account, also, the west often uses the issue of human rights is a political weapon. now, being against the west. the news i'm actually return say we're going underground, taking you out of the mainstream media shallows into the depths of the troops coming up in the show on the 54 that of us in the middle east pick today. war armed with us weapons. what is the legacy of us biological warfare from nate bomb and vietnam to colon pals white test you but the un to the closure of for dietrich. we investigate the origins of covered 1900, with a journalist who points to

a us funded chinese lab. and as allegations of genocide in china, against the week of population ahead in the london tribunal, amid the new hand probe, we speak to the vice president of the center of china in globalization to go to get china southern story. all the more coming up. and today's going underground, but 1st is the $54.00 out of us through the middle east. 6, a war is a reminder of the geopolitical implications of all at war. that is an unseen will being waged in our name one that is biological. even if you don't believe and ca, and that might fix reef journalists after their poor records and w. m d, should we all be taking more notice of the lab lee hypothesis about the birth of corona virus. join me now from new jersey is wilma new york time science editor nicholas wade. nicholas, thanks so much for coming on before we get to the actual article. do you think it's been unfair how arguably disinterested the piece you've written which was republish in the bulletin of atomic scientists how it's been treated as cold war propaganda. what i haven't seen that i'm sorry it has been but the piece just tried to stick as

closely as possible to sandy the facts. remo politics, some of these, i'm just looking at whether sounds of a fax lead and i would be sorry if anyone treats does propaganda, which is not what we always say. everything is as political on, on this program. and certainly it's a hit certain political nerves and you address at the end of the piece, something that has been said in recent days, that part of the reason people want to say current advice didn't come from a lab is because trump once into the are years i think that was very important in per rising. the debate servicers trumpet said that when she said about the qualification, then everyone tells to the politics instead of the science and debate was so her eyes, the people forgot to look catholic. the sanity facts. and this was one reason why

she was in the yeah, the story has totally been missed by the mainstream press. now, i understand that you quoted russian entrepreneur uri dagon, his dissection of covey. let alone nicolay petrosky, i don't know very connected to russia showing how a suited to is optimal for human receptors. did i get you thinking as well? yes, this is a very remark or essay taking published just over a year ago. and he really laid out the story for anyone who wanted to follow his lead. he showed high in for jacob pod as far as my assembly. he didn't endorse the idea. it's been manipulation a lab. but he should clearly how it was very possible virus right from the start was very good at attacking human cells. so this is peculiar because when they jump from one animal species to another, they usually take quite a lot of time to jacks of a nice. so many mutations to effect about new target. and you can see this

happening in the case of soft warm that's the, the 2 greatest to pass into, you know, about flesh immunizations before it had perfected its ability to attack humans. if you look at koby to there's, there's none of that adaptation period right from the start, it's very good. it's jack young cells do a hard to explain on the natural emergencies. very easy to explain on the ladder creek idea because we know that she's child chinese so back power. she stopped me. she was testing of ours is not on humans. of course that would be unethical. but on human eyes my, that's my genetically engineered to carry the human protein in the cells with their hours. certain devices have been trained on you and i might, it's no problem to explain why they were so when jackie from the start to humans and, and we know from filings that this is the kind of research that was being carried

out. you make it clear that there is a new intermediate species that the bat caves that have been talked him out of 1000 kilometers from wu hun, but no one seems to be infected on the way. i mean, i want to return to the politics of the in a 2nd, but i mean, you might, i don't know whether you can, even though we all think we're all epidemiologist now what fewer and cleavage and human preferred code on czar. i don't know whether you can make a stab at explaining to our audience what they are and why they suggest that at least we must understand it's possible that corona virus was manipulated in the origin. i will, if you have our largest, the 1st thing that stands out about the stars is it has a tiny, slightly genetic information called the feeling cleavage side. and it's right in the middle of a spy protein away. so happens the spike question in order to deploy, once it's lashawn on top,

it has to be cut into 2 said that the other possible merge the biases membrane without human cells. so here included shy is what enables the virus to do that. and the reason why this so sticks out, i saw some indication of this bar is the if you look at the prices in the family, i wish you a call back or viruses. there's no subject of ours that has is fear in cambridge science. so this is important game new bits of genetic information by exchanging the chair with each other. this happens in 2 hours is the same. so when we combination to acquire new properties by the combination for the one thing, you can also use some property that your family does not possess. so it's very hard to spain on natural emergence. how could we to came last year and shine but on levity here it is easy because our just a decade,

