of that, the use of sanctions under international law can be deemed as an act of war. so in that sense, it is disturbing the peace that it's supposed to be maintaining. it's kind of contradictory here in a game at the rushes is on the receiving end of a lot of sanctions. other countries around been, is way after all this my entire lifetime, cuba is still under sanctioned by the united states, but it's not yielding results. i mean, if it's hunter, if it's on panama, if it's a weak country in africa, you might have a little bit more luck. but i mean, if a country has resource and, and resolve, it can usually fight these things back. and, and what it does is it creates frustration for the country that is creating sanctions, i think, in double down instead of rethinking the whole process. that's what we see right

now. go ahead. oh, well, what we're seeing in beller, which is exactly, you know, an example ineffectiveness and absurdity. oh, thank. so it's just a small correction. what george just said. it just broke, you know, the russian activist who was arrested. it was also a young woman who accompanied him, who is a russian citizen, but who participate that you know, joy and up the lists of the russian, policemen who, you know, dispersed the radius in the in means last year. and the aim wants to target these police spend to make them valuable to at least, you know, public pool dest, you know, jamie, use the docs the. exactly, but whatever, she's a rush. and so russia is helping her diplomatically to get out of this. and of course, our 1st impulse is to feel be due for the young man 26 years old. well,

this young woman even younger than him. and i feel that there was a rush. i mean, oh no, i have the man. i don't feel pity. okay. i mean being that yeah, i'm sorry, nymph wanted to talk to this person for a very, very good reason and it's very well documented. i mean, what we can discuss here in georgia, i've done great lang, is the thing of the landing of the plan, the, the plane, the means by which will use i think that, that is questionable. the fact that they wanted to speak to this individual. there is no question about that at all. oh yes. well, i mean, if we all remember ourselves that they, you're 26. you know, we all had different opinions and probably will be a shame for what thinks we did that age. but these guy did participate in the civil war in your grade. he was in from us, although, but daily and which was described as a not now not sure organization, even the,

the british and american media. so there reasons why he should have been arrested and he was arrested when he was on the rush and legally you know that there is one point of view that there is another, you know, sphere that is the war. but when they shut off the bill, russian aerospace and when they are building they want to impose sanctions on just about all the industries including the most important. busy one capital, what will be the result? there are which will move goals to russia simply because there is no other way for this country to survive. in the same way, i mean the sanctions which are imposed on the iraq and which are held during all the 9 years until 2003. the main reason was, as we remember, the reparation why samples seem to a war with the use of weapons of mass destruction, the weapon. so once you start and we're not phone. so the sanctions, in fact,

we're dreaming though, you know, they lead to the deaths of thousands. so we write to children. you know, i'm not even talking about the war, you know, which was of course and much great the cry, but the sanctions for crime. and this week we had an article in the corner missed which said, i'm just quoting, it's an address to way to change other states where the sanctions, when the poli sci alone is insufficient or military force is dorski or heavy hand. well, let me translate that into a blaming dish. we the west, you sang cells when we are too stupid to use diplomacy. or when we're to cowardly to use the need a true false because sanctions is no diplomacy. sanctions is another form of war, you know. and you use it very often when you are in a great state. and unfortunately, this is exactly what we have seen in iraq. what we have seen with you before that

again with your florida, you know, the sanctions were imposed because supposedly my washer, which was mistreating the banyan minority and just, you know, the people who lived in the western press reported that 120002 billions were slaughtered by the serbs. and if you disagree that you remember, you were called a flight in the bridge in the british press in the american press in the west, in general, it was supposed to be iron cliff, right. and then it turned out to be a lie because they were gotten used to live about almost all of these other and that makes boarded state supported conspiracy theories. but george, the, the interesting thing, i mean, the minority kind of gave us inside here. i mean, we have a choice, there's not very many, but it does have choices. and one of them is more reliance on russia, which would seem counter productive to what the west has been trying to deal with

away from its closeness to russia. but i mean on a much broader scale here. i mean, sanctions usually involve using financial instruments, meaning politicizing, the dollar in the financial system here. but now people going to say in companies even are saying, but states certainly that we have to get out of the dollar. ok, because the americans and their allies to politicize that. and so that degrades the currency of the dollar, which are predominantly, they want to remain, had had demonic. but it's being counter productive. we have this whole idea of beyond the west new institutions, financial institution trading institutions here and, and because this is that they want rules based, but people say we don't think your rules. we don't understand because they're all one sided will make our own set of rules. go ahead, but that's good. but that was always been the case historically with sanctions because sanctions, which supposedly had their objective undermining or weakening regardless,

really led to the strengthening of the government. because now the government could turn to the beacon and say, look, you know, we're being targeted. i'm just targeted and thereby acquire certain amounts of legitimacy from the public. moreover, it allows double and actually greater power because now they, they are justified in utilizing the resources of their country in order to fight off sanctions. so therefore, you know, castro subjected to an embargo by the united states because i am the subject of aggression by the united states. i'm wondering, i just mentioned about in the case of iraq during the 1990 is in that was one of the few cases in which actually the sanctions were just justified by the united nations security council. and that was a good reason for that because at least in that case, it was say, well, there was supposedly, you know, he's violating the nonproliferation treaty as well. yeah. he was and,

