meanwhile, turbulence continues in northern island politics with both major union as parties under new leadership and continuing on base, widely predicted. ask, let's go and border uncertainty continue. the question, jim shannon m p for stanford, where the trust instability can be restored to the problem. for the 1st 2 messages and emails in response to i show last week i'm says it was made very clear independence has to be kept in p was abort, print independence referendum. ruby says, independence has to be kept front and center for scotland recovery. patricia says those nevertheless a school. what can we do against all the dirty tricks that continue to throw us? theresa says should be another great episode. i'm going to pitch it. and while i don't care so much for clear folks, she's got an interesting take on mattress. and finally, elizabeth said, i wish angus painted with liter over the s n p. now over to alex, that would wiggly, i don't shannon well continue. luke lee developed and political pops of

the 4 countries of the united kingdom i'm joined today by but jim shannon, the m p for stanford and by bob cliff came out and the former leader of ply company . that's what i can tell you 1st in the run up to the last month selections, things looks fair for play. come re rising support for welsh and dependence, but it wasn't delivered the the ballot most quite disappointing result. well, yes, if indeed you can judge the question of independence just on the basis of this ballot. the 1st minister of wales, my break couldn't quite cleverly to himself in a position that didn't totally distance himself from independence. making the point that, excuse him to it, to become independent and the welsh labor party would clearly have to revisit that question. and therefore, he did not appear to be but did everything he could understandably play to his own strengths, which was in this circumstance,

the way in which is government had handled the go with issue. and as much as like emory and adam price, the leader like i'm retired to make this independence, the main theme would quite clearly for most people, it was the dominating factor, and it was on that basis. they voted jim shatteau, some considerable instability in the, in the province following the brakes and stability in the states, but also instability in the democratic union as part of the leadership election and not a result. things not resolved as yet for the new leader was happening in the, in the democratic unionist party. jim shannon. well, we had an election for leader, an election for deaf, a leader. as you read a say they, the marginal difference was, was only to you, but they not being a democrat and believing in the democratic process isis. i set up thinking in

a set up a session. so it wouldn't be a secret that i was a preference for for jeffrey dollars. but at the same time i also expressed my confidence in admin puts as a new leader, not decision has been me. and i accept that i accept the fact that we have the new deputy director and, and paula probably as well. so we get a few changes. so the job for us as, as take stepped up decision except that democratic process and to move forward together. let's look at some of it deeper issues at play here. at the european issue, 1st and foremost. definitely mir version accusing my draper, the welsh labor fuss, banished and stealing plights. closed the case. also the welsh labor having a rethink about that attitude to the national question. following breaks or welsh labor, still friendly after ones you learn, for example, the london counterpart. so on that,

undoubtedly the fact that we've had to leave the european union following the facts and votes and sadly in wales. of course, there was a majority all leaving the european union. i think many of those know to address it certainly do, and the fishermen and others who are very would in the campaign. and as a result of that, the reality coming home, it makes it easier for labor to maintain that position in wales, that they were the pro european party. again, muzzling into plays territory independence in europe had been our objective and labor, but he appears to be independence. curious and euro friendly. and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. jump shot and nearly done and then put accuse the commission of treating not as a plaything this week,

but surely it was the european commission who sold the non island down the number that was bought us johnson. when he, a blatantly took up the commitment given the d u p. well, i think there's no tape whatsoever that i can that was given to say alex and you and i. but this discussion before, i perhaps wasn't just as confident and the words are the a dedicated and his can up to the union. i think because they, the big thing for boris was they get up fraction still don't on we unfortunately were the meeting so much about the way to perhaps so from our point of view, we are where we are today. the protocol is a disaster. it is not working. my party leader, ebony, godfrey, the only marshall there in the past. i thought he was i clear the discussions with hospice north cross for instance. lord process are ready, sad, and has words. does it is that you are an obstacle on

a bar to any future data to make the non protocol either do away with it or make it more acceptable. and that's a way to parents are change it. and a way to that it doesn't impact upon the economy on the business between you came in on a north 9th and vice versa. so, so we have clear issues and the career issues are we believe and i've said to sailor, consider them pace. i've been very clear to the minister of state and also the southern stamp. i think orest johnson has a par with any one st majority to bring in an article 16 do away was say they don't 9 protocol and move forward. now, i think he's a par, i think he's got, he could do that a p. p. so wish to do it has been some indications from sort of em pays on his side of the party and probably those and make and their right to. i know the party that they would support not the are line of action. i certainly wouldn't. i would like

