the, we're segregated all along my social class. most people don't know someone in poverty by 1st name. if you're born in to a, for family, you're born into a minority family. if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your lives, chances people die or leverage. 15 years old, you born a generational poverty is a, it's a fight every day to meet your needs and the needs of your family. mm

mm. mm i hello and welcome to wells far. it's hard times always bring out the bass and the worst and people in that governments. and then this sounds because this 900 conduct seems to be pretty accurate. reality check on individual countries and the world as a whole, rewarding those who practice and punishing those who only preach, but is a potent or care way enough to put politics back into the service of policy rather than the other way around. well, to discuss it, i'm now joined by a former brazilian president who's in nashville live, the silver mister president is good to see you. thank you very much for talking to us by. oh, my pleasure, exxon. and well, 1st of all, let me start by asking you about the situation with the koran virus,

because this is something that concerns people all around the world. not only in russia, brazil, but in many other countries. i know that you have been very, very critical of how your own country under your success are dealt with the corona virus pandemic. but putting present bolts in all right. aside and focusing solely on your countrymen on the brazilians. do you think that experience and brazil has had a very difficult experience with corporate 900? do you think that experience has been scaring enough to immunize your people again, demagoguery and populism, or has it on the contrary, made them more susceptible to this brand of politics? by your own problem, a little bit of the problem with the list that our president does not respect science or medicine. you know, those who understand the meaning and severity of the covered 19 pandemic, paid for the president did not purchase vaccines when he could have done so. he

does not believe in immunization as a way of fighting against the corona virus. of course he does not believe in isolation or in wearing mask. you know, my and i won't be the some for my do will come back to him. it doesn't matter where the one person dies. 165000 people die, which is a number of deaths. so for me to be fit for because of his disrespect for science, i think our president is almost genocidal. or because many people died due to lack of guidance from the government, or because of its mis guidance. you cannot. why can we handle that for kill them up about the force he does not leave and need to humanize the government for that. the people not needed not to define protocols. what category did not gather scientist or state and governors, toys, if he did not make any of the decisions that a democratic government that is concerned with the people would have made president wil you never means wards had talking about president vol scenario and i'm sure you

have many unflattering terms to, to, to say about him. but again, my question was about the brazilian people, because if we look at the opinion, polls keys approval rating, still, harvard is around 40 percent. what is it in hand? so many brazilians respond to and do you think brazilians as a hall have changed view of politics as a result of this very, very hard pandemic that they have to face. look forward to who is the 15th. i would rather not go into this subject of numbers and polls point because both scenario has been dropping steeply in the post with the vehicle when they ask respondents whether they approve of the government and many times they present only the answers all excellent or good. and regular, i went to what allowed awards you view when they ask if the government is excellent,

good or terrible, then it's different to get there be no food. if you don't have a free oil scenario is experiencing his worst moment. okay. yeah. really affordable for natalie. canon's polls confirm that i would beat him in the election, split my vote in the 1st round and in the runoff, brazilian people behave according to the information they receive. was her patient in many right wing people in brazil doing both scenario gathered around him, members of local militia, groups of people who were fascist. a few people who were in favor of military dictatorships for people who are nazis, or there's only 2 very familiar that many former military officials, if you have a pool, he does have supporters, which maybe 25 or 35 percent to $65.00 or 75 percent are still against him to be prepared. when that is why i'm sure that democracy will win, the democracy will win the elections on 2022. if you don't reach your voice. now

speaking about october 2022, you haven't confirmed and decisively, but i think you provided enough hands to expect your ron for the presidency commack toby is 2022 if that comes to pass or even if it doesn't, how do you think that presidential priorities in the presidential challenges of 2022 differ from the challenges of 2003. when you secure your 1st presidential term permit, you do to kill no stone protocol on our family to have said that i'm not worried about the 2022 elections problem because we have greater issues to deal with and 2021 of them will have been going to be seen up to the battery and we're asking the vaccine for the population safety board because our only guaranteed a fight cobit that and bring the country back to normal. want to get his vaccine

security luggage would be very weird, demanding, emergency aid for the population, but i got an unemployment is very high. there are 15000000 people without jobs and i got a lawyer. we had a couple eliminated famine in brazil in 2012 for the vote, and it has returned very strongly in the country who in the 1st we must recover the brazilian people's quality of life, of health and well being responsible for we can think about 2022 boys, as he said, brazil has the world's stories large as death stall, approaching half a 1000000 dad, and yet in april and brazil's house regulator and visa rejected the use of the russian maid vaccine split need be citing inherent risk and serious defects, even though internationally split me is recognized as one of the safest vaccines.

