me, well, kind of say the alexander feel from westminster, where we continue to discuss the political stage of the for u. k. nation and look at the implications of the radically different electric trends of all 4 of the case component nations. last week, just as dominant coming up in the government's handling of the panoramic. we asked botanist folks why detroit he's still been supreme and english. they can recover rebel scottish nationalists. i'm just brandon mcneil mc use his 1st westman sister during the day to call for a more vigorous pursuit of the constitutional question following the s and t success in scotland. today we turned to wales i nor than i was in a principality. labor score to surprise victory in the local elections with only modern progress from white company. we are closed weekly of canada and more successful plight leader in history. why, in support for both to independence was sort afflicted at the poll?

meanwhile, tablets continued in northern ireland politics with both major union as parties under new leadership and continuing on with widely predicted. what's cool and bored or uncertainty, continue the question jim shot an m p for strikes, where the trust instability can be restored to the problem. but for us to think messages and emails in response to i show last week, i'm says it was made very clear that a vote for s and p was abort print independence referendum. ruby says, independence has to be kept french and center for scotland recovery. patricia says they'll never let us go. what can we do against all dirty tricks? they continue to throw us. theresa says should be another great episodes angus as a to pitch it. and while i don't care too much for clear folks, she's got an interesting take on mattress. and finally, elizabeth says, i wish i was friends with leader over the s n p. now over to alex that with vaguely i don't shannon well continue. luke lee developed and political part of

the, the 4 countries of the united kingdom i'm joined today by, but jim shannon, the m p for stanford and by bob live canada and the former leader of ply company. that's what we can talk to you 1st in the run up to the last month selections, things look say for play, come re rising support for welsh and dependence, but it wasn't delivered the the ballot most quite disappointing result. well, yes, if indeed, you can judge the question of independence just on the basis of this ballot. the 1st minister of wales my re couldn't quite cleverly to himself in a position that didn't totally distance himself from independence. making the point that, excuse him to it, to become independent and the welsh labor party would clearly have to revisit that question. and therefore, he did not appear to be but did everything he could understandably play to his own

strengths, which was in this circumstance, the way in which is government had handled the go with issue. and as much as like emory and adam price, the leader like i'm retired to make this independence. the main theme would quite clearly, for most people over, it was the dominating factor, and it was on that basis and they voted jim shatteau, some considerable instability in the, in the province following the break sent stability in the states, but also in stability in the democratic union as part of the leadership election and not a result. things not resolved as yet for the new leader was happening in the, in the democratic unionist party. jim shannon. well, we had an election for leader, an election for deaf, a leader. as you read a say they, the marginal difference was, was only 2, but they not being a democrat and believing in the democratic process isis. i set up thinking in

a set up a session. so it wouldn't be a secret that i was a preference for for jeffrey dollars. but at the same time, i also expressed my confidence in admin pets. as a new leader, not decision has been me and i accept that i accept the fact that we have the new deputy leader and and paula probably as well. so we did a few changes. so the job for us now. i as, as take stepped out position except the democratic process and to move forward together. well, let's look at some of it. deeper issues at play here. the european issue, 1st and foremost, definitely mir version accusing. draper, the well labor, 1st ballast of stealing plies close as the case also the welsh labor having a rethink about that attitude to the national question. following breaks or welsh labor still friendly towards europe. for example, the london counterparts are undoubtedly the fact that we've had to leave the

european union following the practice and vote. and sadly in wales, of course there was a majority all leaving the european union. i think many of those now regretted certainly do the fishermen and others who are very forward in the campaign. and as a result of that, the reality coming home, it makes it easier for labor to maintain that position in wales, that they were the pro european party. again, muzzling into place territory that applied to independence in europe and been our objective and labor bodies appears to be independence, curious and friendly. and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out by the jump shot and nearly done, and been accused of being commission of treating not as a plaything this week,

but she wasn't being commissioned who sold the non island. no, but it was bought us johnson when he a blatantly took up the commitment said given the d u p. well, i think there's no tape whatsoever that i can, that was given to say to you and i, but this discussion before i perhaps wasn't just as confident and the words are the a dedicated and his can up to the union. i think because the, the bank thing for boris was taken up fraction didn't, don't on we unfortunately were the meeting so much about the way to perhaps. so from our point of view, we are where we are today. the north protocol is a disaster. it is not working. my party leader, ebony, godfrey, the only marshall there in the past. i thought he was i clear the discussions with harper north cross for instance. lord process are ready. sad, as has words. does it is that you are an obstacle on

