ah, ah, hello and welcome to well, the parts are times always bring out the bass and the worse than people in the governments. i mean, this sounds because this 900 conduct seems to be a pretty accurate reality check on individuals, countries and the world as a whole. rewarding those who practice and punishing those who only preached, but is a potent or carry enough to put politics back into the service of policy rather than the other way around. well, to discuss it, i'm now joined by a former brazilian president loose industrial lulu, this silver mister president is good to see you. thank you very much for talking to us by. oh, my pleasure. excited. well, 1st of all, let me start by asking you about the situation with the koran and virus because this is something that concerns people all around the world. not only in russian, brazil, but in many other countries. i know that you have been very,

very critical of how your own country under your success are dealt with the corona virus pandemic. but putting present bolts in all right. aside and focusing solely on your countrymen on the brazilians. do you think that experience and brazil has had a very difficult experience with corporate 900? do you think that experience has been scaring enough to immunize your people again, demagoguery and populism, or has it on the contrary, made them more susceptible to these brand of politics? by your own problem, i do, but i feel the problem with the list that our president does not respect science or medicine. you know, those who understand the meaning and severity of the covered 19 pandemic, paid for uber. president did not purchase vaccines when he could have done so. he does not believe in immunization as a way of fighting against the corona virus. of course, he does not believe in isolation or and wearing much good. you know,

my deep and i will need some more for my you will feel come back to him. it doesn't matter whether one person dies, 165000 people die, which is the number of deaths. so for me to be 54 because of his disrespect for science, i think our president is almost genocidal trouble because many people died due to lack of guidance from the government or because of its mis guidance. you cannot prevent why the can. we cannot see that for kill my part, you about the force. he does not believe in the need to humanize the government for the pin or not. he did not define protocols because what he did not gather scientist or state and governor's foyce, if he did not make any of the decisions that a democratic government that is concerned with the people would have made president . wil you never means wards and talking about president vol scenario, and i'm sure you have many unflattering terms to, to, to say about him. but again,

my question was about the brazilian people, because if we look at the opinion polls, he's approval rating. still, harvard is around 40 percent. what is it in hand? so many brazilians respond to and do you think brazilians as a hall have changed view of politics as a result of this very, very hard pandemic, then they have to face little q d full to do who are the kids. i would rather not get into this subject of numbers and polls or point because both scenario has been dropping deeply in the posing with the video when they ask respondents whether they approve of the government and many times they present the answers all excellent or good. and regular i went to what was your view when they ask, if the government is excellent, good or terrible, then it's different to get there be no pull that you still have afraid that boil scenario is experienced his worst moment. okay. you had,

he really thought the both on i don't count polls confirm that i would beat him in the election, split my both in the 1st round and in the runoff. any brazilian people behave according to the information they receive was her patient, her many right wing people in brazil doing both scenario gathered around him, members of local militia, groups of people who a fascist, a few stuff. people who are in favor of military dictatorships for people who are nazis, or there's only 2 very bad of many former military officials if you have a pool. but he does have supporters which maybe $25.00 or 35 percent to $65.00 or 75 percent. are still against him to be prepared when that is why i'm sure that democracy will when democracy will win the elections on 2022 even though it's your voice. now speaking about october 2022, you haven't confirmed that decisively, but i think you provided enough him to expect your ron for the presidency

commack toby is 2022 if that comes to pass or even if it doesn't, how do you think the presidential priorities in the presidential challenges of 2022 differ from the challenges of 2003. when you secure with your 1st presidential term permit, you do to kill no. you don't put a box on our family to. i've said that i'm not worried about the 2022 elections problem because we have greater issues to deal with in 2021. not the stuff we have in the going to be seen up to the battery. and we're asking some vaccine for the population because our only guarantee to fight cobit that and bring the country back to normal, want to get his vaccine insecurity, luggage for demanding emergency aid for the population, but i got an unemployment is very high when there are 15000000 people without jobs

and i got a lawyer. we had gotten eliminated famine in brazil in 2012 for the vote and it has returned very strongly in the country. who is the 1st? we must recover that brazilian peoples quality of life and health and well being responsible for we can think about 2022 boys as he sat, brazil has the world stories large as death stall, approaching half a 1000000 dad. and yet in april and brazil's house regulator and visa rejected the use of the russian made vaccines put, needs to be citing inherent risk, serious defects, even though internationally student me is recognized as one of the safest vaccines . do you see any traces of call? it takes in that decision, but ill tell you what it is. i want us to have vaccines from the whole world and