do you see any traces of call it takes in that decision? which one has to have vaccines from the whole world and the data from all countries including sputnik v. i actually had conversations with carol demitria from korea who is responsible for the fun which sponsors vaccine production and russia for the good public household of us. you know, if i took for former health ministers to talk with mr. demetrius, besides the former president of visa and governors of the p t party, what do you do? your total the including one from the northeast region of a unit. they are all fighting to get vaccines and have orders for it for we met these good. we felt the seems to be a problem with production and distribution with the coffee and also with its acceptance. here in brazil, yuki all of your audio, any people are suspicious that former president from recommended pro and there is

documentary evidence of it for the president bell scenario does not purchase the russian vaccine off in the same way that he heavily criticized a chinese vaccine finishing the over if the brazilian president was really committed to the people of his country to the he would have spoken to president putin. paula would have set up a bilateral committee with russian and brazilian experts get our phone. and we would have solved the vaccination problem. a long time ago, you told me to go over the president does not take any measures. he can. the truth is that he is under pressure. i cannot prove it, but it is largely visible. there is a political impediment to purchase russian vaccines in brazil, peril press as though also heavy criticism towards the chinese vaccine view. the key at the maple leaf. well, mister president, you just connected the rejection of splitting the vaccine in brazil to the conversation between president voss and our president trump. but it was already

under president bob in the us department of house and human services in his annual report. and march of 2021 boasted about having used in diplomatic mass all to quote, persuading brazil to reject a russian cove at 900 vaccine, which he described as a malign influence detrimental to your safety and security. and, you know, i can on some level understand the logic of the, of the american officials. after all, they are not responsible for the house of the brazilian people. they're trying to do what they define to be in that country of interest. but what about those brazilian officials who are charged with protecting public house? is that okay, is it even the legal in brazil to come to that kind of diplomatic pressure on public health issues or the book of the brazilian? people certainly want the russian vaccine graph and i feel the national congress

has passed a decision that if the russian vaccine is approved by other countries, it can be approved in brazil view the brazilian health regulatory agency. and visa kelly has determined many demands and requirements of the russian vaccine. and i played with our russian friends to submit a fall necessary documentation because people in brazil may need vaccines. and we do not have arguments against those who oppose the russian vaccine. if you don't give a few, not yet seems to me exxon or the vaccine is about couldn't make interests. and that is an ideological war. but after jack, obviously the us defendant, the american companies and the u. k. defense, the british companies. what there's all them in stock, but brazil does not need to worry about defending the us. leave it there, needs to worry about the health of the big need to worry about the health of it.

250000000 inhabitants will be very ill asked by the american back and the russian vaccines, as well as the chinese cuban near the, or any other vaccines with scientifically proven quality care for a pro fee interest at health of brazilians. that must be championed by the brazilian government, not the us government ref. i will do the over the year by the way, since the early 2nd semester of 2029, we signed the document requesting breach of the vaccine. pasent was important. stated this in several interviews. in the us, germany, france, and u. k. probably might have, but the vaccine should be turned into our public assets. the people all over the world be vaccinated, but we have to be feeling well and that there have been a lot of talk about solidarity and equitable access to vaccines in the very beginning of this been done. but we all saw that when push came to shove,

everybody was out for themselves, and it was the reach of countries that 1st and foremost, contract that vaccines for themselves, many more vaccines that they actually need that needed. and they continue forwarding according those vaccines, rather than sharing it with the, with the rest of the world. what does it tell you about the state of little ship in the world today? because those are the very same countries who like to preach about democracy and to preach about solidarity to preach about human lives and human rights, the value of human life. but when it comes to hard times, they seem to be only caring about their own political considerations. or crook sana, p. u, i have been following what is going on in the world. if you look at, i believe that really need to bring down this objection at a sovereign countries. critical facebook. if you go by you before. good brazil is not against the u. s. w, the visual,

but if you and we want to have partnerships and good relations with them, but need to get him a 5. president. putin also says he wants good relations with us. what boy law firm wants to be contentious, get him going things he wants to have a good relations with all countries stand up when i compared to however, the us once a world in which day the only country to determine every thing of haley tiasha last week in an interview, resident biden's said that the u. s. he wants to be a beacon for the globe. if you don't have all the world doesn't eat up the can, you know them and you had all the well can really want all countries to be for tunnel on you to develop partnerships that you could go through buffy. brazil must be a suffering country will be about just like russia, but you've china and the us and it will be studied. we don't want a shooter. we don't need to, to know cody to or you feel free to work for,

