welcome to the alexandria show from westminster, where we continue to discuss the political stage of the 4 u. k. nations on look at the implications of the radically different electric trends of all 4 of the case component nations. last week, just as dominant coming up to the government's handling of the pandemic. we asked botanist folks why detroit is still being supreme and english. they can recover rebel scottish nationalist. i'm just going to mcneil, m p. use his 1st, westminster during the day to call for a more vigorous pursuit on the constitutional question. following the essence to success in scotland. today, we turned to wales and northern ireland in principality labor score to surprise victory. the local elections with only modern progress from quite company. we ask lord weekly of canada, more successful plight leader in history. why in support for well to independence was sort afflicted at the poll. meanwhile, turbulence continues in northern ireland politics with both major union as parties

under new leadership and continuing on with widely predicted. ask, let's call and border uncertainty continues. we question jim shannon m p for stanford, where the trust instability can be restored to the problem. but 1st, your 2 messages and emails in response to i show last week i says it was made very clear that a vote for s and p was abort print independence referendum. ruby says, independence has to be kept french and center for scotland recovery. patricia says the never later school, what can we do against all dirty tricks? they continue to throw us. theresa says, should be another great at the thought, i guess as a to pitch it. while i don't care so much for clear folks. she's got an interesting take on mattress. and finally, elizabeth says, i wish angus branded with leader over the s n p. now over to alex that with vaguely, i don't shannon well continue. luke lee developed and political pops of

the, the 4 countries of the united kingdom i'm joined today by, but jim shannon, the n p for stanford and by bob live canada and the former leader of play company. that's what i can talk to you 1st in the run up to the last month selections, things looks fair for play. come re rising support for welsh and dependence, but it wasn't delivered at the ballot most quite disappointing result. well, yes, if indeed you can judge the question of independence just on the basis of this ballot. the 1st minister of wales, my bank couldn't quite cleverly to himself in a position that didn't totally distance himself from independence. making the point that x gotten to it to become independent and the welsh labor party would clearly have to revisit that question. and therefore, he did not appear to be empty. it did everything he could understandably, to play, to his own strengths, which was in this circumstance. the way in which is government had handled the go

with issue. and as much as like emory and adam price, the leader like i'm retired to make this independence. the main theme would quite clearly, for most people, it was the dominating factor, and it was on that basis. they voted jim shatteau, some considerable instability in the, in the province following the brake, set stability in the states, but also instability in the democratic union as part of the leadership election and not a result. things not resolved as yet for the new leader was happening in the, in the democratic unionist party. jim shannon. well, we had an election for leader, an election for death, a leader. as you read a say they, the marginal difference was, was only to you, but they not the and being a democrat and believing in the democratic process isis. i set up thinking in

a set up a session. so it wouldn't be a secret that i was a preference for for jeffrey donaldson. but at the same time, i also expressed my confidence in admin. it says the new leader, not decision has been me and i accept that. i accept the fact that we have the new deputy leader and then paula bradley as well. so we get a few changes so that drove her also. i as, as take stepped up decision except the democratic process and to move forward together. well, let's look at some of it. deeper issues at play here. the european issue, 1st and foremost, definitely mir bucks and accusing my draper, the welsh labor fuss, banished and stealing plights close. as the case, also the welsh labor having a rethink about that attitude to the national question, following breaks or welsh labor, still friendly afterwards. for example, the london counterpart saw undoubtedly the fact that we've had to leave the

european union following the practice and vote. and sadly in wales, of course there was a majority all leaving the european union. i think many of those now to address it certainly do the fishermen and others who are very would in the campaign. and as a result of that, the reality coming home, it makes it easier for labor to maintain that position in wales, that they were the pro european party. again, muzzling into place territory that apply to independence in europe and been our objective and labor bodies appears to be independence. curious, and you are friendly. and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. jump shannon nearly done and will put accuse the commission of treating not as a plaything this week, but surely it wasn't the unit being commission who sold the non island level. it

was bought us johnson when he a blatantly took up the commitment given the d. u p. well i think we don't take whatsoever that i can that was given to say to you and i but this discussion before i perhaps wasn't just as confident and the word to the a dentist kid on his can up to the union. i think because the, the big thing for boris was to get a brackson gone on. we unfortunately were the meeting so much about the way to perhaps so from our point of view, we are where we are today. the ordinary protocol is a disaster. it is not working. my party leader, ebony, godfrey purity, the only marshall there in the past. i thought he was, i clear the discussions with hospice north cross trends. lord process are ready said and has words does. is it a, you are an obstacle on