the data from all countries, including sputnik v d. i actually had conversations with kilo demitria from korea who is responsible for the fun which sponsors vaccine production and russia bill for the good public household of our senior wilson. i took for former health ministers to talk with mr. demetrius. besides the former president of the visa and governors of the p t party, what do you do? your total the including one from the northeast region of us unit. they are all fighting to get the vaccine and have orders placed for it for we met these, did we phone with the seems to be a problem with production and distribution with the coffee and also with its acceptance here in brazil, yuki, all of you already any people are suspicious that former president trump recommended, and there is documentary evidence of it and put a president bell scenario does not purchase the russian vaccine of a female or in the same way that he heavily criticized

a chinese vaccine finishing the of if the brazilian president was really committed to the people of his country to the he would have spoken to president putin. paula would have set up a bilateral committee with russian and brazilian experts get our phone. and we would have solved the vaccination problem for a long time ago. when we go over the president does not take any measures, he can, the truth is that he is under pressure. i cannot approve it, but it is largely visible. there is a political impediment to purchase russian vaccines in brazil. as there is also heavy criticism towards a chinese vaccine view, dickie paid the maple leaf. well, mister president, you just connected the rejection of splitting the vaccine in brazil to the conversation between president boss and our president trump. but it was already under president bob in the us department of health and human services in its annual

report in march of 2021 boasted about having used in diplomatic muscle to quote, persuading brazil to reject a russian cove at $900.00 vaccine, which it described as a malign influence detrimental to your safety and security. and, you know, i can on some level understand the logic of the, of the american officials. after all, they are not responsible for the house of the brazilian people. they're trying to do what they define to be in that country of interest. but what about those brazilian officials who are charged with protecting public house? is that okay, is it even the legal in brazil to come to that kind of diplomatic pressure on public health issues? or the pool, but if you leave the brazilian, people certainly want the russian vaccine go. good afternoon. i feel the national congress has passed a decision that if the russian vaccine is approved by other countries,

it can be approved. in brazil, you can put the left. okay, i don't know, but i've you, the brazilian health regulatory agency. and visa kelly has determined many demands and requirements of the russian vaccine. and i played with our russian friends to submit all necessary documentation because people in brazil need vaccines. and we do not have arguments against those who oppose the russian vaccine. if you don't have a few, that yet seems to me, examiner that the vaccine is about it could not make interests. i'm. it is an idea, logical war. but after this, like a u. s. defend the american companies and the u. k. defense, the british companies. what there's all them it could be stopped. the brazil does not need to worry about defending the us. a little different of you need to worry about the health of the big need to worry about the health of it. 230000000 inhabitants very, there's l. your last by the american vaccine view and the russian vaccine as well

as the chinese cuban. any other vaccines with scientifically proven quality care for providing the interests of health of brazilians must be championed by the brazilian government and not the us government f. i will do the over the year by the way, since the early 2nd semester of 2029. we signed the document requesting breach of the vaccine pasent for the state of this in several interviews in the us, germany, france, and u. k. by the maya, but the vaccine should be turned into a public asset. the people all over the world be vaccinated who bought them to be feeling well and that they have been a lot of talk about solidarity and equitable access to vaccines in the very beginning of this been dining. but we all saw that when push came to shove, everybody was out for themselves, and it was the richest countries, the 1st and foremost, contract that vaccines for themselves,

many more vaccines than they actually need it needed. and they continue forwarding, hoarding those vaccines, rather than sharing it with the, with the rest of the world. what does it tell you about the state of little ship in the world today? because those are the very same countries who like to preach about democracy and to preach about solidarity to preach about human lives and human rights, the value of human life. but when it comes to hard times, they seem to be only caring about their own political considerations. or crooks on a pe you i have been following what is going on in the world. if you look at, i believe that we need to bring down this objection at a sovereign countries. political faith because she's been going by you before. good . brazil is not against the u. s. w, the visual, but if you and we want to have partnerships and good relations with them, by 55,

the president, putin also says he wants good relations with us. what boy le phone call them wants to be a handshake. get him going, things he wants to have a good relations with all countries stand up. when i compared to, however, the us once a world in which day the only country to determine everything of haley tiasha last week in an interview resident biden's said that the u. s. wants to be a beacon for the globe. federal fire. all the world doesn't leak, you know, because you had all the well can really want all countries to be fraternal, or you can develop partnerships that you could go through buffy. brazil must be a sovereign country, will be about just like russia, but you've china and that's you and the us. it will be doug. we don't want a shooter. we don't need to to know from the book. you go seem to work for, you know, that's why i've defended a change in global governance and we must change the in security council as we

