least 6 and a war armed with us weapons. what is the legacy of us biological warfare from nate bomb and vietnam, colon pals white test you but the un to the closure of for dietrich. we investigate the origins of cove in 1900, with a journalist who points to a us funded chinese lab. and as allegations of genocide in china against the weaker population ahead in a london tribunal. amid the new hand probe, we speak to the vice president of the center of china in globalization, to go to get china. story, all is more coming up in today's going underground, but 1st is the 54th through the middle east, 6, a war. as a reminder of the political implications of all our war, but is an unseen will being waged in our name one that is biological even if you don't believe in ca, and that might fix reef journalists after their poor records and w, m d, should we all be taking will notice of the lab lee hypothesis about the birth of corona virus. join me now from new jersey is woman new york time science editor nicholas wade. nicholas, thanks so much for coming on before we get to the actual article. do you think it's

being unfair? how arguably disinterested a piece you've written which was republish in the bulletin of atomic scientists how it's been treated as cold war propaganda. what i haven't seen that, i'm sorry that's been but the piece just tried to stick as closely as possible to assign to the fax remo policy. some of these, i'm just looking at whether sounded a fax lead and i would be sorry if anyone treated as propaganda, which is not what we always say. everything is as political on, on this program and certainly say hit certain political nerves. and you address towards the end of the piece. something that has been said in recent days, that part of the reason people want to say current advice didn't come from a lab is because trump points into it are yes, i think that was very important in per rising the debate. so as soon as trumpet said that she said about the qualification,

then everyone tell the story. politics instead of the science and debate was so her eyes that people forgot to look catherine the sanity facts. and this was one reason why the more than the story has totally been missed by the mainstream grass . now, i understand that you quoted russian, entrepreneur uri dagon, is the section of covey. let alone nicolay petrosky, i don't know very connected to russia showing how a suited size to was optimal for a human receptors. did i get you thinking as well? i yes, this is a very remark essay taking published just over a year ago. and he really laid out the story for anyone who wanted to follow his lead. he showed high and shake apart as far as somebody had, he didn't endorse the idea. that's been manipulation alarm. but he should clearly how it was very possible. no virus right from the start was very good at attacking

human cells. so this is peculiar because ours is when they jump from one animal species to another. they usually take quite a lot of time to adapt. a nice so many mutations to effect about new target. and you can see this happening in the case of soft warm that's the jamming, the 2 crates to fasten to, you know, about flushing mutations before. it had perfected its ability to attack humans. if you look at the to there's none of that taishan period right from the start. it's very distracting. human cells, very hard to explain on the natural immersion species. very easy to explain on the ladder creek idea because we know that she's child chinese. so bat power, she stopped and we, she was testing out not on humans. of course that would be unethical. but on human eyes my, that's my genetically engineered to carry the human protein in the cells of ours.

certain devices have been trained on human eyes. mike's, it's no problem to explain why they were so when jackie from the start to humans and, and we know from filings that this is the kind of research that was being carried out. you make it clear that there's no intermediate species that the bat, caves that have been talked him out of 1000 kilometers from whoo hon. but no one seems to be an infected on the way. i mean, i want to return to the politics of the in a 2nd, but i mean, you might, i don't know whether you can, even though we all think we're all epidemiologists now, what fewer and cleavage and human preferred code on czar. i don't know whether you can make a stab at explaining to our audience what they are and why they suggest that at least we must understand it's possible that corona virus was manipulated laboratory well, if you have our largest, the 1st thing that stands out about the stars is it has a tiny little bit of genetic information called the feeling cleavage side,

and it's driving the middle of a spike protein away. so happens the spike crushing in order to deploy once it's lashondra targets. it has to be caught into to say that the other prostate merge device is membrane without human cells. so here are included shy is what enables the virus to do that. and the reason why it's so sticks out like a sore thumb case. this is the if you look at the other vices in its family, which of course are becca viruses. there's no back, no bars that has this fear in cream shines. so this is important to gain new bits of genetic information by exchanging the chair with each other. this happens when to ours is the same. so when we combination acquired new properties by the combination. but the one thing you cannot require is some property that your

family does not possess. so it's very hard to explain or natural emergence. how could we to came by sphere in teams shine. but on the lab here it is easy because our just a decade, the way to size up a virus is but as you are in fact, human cells is to set up your unclean chart. and there it isn't just the right position in the south region. gina, so how disturbed are you? we invite the editor, the lancet on this show, that scientists were so quick to discount the lab leak theory even before further evidence had been emerged that they had been experimenting the way they had been in hand. and the these elements of the story on so easy to add up about 0 nordic transmission. well, i'm very concerned, but the end of the launch published is lesser. it turned out to be drafted by dr.