a bar to any future data to make the non protocol either way with it or make it more acceptable? and that's the way to parents are change it. and a way to that it doesn't impact upon the economy on the business between you came in the north 9th and vice versa. so, so we have clear issues and the career issues are we believe and i've said the sale are concerned with them pays a bit of break, clear to the minister of state, and also the southern stamp, i think for us, johnson has a par with anyone said majority to bring in an article 16 do away was say they don't 9 protocol and move forward. now, i think is a par. i think he's got, he can do that a p a p. so wish to do it has been some indications from concert of m pays on his side of the party and probably those and make and the right to i know the party that they would support not the line of action. i certainly wouldn't,

i would like to see that happening. i think the main thing is that it's quite clear that the protocol is working. there's not a day goes by on. almost a lot of the day goes by, but i don't have a business or an they told no complains about operator north, no protocol and getting goods from the u. k. milan to work here and vice versa. and it just doesn't work. the economy has been affected by jobs are, are there's a question mark over some jobs. there's a cost factor in that as well. even the construction business and the last 3 to 4 weeks have been to get the problems that they are having with getting stated would on prostate piping. i mean these things are all believable and that's really unacceptable for the government to let this on. certainly people going, i remember jim shot him the, the prime minister, the saying, and one of his favorite phrases that know, and i would wind up with the best of both worlds, that you'd have preferential access to the european market. you'd have access to the, the u. k market, once these teething troubles at all,

or do you think that might be ends up? well, i said a long tension. my children were, you'll know next, you know, but that teething problems for my children didn't last as long as not, not protocol. and the problems are very, very real for us. 6 months into this process or 5 months and come into flexible, it's night and do this process. they norton a protocol is just as difficult today as it was and the 1st of january. and for instance, why is it on the 31st of december of 2020, nothing. for one example, horticulture and goods. the soil was o. k. on the 1st of january of not my goodness worked out, want to become never made all the older problems that are ongoing as well. this is, this is somebody playing, i think my, my party, they are referred kid that you see is a plaything. i think many of us feel that the, they're under united kingdom leaving the e u that they're taking it right on. awesome, northern ireland and yeah,

we see that very, very real when we think of time, the pores, johnson a prime minister, stepan and lord process and make sure that the, that, that we do the article 16 do away with it or move forward. what's happening just cannot continue any longer. that's like less than a warning for whales and what's happening in non island. and the samson. i'm quite sure that many welsh politicians and ply than the labor party would like that the sort of access to the, the single market the non island was, was promised. but it seems that this protocol has been a bit of a disaster. wouldn't a welsh protocol end up just as bad as well, and clearly on the details and we're not in the same circumstances, northern island by a 1000 miles. it strikes me that the problems know, facing northern island, implicit in the type of deal that we've got. the question is, what sort of all turns can be brought forward?

and it strikes me that in terms of no of an island, no, no to stay in the united kingdom and the republic is to stay in the european union . then there must be some greater free trade deal. then we must move on the problem, trying to wind the clock back to the a prerequisite days and looked at some new future relationship between these islands with each other and with the european union. looking to the says or model that know is had it cetera. and then i understand that for those who are hard recipe is that may not be acceptable because we'd have to accept certain rules of the european union. but that, of course, is what no other nile is having to do now in order to have the access to the market . and the relationship between northern ireland, the rest of the united kingdom would be that much easier if the rest of the united kingdom also had that free trade agreement. and if that were to develop, it didn't mean that the movement towards independence in scotland. and at some stage, following that of whales as well wouldn't be in

a context that doesn't need the rebuilding of barriers along office decor. adrian's will. ready i mean, we don't want to move back in that way. what we want is an independence take our own decisions for ourselves and to cooperate with our neighbors on those matches comment. and that must be the sort of model that is relevant to northern ireland. but i would also suggest relevant to the republic as well. and there is an opportunity here as well as a difficulty and a need some people, a vision in northern ireland, wales, and scotland, as well as england to put that forward and fight for it. join us after the big when alex continues his discussions with jim shannon and backward wiggly, we'll see that the segregated all along my social class. most people don't want to poverty by 1st name

. if you're born in to a 4 family, you're born into a minority family. if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life, chances people die on average. 15 years old, you born into generational poverty. it's a, it's a fight every day to meet your needs and the needs of your family. me the the the welcome back to the show where alex continues to discussions with them. shannon m p . i logged after wiggly gum shannon with no elections and violence, which is perhaps unfortunate for the incumbent because elsewhere of these islands,

the incumbent governments seem to be the war the but nonetheless, the big issues in terms of the economy. still to come the unwinding of follow the, the economy having to be taken off life support. as a parliamentarian, you must be identifying issues already coming up in your constituency, where they're going to be huge, social and economic pressure across these islands. where do you see the cooperation between the political parties and getting the economy back on its feet? a fellow scheme was incredibly helpful. i do believe that a government or hops administration in the ordinary assembly administration at the picture and probably what the help of the counselor need to ensure that as we move, i can say knock down and move forward that they may be accessed a fertile for some businesses can still be there and a smaller way it we may not need it, but at the same time we're going to prepare for for businesses and one of the