but nonetheless, that was the difference. what was the live and i think goes with iran. russia went along with the thanks for good russia went along with the sanctions against north korea visa, un security council sanctions. but what was interesting about that is that it was supposedly targeted, but in fact, they weren't targeted the ordinary people, for the very reason that you can't just simply pick and choose and say, well, you can't have and you can't import anything that leads to when they were you to build weapons, a master structure, which means you guardian for chemicals that you need for fertilizers that you need for these are the nation that you need what sanitation. and you can import a power generates as soon as so that's why is it individual citizen suffer? because the only thing that you'll use, so maybe you will have this, you can have all the talk. well, these are the target,

the sectors or targets or we don't touching civilian is a line anytime just a civilians. yeah, i mean the do use argument hearing. you could even, you know, probably make an argument that baby food has a daily and, and they were rapidly running out of time here. but essentially what it does is it punishes the weakest and the poorest of these countries, not the government. here. i just, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real. stay with the the ah, with

me ah ah, i use the welcome acts across stuff where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. this is the home edition to remind you were discussing some real news. i okay, let's go back to the ma here in moscow, and let's switch gears and we'll talk about what's going on and be with parents has

been in the news a lot over the last few months. and not always in the ways that we'd like. obviously, the latest data point we have is where president lucas shank met with president putin in sochi. and the readout was kind of a bit boring, very stayed. they discuss different issues. they focused on the recent events that were going on with the, the apprehension of a, of a, a citizen wanted by men. and they talked about them. a coven. what's the relationship right now? because what the west has been trying to do is, what was the george a 3000000000 dollars dollars will give you, you know, you know, a chump change, you know, to do what we want the, they turned it down. we have this believe what is allegedly a coup attempt recently against the government and men's gear, and now speed up to the president of the revolution president city, i'm sorry, talking to boot and is that what western powers wanted ahead demur?

well, of course it's what was the western policy wanted. the western powers, in fact, were defeated by their own interests. you know, on the one hand, they have crush so much that whatever put in is trying to do it. in the former soviet union, they always try to do the opposite. so when it will question call last year arrest, that's due to 3 russian nationals in music and declared that they wanted to topple him on this office from moscow. the was believed it and all the newspapers bought it just read it, you know, all of them wanted who can think or line who can seeker. and there was the reason why they didn't support the protest in the very beginning. you know, when they were ready dangerous for all the other hand, the west pates will crush and this is fountain who cannot understand because the western trade is ideal. would you call the racial, you know, oh gosh,

i was visited by the atlantic council members in the end of 2000 and the g. and i challenge our critics to look at the goals, you know what these people told shinkel. we respect you alex on the ball and the other saying that, you know, we respect bill russian soldier and we have to be, we'll help you to protect it from russia, you know. and then these people obviously supported a pretty dangerous, you know, sometimes violent, protest actions embellish which of course, gets it begins to question and believe me, beller ocean nationalists. i mean, our nationalists are no better than the agreed. and in fact, they handle better than the russian was there. also, you ration that should be mind sometimes violent. and that's why they're there. they're perfect agent for the western powers. ok, they want to repeat what they did in ukraine, georgia. go to you. this whole strategy coming from the west is appallingly stupid

. ok, a create a negative return if they just simply respected the country sovereignty and allowed the people of beers to decide their own fate. it might actually work out better better. but the more they do this, the more they solidify his our, i mean, if these people are just b list years, i mean big time. yeah, exactly, and that's all as what we've been talking about. so that the war that you impose pressure sanctions against a solomon, the more you strengthen that government, you will not go into remove. lucas shall go by sanctions. let's say, let's say the sanction or effect what, what would be the, what would be the actual effect of the things out? you would have either misery and starvation on the, on the body of the public. or you would have a civil war in the public. all basically, you know, the russians would move in,

not none of these scenarios are in any way to the benefits of the same people and, and when you think of way with the eastern partnership, later, eastern european union decent partnership. oh, we're going to move all the state, you know, baylor was georgia ukraine. i mean by john going to move them all out from russia's influence and bring them all over to the west influence. so if you're going to pursue with a policy, then why you don't have to look at shanker, it makes absolutely no sense. so they, you know, one day, you know, that you have mike on bail flying into men's can say, you know, we've got some oil that we can sell, you know, you, you know, you know, you don't need to buy well from the russian. you know, you can buy our oil next next day. you know, we need to get rid of the gotcha and go with an absolutely no idea what we're doing . you know, game of the going, you want to jump in there. i want them to pick up 11 ga like greatly, you know,

there is some training in the west on the one cram. they keep saying all question was put in spot. you know, he's putting up if she never does any independent your fortune. and then what we should in good shape. what is the partnership, you know, to move to move april russia. we support the russian sovereignty. yeah, we support rational sort of you, but we're going to see was bill rush and s page because the they, they went to the plane and the rest of the bottom of our agents, you know, call a spade a spade protest. she was an ease they are agent. so there is a, this is a frame. yeah. and sometimes this gets a friend. it gets a violently dangerous. you know, let me just quote, an article problem the next day that you know, it's written by vital spectators, editors, road, legal, and it's kind of like my plan for bellows. let me just put a little rights that he would be. b, e foss said to the,