can't continue with the same security council that was set out in 1948. and i think we, we can't continue to have institutions that were created in bretton woods where institutions like the security council here, the b i m f and the world bank must all be remodeled with the remote people and segments participating. people also eliminate vito rights because no country is superior to any other game. and this is what we'll do to ensure a new global governance. if i got a few that favors the poor countries democratically, if you will be enough and will go further about it. they woke up, come in to fight my father for me or i

the ah . the segregated all along my social class. most people don't know someone in poverty by 1st name. if you're born in 2 of 4 family, you're born into a minority family. if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your lives,

chances people die on average. 15 years older you born into generational poverty, it's a, it's a fight every day to meet your needs and the needs of your family. me me or i you mentioned 15000000 brazilians who are out of jobs right now. and the government, when you were in power, was credited for lifting millions and millions out of power 10, giving them job. do you think the challenge right now as bigger is bigger down? it was back in early 2, thousands and my go to it's a lot bigger now. what periods when i became president in 2003, the press in brazil was bankrupt and that i would have many problems in recovering

the country. over of you know, if we did recover brazil condo bishop, when i left the government, the economy was growing at the 7 percent a year. you brazil did not have any reserves. when i took office in 2003, 3, and we had a $170000000000.00 in international reserves, when i left for now could have the shepherd every bit. i brought up that might be few. now things are more difficult. i mean exactly because of this i will be able to fix brazil view during my administration, i held $64.00 national conferences to define public policies that we would implement in brazil after. because because you know, i v deal with color. but after the conference, his own culture on hell, how would you consider curity on indigenous people for black people before we move, there was 64 conferences. and this is how we created 22000000 jobs in queue and

raised salaries by 64 percent and lifted 36000000 people out of policy and lifted 36000000 people out of poverty. we w van raised 40000000 to the middle class level manager. if no one will fail for this is how we brought water to a barren desert region by to pick them. when you ask the people, if you will read and the people help you by participating in, it is much easier to rule and to do things. carol, and this is how i wants to return with my party and we can bring back the joy and happiness and pride really being brazilian, the favorite of a little while we are on the issue of employment. i know that a long, long time ago when you weren't 12 years old, you started working as a shoe shine boy, and i'm sure as any 1st job, it must have left some sort of mark on you. what was his life mill? well, yes, i did. indeed shine shoes on the figure because you know,

well, we are no body fog meant that i was able to earn enough money to buy a large piece of bread worth a band with them sausage and a soda. like you went there was that was what i had for lunch, but at the very beginning because you had to buy even appreciated, shining shoes, my new car for a long time at home when there was no food bed. i mother spare. yes ma'am, i would say if you wait morrow things will be better washed, mother, and that's how i lead my life. i think that everything can be resolved if we're willing to fight to fix things up. i believe while latisha's lack of causes commitment go my gulliver. since i don't have any personal commitment before i commitment is to try to help brazilian people and working people over to improve their lives. by february, you know, by the brazil cannot go on lagging behind the 21st century. know if we need to

evolve. all we represent has a wonderful happy population tonight and probably love music and dancing love to work the phone and respect about yeah, it will be worth the this is the country i want coming back to carol vote. that's why i work so hard here. nope, i can, i ask you about the brazilian relationship with the united states because he just mentioned that the managed to have very good relationship with all sorts of leaders around the world. and the, and the united states has always had a pretty big influence on the brazilian politics. i know that you previously accused criminal or rather linked criminal proceedings against you with the american influences. wow. if you ever come to power again, if your party comes back to power, how do you in this is resist post true v the united states?

very well. i did not accuse the us problem. we have proof. last table, we have videos and recordings and documents from the us department of justice will be made to be 54 bit w and from prosecutors working to see the brazilian companies to condemn me. little bit. but you know, funding for docs. i don't really show deep down economy to be what was that? that was the increasing president, the brazilian companies in the global market. we have done my own petrograd. tried to fetch, had made the greatest oil discovery and the 21st century could get into some self level. no, no my would like to leave this aside. you tell you that during my administration. ok, the us didn't. you know, metal in our affairs, maybe boys on december, the 10th, 2002. i was invited by president bush. no, i wasn't even in office. the bush was terrified. she wanted to talk terrorism. get in to get into and he needed to invade iraq. you hope yet you by bush invited me to

