the time actually returns here, we're going underground, taking you out of the mainstream media shallows into the depths of the truth coming up in the show on the 54 of us in the middle east, 6 day war to us weapons. what is the legacy of us biological warfare from nate bomb and vietnam to call them pals white test 2, but the un to the closure of for the trick, we investigate the origins of covered 1900, with a journalist who points to a us funded chinese lab and is allegations of genocide in china against the week of population in the london tribunal. amid the new probe, we speak to the vice president of the center of china and globalization. to go to get china citing the story. all is more coming up in today's going underground, but 1st is the 54 of us through the middle east. 60 war as a reminder of the geopolitical implications of all out war. that is an unseen will being waged in our name one that is biological, even if you don't believe a ca, and that might fix reef journalists after their poor records and w. m d,

should we all be taking more notice of the lab, lee hype offices about the birth of corona virus, to me now from new jersey is woman new york. time science editor, nicholas wade. nicholas, thanks so much for coming on before we get to the actual article. do you think it's being unfair? how arguably disinterested a piece you written which was republish in the bulletin of atomic scientists how it's been treated as cold war propaganda. what i haven't seen that i'm sorry, it has been, but the piece just tried to stick as closely as possible to assign to the facts. remo policy, some of these, i'm just looking at whether sam to the facts lead and i will be sorry if anyone treated as propaganda, which is not what we always say. everything is as political on, on this program and certainly hit certain political nerves. and you address towards the end of the piece, something that has been said in recent days, that part of the reason people want to say current advice didn't come from

a lab is because trump once into it or yes, i think that was same in per rising the debate, so as soon as trumpet said that she said about the qualification, then everyone tell the story. politics instead of the science and debate was so her eyes that people forgot to look catherine the sanity facts. and this was one reason why the more than the story has totally been missed by the mainstream grass . now, i understand that, you quoted russian, entrepreneur uri dagon, is the section of covey. let alone nikolai petrosky. i don't know very connected to russia showing how a suited size to was optimal for a human receptors. did i get you thinking as well? i yes, this is a very remark essay taking published just over a year ago. and he really laid out the story for anyone who wanted to follow his

lead. he showed high in for jacob pod as far as he didn't endorse the idea. this is been manipulation of lab, but he should clearly how it was very possible. no virus right from the start was very good at attacking human cells. so this is peculiar because when they jump from one animal species to another, they usually take quite a lot of time to adapt of a nice so many mutations to effect about new target. and you can see this happening in the case of saw why we have the 2 crates to fasten to, you know, about flushing mutations before it had perfect. it gets ability to attack humans. if you look at koby to there's none of that taishan period right from the start, it's very good. it's jack and healing cells. very hard to explain on the natural merchant species. very easy to explain the elaborate id because we know that she's

child chinese, so bass power stopped asia and we, she was testing of ours is not on humans. of course that would be unethical. but on human eyes my, that's my genetically engineered to carry the human protein in the cells of ours. so to vice has been trained on you and i my, it's no problem to explain why they were so when jackie from the start to humans and, and we know from filings, this is the kind of research that was being carried out. you make it clear that there is no intermediate species that the bat, caves that have been talked him out of 1000 kilometers from whoo hon. but no one seems to be an infected on the way. i mean, i want to return to the politics of the in a 2nd, but i mean, you might, i don't know whether you can, even though we all think we're all epidemiologists. now what fewer in cleavage and human preferred code on tsar, i don't know whether you can make a stab at explaining to our audience what they are and why they suggest that at

least we must understand it's possible that corona virus was manipulated laboratory . i will, if you have our largest, the 1st thing that stands out about as far as is it has a tiny little bit of genetic information called the feeling cleavage side. and it's right in the middle of respite protein. what happens the spike question in order to deploy, once it's lashondra tabi, it has to be cut into 2 said that the other merge device is membrane without human cells. so and greeted shy is what enables the virus to do that. and the reason why the so sticks out, i saw some indication of this bar is the if you look at the prices in its family, i wish you a call back or viruses. there's no bank of ours that has this fear in shines. so this is important game new bits and genetic information by exchanging the chair