to see that happening. i think the main thing is that it's quite clear that the protocol is working. there's not a day goes by all, it's almost a lot of the day goes by, but i don't have a business or an eventually that complains about operator north now protocol and getting goods from the u. k. milan, we're to here and vice versa. and it just doesn't work. the economy has been affected by jobs are, are there's a question mark over some jobs. there's a cost factor in that as well, even the construction business. but all 3 to 4 weeks have been to get the problems with their hobby, with getting stated would on prostate piping. i mean these things are all believable and that's really unacceptable for the government to let this on. certainly people going, i remember jim shot him the, the prime minister, the saying, and one of his favorite phrases that know, and i would wind up with the best of both worlds, that you'd have preferential access to the european market. you'd have access to

the, the u. k market when one sees teething troubles or ola. do you think that might be ends up? well, i said a long tension. my children were, you'll know next, you know, but that teething problems for my children didn't last as long as the north not protocol. and the problems are very, very real for us. 6 months into this process or 5 months and come into flexible, it's night and do this process. they northern i protocol is just as difficult today as it was and the 1st of january. and for instance, why isn't on the 31st of december of 2020, that the, for one example horticulture of goods. the soil was o k. on the 1st of january, it's not my goodness work. i want to become never made all the other problems that are ongoing as well. this is, this is somebody playing. i think my, my part of the are referred kid that you see is a plaything. i think many of us feel that they're under united kingdom leaving the

e u that they're taking it right on often northern aren't on. yeah, we see very, very real. and we think us time, the pores, johnson, they prime minister, stepan and back lord process and make sure that the, that we do the article 16 do away with our move forward. was helping just cannot continue any longer. that's like less than a warning for whales and what's happening in non island. and the samson, i'm quite sure that many welsh politicians and clyde and the labor party would like the sort of access to the the single market. the non island was, was promised, but it seems that this protocol is been a bit of a disaster. wouldn't a welsh protocol end up just as bad as well. and clearly on the details and we're not in the same circumstances, northern island by a 1000 miles. it strikes me that the problems know, facing northern island, implicit in the type of deal that we've got. the question is what sort of all turns

can be brought forward? and it strikes me that in terms of northern ireland, no, no, to stay in the united kingdom and the republic is to stay in the european union, then there must be some greater free trade deal. then we must move on the problem, trying to wind the clock back to the a pre record days and looked at some new future relationship between these islands with each other and with the european union. looking to the says or model that know is had a cetera. and then i understand that for those who are hard recipe is that may not be acceptable because we'd have to accept certain rules of the european union. but that, of course, is what the nile is having to do now in order to have the access to the market. and the relationship between northern ireland, the rest of the united kingdom would be that much easier if the rest of the united kingdom also had that free trade agreement. and if that were to develop didn't mean that the movement towards independence in scotland. and at some stage,

following that of whales as well, wouldn't be in a context that doesn't need the rebuilding of barriers along often decor. adrian's will. ready i mean, we don't want to move back in that way. what we want is an independence, big our own decisions for ourselves and to cooperate with our neighbors on those matches comment. and that must be the sort of model that is relevant to northern ireland. but i would also suggest relevant to the republic as well. and there is an opportunity here, as well as a difficulty and a need, some people, a vision in northern ireland, wales, and scotland, as well as england to put that forward and fight for join us after the big when alex continues in discussions with jim shannon and bafford wiggly, we'll see then oh, i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human

beings, except when the shorter the conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. the point obviously is to great truck rather than fear take on various jobs with the artificial intelligence real summoning the theme in a robot must protect its own existence with exist kicking off summer solutions. every summer we talk about the solution and instead of dwelling on the problems, you know we've got answers, we've got pollution. welcome

back to the show where alex continues as discussions with jim shannon m p and lord stafford wiggly gum shannon with no elections and violence, which is perhaps unfortunate for the incumbent because elsewhere of these islands, the incumbent government seemed to be the want. the but nonetheless, the big issues in terms of the economy still to come the unwinding of follow the, the economy having to be taken off life support. as a parliamentarian, you must be identifying issues already coming up in your constituency where they're going to be huge, social and economic pressure across these islands. when do you see the cooperation between the political parties and getting the economy back on its feet? a fellow scheme was incredibly helpful. i do believe that a government perhaps administration in the ordinary assembly administrator of the picture and probably with the help of the counselor need to ensure that as we move, i got locked down and move forward that they may be accessed

a fertile for some businesses can still be there and a smaller way it we may not need it, but at the same time we're going to prepare for for businesses. one of the things that has come up with my consistency and i submit this question to the counselor just the week before last, actually not with those who have taken a bank loan. you know, the way the government set it there. if you needed bank loans and they come up with when to help and assess. but some of the, the kids mean that they're just a wee bit concerned, but the repayment of some of those bank loans, they get sums of money will not be achievable for small businesses who are just getting back to normal. so i have asked for some flexibility to be enough system to enable those businesses to be able take money as a re, payments and a longer period for instance. but last few days, um and might need to try to get an ard share. lots of people about businesses over