the way to spies viruses. but as you are in fact, human cells is to inside of your clean chart. and there it isn't. just the right position in the south beach in june. so how disturbed are you? we invite the editor of the lands on this show that scientists were so quick to discount the lab leak theory even before further evidence had been emerged that they had been experimenting the way they had been in hand. and these element of the story on so easy to add up about to an arctic transmission. well, i'm very concerned that the end of the launching this letter, it turned out to be drafted by dr. pizza dasha, who has enormous conflict of interest in this case. because he's family money from the national interest of health by his organization in new york to dr. young the

she had to do our job. so if there had been any advice escaping from her lap, he is the principal investigation. the phones were potentially at fault. well, he would deny, obviously, any wrong doing or any funneling of money. these were grant to eco help or ego eco science. i mean that that's another element to this puzzle, because if anyone thinks that you are a sign, a phobe, the money itself came from us taxpayers for the research we're talking about. well, i don't think dr. rush were denied keys of the money. i miss the matter record. he's the principal investigator on the ground from the national health and he had as his sub ground t doctors only she, i mean that's not mass not to dispute for the grant process, which obviously was awarded the grant from the us authorities. he was worried about

the nationalist to some extent responsible what his sub grantees do with the money . but this conflict of interest, which should have been declared on the launch, it letter was not declared, in fact, the letter n saying we did that and then call some interest. well the w h o apparently went further investigation. we've learned in the, in the past few days, we obviously invite the editor of the lancers on these no here to defend him self. but it therefore would suggest that because the united states taxpayer was involved and the chinese communist part, you're involved. it's a perfect storm of wanting to deny the lovely theory straight away. well, i think the motivation for denying the lactic theory straight away came from to say to small groups of biologists. so dr. bachelor publishing the launch,

it was the for us. and the 2nd was a group publishing an initial medicine by dr. christian anderson. so these 2 letters were denied underwriting lab me and said it was impossible of being manipulated to let us capture the narrative. they will not challenge by the mainstream press do not challenge my son, sam journalists, you be one of the united states as listen board and science journalists, arguably, is this common that they is there a class dimension to the whole story that people have very easily swayed to go with the establishment level of the scientists themselves. who briefing the journalists, there's a kind of herd mentality. there is a mentality. one journalist that's quite correct. i think sunshine is just a different from other journalists. they tend to launch a sketch of our sources. so political journalist, when they say, well lies, jones, j sounds, journalist, small take the view. here's the great wisdom of scientists,

convey it to the unwashed masses, or masters not realizing that sources have have about their own particular interest. in many cases, i'm not. i think you mean to kind of political journalist in fans. what do you think of the chinese response that the united states a better lead w h o people into for dietrich, we know the germ warfare laboratory, 50 miles, washington d. c. hasn't been investigated and where is patients 0? i mean where, where is the curiosity that you do show in this article about where patients 0 is because china clearly have some people out there. briefing people that look, there was the military games in the united states service men and women went over to hand where his patients, 0 italy, spain, the us where where i am 42 is just as a diversion the chinese i how do you know that?

i didn't know, i think you're right, we didn't know who patients 0 was and it would be very good to find out which is not a not allowing anyone to see the kind of evidence we would need to determine that. no nora, us authorities allowing us to see what's happening there. i'm only see, i'm not allowed to go into the board and down the, the research facilities involved in the bio warfare are off limits to journalists as well. what do you advise journalists do in a situation like this with a virus that has killed 3700000 people? well, i think we should encourage scientists to, to reconsider the possibility of lab lee, which has been steadfastly, ignored for the last 16 months. and it's time to send each country particularly so groups like the royal society or the us national academy of sciences. what is set

up groups to look engine laboratory can considered for the 1st time. and if they should conclude as my asperger, lafferty is more like creation. here's the better explanation of evidence. i think that would for the 1st time put pressure on chinese government to release the information that has worked out up until now. and for the 1st time, the chinese would face pressure to either cooperate with the rest of the world in resolving this problem or to become perhaps in the future will just very briefly do you think it be more difficult for you because of your previous work on race to get the article out there and accepted to make people question more about the origins of corona virus. no, not at all. i wrote, if i may say an excellent book on the biological basis, raises a lot of criticism for them. was criticized by hope group of scientists who could find a single error in the book and not

a single ration statement. 100 senior. when i thought i was the point has to make, if you didn't have the facts, you're trying to build up. as many people as you can to make it seem that by the way she was archie. you have something on the outside the story about einstein who's told the 100 scientists and signed the leisure proving him wrong. and he said, if i were wrong, one would have been enough to answer this book of mine did not. and anyway, m p 's, this totally different subject of the arch, soft covey to nicholas wade. thank you. you know, after the break, we go to aging this weekend, vice president of the center for china. globalization began to get his take on theories of china, lab leak, killing millions. all this was coming up and by 2 of going undergrad as a korea professionals board is much tougher on some than others. are year old myers