with each other. this happens in 2 hours is the same. so when we combination require lots new properties by the combination. but the one thing you cannot o'clock is some property that your family does not possess. so it's very hard to explain, are natural emergence, how could we to came last year and shine. but on the laboratory here, it is easy because our just a decade, the way to spice viruses. but as you are in fact, human cells is to set up your grieving chart. and there it isn't just the right position in the south beach in june. so how disturbed are you? we invite the editor of the lands on this show that scientists were so quick to discount the lab leak theory. even before further evidence had been emerged

that they had been experimenting the way they had been in hand. and these elements of the story on so easy to add up about 0 nordic transmission. well, i'm very concerned that the average of the launches amish this letter. it turned out to be drafted by doctor pizza dasha, who lives enormous conflict of interest in this case. because he's family money from the national interest of health by his organization in new york to dr. young the she had to have to do our job. so if there had been any advice escaping from lap, he is the the principal investigation, the funds were potentially at fault. well, he would deny, obviously any wrong doing or any funneling of money. these were grant to eco help re go eco science. i mean that that's another element to this puzzle because if anyone thinks that you are a signer phobe,

the money itself came from us taxpayers for the research we're talking about. well, i don't think dr. rush were denied. she's of the money. i miss the matter records. he's the principal investigator on the ground from the national health and he had, as he sub ground t doctors only she, i mean that's not mass not to dispute for the grant process, which obviously was awarded the grant from the us authorities. he was one of the broad naturalists to some extent, responsible what his socrates do with the money. but this conflict of interest which should have been declared on the lancet last year, was not the correct and the letter n saying we did no call to interest. well, the w h o apparently went to further investigation. we've learned in the, in the past few days, we obviously invite the editor of the lancet on these no here to defend him self. but it therefore would suggest that because the united states taxpayer was involved

and the chinese communist while you're involved. it's a perfect storm of wanting to deny the lovely theory straight away. well, i think the motivation for denying the theory straight away came from two's 2 small groups of auditors. so dr. bachelor publishing the lunch that was the 1st and the 2nd was a group publishing an initial medicine added by doctor christian anderson. so these 2 letters, which denied underwriting gladly and said it was impossible that have been manipulated, is to let us capture the narrative. they will not challenge by the mainstream press do not challenge my son signs. journalists, you be one of the united states as most important science journalists, arguably, is this common that they is their class dimension to the whole story that people

have very easily swayed to go with the establishment level of the scientists themselves. who are briefing the journalists, there's a kind of herd mentality. there is a mentality among germans that so quite correct. i think sunshine is just a different from other journalists. they tend to search the sources. so political journalist, when they say well applies, so it's j a sounds journalist. take the view. here's the great wisdom of scientists, convey it to the unwashed masses or masters, realizing that sources have, have about their own particular interest. in many cases, i'm not i think you mean to kind to political janice, there in fans. what do you think of the chinese response that the united states a better lead w h o people into for dietrich, we know the germ warfare laboratory, 50 miles, washington d. c hasn't been investigated and where is patients 0?

i mean, where, where is the curiosity that you do show in this article about where patients 0 is because china clearly have some people out there. briefing people that look was the military games in the united states service men and women went over to hand where his patients, 0 italy, spain the us where where i have or for dietrich is just as i say, diversity, the chinese i do, you know that i didn't know, i think you're right, we didn't know who patients 0 was and it will be very good to find out which i mean it is not a not allowing anyone to see the kind of evidence we would need to determine that. no nora, us authorities allowing us to see what's happening there. i'm only see, i'm not allowed to go into the board and down the, the research facilities involved in the bio warfare are off limits to journalists