things that has come up with my consistency. and i submit this question to the counselor. just the week before, last actually not with those who have taken a bank loan. you know, the way the government said that if you needed bank loans and they come up with when to help and assessed. but some of the, the kids mean that they're just a wee bit concerned, but the repayment of some of those bank loans, they get sums of money will not be achievable for small businesses who are just getting back to normal. so i have asked for some flexibility to be enough system to enable those businesses to be able to money. it's a re payments and a longer period for instance, but last few days, some and might meet returning your knowledge here. lots of people are both businesses open again, people shopping and spending money, even the consumer local to construction. but as i mentioned earlier on, but they that doesn't go, does their hubble with some of the supplies but, but then the day they're busy and i think there is a,

we are going to be left off on a post after after, at all. and that's helping now, people are willing to spend. i think i read somewhere, i'm not sure how i heard it was that people had some, i had an average of which $7000.00 per month that they hadn't spent the last year. so the money to spend, i think gosh, good for the shops. i think it's good for the economy, but we want to make sure that it's long term that there's a vision to that it goes beyond december of this year and was in spring up next year. that's what we need to do at the economy as, as optionally critical. they retain the jobs and moving forward that has been no more ident parliamentarians yourself over the last generation and identifying the social and economic challenges and mobilizing cross path, the parliamentary opinion on the where do you see the, the big challenges coming and the big opportunities for opposition parliamentarians like yourself to to make a mock to help your people. well, it's been fascinating,

alex in the house of lords over the last couple of years and particularly since the direction deal went through the way in which there's been some cross party movement of peers who have links with wales and the labor party cross benches. typically, the liberal democrats, there aren't many tories, but the appears to be coming together in appreciation of the challenges that facing the welsh governor will the welsh economy in general, we haven't yet been tackled. for example, these come under to us. we seems one is with regards to agriculture and the way in which the independent agricultural policy of the welsh governments can be pursued within a strait jacket that seems to be run from london. and i know that the very strong tensions felt indeed, by the end, if you, for example, in northern iowa as well as scotland and wales with regard to the australian deal. it's coming up. that's one instance. there's a question of state aid,

the extent to which the house government can help an industry such as a steel industry currently going through the difficulties and the danger that we won't have the lot to do that we had to use funds from the european i'm source as they were in the past, the new funding arranged by the body of johnson government, you're going to be manipulated from london and not in the hands of the wealth government. and then you have the spin up of wrecks is itself being held in the last few days, even in the tourist economy in wales where some of that tourist hotspots the now opening up most after a very difficult period of finding it next to impossible to get labor because they depended so much on people coming from the european union to work for a season in the welsh economy. the not coming know that sitting not only tourism is also hitting some of the care sector. and these issues are going to come home to

roost. it will be difficult sometimes to differentiate between the effect of rex it and the effect of coven. but the 2 coming together is most certainly going to be a major factor that people across party lines will be pressing in westminster. jim shannon and terms of the issues that you've campaigned on and people often have the impression that non alice unionism has been very, very closely aligned with the conservative party. but many of the issues you have campaigned on a found you campaigning with the labor party in the s m p and plan company. do you see that continuing as your dental social and economic justice has to be tackled my politics alex, left of center, a new secret would be where i would lie. i have a social call, a very deep social conscience. i, for many occasions will put on almost my garlic cousins in scotland and wheels on social, on bread and butter issues. i mean, those are things that in nice me with them, you know,

with the neighbor party as well. well, i would probably feel more at peace and more unlike what's the conservative party, but i'm not, not totally a conservative secret. i make they want to belong to you. my and my m p group who probably had the same opinion on my part. he left me how about freedom my human rights issues are, are something that i speak to but all the time and chair of the a p p g and freedom religious belief i believe in speaking for those with questions for those with older free and those with no fear, and i regular me on behalf of, of ethnic groups or religious groups across a word where i see and justice while my, my hockey x. and i want to stand off for those people. they will do that and continue to do not so. so will then move forward, and i'm also the party spokesperson when you are a small party to the way alex, as you you, you never had not position but, and my case a small party, we have many portfolios will at minus the w pay. so department of walks and

