the population ahead in the london tribunal, amid the new hand probe, we speak to the vice president of the center of china in globalization gower to get china citing the story. all the more coming up and today's going underground. but 1st is the 54 out of us through the middle east, 6, a war as a reminder of the geopolitical implications of all our war. that is an unseen will being waged in our name one that is biological, even if you don't believe and ca, and that might fix reef journalists after their poor records. and w. m d, should we all be taking more notice of the lab lee hypothesis about the birth of corona virus. show me now from new jersey is wilma new york time science editor, nicholas wade. nicholas, thanks so much for coming on before we get to the actual article. do you think it's been unfair? how arguably disinterested the piece you written which was republish in the bullets in the atomic scientists how it's been treated as cold war propaganda. what i haven't seen that, i'm sorry that's been but the piece just tried to stick as closely as possible to sound the facts. remo politics, some of these i'm just looking at whether sound re,

fax, lead and i will be sorry if anyone treated as propaganda, which is not what we always say. everything is as political on, on this program. and certainly it's a hit certain political nerves. and you address at the end of the piece, something that has been said in recent days, that part of the reason people want to say corona virus didn't come from a lab is because trump once into the are yes, i think that was very important in per rising the debate servicers trumpet said that when she said about the qualification, then everyone tells the politics instead of the science and debate was so her eyes that people forgot to catherine the sanity facts. and this was one reason why more than the story has totally been miss by the mainstream grass. now,

i understand that you quoted russian, entrepreneur uri dagon, is the section of covey. let alone nikolai petrosky. i don't know very connected to russia showing how a suited to is optimal for a human receptors. did i get you thinking as well? yes, this is a very remarkable essay taking published just over a year ago. and he really laid out the story for anyone who wanted to follow his lead. he showed high and shake upon as far as somebody had, he didn't endorse the idea. that's been manipulation. but he should clearly how it was very possible virus right from the start was very good at attacking human cells . so this is peculiar because ours is when they jump from one animal species to another. they usually take quite a lot of time to adapt of any so many mutations to effect about new target. and you can see this happening in the case of soft warm. that's the jimmy the to create,

to pass into, you know, about flesh immunizations before it had perfected its ability to attract humans. if you look at koby to there's, there's none of that adaptation period right from the start. it's very distracting . human cells, very hard to explain on the natural emergencies. very easy to explain on the ladder creek idea because we know that she's child chinese so fast power. she stopped me. she was testing of ours is not on humans. of course that would be unethical. but on human eyes, mice, that's my genetically engineered, to carry the human protein in the cells of their hours. certain viruses have been trained to humanize mikes. it's no problem to explain why they were so when jackie from the start to humans and, and we know from filings that this is the kind of research that was being carried out. you make it clear that there is a new intermediate species that the bat,

caves that have been talked him out of 1000 kilometers from woo hon. but no one seems to be infected on the way. i mean, i want to return to the politics of the in a 2nd, but i mean, you might, i don't know whether you can, even though we all think we're all epidemiologists now, what fewer and cleavage and human preferred code on czar. i don't know whether you can make a stab at explaining to our audience what they are and why they suggest that at least we must understand it's possible that corona virus was manipulated laboratory . i will, if you have our largest, the 1st thing that stands out about as far as is it has a tiny bit of genetic information called the feeling cleavage side. and it's driving the little spy protein away. so happens the spike question in order to deploy, once it's lashawn on top, it has to be cut into 2 said that the other merge device is membrane without human

cells. so here are included shy is what enables the virus to do that. and the reason why this so sticks out, i saw some indication of this bar is the if you look at the prices in its family, i wish you a call back or viruses. there's no other subject of ours that has is fear in cream shines. so this is important game new bits of genetic information by exchanging the chair with each other. this happens in 2 hours is the same. so when we combination acquire new properties by the combination for the one thing you can also clar is some property that your family does not possess. so it's very hard to explain, are natural emergence, how could we to came last year and shine? but on the levity here, it is easy because our just a decade, the way to spice viruses. but as you are in fact, human cells is to ensure that

a few and clever chart and there it isn't just the right position in the south beach in june. so how disturbed are you? we invite the editor of the lands on this show that scientists were so quick to discount the lab leak theory even before further evidence had been emerged that they had been experimenting the way they had been in hand. and these element of the story on so easy to add up about an arctic transmission. well, i'm very concerned that the average of the launching published is lesser. it turned out to be drafted by dr. pizza dasha, who has enormous conflict of interest in this case. because he finally money from the national interest of health by his organization in new york to dr. young the she had to her and she devoured you. so if there had been any advice escaping from