again, people shopping and spending money, even the local to construction. but as i mentioned earlier on with a double bizarre hovel with some of the supplies. but then the day they're busy and i think there is a, we are going to be left off and a post after after at all. and that's helping people are willing to spend. i think i read somewhere, i'm not sure how i heard it was that people had some. i had an hour to big $7000.00 per month that they hadn't spent the last year. so the money to spam, i think it's good for the shops. i think it's good for the economy, but we want to make sure that it's long term that there is a vision to it. that it goes beyond december of this year and was in spring up next year. that's what we need to do at the economy as, as optional, the critical, a return the jobs and moving forward. that has been no more parliamentary and yourself for the last generation and identifying the social and economic challenges and mobilizing cross path,

the parliamentary opinion on the whether you see the the big challenge is coming and the big opportunity is for opposition. parliamentarians like yourself to, to make a mock to help your people. well, it's been fascinating in the house of lords over the last couple of years. and particularly since the direction deal went through the way in which there's been some cross party movement of peers who have links with the whales and the labor party cross benches. they claim the liberal democrats. there aren't many tories, but the appears to be coming together in appreciation of the challenges that facing the welsh governor will the welsh economy in general, which haven't yet been tackled. for example, these come under 2 or 3 teams. one is with regards to agriculture and the way in which the independent cultural policy of the welsh governments can be pursued within a strait jacket that seems to be run from london. and i know that the very strong

tensions felt indeed, by the end, if you, for example, northern aisle as well as scotland and wales with regard to the australian deal. it's coming up. that's one instance. there's a question of state aid, the extent to which the wealth government can help and industry, such as a steel industry currently going through the difficulties and the danger that we won't have the lot to do that we had to use funds from the european i'm source as they were in the past, the new funding arranged by the body johnson government, you're going to be manipulated from london and not in the hands of the well us government. and then you have the, the spin up wrecks is itself being held in the last few days, even in the tourist economy in wales where some of the tourist hotspots now opening up, mercifully after a very difficult period of finding it next to impossible to get labor because they depended so much on people coming from the european union to work for

a season in the welsh economy. the not coming know that sitting not only tourism is also hitting some of the care sector and these issues are going to come home to roost. it will be difficult sometimes to differentiate between the effect of rex it and the effect of coven. but the 2 coming together is most certainly going to be a major factor that people across party lines will be pressing in westminster just shannon and terms of the issues that you've campaigned on. and people often have the impression that non hours unionism has been very, very closely aligned with the conservative party. but many of the issues you campaigned on the phone, you campaigning with the labor party and the s m p and plan company. do you see that continuing, as you had dental, social and economic justice has to be tackled and my politics alex, left of center, a new secret will be where i would lie. i have a social call, a very deep social conscience. i, for many occasions will put on almost my,

my garlic cousins in scotland and wheels on social, on bread and butter issues. i mean, those are things that in nice me with them, you know, with the labor party as well on cultural issues, i suppose. and probably, and sometimes in, for the issues as well, i would probably feel more at peace and more on line. what's the conservative party, but i'm not, natalie. a conservative secret. i make, they want to believe to you my and they my m p group who probably have the same opinion of my party. let me, how about freedom my human rights issues are, are something that i speak to but all the time and chair of the a p p g and freedom. i just belief i believe in speaking with questions for those with older free and those with no fear. and i regular me on behalf of ethnic groups and religious groups across a word where i see and justice while my,

my hockey x. and i want to stand off for those people. i will do that and continue to do not so. so will then move forward. and i'm also the party spokesperson when you're a small party to the way alex was you you, you never had a not position, but, and my case a small party, we have many portfolios will at minus the w pay. so department of walks and pensions so so i do online with the request of your, of the scott's not part in play. come re and the labor party relation to the universal credit and the retention of the 20 pine are actually up there during the covert lockdown. so these are issues and i see people every day are struggling. and for me, that's what i call the i'm, i've been privileged to be the member of parliament. and my job is to speak up for those who have no voice of those who have no one to speak for them. unable to, i will. elaine cases, i don't say d, c l, p, and north 9th along say please call me lord lord,