pizza dasha, who either enormous conflict of interest in this case because he finally money from the national institutes of health by his organization in new york to dr. young the she had to do our job. so if there had been any virus escaping from the lab, he is the, the principal investigation reforms. what potentially at fault? well, he would deny, obviously any wrongdoing or any funneling of money. these were grant to eco help or ego eco science. i mean, that's another element to this puzzle because if anyone thinks that you are a sign, a phobe, the money itself came from us taxpayers for the research we're talking about. well, i don't think dr. rush were denied chief of the money. i mean, it's a matter of records, he's the principal investigator on the ground from the national health. and he had

as his sub ground t doctors only, she must not dispute for the grant process, which obviously was awarded the grant from the us authorities. he was one of the broad naturalists to some extent, responsible what his socrates do with the money, but this conflict of interest which should have been declared on the launch, it letter was not declare, in fact, the letter n saying we had no cause to interest. well, the w h o apparently went further investigation. we've learned in the, in the past few days, we obviously invite the editor of the lancet on these no here to defend him self. but it therefore would suggest that because the united states taxpayer was involved and the chinese communist part you're involved. it's a perfect storm of wanting to deny the lovely theory straight away.

well, i think the motivation for denying the lactic theory straight away came from 2 se too small groups of barometers. so dr. bachelor publishing the launch, it was the 1st and the 2nd was a group publishing an initial medicine added by doctor christian anderson. so these 2 letters were denied underwriting lab me and said it was impossible of being manipulated to let us captions a narrative. they were not challenged by the mainstream press will not change. my son, france journalists, he'll be one of the united states as most important science journalists, arguably, is this common that they is there a class dimension to the whole story that people have very easily swayed to go with the establishment level of the scientists themselves. who briefing the journalists, there's a kind of herd mentality. there is a mentality among germans that so quite correct. i think sunshine is just

a different from other journalists. they tend to search the sources. so political journalist, when they say, well like so it's j, a sounds journalist take view. here's the great wisdom of scientists, convey it to the unwashed masses, or masters not realizing that sources have have about their own particular interest. in many cases, i'm not, i think you mean 2 kinds of political jonas, they're in fantasy. what do you think of the chinese response that the united states is better lead w h o people into for dietrich, we know the germ warfare laboratory, 50 miles, washington d. c hasn't been investigated and where is patients 0? i mean, where, where is the curiosity that you do show in this article about where patients 0 is because china clearly have some people out there. briefing people that look was the military games in the united states service men and women went over to hand

where his patients, 0 italy, spain the us where waiver for dietrich is just as much as the chinese do. you know that i didn't know? i think you were right, we didn't know who patients 0 was and it will be very good to find out. but we shine, you know, how it is not a not allowing anyone to see the kind of evidence we would need to determine that. no nora, us authorities allowing us to see what's happening there. i'm only see, i'm not allowed to go into the board and down the, the research facilities involved in bio warfare are off limits to journalists as well. what do you advise journalists do in a situation like this with a virus that has killed 3700000 people? well, i think we should encourage scientists to,

to reconsider the prosperity of lab lee, which has been steadfastly, ignored for the last 16 months. and if scientists in each country, particularly in groups like the royal society or the us national academy of sciences, what a set up groups to look into the laboratory can consider for the 1st time. and if they should conclude, as by asperger, lafferty is more like creation. here's a better explanation of evidence. i think that would for the 1st time, put pressure on chinese government to release the information that has worked out up until now. and for the 1st time, the chinese would face pressure to either cooperate with the rest of the world in resolving this problem or to become perhaps in the future will just very briefly do you think it be more difficult for you because of your previous work on race to get the article out there and accepted to make people question more about the origins

of corona virus. no, not at all. i wrote, if i may say an excellent book on the biological basis, raises a lot of criticism for that. but it's criticized by i hope group of scientists who could find a single error in the book and not a single ration statement. 100 senior. when i thought that was the point i was going to make, if you didn't have the facts, you're trying to build up as many people as you can to make it seem that by the way she was archie. you have something on the outside, the story about einstein who's told that a 100 scientists that signed the leisure proving him wrong. and he said, if i were wrong, one would have been enough time. so this book of mine did not in any way am piece this totally different subject or origin of source coding to niggers. wait, thank you. after the break, we go to the aging this weekend, vice president of this and the vagina. globalization began to get his take on theories of china, lab leak, killing millions, all this was coming up in by to,

of going underground as a korea professionals board is much tougher on some than others. she was hero my by everybody. so why would somebody believe me, i was just a little girl. the price paid to, to, to achieve really was, was to read in the paper this morning, usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girl. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office. i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. there's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. is that documentary? see it on our team. the