you know, that's why i've defended a change in global governance and we must change the un security council who i sure do, we can't continue with the same security council that was set out in 1948 and i think they were, we can't continue to have institutions that were created in bretton woods where institutions like the security council, the b i n, f and the world bank must all be remodeled with the remote people and segments participating for 45 people also eliminate vito rights because no country is superior to any other game. and this is what we'll do to ensure a new global governance. if i got a few that favors the poor countries democratically, if you will be enough and will go for the foreboding, they will come to come in to fight my father. the me

i summer solutions. that's why we don't look at the problem to look at the solution and that today we've got the one on the marshall auerbach is the market analyst at levy institute research and tragic follower of the toronto man place. but maybe this is they are they want to stanley cup? i met my lovely weekend and obviously wanted to know me and johnny douglas gave me up the gotta go through the the or up in the kitchen

table out them out. i gotta get my, don't get a get. we'll put it on the shoulder. wait for the meeting id. really lucky vendors. me up and everybody can bye bye. bye now, bye. and then because you guys name, i wonder why not what i mean? yeah. the me or i you mentioned 15000000 brazilians who are out of jobs right now. and the government, when you were empowered,

was credited for lifting millions and millions out of power 10, giving them jobs. do you think the challenge right now is bigger? it's bigger down, it was back in early 2, thousands am i bought. okay. it's a lot bigger now. there's when i became president in 2003, the press in brazil was bankrupt to view and that i would have many problems in recovering the country that open of, you know, if we did recover brazil on the dish up when i left the government economy was growing up to 7 percent a year. well, but our view brazil did not have any reserves when i took office in 2003, 3. and we had $170000000000.00 in international reserves. when i left. and i could share i brought up that might be few. now things are more difficult for me exactly because of this, i will be able to fix brazil out of your pocket. during my administration, i held 64 national conferences to define public policies that we would implement in

brazil after because because you know, i v deal with collocation. but because of the conferences on culture, on health, how would you consider curity would have on indigenous people will be black. people will be naval. there was 64 conferences quite to and this is how we created 22000000 jobs in queue and raised salaries by 64 percent and lifted 36000000 people out of policy and lifted 36000000 people out of poverty. we w van raised 40000000 to the middle class level manager. though one will feel awful . this is how we brought her to a barren desert region by pick up. so when you asked the people, if you will read and the people help you by participating, it is much easier to rule and to do things carol, and this is how i wants to return with my party and that we can bring back the new joy and happiness and pride really, being brazilian, who's the favorite of

a little while we are on the issue of employment. i know that a long, long time ago when you weren't 12 years old, you started working as a shoe. shine boy, and i'm sure as any 1st job it must have left some sort of mark on you. what was his life? no. well oh yes. i did indeed shine shoes on the figure because, you know, well we are nobody fuck. it meant that i was able to earn enough money to buy a large piece of bread worth a band with some sausage and a soda, like you went there, was that was what i had for lunch. do you meet the theater? because you had to buy even appreciated, shining shoes in my new coffee for a long time at home when there was no food. my mother spare. yes m, i would say, if you wait until tomorrow things will be better to be another. that's how i lead my life. i think that everything can be resolved if we're willing to fight to fix

things up. i believe. well leticia lack of causes. commitment or will it go my culver since i don't have any personal commitments before i commitment is to try to help resilient people and working people over time to improve their lives by february, you know, by the month brazil cannot go on lagging behind. the 21st century, nor we need to evolve. all we resume has a wonderful, happy population. united probably love music and dancing to be moved. really love to work the phone and respect about. yeah, it will be worth of the this is the country. i wonder coming back go go vote. that's why i work so hard here. nope, i can i ask you about the brazilian relationship with the united states because he just mentioned that the managed to have very good relationship with all sorts of leaders around the world. and the, and the united states has always had a pretty big influence on the brazilian politics. i know that you previously

accused criminal or rather linked criminal proceedings against you with them. merican influences. wow. if you ever come to a power again, if your party comes back to power, how do you in this is resist? post true v the united states vision will be stopped. i did not accuse the us bravo. we have proof table. we have videos and recordings and documents from the us department of justice, but i mean, it would be 50 for books and from prosecutors working tested brazilian companies to condemn the level of the public. no one know 4 docks. i don't get w shobel and deep down economy to be, what was it? that was the increasing presence, the brazilian companies in the global market. we have done my own petrograd. tried to fetch, had made the greatest oil discovery in the 21st century in the sub cell. clare. no, no my would like to leave this aside and tell you that during my administration.