by everybody. so why would somebody believe me, i was just a little girl. the price paid to, to, to achieve really was was how to read in the paper this morning. usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girl. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office. i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. there's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. is that documentary? see it on our tea. welcome back. in the 1st half of the show, we heard from former new york times and it nicholas wade, his article on the origins of covered 19 together with m. i 6 and the ca, arguably fuel renew, delegations of a will hand lab leak. now let's go to beijing to speak to the vice president of the

center for china and verbalization gao to hear what china makes of it. thank you. thank so much for coming back on why. why a chinese authorities so angry about the u. s. u. k. secret intelligence agency, attending journalist and co, we'd come from a will and lab labs. well, 1st of all, to trace the real region of covey, 19 adamic. we need to put science 1st, and that excludes all the conspiracy appear. and then there is a process headed by the w h o channel cooperated with w h o from the very beginning. when the panoramic was discovered in han and also through the field that is an investigation by the rachel scientist, men from actually our american scientists. so let's follow the process rather than allow the conspiracy theories to gain the up ahead. crother allow me to make a proposal. i think when you build up a global corporate 19 chronology,

because now we know for sure that before the outbreak han with the benefit of hindsight they will discover is all the pharisee many other parts of the world. the japan, for example. it's really and more importantly in the united states. so i think we cannot just focus on china. for example, the patient 0 or the spanish crew cannot be found in spain this back in the united states because the american soldier brought the problem to spake. that's more than 100 years ago. we need to use a similar mythology to methodology to really find the real origin of the yeah. and so the w h o ted ro side. norma says, all i bought, this is remain on the table and it requires further investigation whether it came from. and of course, you mentioned the american scientist to back the chinese government view about the origin of corona virus. well, it turns out that lab was funded by the us taxpayer,

the one now a shadow is cost over it by nicholas wade lune am i think, ca and, and okay. some journalists may just take their information from the intelligence agencies. geopolitical reasons, but it is a w h o that says we need to investigate china. i hope you will read the conclusion of the w h l scientific team very carefully. that's not. what's the conclusion all about? i think the w h old team has already reached their conclusion. the assigned a very little evidence to the so called the library theory. and they believe that much more closely to the not true origin from the animal world to mankind, for example. so i think we need to really take that w h a conclusion as it is rather then allow the intelligence agencies to do the job

besides this. because otherwise, you just get a bunch of conspiracy theories. ok, well there's only a just says that needs to be more investigation. and for dietrich, despite what your foreign ministry spokesperson said about how that should be investigated, the germ warfare laboratory near washington dc. that's not going to happen. us authorities are not going to obviously do that if i mean, can i just ask if the will hand lab is responsible for the leak? would china come clean about it? would china be to flight and meetings the truth? first of all, this is absolutely absurd because you are now saying something which is not proven which is which has no solid evidence, which is based on very flimsy accusations. all there is the fear is therefore we can use that as the starting point, but it is the case and we have the details, obviously because it's american funded research in china, right. that will and laboratory. so we know that what they were doing and was

experimentally using reverse genetic pseudo virus receptor binding assa via, i mean, you know, i'm not an epidemiologist, but it looks to me like exactly the kind of transfer we know the national and see to said that there was no evidence of the hospital surveillance or the epidemic. no intermediate species have been presented by chinese authorities. we know that there are no bath population has been produced as a sole source of the size to and china close down its databases. why would china close down its databases when these allegations emerge in the 1st place? well, 1st of all, i'm going to say several things. china and the united states, the 2 largest countries in the world. the 2 most powerful countries in the world's, traditionally for the past several decades, they have very extensive corporations in many, many as areas. and i would say the extent of their corporation is far beyond many

people's imagination. that's number one. now in this particular case, china, us corporation, is also very extensive, a very in depth and for the study alleged in that paper is not confined to hon itself. it's done by many laboratories in the united states and i hope and i to the u. s. government to use the same level of transparency that china has already opened up with cooperation with w h l. e in cooperating with the public show and being plugging in all the data. so there is already available being of the united states into the global chronology. so that we will know for sure the real reasons for the fall, dietrich kotia, the real reason for the cigarette problem. the similar case is which can now be traced back to koby 19 problem. so the major point is that we need to science above politics or conspiracy,

or is really feeling that the where is the real origin of the ok? well, i mean the b, b, c is reporting a 41 year old in jenks who has age 10 in 3 bird flew 1st time ever human has got it . there's in the past few days, china is not revealing any details. and actually what you just said, they're about to close cooperation with the united states, which was at this we had in the oratory. why does china cooperate in this way with the united states? is it a remnant of colonialism? i mean, nina, it wasn't that long ago, they bombed your embassy in the lava. you saw them. i mean, obviously things change a little bit in anchorage. the chinese foreign minister did start talking about black lives matter. when confronted by the blinking accusations, willis, cooperation go on with the united states as the united states, the, by the ministration accuses gender of perhaps creating a virus that killed 3 point. 7000000 people sofa. i think the united states in

