it is an unseen will being waged in our name one that is biological even if you don't believe a ca and that might fix reef journalists after their poor records and w. m d, should we all be taking will nurses of the lab, lee? hi paul. this is about the birth of corona virus. show me now from new jersey is wilma new york. time science editor, nicholas wade. nicholas, thanks so much for coming on before we get to the actual article. do you think it's been unfair? how arguably disinterested a pc written which was republish in the bulletin of atomic scientists how it's been treated as cold war propaganda? what i haven't seen that i'm sorry that's been, but the piece just tried to stick as closely as possible to assign to the facts. remo policy, some of these, i'm just looking at whether sam to the facts lead and i will be sorry if anyone treated as propaganda, which is not what we always say. everything is as political on, on this program and certainly say hit certain political nerves. and you

address towards the end of the piece, something that has been said in recent days, that part of the reason people want to say current advice didn't come from a lab is because trump points into it or yes, i think i was saying important in per rising the debate, so as soon as trump said that she said about the qualification, then everyone tell the story about the politics instead of the science and debate was so her eyes that people forgot to look catherine the sanity facts. and this was one reason why the more than the story has totally been missed by the mainstream grass. now, i understand that you quoted russian entrepreneur uri dig in his section of covey. let alone nikolai petrosky, i don't know very connected to russia showing how a suited size to was optimal for human receptors. did i get you thinking as well?

i yes, this is a very remark essay taking published just over a year ago. and he really laid out the story for anyone who wanted to follow his lead. he showed high and shake apart as far as somebody had, he didn't endorse the idea. this is been manipulation of lab, but he should clearly how it was very possible. no virus, right? from the start was very good at attacking human cells. so this is peculiar because versus when they jump from one animal species to another, they usually take quite a lot of time to adapt. they need so many mutations to affect about new target. and you can see this happening in the case of soft warm that's the jamming, the too crazy too fast and to, you know, about flushing mutations before. it had perfected its ability to attack humans. if you look at koby to there's none of that taishan period, right? from the start, it's very distracting human cells,

very hard to explain on the natural immersion species. very easy to explain on the ladder creek idea because we know that she's child chinese so fast. our g stopped asian we, she was testing out not on humans. of course that would be unethical, but on human eyes, mice, that's my genetically engineered, to carry the human protein in the cells of ours. certain viruses have been trained on human eyes mice. it's no problem to explain why they were so when jackie from the start to humans and, and we know from filings that this is the kind of research that was being carried out. you make it clear that there is a new intermediate species that the bat, caves that have been talked him out of 1000 kilometers from woo hon. but no one seems to be an infected on the way. i mean, i want to return to the politics of the in a 2nd, but i mean, you might, i don't know whether you can, even though we all think we're all epidemiologist. now what fewer and cleavage and

human preferred code on tsar, i don't know whether you can make a stab at explaining to our audience what they are and why they suggest that at least we must understand it's possible that corona virus was manipulated in the origin. well, if you have our largest, the 1st thing that stands out about as far as is it has a tiny little bit of genetic information called the feeling cleavage side. and it's driving the little respite protein away. so happens the spike crushing in order to deploy once it's lashondra targets, it has to be caught into to say that the other possible merge device is membrane without human cells. so you're included, shy is what enables the virus to do that. and the reason why it's so sticks out, i saw some indication of this bar is the if you look at the prices in its family,

which of course, becca viruses. there's no other subject of ours that has this fear and shines. so this is important, sorry, game new bits of genetic information by exchanging the chair with each other. this happens to the human. so the same. so when we combination require us new properties by the combination. but the one thing you cannot require is some property that your family does not possess. so it's very hard to explain, are natural emergence, how could we to came last year and shine, but on the laboratory carry, it is easy because our just a decade, the way to size up of biases. but as you are in fact, human cells is to set up your grieving chart, and there it isn't. just the right position in the south region. gina, so how disturbed are you? we invite the editor of the lands on this show that scientists were so quick to

discount the lab leak theory even before further evidence had been emerged that they had been experimenting the way they had been in hand. and these elements of the story on so easy to add to alphabet 0. nordic transmission. well, i'm very concerned that the image of the luncheon published this letter. it turned out to be drafted by doctor peter dasha, who either enormous conflict of interest in this case. because he finally money from the national interest of health by his organization in new york to dr. young the she had to do our job. so if there had been any virus escaping from the lab, he is the, the principal investigation reforms. what potentially a fault? well, he would deny, obviously, any wrong doing or any funneling of money. these were ground to eco help or ego eco