her lap, he is the principal investigation of your phones. what potentially a fault? well, he would deny, obviously any wrong doing or any funding of money. these were grant to eco help or ego eco science. i mean that that's another element to this puzzle. because if anyone thinks that you are a sign, a phobe, the money itself came from us taxpayers for the research we're talking about. well, i don't think dr. batch were denied chief of the money damage the matter records. he's the principal investigator on the ground from the national health and he had as his sub ground t doctors only. she must not dispute for the grant process, which obviously was awarded the grant from the us authorities. he was awarded a nationalist to some extent responsible. what his sub grantees do with the money,

but this conflict of interest, which should have been declared on the launch, it letter was not declared and the letter n saying lead to no call interest. while the w h. o apparently went to further investigation. we've learned in the, in the past few days, we obviously invite the editor of the lancers on these no here to defend him self. but it therefore would suggest that because the united states taxpayer was involved and the chinese communist part, you're involved. it's a perfect storm of wanting to deny the lovely theory straight away. well, i think the motivation for denying theory straight away came from two's 2 small groups of biologists. so dr. bachelor publishing the launch, it was the 1st and the 2nd was a group publishing an initial medicine added by doctor christian anderson. so these

2 letters were denied underwriting lab me and said it was impossible of ours have been manipulated. used to let us captions and narrative, they will not challenge by the mainstream press will not change my son. sam's journalists, you be one of the united states is most important science journalists, arguably, is this common that they, is there a class dimension to the whole story that people have very easily swayed to go with the establish. what level of the scientists themselves were briefing the journalists, there's a kind of herd mentality. there is a mentality ungenerous. that so quite correct. i think sunshine is just a different from other germans. they tend to launch a sketch of our sources. so political, generous, when they say, well applies the game, so it's j a sounds journalist, small take view. here's the great wisdom of scientists,

convey it to the unwashed masses or out masses realizing that sources have, have their own particular interest. in many cases, i'm not i think you mean to kind of political janice, there in fans. what do you think of the chinese response that the united states a better lead w h o people into for dietrich, we know the germ warfare laboratory, 50 miles, washington d. c hasn't been investigated and where is patients 0? i mean, where, where is the curiosity that you do show in this article about where patients 0 is because china clearly have some people out there. briefing people that look, there was the military games in the united states service men and women went over to hand where his patients, 0 italy, spain, the us where where i have are 42 is just as diversity the chinese i how do you know that i didn't know, i think you're right,

we didn't know who patients 0 was and it was very good to find out that, but we shine, you know, how it is not a not allowing anyone to see the kind of evidence we would need to determine that. no nora, us authorities allowing us to see what's happening there. i'm only see, i'm not allowed to go to the board and down the, the research facilities involved in the bio warfare are off limits to journalists as well. what do you advise journalists do in a situation like this with a virus that has killed 3700000 people? well, i think we should encourage scientists to, to reconsider the prosperity of lab lee, which has been steadfastly, ignored for the last 15 months. and if scientists in each country particular groups like the royal society or the us national academy of sciences, what is set up groups to look into elaborate,

can considered for the 1st time. and if they should conclude as my asperger, lafferty is more like creation. here's the better explanation of evidence. i think that was for the 1st time. ready pressure on chinese government to reach the information that has worked out up until now and for the 1st time the chinese would face pressure to either cooperate with the rest of the world in resolving this problem or to become perhaps associated with future will just very briefly do you think it be more difficult for you because of your previous work on race to get the article out there and accepted to make people question more about the origins of corona virus? no, not at all. i wrote, if i may say an excellent book on the biological basis, raises a lot of criticism for them. was criticized by hope group of scientists who could find a single error in the book and not a single ration statement. 100 senior. when i thought i was supposed to make,

if you didn't have the facts, you're trying to build up as many people as you can to make it seem that by the way she was archie. you have something on the outside. the story about einstein who's told the 100 scientists that signed the letter approving him wrong. and he said, if i were wrong, one would have been enough to answer this book of mine did not in any way am piece this totally different subject or the arch, soft covey to nicholas wade. thank you. after the break, we go to aging, to speak to the vice president of the center of a china in globalization, began to get his take on theories of china lab, killing millions. all this was coming up by 2 of going undergrad. ah, ah, the summer solutions,

that's where i would look at the problem. they look at the solution and today we've got the one on the marshall auerbach is the market analyst that levy institute researcher and tragic follower of the toronto police. but maybe this is they, are they want to stand the the, the, the welcome back in the 1st half of the show we heard from foreman new york times ended in nicholas wade. his article on the origins of cove in 1900. together with m, i 6 and the ca, if arguably, fuel renew delegations of a will hand lab leak. now let's go to beijing to speak to the vice president of the center for china and verbalization. victor gouter, hear what china makes with thanks. thanks so much for coming back on why why a chinese authorities so angry about us