take brazil to participate in the iraq war by the cuba and i hold president bush on that december. the 10th 2002 bullshit that i did not know saddam hussein me boys can know that iraq was 12000 kilometers away from my country. i could cover those rebuking iraq had never done anything against brazil. glenda. my walk is not against the iraq view, but against hunger in my own country and reform. and by default, the idea of the americans being a lighthouse for the world and not letting anyone else impede economically. milk is wrong. americans must know that we don't want to prevent you both. we want brothers and sisters show you our vote. so that's why i think the role president putin has played in global politics in recent years is very important. career. but you can, we must not be dominated. how is it, you know, i want russia, china, brazil, argentine are in mexico to grow as well as the us. they don't respecting the

freedom and sovereignty of other countries. but if the p t returns to the government will, this is how we will deal with the us. but present all a, do you think the united states is ready to give you that respect for sovereignty? for the right to determine your own faith to determine your own past development. because just as you pointed out in many of your interviews, the americans have long treated latin america as if it were that own backyard. do you think the united states is ready to give you that sort of vision to allow you to practice over in fear? oh no. it's not up to the us. we need to allow us to do them with stock, or we must be ready to exercise our sovereignty. there's preview view and i rules brazil during an extraordinary period as well as with chavez and venezuela. gina

christina kitchenette argentina job michelle buffalo and chilly water. rafael, korea, in ecuador, and evil morales in bolivia, america before it was the best moment for south america. we've strengthened the marcos world and expelled the f t a loc as created u. n. a sore and cell view, and we created the bricks. why organized meetings between south america and africa and south america and the arab countries family get up with fever by we proved that brazil could have sovereignty and international protagonist proven would be and that this could be reached without having to off of the us. and they don't have to ask permission from the us to be the owners of our own backyard. i've it will probably, the problem is that you might brazil has a ruling class, an elite that is subservient. they cannot do anything without asking permission from the us. government, as i told you, with the start, i have a diversity back to the us and for the american people paid the bill of america and

will be billable. they can take care of themselves, medically i will take care of brazil the same way that i want to rush mr. take care of russia and chinese to take care of china can don't do life so that we can be suffering in a multi polar world with peace and come paula. many books and very little weapons. pretty bad with a lot of culture and little violence. talk about it, and my last question to you, i can see a stack of books behind your back and it's very daring knowing that as a kid, you're had to quit school fairly early and you had to help your family. and probably because. 2 of that you missed on reading some of the books that perhaps people off your age had to read. i know that you opened more universities than any other president in brazil despite having no formal education. my last question to you is this by the age of 75. have you had

a chance to read all the book that you had to pass on when you were working kid or no problem? the problem is that i began to work when i was 11 years old. there was no time to read. or for a long time, i felt frustrated because i wanted to go to university and become an economist or forget to quote on my choke that i'd like to be an economist because the economists to know a lot when they're in the opposition. because i went in government no very little. you know, i say this to economists because i'd like to have a better education. that was that i learned a lot my view up indeed. and i became what i am through my struggles in life. up in the week and i part of if i learned a lot at the gates of the plants where i worked, one of them at 5 am midnight at 1 am at noon 2 pm, but you know what? i learned a lot traveling all over brazil by you. do you know, i believe nobody knows my country as well as i do. i think i covered almost 92000

kilometers by train by boat, i car and by bus or so i learned a lot by talk and i listen. it was warrington. i like to ask about things identical . know i can and i hope to continue to read everything. i didn't have a chance to read that in my early days. well, present always been great. pleasure, great on our talking to you. thank you very much, very much for your time and best of luck with your future endeavors and travels. i hope they bring you to the place where you want to be pretty good. thank you center and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on was apart from me in the me

the join me every thursday. i'm alex salmon show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then me so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy plantation, let it be an arms race is on often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful at the very critical time. time to sit down and talk i think i'm a little weekend and obviously wanted to know min johnny doug did

not because i think the the up in the kitchen table out them out. i got a good motto will put it on the shoulder meeting . be brittany lackey, then this is the last me god to bye, bye, bye. now, bye. and then because i love what

i see europe at least is the latest technology and a bid to render. it's called is impenetrable. to migrants as a block, southern states demand tougher action amid a spike in new coming elsewhere. this is big news. world business leaders gather in the russian cities in petersburg this week for the 1st face to face global financial event of the year case because included, let him have posted, among other things. and that's the plans that developer, vaccines tourism industry. he travels to the central african republic with a special report for you where russian military advisors helping the government bring the country's brutal civil war to an end in mind ahead that sounded serial.