science. i mean, that's another element to this puzzle because if anyone thinks that you are a sign, a phobe, the money itself came from us taxpayers for the research we're talking about. well, i don't think dr. rush were denied keith of the money. i mean, the matter public records, he's the principal investigator on the ground from the national health. and he had as his sub ground t doctors only, she must not dispute for the grant process, which obviously was awarded the grant from the us authorities. he was one of the broad naturalists to some extent, responsible what his socrates do with the money, but this conflict of interest which should have been declared on the launch, it letter was not detract in fact, the letter n saying lead no call into the interests of a w h o apparently went further investigation. we've learned in the,

in the past few days. we obviously invite the editor of the lancet on these no here to defend him self. but it therefore would suggest that because the united states taxpayer was involved and the chinese communist, well, if you're involved, it's a perfect storm of wanting to deny the lovely theory straight away. well, i think the motivation for denying the last period straight away came from twos, 2 small groups of barometers. so dr. bachelor publishing the launch, it was the 1st and the 2nd was a group publishing an initial medicine added by doctor christian anderson. so these 2 letters were denied underwriting lab me and said it was impossible that have been manipulated, is to let us captions and narrative. they will not challenge by the mainstream press. the challenge, my son sounds journalists,

he'll be one of the united states as most important science journalists, arguably, is this common that they, is there a class dimension to the whole story that people have very easily swayed to go with the establishment level of the scientists themselves. who briefing the journalists, there's a kind of herd mentality. there is a mentality among germans that so quite correct. i think sunshine is just a different from other journalists. they tend to search their sources. so political journalist, when they say, well like so it's j, a journalist, take the view. here's the great wisdom of scientists, convey it to the unwashed masses, or masters not realizing that sources have have about their own particular interest. in many cases, i'm not, i think you mean to kind to political journalist in fans. what do you think of the chinese response that the united states is better lead

w h. o people into for dietrich, we know the germ warfare laboratory, 50 miles, washington d. c. hasn't been investigated and where is patients 0? i mean where, where is the curiosity that you do show in this article about where patients 0 is because china clearly have some people out there. briefing people that look was the military games in the united states service men and women went over to hand where his patients, 0 italy, spain the us where waiver for dietrich is just as i said, the chinese do you know that i didn't know. i think you were right, we didn't know who patients 0 was and it will be very good to find out which i mean it is not a not allowing anyone to see the kind of evidence we would need to determine that. no nora, us authorities allowing us to see what's happening there. i'm obviously,

i'm not allowed to go into the board and down the, the research facilities involved in the bio warfare are off limits to journalists as well. what do you advise journalists do in a situation like this with a virus that has killed 3700000 people? well, i think we should encourage scientists to, to reconsider the possibility of lab lee, which has been steadfastly ignored for the last 16 months. and if scientists in each country particular groups like the royal society or the us national academy of sciences, what is set up groups to look into elaborate, can considered for the 1st time. and if they should conclude, as my ask for the laboratory is more like creation, here's a better explanation of evidence. i think that was for the 1st time. ready pressure on chinese government to reach the information that has worked out up until now and

for the 1st time the chinese would face pressure to either cooperate with the rest of the world in resolving this problem or to become perhaps associated with future will just very briefly do you think it be more difficult for you because of your previous work on race to get the article out there and accepted to make people question more about the origins of corona virus? no, not at all. i wrote, if i'm a say, an excellent book on the biological basis, other raises a lot of criticism for them. was criticized by a whole group of scientists who could find on a single era in the book and not a single ration statement. 100 senior, when i thought i was supposed to make, if you didn't have the facts, you try and build up as many people as you can to make. it seems by the way she was archie. you have something on the outside. the story about einstein who's told that a 100 scientists that signed the letter proving him wrong. and he said,

if i were wrong, one would have been enough to answer this book of mine did not. anyway, m p 's, this totally different subject of the arch, soft covey to nicholas wade. thank you. after the break, we go to the aging this weekend, vice president of this and the vagina. globalization began to get his take on theories of china, lab leak, killing millions. all this was coming up by 2 of going undergrad, summer solutions. that's where i would look at the problem and look at the solution . and today we've got the one and only marshall auerbach is the market analyst that levy institute researcher and tragic follower of the toronto police by maybe this is they are they want to stanley cup the i don't know. i mean,

there are some steps in there were rescuing the food that they were not scabbing or were rescuing resources that are still good. this is best buy march 21st, which is in 2 days. all these potatoes, paula pianos, onions, all of these came from waste brown sources. this is great for me because i'm always looking for a way to give things away. dr. because the tax laws, you know, definitely do benefit the wealthier people and our society. so it makes sense for them to throw it out right off, rather than give it to somebody who could use it and then that person is not going to buy it in the welcome back. in the 1st half of the show, we heard from former new york times in nicholas wade, his article on the origins of cove in 1900 together with m i 6 and the ca, if arguably, fuel renew delegations of a will hand lab leak. now let's go to beijing to speak to the vice president of the