okay, us, did you not a metal in our affairs? maybe boyce, on december, the 10th, 2002, i was invited by president bush. no, i wasn't even in office. and bush was terrified. she wanted to end terrorism. get in to get into and he needed to invade iraq. you hope you had a preview by bush invited me to take brazil to participate in the iraq war. but at cooper and i hold president bush on that december. the 10th 2002 bow shoot that i didn't know saddam hussein boys can know that iraq was 12000 kilometers away from my country. i got those rebuking iraq had never done anything against brazil glenda . my walk is not against the iraq view, but against hunger in my own country and reform. and by the idea of the americans being a lighthouse for the world and not letting anyone else beat economically. no good rama americans must know that we don't want a sheriff for

a mental health care. we want to partner who do you have to go where she report that you fail to prevent you both. we want to be brothers and sisters show you to come with the vote. so that's why i think the role president putin has played in global politics in recent years is very important to career. but we must not be dominated. i want russia, china, brazil, argentine around mexico to grow as well as the us respecting the freedom and sovereignty of other countries. if the p t returns to the government, well, this is how we will deal with the u. s. but present, go and do you think the united states is ready to give you that respect for sovereignty, for the right to determine your own faith to determine your own past development? because as you pointed out in many of your interviews, the americans have long treated latin america as if it were that own backyard. do you think the united states is ready to give you that sort of vision to allow you

to practice over in fear? oh no, it's not up to the us. me to allow us to do them with stock or we must be ready to exercise our sovereignty. there's a pretty good deal. i rules brazil during an extraordinary period as well as in venezuela. gina, christina, kitchen argentina, job michelle busha and chilly walker. rafael career in ecuador and evil morales in bolivia. america before it was the best moment for south america. we've strengthened the cosa well and expelled. c, f t, a actually created in a sore and cell view and we created the bricks. full. why organized meetings between south america and africa and south america and the arab countries? families get up with fever by we proved that brazil could have sovereignty, and international protagonist proven would be and that this could be reached

without having to off of the us. i don't, they don't have to ask permission from the us to be the owners of our own backyard . i will problem. the problem is brazil has a ruling class, an elite that is subservient. they cannot do anything without asking permission from the us. human, as i told you, with a start, i have a diversity back to the us and for the american people, paper bill of america will be billable. they can take care of themselves medical and i will take care of brazil the same way that i want to rush and mr. take care of russia and chinese to take care of china. don't be noise so that we can be sovereign in a multi polar world warfare with peace and come for last many books and very little weapon talk with you about with a lot of culture and little violence. talk about it. and my last question to you, i can see a stack of books behind your back and it's very daring knowing that as

a kid, you're had to quit school fairly early and you had to help your family. and probably because of that you missed on reading some of the books that perhaps people off your age had to read. i know that you opened more universities than any other president in brazil despite having no formal education. my last question to you is this by the age of 75. have you had a chance to read all the books that you had to pass on when you were working kids or no problem? the problem is that i began to work when i was 11 years old. there was no time to read always for a long time. i felt frustrated because i wanted to go to university and become an economist or forget to quote on my choke that i'd like to be an economist because the economists to know a lot when they're in the opposition course, whether in government, no, very little. i say this to economists because i'd like to have

a better education. what i did, i learned a lot my view up and you moved and i became what i am through my struggles in life . up in the week of quite an apartment. if i learned a lot at the gates of the plants where i worked and one of the 5 am midnight at 1 am at noon 2 pm, but a few what i learned a lot traveling all over brazil by you. i believe nobody knows my country as well as i do, you know, impede board. i covered almost 92000 kilometers by train by boat, i car and by bus. so i learned a lot by talk and i listen to it was going to, i like to ask about things, i don't know, i q and i hope to continue to read everything. i didn't have a chance to read that in my early days. well, it presents always been great, great on our talking to you. thank you very much, very much for your time and best of luck with your future endeavors and travels. i hope they bring you to the place where you want to be pretty good. thank you. and

thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on was apart from me. the me ah, the what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful,

very critical of time. time to sit down and talk to the or 5 g. europe unleashes the latest technology and a bit to render its borders impenetrable. to migrate the blocks of southern states demand tougher action, the middle spiking, you've come in the well, this is the latest gas it in the russian city of st. petersburg this week for the 1st the face to face global. busy financial event of the year, keith speak is included vladimir putin, who, among other things and our plans to develop a vaccine tourism industry. and our travels to the central republic with a special report where russian military advisers are helping the government bring the country's brutal civil war to an end. there is a mind that sounded serial might be going to destroy the tribe.