i was referred to along say your former party, i'll say it's called snobs, and you're famous. they're speaking and unison. and these motors say, well, i remember jim i, i led a small party before i learned a large one. so i could actually question huge. i'm shannon, evan. bruce, does he know, become fuss minister audit or as effect of some other arrangement? it's not altogether clear from us observing the scene was going to happen, installment. that's what we want to know from you. shannon. evan does not want to be the 1st minister. there is some indication of others who may be on line, pick up a mervin story was the original person for the name, the 1st minister. i understand the marvin doesn't want to differ because a partial hospital. so it looks like it made the poll, given all the people have been given positions to day,

but the ministry positions have not been felt ever will repeat and has positioned here in the master where he does something past the work. and i work alongside him and many things, so he will not be the 1st minister. he will be the leader of the party was worth the or a minister. so i'm afraid alex, you have to probably, we have for a few to his for those minister positions to be disclosed. i'm not, not circle of friends or the of the executive. we make these decisions. but the state, the different that the leader of the party will not be the 1st minister, not in this case on the way, but there's no chance of your being some of the costs the i have to take office on expectedly that jump up. so not look, i don't expect an urgent phone call from happened to bring to bring me home. i believe my rule at west ministers and import rule to play. i worked in this foundation for 12 years and a local country for 26 years before that. but, but i,

i think my rules and i believe honestly my role as a christian and those i believe the lord wants me to be is it west? no, sure. so i do my best there and i'm sure i haven't told me it's very heavy for me. to be there, by the way, so i don't expect a phone call from him at all a dozen wigley. i mean, you have the most successful leader of pike told me it was history pulling us. i have a member upstart s i p. lead the way back in 1909. the past how divest said that in the sense that the, the s a b a one for the elections on the try to the scottish parliament applied. haven't managed to make the big breakthrough again, but you expect that realistically to change or do you think that there's more toilet the cool face before you get to that obligation? i have no doubt that is going to change. the question is, in what direction will it change? but things may not happen in unison. in scotland and wales,

one suspects that the british empire and then the united kingdom is unraveling in the order and brought together the republic when 1st of all in ireland. now scotland is knocking on the door for independence and wales, it should, of course, was united and incorporated by westminster. back in 1536, maybe the last in the queue coming out of that 1st tab of office. but it's something that is going to happen in wales. it is a different picture. and it's not only that, some people in the live about the labor members standing, the recent election, who pro independence, liberal democrats have been making sympathetic noises to independence and goes, what all. busy this comes back to is walked, does independence meet, and that's what's going to be spelled out, spelled out more clearly. and it's gotten no doubt in order to win

a referendum. but also in wales. i suspect that this is relevant to northern ireland. the type of relationship that we're working towards may not be the bogey that some people in northern ireland for you. it may be opening a door to new relationship between the nations of these islands that will impact i am a sensible and a restful place with all denied. and for the the rest of ireland. ringback working together within these islands, i'm also working together with why the world does wiggly john shannon, whatever the future see. and i think kingdom of wales and nod, i'll refer they'll be strong, voices like yours are getting for the best benefits of their people. thank you. so much for joining them, alex simon too much, alex, we should have as our independently minded guest appointed, the light fixture being extremely forgiving. an award and pass marks to the for you

kid ministrations on the panoramic. no sooner had they said it, than expected of christmas pass in the form of dominant cummings, or right or to comments can make you to disrupt the prime minister's wedding plot. still, despite the batching at the hands of his small advisor, victorious time on to that opinion, police over the opposition labor party. this is quite a steady thing for a government party undergoing a difficult crisis. i guess about pointed to the per forces at work, which will be the stuff of nightmares of the present ruling parties in each of the administration. the 20 parts in england may have more to fear from them, fails, then from the official opposition bought an as folks observed to 40 parties, not one. and the destructive class may be coming labor and we'll have to fight, feel bad. they pulled that off partial, at least by themselves, starting the cooling of welsh nationalism. they may not have yet let the genie to the bottle, but the dragon could be warming up northern irish union,

esther gail again syndic, which is the good opinion. but it was the one time i bought a johnson who sold them, died in the river one borders. i'm finally in scotland. the s and p have one know for selection on the spend. what i do really any, closer to securing another referendum under declared aim of independence. it would be difficult prefacing any more favorable circumstances than the current prevailing winds. and so, if not nice, benway might just not tall will be the field in the coming. i'm still for now from alex myself and all of the show and it's when do they stay safe? i'm hope to see you again next week. ah, me the me

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table out them out. i gotta get my don't get a get. we'll put it on the show that the lady said, well, i mean he, brittany, home like he's under the lamp, me gotta buy little bye now, bye. and then you guys in my life, what are what are the best? so i have a good day to do is going to start at a federal reserve shirt. so there are, you don't know what it took, refrigeration came to look at the rest the 7 years. so it was kind of the report

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