center, china and globalization gao to hear what china makes of it makes it thanks so much for coming back on why. why a chinese authorities so angry about us, u. k. secret intelligence agencies telling journalistic co we'd comes from a woo and lab labs. well, 1st of all, to trace the real origin of colby 19 adamic. we need to put science 1st and exclude all the conspiracy appear events. and then there is a process headed by the w h. o channel. cooperated with rachel from the very beginning when the panoramic was discovered in han and also grew fuel stuff is an investigation stand by the rachel scientist, men from actually our american scientists. so let's follow the process rather than allow conspiracy theories to gain the upper head. crother allow me to make up because i think when you build up a global corporate 19 chronology,

because now we know for sure that before the outbreak in han with the benefit of hindsight they will discover is all the pharisee and many other parts of the world . the japan, for example, in italy, and more importantly in the united states. so i think we cannot just focus on china . for example, patient 0 for the spanish cru cannot be found in space this back in the united states because the american soldier brought the problem to spake. that's more than 100 years ago. we need to use a similar mythology to methodology to really find the real origin, all the yeah. and so the w h o ted ro side. norma says, all i bought, this is remain on the table and it requires further investigation whether it came from. and of course, you mentioned the american scientist to back the chinese government's view about the origin of corona virus. well,

it turns out that lab was funded by the us taxpayer, the one now a shadow is cost over it by nicholas wade. loon, m 6, c a and and ok. some journalists may just take their information from the intelligence agencies. geopolitical reasons, but it is a w h o that says we need to investigate china. i hope you will read the conclusion of the w h l scientific team very carefully. that's not. what's the conclusion all about? i think the actual team has already reached their conclusion. the assigned a very little evidence to the so called the lapse theory. and they clean the much more closely to the natural origin from the animal world to mankind, for example. so i think we need to really take the w h o conclusion as it is rather then allow the intelligence agencies to do the job besides this. because otherwise,

you just get a bunch of conspiracy theories. ok, well they don't just says the needs to be more investigation. and for dietrich, despite what your foreign ministry spokesperson said about how that should be investigated, the germ warfare laboratory near washington dc. that's not going to happen. us authorities are not going to obviously do that. if i mean, can i just ask if the lab is responsible for the leak? would china come clean about it? would china be to flight and meetings the truth? first of all, this is absolutely absurd because you have now said something which is not proven which is which has no solid evidence, which is based on very flimsy accusations. auctions bears the theory is, therefore, we can use that as the starting point, but it is the case and we have the details, obviously because it's american funded research in china and laboratory. so we know

that what they were doing and was to experimentally using reverse genetic pseudo virus receptor binding assa, via, i mean, you know, i'm not an epidemiologist, but it looks to me like exactly the kind of transfer we know the national institutes of health said that there was no evidence of the hospital surveillance or the epidemic. no intermediate species have been presented by chinese authorities . we know that there are no bad population has been produced as a sole source of the size to and china close down its databases. why we're trying to close down its databases when these allegations emerge in the 1st place. well, 1st of all, i'm going to say several things. china and the united states, the 2 largest countries in the world. the 2 most powerful countries in the world's, traditionally for the past several decades, they have very extensive corporations in many, many as areas. and i would say the extent of their corporation is far beyond many

people's imagination. that's number one. now in this particular case, china, us corporation, is also very extensive, a very in depth and for the study alleged in that paper is not confined to hon itself. it's done by many laboratories in the united states and i hope and to the u. s. government to use the same level of transparency that china has already opened up with cooperation with w h o in cooperate with the show and being plugging in all the data points that there is already available in the united states into that global chronology so that we will know for sure the real reasons for the dietrich kotia, the real reason for the cigarette problem. the similar case is which can now be traced back to koby 19 problem. so the major point is

that we need to science above politics. all conspiracy theories you really feel that the where is the real origin of the ok? well, i mean the b, b c is reporting a 41 year old in jenks who has age 10 in 3 bird flu 1st time ever human has got it . there's in the past few days, china is not revealing any details and actually what you just said, they're about to close cooperation with the united states, which was at this we had the oratory. why does china cooperate in this way with the united states? is it a remnant of colonialism? i mean, the, you know, it wasn't that long ago, they bombed your embassy in the us, la, via you saw them. i mean, obviously things change a little bit in anchorage. the chinese foreign minister did start talking about black lives matter. when confronted by the blinking accusations, willis, cooperation go on with the united states as the united states, the, by the ministration accuses china of perhaps creating a virus that killed 3 point. 7000000 people so far. i think the united states in