a bar to any future data to make the non protocol either do away with it or make it more acceptable. and that's a way to parents are change it. and a way to do that, it doesn't impact upon the economy on the business between you came in and north 9th and vice versa. so, so we how clear issues and the career issues are we believe and i've had to say all or consider them pace. i've been very clear to the, the minister of state and also the southern stamp. i think for us, johnson has a par with any one c majority to bring in an article 16 do away was say they don't 9 protocol and move forward. now, i think he's a par, i think he's got, he can do that a p. p. so wish to do. there have been some indications from sort of em pays on his side of the party and probably knows and make. and the right to i know the party that they would support not the or line of action. i certainly wouldn't. i would

like to see that happening. i think the main thing is that it's quite clear that the protocol is working. there's not a day goes by all, it's almost a lot of the day goes by, but i don't have a business or an the visual that complains about operator north now protocol and getting goods from the u. k. milan to work here and vice versa. and it just doesn't work. the economy has been affected by jobs are, are there's a question mark over some jobs. there's a cost factor in that as well, even the construction business and the last 3 to 4 weeks have been to get the problems that they're having with getting stated would. and plastic piping, i mean these things are all believable, and that's really unacceptable for the government to let this on. certainly people going, i remember jim shot him the, the prime minister, the saying, and one of his favorite phrases that know, and i would wind up with the best of both worlds, that you'd have preferential access to the european market. you'd have access to

the, the u. k. market when once these teething troubles are over. do you think that might be ends up? well, i said a long tension. my children were, you'll know next, you know, but that teething problems for my children didn't last as long as the north not protocol. and the problems are very, very real for us. 6 months into this process or 5 months and come into flexible, it's night and do this process. they north and i'd protocol as just as difficult today as it was and the 1st of january. and for instance, why is it on the 31st of december of 2020, that the, for one example horticulture of goods. the soil was o k. on the 1st of january of not my goodness work, i want to become never made all the other problems that are ongoing as well. this is, this is somebody playing my, my part of the are referred kid that you see is a plaything. i think many of us feel that there are a united kingdom leaving the

e u that they're taking it right on often northern aren't on. yeah, we see very, very real. and we think us time, the pores, johnson, a prime minister, stepan and back lord process, and make sure that the, that we do the article 16 do away with our move forward is what's happening. just cannot continue any longer. that's like less than a warning for whales and what's happening in non island. and the sam sent, i'm quite sure that many welsh politicians and clyde and the labor party would like the sort of access to the the single market. the non island was, was promised, but it seems that this protocol is been a bit of a disaster. wouldn't. a welsh protocol end up just as bad? well, and clearly on the details and we're not in the same circumstances. northern island by a 1000 miles. it strikes me that the problems know, facing northern island, implicit in the type of deal that we've got. the question is what sort of all turns

can be brought forward? and it strikes me that in terms of no of an island, no, no. to stay in the united kingdom and the republic is to stay in the european union, then there must be some greater free trade deal. then we must move on the problem, trying to wind the clock back to the a prerequisite days and looked at some new future relationship between these islands with each other and with the european union looking to the says or model that know is had, it cetera. and then i understand that for those who are hard recipe is that may not be acceptable because we'd have to accept certain rules of the european union. but that, of course, is what no other nile is having to do now in order to have the access to the market . and the relationship between northern ireland, the rest of the united kingdom would be that much easier if the rest of the united kingdom also had that free trade agreement. and if that were to develop, it would mean that the movement towards independence in scotland and at some stage

following that of whales as well, wouldn't be in a context that doesn't need the rebuilding of barriers along often decor. adrian's will. ready i mean we don't want to move back in that way. ringback what we want is an independence, big our own decisions for ourselves and to cooperate with our neighbors on those matches common and. and that must be the sort a model that is relevant to northern ireland. but i would also suggest relevant to the republic as well. and there is an opportunity here, as well as a difficulty and a need, some people, a vision in northern ireland, wales, and scotland, as well as england to put that forward and fight for joining us after the break. when alex continues his discussions with jim shannon and bafford wiggly, we'll see that the since grown mechanics works so well, people don't like to use the word inconsistent. they like to say, oh it's,

it's amazing and comprehensible, mysterious. when i say it can't be quite right. and this is what direct says, this is what i was reading who's we're segregated all along my social class. most people though, also covered by 1st if you're born in to a 4 family, you're born into a minority family. if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your lives, chances people die or leverage. 15 years old, you born 80 generational poverty is a, it's a fight every day to meet your needs and the needs of your family. me the

the, the welcome back to the show where alex continues his discussions with jim shannon n p, and lord daf wiggly gum shannon will know elections and violence, which was perhaps unfortunate for the incumbent because elsewhere of these islands, the incumbent governments seem to be the war, but nonetheless, the big issues in terms of the economy still to come the unwinding of follow the, the economy having to be taken off life support. as a parliamentarian, you must be identifying issues already coming up in your constituency, where they're going to be huge, social and economic pressure across these islands. where do you see the corporation between a political parties and getting the economy back on its feet? far?