pensions so so i do online with the requests of your, of the scotts nuts part in plate comrey and the liberal party in relation to the universal credit and on the retention of the pine are actually still there during the corporate lockdown so these are issues and i see people every day are struggling. and for me that's what i call the i'm, i've been privileged to be the member of parliament. my job is to speak up for those who have no voice or those who home. no one to speak for them. unable to i will. elaine cases, i don't say d. c l p in north 9th along say please call me lord lord, when it was referred to along say your former party, i'll say it's called snobs, and you're famous. they're speaking and unison. and these motors say, well, i remember jim i, i led a small party before i learned a large one so i can actually play questions huge. i'm shannon,

evan. bruce, does he know, become fuss minister audit or as effect of some other arrangement that's not altogether clear from us? observing the scene was going to happen, installment. that's what we want to know from you. shannon. evan does not want to be the 1st minister. there is some indication of others. he may be in line for the american story was the original person for the name, the 1st minister. i understand the marvin doesn't want to differ because a partial hospital. so it looks like it made the poll given older people have been given positions to day, but the ministry positions have not been felt. evan will repeat his position here and minister, where he does something past the work, and i work alongside him and many things. so he will not be the 1st minister, he will be the leader of the party was worth the or a minister. so i'm afraid alex,

you have to probably we have for a few to his for those minister ill positions to be disclosed. i'm not, not circle of friends or the of the executive. we make these decisions. but the state, the different that the leader of the party will not be the 1st minister, not in this case on the way. but there's no chance of your being some of the costs the i have to take office unexpectedly that jump up. so not looking not i don't expect an urgent phone call from happened to bring to bring me home. i believe my rule at west ministers and import rule to play. i worked in this foundation for 12 years and a local country for 26 years before that. but but i, i think my role and i believe honestly my role christian and those i believe the lord wants me to be is it west? no, sure. so i do my best there and i'm sure haven't told me it's very happy for me to be there. by the way, so i don't expect a phone call from them, but all wiggly,

i mean, you have the most successful leader of pike told me it was history pulling us. i have a member upstart s i p. lead the way back in 1909. the past how divest said that in the sense that the, the s a b a one for the elections on the try to the scottish parliament applied. haven't managed to make the, the big breakthrough again, that you expect that realistically to change or do you think that there's more toilet the cool face before you get to that mission? i have no doubt that is going to change. the question is, in what direction will it change? but things may not happen in unison. in scotland and wales, one suspects that the british empire and then the united kingdom is unraveling in the order and brought together the republic when 1st of all in

ireland. now scotland is knocking on the door for independence and wales, it should, of course, was united and incorporated by westminster. back in 1536, maybe the last in the queue. coming out of that 1st tab of office vasa butler. it's something that is going to happen in wales. it is a different picture. and it's not only that, some people in the live about the labor members standing, the recent election, who pro independence, liberal democrats, who have been making sympathetic noises to independence. and what all. busy this comes back to is what does independence meet, and that's what's going to be spelled out, spelled out more clearly. and it's gotten no doubt in order to win a referendum. but also in wales. i suspect that this is relevant to northern ireland. the type of relationship that we're working towards may not be the bogey that some people in northern ireland for you. it may be opening

a door to new relationship between the nations of these islands that will impact i am a sensible and a restful place for all denied. and for the the rest of ireland. ringback working together within these islands, i'm also working together with the white world that wiggly john shannon whenever the future of the united kingdom of wales and nod i own before that they'll be strong. voices like yours. again for the best benefits of the people. thank you. so much for joining me and alex simon too much alex you should have as our independently minded guess appointed. i feel like just being extremely forgiving and awards and pass marks to the for you kid ministrations on the pods epic. no sooner had they said it, than expected of christmas pass in the form of dominant cummings, or right or to comments can make you to disrupt the prime minister's wedding plot. still, despite the batching at the hands of his stall, advisor,

the tories time on to the opinion police over the opposition labor party. this is quite a static thing for a government party undergoing difficult crisis. i guess about pointed to the per forces at work, which will be the stuff of nightmares of the present ruling parties in each of the administration. the 20 parts in england may have more to fear from them fail then for the official opposition. bought an s folks observed to 40 parties, not one. and the destructive class may be coming labor and we'll have to fight, feel bad. they pulled that off partial, at least by themselves, starting the cooling of welsh nationalism. they may not have yet let the genie to the bottle, but the dragon could be warming up the northern irish union. esther gail again syndic, which is the good opinion, but it was the one time i bought a johnson who sold them, died in the river one borders. i'm finally in scotland. the s and p have one know for selection on the spring, but i did really any closer to securing another referendum under declared aim of

independence. it would be difficult for us in any more favorable circumstances than the current prevailing winds. and so, if not nice, benway might just not talk will be the field in the coming. i'm still for now from alex myself and all of the show and this, when do they stay safe? and we hope to see you again next week. ah, me, ah, i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except when the shorter,

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