had been designated international way to both means. even though the article says that we should put a price tag on, should have, you know, that will teach will question something. and why, why she's suggesting to do it. why if you're not happy with the sanctions, because both shall go and put the tears in more school a lot about the no will do nothing. and this is what i hate both. and this is what is more dangerous when the western press writing. oh, they're like, they're locked in their box off in, in more school they'll walk in their box or in the in box. they're locked in the box, or in belgrade. what it means. it means that the west is preparing for another war because they, you know, they get mad when someone lost that, you know, they say that battling to make these people cry. the world isn't locked in at the west because the west erase, you know, i mean take me if i can tear

a page from your play book, it's because it's the idea logically driven. that is why it ends up being irrational and how they come out on the, on the wrong side of so many issues. because they have this case where they have lucas behavior. and they're trying to find the right combination where they can win on both accounts, which is kind of silly. it's an interesting exercise and they pay a lot of people to sit in. an air conditioned office is outside of langley thinking about these things. they love lucas sample. when lucre shall go quarrels with these are the only moments where they love him. and also all of these has nothing to do, of course, with international law and get it, you know, exactly, we haven't been talking about sanctions against the north stream, but no stream is a rushing driven project. what business does tonight of space have to impose sanctions on this project? it's like crushing poles in thanks. it's on a pipeline from banks, you go to the states, but no one is object and you know you're just being to send it to

a logical here. ok. because you know, they, it's all about hedge, a monic power, if you, you know, why, why countries like, you know, they do that because they can do it. ok that, that, that, that, that, that simple was a guess. and it's very, very eric if you're george, let me go to you. i mean, when you do these, these co planners, how many i deal with the structure of the, of the be a russian economy. how many of the workers actually work, but the state, what percentage of trade goes to rushing here? mean, are they getting this come in and have a buyer sale? so all state property, sell it to western corporations in a misery, the country, or basically duplicate the, the catastrophic outcome that they had ukraine. i mean again, we the 1st part of the problem we talk about thanks. and this is a form. ringback of sanctions, but they won't do because it's in the service of their ideology. it has nothing to

do with geology store. no, no, none at all. and. and that's why they can't accept that luca share and go actually has a following. he's really, he's quite popular in that was maybe not 80 percent, but almost certainly above 50 percent. precisely because he didn't you the west, the neo liberal model of fire sales of the manufacturing industry and being essentially supplicants of the west. it didn't go the parts. 1 of ukraine . so then this is what united states is now blinking and by and recommending to ukraine, you know, just from wherever they, you know, give everything over to us. so, you know, they want to take, they want to take it away from the ukranian, all of our give it to the western oligarchy. and i forgot to model that one for bella. rosa, because you have no following. and that's why these people like, you know, those are also absurd. how does she hope to win an election in bella

rose when she 1st of all, calling for sanctions against her own country? i how you, how you hope to enjoy. we do have the example of what's his name, why, why she's the know exactly the russian. why don't and then and then supporting just these very policies. yep. let's get rid of all its manufacturing industry will be very successful or, you know, they, it's fairly integrated into the russian economy. they have a market in russia. let's get rid of that. i just sell everything off to the west and i will, this is the west person. this is the, this is the one of the western banking. there's no way in the world that this person will enjoy any kind of support. and as you say, we have the why don't model where this is now in georgia. what does bill route produce where they can sell to europe? we don't have much time, but i don't think there are very many things where there is an interesting and dynamic sector in the country. we have the point that out, but most of it's heavy manufacturing would not be accepted in the european union.

and that's why they founded in, in the russian market demand give you the last 50 seconds. go ahead. oh, well, let me point out. the question is often criticized and russia, when he told us, you know, was that nato command in europe in 2001 or just promised to support him and no rush and saw that. and of course, there was a lot of critique because she was in consequential and sometimes indeed cruel. but it doesn't mean that who can feed him in the way the fate of suggest, again called from the article tree. and as they would like to state street, it would be a lot and put their price on his credit threads on matters. the us shot the pre, the man us or war. and what is it? it was not a matter. i don't know if you are choking or laughing or having a choking laugh. ok. but here are countries that are saying we should support

international law, a specific norms and values and basically are calling from cold blooded murder. that's what we get. this is all i do want you to be driven by a gentleman will run out of time. i want to thank my guest in budapest and here in moscow. i don't want to think our viewers are watching us here at ortiz the next time. remember the oh, i use driven adrian shaped bankers. those in me,

i think we dare to ask me ah, in the headlines for this monday, enemy and neighbors are report revealed. denmark spied on germany's angle america as well as other e. u. heads of state. this being done for us intelligence, israel longstanding prime minister benjamin netanyahu may finally be on his way out off to the opposition claims. it has enough votes to drive him from office to travel to the central african republic, to shed light on one of the world's worst and daily reported civil war. we've a special report for you as russia helps the government that a counter bombed militant there is a mine ahead that sounded, oh my god, serial might be going to destroy the.