reason such allegations is not the building that case on the side step in the case i'm considering a on the so called intelligence report, which general motors thursday here is victory and bounds on that. was it was the u . s. funded laboratory and you can just say it's a conspiracy that hits the chinese communist, but because it was the united states but taxpayer was funding the research on the bat. viruses for your information. the number 3 was joint venture between china and france. it is very much up to international stand because the french scientists, where they're helping their chinese colleagues to stop with this number 30 to start with. and one of the projects i understand involved the china, us corporations, and such corporation. john, not the united states, covers multiple areas in many, many different b as in high and in many other parts of china. and i think the world need to be

prepared for china and the united states to get along with each other other. then each of those broach what you're saying now creates the idea of a conspiracy. and some of a view is that there's a sino american conspiracy given this level of cooperation of a corona, virus research in, in china and in the united states. is that what is a know, y'all allegation is based on the wrong conclusion to start with. that is, the virus came from a leak from the laboratory. that's not proven. there is no hard evidence to back that up. and i think that that's not generally embraced by the scientific community in the world. so let's be real, really all this. let's put science for us. let's really exclude the distorting facts. all the conspiracy theories. and let's call a spade a spade. in britain,

in london, there's something called the we tribunal has britain sends its war ship the age of ms. elizabeth towards you. we have this. i've interviewed, said jeffrey, nicely, the very eminent jurist. what do you make of a tribunal here funded by on equal the world we go? congress jeffrey nice of course, was at the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia and co authored an anti acid report about syria. allow me to make several points. first of all, she enjoys part of china and no one can change that back. secondly, the weigle brothers and sisters are part of the chinese nationality. they are chinese citizens. they need to abide by chinese ross. and their faith is law should be protected to the maximum extent and people's right to go to their mosques, for example, to worship in their way are fully protected by the japanese law. and from i think

in she and john, there are radicalization spill over from the 20 year old warning. i understand that being cases of terrorism extremism separatism, you name it, and we need to get united as a nation to put these evil forces out of the equation. in jean jones and the other part of the world. let's focus on the mega try that is but mega trent being cheating job. i think we are now faced with the job a resurgence of radicalization and areas of being at this time because the united states and nato are leaving us, that we set up a job for peace and stability in back 100. that's a shame, and that will definitely be very, very damaging to countries the regions in that part of the world, including charlotte sheen, jo, assuming the americans to stay in afghanistan. that suggested that he wanted to stay there. no, i called for the needed withdraw the u. s. troops that nato troops route guns done,

but they need to leave behind a structure and the framework for peace and stability rather than just color and rum. ok, i mean, you know, this evidence will be mounting and the media will be talking all about the alleged genocide is it talked about in western countries of the g 7 happening in cornwall dealing china will be looking to the g 20 in rome. and what does china think of this g 7 summit? what's your view? personal about the g 7 festival. i wish that you have some a, a good lunch in dealing with many emerge an urgent situations that economies are faced with. if they wanted, turn g 70 to a platform again, china does china, they will fail because no, why should the dodge in the undersea that by putting maximum pressure on china, china will back know china will stand very firm on matters of principle and defend very fiercely it's fundamental interest and china will not allow any one g 7 or

anyone else to push to turn out to the wall without consequences. china, i need to strike back and the chinese people would be very much united behind the chinese government being defending the fundamental interest of china. china's rights of economic development is an alien level. right? no one can expect to take away that right from the chinese people because otherwise taking away the right of the chinese people's development, right will be the biggest crime against humanity. well, we invite said geoffrey, 9 weeks ago. thank you. once again. thank you very much. and that's it for the show will be back on wednesday, 2 years since no nation media exploded about demonstrations in hong kong. the china accused of having links to the u. s. national. endowment for democracy until then, keep in touch via social media. and if you're watching on youtube, comment below and let us know what you think is the most likely origin of covered 90.

ah, as a korea professionals board is much tougher on some than others. she was year old myer by everybody. so why would somebody believe me, i was just a little girl. the price paid to, to, to achieve really was, was to read in the paper this morning, usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girl. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office. i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. there's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. is that documentary? see it on r t long when i would show

the wrong one, i'll just don't rule out the same because the after an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves, well the part we choose to look for common ground in so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have is crazy plantation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very political time. time to sit down and talk to the

board. she in the stories that shape the week on r t. europe reveals the latest weapon to deter migrants. a powerful acoustic cannon is being used to shore up its border. that is the block southern states demand tougher action. i made a spike, a newcomer also this our we look back at the 1st face to face global financial event of the year as business leaders gathered in st. petersburg among the guests was president bruton. we're nouns to plans for a vaccine tourism industry. and israel's opposition pledges to give parliament an official statement on a new coalition government on monday.