u. k. secret intelligence agencies having journalistic co we'd comes from a will and lab labs. well, 1st of all, to trace the real origin of colby 19 adamic. we need to put science 1st and that excludes all the conspiracy appearance and then there is a process headed by the w h o channel for the cooperated with w h o. from the very beginning. when the panoramic was discovered in han and also through the field, that is an investigation by the rachel scientist, men from actually our american scientists. so let's follow the process rather than allow conspiracy theories to gain the up ahead. crother allow me to make a proposal. i think when you build up a global corporate 19 chronology, because now we know for sure that before the outbreak han with the benefit of hindsight they will discover is all the pharisee many other parts of the world. the

japan, for example, from italy, and more importantly in the united states. so i think we cannot just focus on china . for example, patient 0 for the spanish crew cannot be found in spain this back in the united states because the american soldier brought the problem to spake. that's more than 100 years ago. we need to use a similar mythology to match methodology to really find the real origin of the yeah. and so the w h o ted ro side normally says all i bought, this is remain on the table. and it requires further investigation whether it came from. and of course you mentioned the american scientist to back the chinese government's view about the origin of corona virus. well, it turns out that lab was funded by the us taxpayer, the one now a shadow is cost over it by nicholas wade. loon m i c a and and okay.

some journalists may just take their information from the intelligence agencies. geopolitical reasons, but it is a w h o that says we need to investigate china. i hope you will read the conclusion on the w h. l. scientific team very carefully. that's not. what's the conclusion all about? i think the w h o team has already reached their conclusion. the assigned a very little evidence to the so called the lapse theory, and they clean the much more closely to the natural origin from the animal world to mankind, for example. so i think we need to really take the w h o conclusion as it is rather then allow the intelligence agencies to do the job besides this. because otherwise, you just get a bunch of conspiracy theorists. ok, well they don't just says that needs to be more investigation. and for dietrich, despite what your foreign ministry spokesperson said about how that should be

investigating the germ warfare laboratory me in washington dc. that's not going to happen. us authorities are not going to obviously do that if i mean, can i just ask if we have lab is responsible for the leak? would china come clean about it? would china be to flight and meetings the truth? first of all, this is absolutely absurd because you are now saying something which is not proven which is which has no solid evidence, which is based on very flimsy accusations. all there is the fear is therefore we can use that as the starting point, but it is the case and we have the details, obviously because it's american funded research in china, right. that will and laboratory. so we know that what they were doing and will, and was to experimentally using reverse genetic pseudo virus receptor binding as a virus, i mean, you know, i'm not an epidemiologist, but it looks to me like exactly the kind of transfer we know the national

institutes of health said that there was no evidence of the hospital surveillance. the epidemic, no intermediate species have been presented by chinese authorities. we know that there are no bath population has been produced as a sole source of the size to and china close down its databases. why would china close down its databases when these allegations emerge in the 1st place? well, 1st of all, i'm going to say several things. china and the united states, the 2 largest countries in the world. the 2 most powerful countries in the world's, traditionally for the past several decades, they have very extensive corporations in many, many as areas. and i would say the extent of their corporation is far beyond many people's imagination. that's number one. now in this particular case, china, us corporation, is also very extensive, a very in depth and for the study alleged in that paper is not confined

to hon itself. it's done by many laboratories in the united states and i hope and i to the u. s. government to use the same level of transparency that china has already opened up with cooperation with w h l e in cooperate with the tablet show and being plugging in all the data. so there is already available being of the united states into the global chronology. so that we will know for sure the real reasons for the dietrich kotia, the real reason for the cigarette problem. the similar case is which can now be traced back to koby 19 problem. so the major point is that we need to science above politics. all conspiracy is really feel that the where is the real origin of the ok? well, i mean the b, b c is reporting a 41 year old and young who has age 10 in 3 bird flu. first time ever human has got

it. there's in the past few days, china is not revealing any details and actually what you just said, they're about to close cooperation with the united states, which was at this we had laboratory. why does china cooperate in this way with the united states? is it a remnant of colonialism? i mean, the, you know, it wasn't that long ago, they bombed your embassy in the lava. you saw them. i mean, obviously things change a little bit in anchorage. the chinese foreign minister did start talking about black lives matter. when confronted by the blinking accusations, willis, cooperation go on with the united states as the united states, the, by the ministration accuses china of perhaps creating a virus that killed 3 point. 7000000 people sofa. i think the united states in reason such allegations is not building that case on the side step. in the case i'm considering a on the so called intelligence report, which general motors thursday here is victory and bounds on that was it was the u.