no scheme was incredibly helpful. i do believe that a government perhaps administration, that ordinary assembly administration at the picture and probably with the help of the counselor need to ensure that as we move, i got locked down and move forward that they may be access to fertile for some businesses can still be there and a smaller way it we may not need it, but at the same time i go to prepare for, for businesses. one of the things that has come up with and my constituents in us. i mean this question to the counselor just the week before last actually not with those who have taken a bank loans. you know, the way the government set it there. if you need a bank loans and they come up with when to help and assess some of the buses. but the kid mean that they're just a wee bit concerned that the repayment of some of those bank loans, they get sums of money will not be achievable for small classes as you're just getting back to normal. so i have asked for some flexibility to be enough system to

enable those businesses to be able to money. so re payments and a longer period for instance, the last few days i'm a night meter training at large here. lots of people about businesses over again. people shopping and spending money, even that could be local to construction. but as i mentioned earlier when they go to their home with some of the supplies but, but then the day they're busy and i think there is a, we are definitely going to be left off on a post after after at all. and not helping people who are willing to spend. i think i read somewhere, i'm not sure how i heard it was. people had some, i had an average of a $7000.00 per month that they hadn't spent the last year. so they have money to spend. i think that's good for the shops. i think it's good for the economy, but we want to make sure that it's long term that there's a vision to that it goes beyond december of this year and was in spring up next year. that's what we need to do at the economy as, as optional, the critical,

a retention jobs and moving forward. that would be no more. i didn't parliamentarian yourself for the last generation and identifying the social and economic challenges and mobilizing cross path the parliamentary opinion on the way . where do you see the, the big challenges coming and the big opportunities for opposition. parliamentarians like yourself to, to make a mark to help your people. well, it's been fascinating, alex in the house of lords over the last couple of years and particularly since the direction deal went through the way in which there's been some cross party movement of peers who have links with wales and the labor party cross benches thickly. the liberal democrats, there are many tories, but the appears to be coming together in appreciation of the challenges that facing the welsh governor will the welsh economy in general, which haven't yet been tackled. for example,

these come under 2 or 3 teams. one is with regards to agriculture and the way in which the independent cultural policy of the welsh governments can be pursued within a strait jacket that seems to be run from london. and i know the very strong tensions felt indeed by the and if you, for example, in northern ireland as well as scotland and wales with regard to the australian deal, it's coming up. that's one instance. there's a question of state aid, the extent to which the wealth government can help an industry such as a steel industry currently going through difficulties and the danger that we won't have the lot to do that we had to use funds from the european i'm source as they were in the past, the new funding arranged by the body of johnson government. you're going to be manipulated from london and not in the hands of the well us government. and then you have the, the spin up of rex is itself being held in the last few days,

even in the tourist economy in wales where some of that tourist hotspots. the now opening up, mercifully after a very difficult period of finding it next to impossible to get labor because they depended so much on people coming from the european union to work a season in the welsh economy. the not coming know that sitting not only tourism, is also hitting some of the care sector, and these issues are going to come home to roost. it will be difficult sometimes to differentiate between the effect of rex it and the effect of coven. but in the 2 coming together is most certainly going to be a major factor that people across party lines will be pressing in westminster. some shannon and terms of issues that you've campaigned on. and people often have the impression that non ios unionism has been very, very closely aligned with the conservative party. but many of the issues you've campaigned on the things you campaigning with, the labor party and the s m p and plan company. do you see that continuing,

as you had dental, social and economic justice has to be tackled and my politics alex, left of center, a new secret would be where i would lie. i have a social called a very deep social conscience. i, for many occasions will put all my, my garlic cousins in scotland and meals on social, on bread and butter issues. i'm, i mean, those are things that in nice me with them, you know, with the neighbor party as well, on cultural issues, i suppose. and probably, and sometimes in foreign issues as well, i would probably feel more at peace and more on line once the conservative party. but i'm not natalie. a conservative secret i make they want to belong to you. my and my m p group who probably had the same opinion on my part, he left me hot freedom. my human rights issues are,

are something that i speak to but all the time and chair of the a p p g and freedom. i just belief i believe in speaking for those with questions, for those with all are free and those with no fear. and i thought regular me on behalf of, of ethnic groups, religious groups across a word where i see and justice while my, my hearty x. and i want to stand off for those people. i will do that and continue to do not so. so will let me forward and i'm also the party spokesperson when you are small party to the way alex, as you you, you never had not position but, and my case a small party, we have money portfolios will at minus the w pay. so department of walks and pensions so so i do online with the request of, of your, of the scott's not part in play. comrey and the liberal party in relation to the universal credit and, and the retention of the point are actually over there during the day the corporate knock time. so these are rescues and i see people every day are struggling. and for me that's what i got. i'm, i've been privileged to be the member of parliament,