reason such allegations is not building that case on the side step in the that case i'm considering a on the so called intelligence report, which general motors thursday here is victory and bounds on that was it was the u. s. funded laboratory and you can just say it's a conspiracy that hits the chinese communist party because it was the united states, but taxpayer was funding the research on the bat, viruses for your information. the number 3 was joint venture between china and frauds. it is very much 3 dimensional standard because the french scientists were there helping the chinese colleagues to stop with this laboratory to start with. and one of the projects i understand you involved, the china, us corporations, and such corporation for job, not the united states, commerce, multiple areas, many, many different b as in high and in many states to get along with each other other,

then you want each other's growth what you're saying now creates the idea of a conspiracy. and some of a view is that there's a sino american conspiracy given this level of cooperation of a corona virus research in, in china and in the united states is that will use a know, y'all allegation is based on the wrong conclusion. to start with. that is, the virus came from a leak from the laboratory. that's not proven. there is no hot evidence to back that up. and i think that's not generally embraced by the scientific community in the world. so let's be real, really all this. let's put science for us. let's really exclude the distorting facts. all the conspiracy theories. and let's call a spade a spade. in britain, in london, there's something called the we tribunal has britain sends its worship. the age of

miss elizabeth towards you. we have this. i've interviewed to jeffrey nicely, the very eminent to jurist. what do you make of a tribunal here funded by on the go the world we go. congress jeffrey nice of course, was at the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia and go to the n t s a report about syria. allow me to make several points. first of all, she enjoys part of china and no one can change that back. secondly, the weigle brothers and sisters are part of the chinese nationality. they are chinese citizens. they need to abide by chinese or loss. and their freight law should be protected to the maximum extent and people's right to go to their mosques, for example, to worship in their own way fully protected by the japanese law. and for i think in she and john rod radicalization spill over from the 20 year old warning. i

understand that being cases of terrorism extremism, separatism, you name it, and we need to get united as a nation to put these evil forces out of the equation in gene john and the other part of the work. let's focus on the mega trip that is but mega threat, inching job. i think we are now faced with the job a resurgence of radicalization and areas of being at this time because the united states and nato are leaving out get this done without setting up a job for peace and stability in back 100. that's a shame and that will definitely be very, very damaging to countries the regions in that part of the world, including travel. shing jo, assuming the americans to stay in afghanistan, that suggested that he wanted to stay there. no, i called for the needed withdraw the u. s. troops that nato troops get this done, but they need to leave behind a structure and the framework for peace and stability rather than just color and

rum. ok, i mean, you know, this evidence will be mounting in the media will be talking all about the alleged genocide as it talked about in western countries. the g 7 happening in cornwall dealing china will be looking to the g 20 in rome. and what does china think of this g 7 summit? what's your view? personal about the g 7 festival. i wish that you have a some, a, a good large in dealing with many emerge an urgent situations that economies are faced with. if they wanted, turn g 70 to a platform again, china does china, they will fail because no, why should the dodge in the undersea that by putting maximum pressure on china, china will back know china will stand very firm on matters of principle and defend very fiercely it's fundamental interest and china will not allow any one g 7 or anyone else to push to turn out to the wall without consequences,

china and need to strike back in the chinese people would be very much united behind the chinese government being defending the fundamental interest of china, china's rights of economic development is an alien level. right? no one can expect to take away that right from the chinese people because otherwise taking away the right of the chinese people's development, right, will be the biggest crime against humanity. well, we invite said geoffrey, 9 weeks ago. thank you. once again. thank you very much. and that's it for the show will be back on wednesday 2 years since no nation media exploded about demonstrations in hong kong. the china accused of having links to the u. s. national endowment for democracy until then, keep in touch with social media and if you're watching on youtube, comment below and let us know what you think is the most likely origin off covered 90. ah.

when i would show the wrong one, i'll just don't. the room. yes, to see out the thing because the after an engagement equal betrayal, when so many find themselves will depart and we choose to look for common ground. in this i was a super said, he's like, case studies that make it to the transformations over the past decade. advanced mega project, most go in for him to and to and he won the largest international congress on make . it said he development headlines right here on

twitter cried foul over. it's recent walking in nigeria saying a free and open internet is an essential human. right? all of that, while the platform routinely sensor american youth, the israel security service, warns of potential violent unrest, harlem and prepared to vote on a new governing coalition, ultimately speaking to replace the prime minister benjamin netanyahu and gunning down the white people. that's what a psychiatrist at jail university has told her class was her fantasy newly emerged audio. electra has spoken outraged something she brands a typical wife reaction i began my talk by.