s. funded laboratory and you can just say it's a conspiracy that hits the chinese communist party because it was the united states, but taxpayer was funding the research on the bat, viruses for your information. the number 3 was joint venture between china and france. it is very much of 3 dimensional standard because the french scientists were there helping the chinese colleagues to stop with this number 3 to start with . and one of the projects i understand you involved, the china, us corporations and such corporation for jobs, not the not the space covers multiple areas in many, many different b as in high and in many other parts of china. and i think the world need to be prepared for china the united states, to get along with each other, other than getting on each other's roach what you're saying now create the idea of

a conspiracy in some of our view is that there's a sino american conspiracy given this level of cooperation of a corona, virus research in, in china and in the united states, is that what is a know, y'all allegation is based on the wrong conclusion. to start with, that is, the virus came from a leak from the laboratory. that's not proven, there is no hot evidence to back that up, and i think that's not generally embraced by the scientific community in the world . so let's be real, really all this, let's put science for us. let's really exclude the distorting facts, all the conspiracy theories, and let's call a spade a spade. in britain, in london, there's something called the towards you. we have this. i've interviewed, said jeffrey. nice. he's a very eminent to jurist. what do you make of a tribunal here? funded by some equal the world we go. congress jeffrey nice, of course,

was at the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia and co authored an anti assa report about syria. allow me to make several points. first of all, she enjoys part of china and no one can change that back. secondly, the weigle brothers and sisters are part of the chinese nationality. they are chinese citizens that need to abide by chinese or loss. and their freight law should be protected to the maximum extent and people's right to go to their mosques, for example, to worship in their own way fully protected by the japanese law. and for i think in she and john rod radicalization spill over from the 20 year old warning. i understand that being cases of terrorism extremism, separatism, you name it, and we need to get united as a nation to put these evil forces out of the equation in king john and the other

part of the work. let's focus on the mega trip that is but mega threat in cheating job. i think we are now faced with the job a resurgence of radicalization and terrorism in this time because the united states and nato are leaving us, that we set up a job for peace and stability in back 100. that's a shame and that will definitely be very, very damaging to countries the regions in that part of the world, including travel. shing jo, assuming the americans to stay in afghanistan, that suggested you want them to stay there. no, i called for the immediate withdrawal, the u. s. troops that nato troops get this done, but they need to leave behind a structure and the framework for peace and stability rather than just color and rum. ok, i mean, you know, this evidence will be mounting in the media will be talking all about the alleged genocide as it talked about in western countries of the g 7 happening in cornwall

dealing china will be looking to the g 20 in rome. and what does china think of this g 7 summit? what's your view? personal about the g 7 festival. i wish that you have some a, a good lunch in dealing with many emerge an urgent situations that economies are faced with. if they wanted, turn g 70 to a platform again, china does china, they will fail because no, why should the dodge in the and just see that by putting maximum pressure on china, china will back. no, china will stand very firm on matters of principle and defend very fiercely. it's fundamental interest and china will not allow any one g 7 or anyone else to push to turn out to the wall without consequences, china and need to strike back in the chinese people would be very much united behind the chinese government being defending the fundamental interest of china, china's rights of economic development is an alien level. right?

no one can expect to take away that right from the chinese people because otherwise, taking away the right of the chinese people's development, right, will be the biggest crime against humanity. well, we invite said geoffrey, 9 weeks ago. thank you. once again. thank you very much. and that's it for the show will be back on wednesday 2 years since nature nation media exploded about demonstrations in hong kong. the china accused of having links to the u. s. national endowment for democracy until then, keep in touch via social media and if you're watching on youtube, comment below and let us know what you think is the most likely origin of covered 90. ah. as a korea professionals bolt is much tougher on some than others. year old myer by everybody. so why would somebody believe me, i was just

a little girl. the price paid to, to, to achieve really was was to read in the paper this morning usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girl. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office. i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. there's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. is that documentary? see it on r t when i would show the wrong one. all right, i just don't need you to fill out this thing because the attitude an engagement equals the trail. when so many

find themselves will depart. we choose to look for common ground in the i don't know, i mean there are some steps in there who are rescuing the food that they were scabbing or where were rescuing resources that are still good. this is best buy march 21st, which is in 2 days. all these potatoes, paula panels, onions, all of these came from waste ground sources. this is great for me because i'm always looking for a way to give things away. dr. because the tax laws, you know, definitely do benefit the wealthier people and our society. so it makes sense for them to throw it out right off, rather than give it to somebody who could use it. and then that person is not going

to buy it. ah, twitter is angry risk recent blocking nigeria saying a free and open into that is an essential human rights. but at the same on the platform senses and the american uses gunning guy, why people that sort of psychologist at yale university told her class was her fantasy. nearly managed the audio of the lectures about outraged something. she branded a typical white reaction. i began my talk by saying that if i started talking about race in that way, i would be seen as the 3. the one and white people are just followed by the textbook, like the us chief medical advisor calls for the health records of 9 people in china including.