welcome back. in the 1st half of the show, we heard from foreman new york times ended in nicholas wade. his article on the origins of code 19 together with m. i 6 and the ca, if arguably, fuel renew delegations of a will hand lab leak. now let's go to beijing to speak to the vice president of the center china and dublin, zation. victor gouter, hear what china makes of it makes it. thanks so much for coming back on why. why a chinese authorities so angry about us u. k. secret intelligence agencies telling journalistic co we'd comes from a woo and lab labs. well, 1st of all, to trace the real origin of colby 19. we need to put science 1st and exclude all the conspiracy appear events. and then there is a process headed by the w h. o channel. cooperated with rachel from the very beginning when the panoramic was discovered in han and also grew field study is an

investigation stand by the rachel scientist, men from actually our american scientists. so let's follow the process rather than allow conspiracy theories to gain the upper head. crother allow me to make up because i think when you build up a global corporate 19 chronology, because now we know for sure that before the outbreak han with the benefit of hindsight they will discover is all the pharisee many other parts of the world. the japan, for example, it's really and more importantly in the united states. so i think we cannot just focus on china. for example, patient 0 for the spanish crew cannot be found being spain this back in the united states because the american soldier brought the problem to spake. that's more than

100 years ago. we need to use a similar mythology to methodology to really find the real origin, all the yeah. and so the w h o t head ro side normally says all i bought, this is remain on the table. and it requires further investigation whether it came from. and of course you mentioned the american scientist to back the chinese government's view about the origin of corona virus. well, it turns out that lab was funded by the us taxpayer, the one now a shadow is cost over it by nicholas wade. loon, m 6, c a and and ok. some journalists may just take their information from the intelligence agencies. geopolitical reasons, but it is a w h o that says we need to investigate china. i hope you will read the conclusion of the w h l scientific team very carefully. that's not. what's the conclusion all about? i think the actual team has already reached their conclusion. the assigned

a very little evidence to the so called the lafferty theory and they clean the much more closely to the natural origin from the animal world to mankind, for example. so i think we need to really take the w h o conclusion as it is rather then allow the intelligence agencies to do the job besides this. because otherwise, you just get a bunch of conspiracy theories. ok, well there's only a just says that needs to be more investigation. and for dietrich, despite what your foreign ministry spokesperson said about how that should be investigating the germ warfare laboratory in the washington dc. that's not going to happen. us authorities are not going to obviously do that if i mean, can i just ask if the lab is responsible for the leak? would china come clean about it? would china be to the meetings the truth? first of all, this is absolutely absurd because you are now saying something which is not proven,

which is we have no solid evidence which is based on very flimsy accusations alters there's the fear is therefore we can use that as the starting point. but it is the case and we have the details, obviously because it's american funded research in china, right. that will and laboratory. so we know that what they were doing and, and was experimentally using reverse genetic pseudo virus receptor binding acids via, i mean, you know, i'm not an epidemiologist, but it looks to me like exactly the kind of transfer we know the national and see to said that there was no evidence of the hospital surveillance or the epidemic. no intermediate species have been presented by chinese authorities. we know that there are no bath population has been produced as a sole source of the size to and china close down its databases. why would china close down its databases when these allegations emerge in the 1st place?

well, 1st of all, and i'm going to say several things. china and the united states, the 2 largest countries in the world. the 2 most powerful countries in the world's, traditionally for the past several decades, they have very extensive corporations in many, many as areas. and i would say the extent of their corporation is far beyond many people's imagination. that's number one. now in this particular case, china, us corporation, is also very extensive, a very in depth and for the study alleged in that paper is not confined to hon itself. it's done by many laboratories in the united states and i hope and to the u. s. government to use the same level of transparency that china has already opened up with cooperation with w h l. e in cooperating with the show and being plugging in all the data points there is already available in the united states into the global chronology so that

we will know for sure the real reasons for the fall. dietrich closure. the real reason for the cigarette problem. the similar case is which can now be traced back to koby 19 problem. so the major point is that we need to science above politics. all conspiracy theories you really feel that the where is the real origin of the ok? well, i mean the b, b, c is reporting a 41 year old in jenks, who has age 10 in 3 bird for 1st time ever human has got it. in the past few days. china is not revealing any details and actually what you just said, they're about to close cooperation with the united states, which was at this we had the oratory. why does china cooperate in this way with the united states? is it a remnant of colonialism? i mean, the, you know, it wasn't that long ago,

they bombed your embassy in the lava. you saw them. i mean, obviously things change a little bit in anchorage. the chinese foreign minister did start talking about black lives matter. when confronted by the blinking accusations, willis, cooperation go on with the united states as the united states, the, by the ministration accuses china of perhaps creating a virus that killed 3700000 people sofa. i think the united states, in reason such allegations is not building that case on the side of the case. i'm considering a on the so called intelligence report, which general motors thursday here is victory and bounds on that. it was, it was the u. s. funded laboratory and you can just say it's a conspiracy that hits the chinese communist party because it was the united states, but taxpayer was funding the research on the bat viruses all your information. the one number 3 was joint venture between china and france is very much up 3