and my job is to speak up for those who have no voice of those who have no one to speak for them. unable to, i will elaine cases, i don't say d. c l p in north along said, please call me lord lord, what referred it along said your former party. i'll say it's called snobs, and you'll find as they're speaking and unison. and these matters of emma jemma, i lead a small party before i land loved ones. so i can actually select 100 meg. my question to you jim shannon. evan bruce, does he know become fuss minister, or are as you think of some other arrangement that's not altogether clear from us, observing the scene was going to happen, installment. that's what we want to know from huge. i'm shannon. evan does not want to be the 1st minister. there is some indication of others who may be in line for

the i'm mervin. story was the original person talk for the name. the 1st minister. i understand the urban doesn't want to differ because of personal conduct. so it looks like it made people given older people have been given positions to day, but the ministry positions have not been admin, will repeat his position here and minister where he does something past the work and i work alongside him and many things. so he will not be the 1st minister, he will be the leader of the party was worth the or a minister. so i'm afraid alex, you'll have to probably wait for a few to his for those material possessions to be disclosed. i'm not, not circle of friends, are they of the executive? we make these decisions. but yes, it's a state the different that the leader of the party will not be the 1st minister, not in this case on the way, but there's no chance of you being summoned the cost the i have to take office unexpectedly that jump up. so not looking, not,

i don't expect the hava an urgent phone call from happened to bring to bring me home. i believe my rule at westminster is an important rule. i've got to play. i worked in this town because you know, for 12 years and a local country for 26 years before that. but, but i, i think my rules and i believe honestly my rule as a christian and i believe that she wants me to be is it west? no, sure. so i do my best there. i'm sure haven't told me it's very happy for me to be there. by the way, so i don't expect a phone call from him at all wiggly, i mean, you have the most successful leader of pike told me it was history pulling us. i have a member upstart s i p. lead the way back in 1909. the past how divest said that in the sense that the, the s a b a one for the elections on the try to the scottish parliament applied? haven't managed to make the, the big breakthrough again,

do you expect that realistically, to change or do you think that there's more toilet in the cool face before you get to that obligation? i have no doubt that he's going to change the question is in what direction will it change? but things may not happen in unison. in scotland and wales, one suspects that the british empire, and then the united kingdom is unraveling in the order and brought together the republic. when 1st of all in ireland, now scotland is knocking on the door for independence and wales. it should, of course, was united and incorporated by westminster, back in 1536, maybe the last in the queue coming out of that 1st tab of office. but it's something that is going to happen in wales. it is a different picture. and it's not only that some people in the live about the labor members standing, the recent election, who pro independence,

liberal democrats have been making sympathetic noises to independence and goes what all. busy this comes back to is walked, does independence meet, and that's what's going to be spelled out, spelled out more clearly. and it's gotten no doubt in order to win a referendum. but also in wales. i suspect that this is relevant to northern ireland. the type of relationship that we're working towards may not be the bogey that some people in northern ireland for you. it may be opening a door to new relationship between the nations of these islands that will impact i'm a sensible and a restful place for golden island. and for the the rest of island. ringback working together within these islands, i'm also working together with why the world does wiggly john shannon, whatever the future of the united kingdom of wales and nod, i'll refer the they'll be strong, voices like yours are getting for the best benefits of their people. thank you. so

much for joining them, alex simon. to me very much, alex we should have as are independently minded, gets appointed. i feel like just being extremely forgiving and awards and pass marks to the for you kid ministrations on the pacific. no sooner had they said it than expected of christmas past in the form of dominant cummings, or right or to comments can make you to disrupt the prime minister's wedding plot. still, despite the batching at the hands of his i swallowed visor, the tories time on to the opinion police over the opposition labor party. this is quite a steady thing for a government party undergoing difficult crisis. i guess about point to, to see for forces at work which will be the stuff of nightmares of the present ruling parties in each of the administration. the 20 parts in england may have more to fear from them failed than from the official opposition. bordinez folks observed to 20 parties, not one,

and the destructive class may be coming laborer and we'll have to fight, feel bad. they pulled this off partial, at least by themselves, starting the cooling of welsh nationalism. they may not have yet let the genie out of the bottle, but the dragon could be warming up northern irish union. esther gail again. nick, which is the good opinion, but it was the one time i bought a johnson who sold them down the river on board. i'm finally in scotland. the s and p have one there for selection on the spring, but i, they really any closer to security. another referendum under declared aim of independence. it would be difficult, toughest, in any more favorable circumstances than the current prevailing winds. and so, if not nice, then when might just not all will be revealed in the coming year. and so for now, from alex myself and all of the show, and then when do they stay safe? i hope to see you again next week. ah

me soon? ah. when i will show the same wrong when all just don't the rules. yes. to see out the same becomes the after kid and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. the

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