dimensional stand because the french scientists were there helping the chinese colleagues to stop with this number 30 to start with. and one of the projects i understand involved the china, us corporations and such corporation. not the united states commerce, multiple areas in many, many different b as in high and in many other parts of china. and i think the world need to be prepared for china and the united states to get along with each other other than each other's growth. what you're saying now create the idea of a conspiracy. and some of our view is that there's a sino american conspiracy given this level of cooperation of a corona, virus research in, in china and in the united states. is that what is a know, y'all allegation is based on the wrong conclusion to start with. that is, the virus came from a leak from the laboratory. that's not proven. there is no hard evidence to back

that up. and i think that that's not generally embraced by the scientific community in the world. so let's be real, really all this. let's put science for us. let's really exclude the distorting facts. all the conspiracy theories. and let's call a spade a spade. in britain, in london, there's something called the we tribunal has britain sends its war ship the age of ms. elizabeth towards you. we have this. i've interviewed, said jeffrey, nicely, the very eminent jurist. what do you make of a tribunal here funded by on equal the world we go? congress jeffrey nice, of course, was at the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia and co authored an anti report about syria. allow me to make several points. first of all, she enjoys part of china and no one can change that back. secondly,

the weigle brothers and sisters are part of the chinese nationality. they are chinese citizens. they need to abide by chinese or loss. and their freight is law should be protected to the maximum extent and people's right to go to their mosques, for example, to worship in their way fully protected by the japanese law and father. i think in she and john, there are radicalization spill over from the 20 year old warning. i understand that being cases of terrorism extremism, separatism, you name it, and we need to get united as a nation to put these evil forces out of the equation in jean jones and the other part of the work. let's focus on the mega try. that is but mega threat being sheen job. i think we are now faced with a day job, a resurgence of radicalization and areas of being at this time because the united states and nato are leaving us, that we set up

a job for peace and stability in back 100. that's a shame, and that will definitely be very, very damaging to countries the regions in that part of the world, including charlotte sheen, jo, assuming the americans to stay in afghanistan, that suggested you want to stay there. no, i called for the immediate withdraw the u. s. troops that nato troops route guns done, but they need to leave behind a structure and the framework for peace and stability rather than just color and rum. ok, i mean, you know, this evidence will be mounting and the media will be talking all about the alleged genocide as it talked about in western countries. the g 7 happening in cornwall dealing china will be looking to the g 20 in rome. and what does china think of his g 7 summit was your view. personally about the g 7 festival. i wish that you have a some, a, a good large in dealing with many emerge an urgent situations that economies are

faced with. if they want to turn g 70 to a platform again, china does china, they will fail because no, why should the dodge in the undersea that by putting maximum pressure on china, china will back? no, china will stand very firm on matters of principle and defend very fiercely it's fundamental interest and china will not allow any one g 7 or anyone else to push to turn out to the wall without consequences. china need to strike back and the chinese people will be very much united behind the chinese government being defending the fundamental interest of china. china's rights of economic development is an alien level. right? no one can expect to take away that rise from the chinese people because otherwise taking away the right of the chinese people's development, right will be the biggest crime against humanity. well, we invite said geoffrey, 9 weeks ago. thank you. once again. thank you very much. and that's it for the show

will be back on wednesday, 2 years since no nation media exploded about demonstrations in hong kong. the china accused of having links to the u. s. national. endowment for democracy until then, keep in touch of social media. and if you're watching on youtube, comment below and let us know what you think is the most likely origin of covered 90. ah. when i was shot the wrong one, i'll just don't the room. yes, to see out the thing because after an engagement equals the trail went to many find themselves worlds apart and we choose to look for common ground

the. i don't know, i mean there are some steps in there were rescuing the food that they were not scabbing or were rescuing resources that are still good. this is best buy march 21st, which is in 2 days. all these potatoes, polynomials, onions, all of these came from waste round sources. this is great for me because i'm always looking for a way to give things away. dr. because the tax laws, you know, definitely do benefit the wealthier people and in our society. so that makes sense for them to throw it out right off, rather than give it to somebody who could use it. because then that person is not going to buy it. the

ah, twitter is angry over its recent blocking in nigeria saying a free and open into that is an essential human rights. the same time the platform senses it's american use is gunning down white people that for the psychologist, gal university, told her class was have fantasy universe story of the like to fall out rapes, something she branded a typical what reaction i began my talk by saying that if i start talking about race in this way, i'm going to be seen as a crazy psychotic one. and a white people are just followed. the textbook like trains collided in southern pakistan, killing 35 and injuring dozens. authorities fear the number of casualties may rise . the.