as well. what do you advise journalists do in a situation like this with a virus that has killed 3700000 people? well, i think we should encourage scientists to, to reconsider the possibility of lab lee, which has been steadfastly, ignored for the last 15 months. and if scientists in each country, particularly as groups like the royal society or the us national academy of sciences, what is set up groups to look engine levity, can consider it for the 1st time. and if they should conclude as my asperger, lafferty is more like creation. here's the better explanation of evidence. i think that was for the 1st time pressure on chinese government to reduce the information that has worked out up until now. and for the 1st time, chinese would face pressure to either cooperate with the rest of the world in resolving this problem or to become perhaps associated with future will just very

briefly do you think it be more difficult for you because of your previous work on race to get the article out there and accepted to make people question more about the origins of corona virus. no, not at all. i wrote, if i may say an excellent book on the biological basis is a lot of criticism for that. but it's criticized by a whole group of scientists who could find a single error in the book and not a single ration statement. 100 senior. when i thought that was the point i was going to make, if you didn't have the facts, you try and build up as many people as you can to make it seem that by the way she was archie. you have something on the side of the story about einstein who's told that a 100 scientists that signed the leisure proving him wrong. and he said, if i were wrong, one would have been enough to answer this book as mine did not in any way, am piece this totally different subject or arjun. i'm sorry. coby to nicholas wade

. thank you. after the break, we go to major this weekend, vice president of the scientific china and globalization began to get his take on theories of the china lab leak, killing millions. all this was coming by to of going undergrad the as a korea professionals, bolt is much tougher. on some than others year old myer by everybody. so why would somebody believe me, i was just a little girl. the price paid to, to, to achieve really was was how to read in the paper this morning. usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girls. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office,

i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. there's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. is that documentary? i see it on our tea. welcome back. in the 1st half of the show we heard from former new york times ended in nicholas wade. his article on the origins of cove in 1900, together with m i 6 and the ca, arguably fuel renew, delegations of a will hand lab leak. now let's go to beijing to speak to the vice president of the center china and dublin zation. victor gouter, hear what china makes of it. thanks. thanks so much for coming back on why. why a chinese authorities so angry about us u. k. secret intelligence agencies having journalistic co we'd comes from a woo and lab labs. well, 1st of all, to trace the real region of covey 19,

we need to put science 1st, and that excludes all the conspiracy appear events and then there is a process headed by the w. h. o channel. cooperated with rachel from the very beginning when the panoramic was discovered in han and also through the field that is an investigation by the rachel scientist, men from actually our american scientists. so let's follow the process rather than allow the conspiracy theories to gain the up ahead. crother allow me to make a proposal. i think when you build up a global corporate 19 chronology, because now we know for sure that before the outbreak of han with the benefit of hindsight they will discover is all the pharisee many other parts of the world. the japan, for example, from italy, and more importantly in the united states. so i think we cannot just focus on china

. for example, patient 0 for the spanish crew cannot be found in spain this back in the united states because the american soldier brought the problem to spake. that's more than 100 years ago. we need to use a similar mythology to methodology to really find the real origin of the yeah. and so the w h o ted ro side. norma says, all i bought, this is remain on the table and it requires further investigation whether it came from. and of course, you mentioned the american scientist to back the chinese government's view about the origin of corona virus. well, it turns out that lab was funded by the us taxpayer, the one now a shadow is cost over it by nicholas wade. loon, m 6, c a and and ok. some journalists may just take their information from the intelligence agencies. geopolitical reasons, but it is a w h o that says we need to investigate china. i hope you will read the conclusion

of the w h l scientific team very carefully. that's not. what's the conclusion all about? i think the actual team has already reached their conclusion. the assigned a very little evidence to the so called the lapse theory. and they clean the much more closely to the natural origin from the animal world to mankind, for example. so i think we need to really take the w h o conclusion as it is rather then allow the intelligence agencies to do the job besides this. because otherwise, you just get a bunch of conspiracy theories. ok, well they don't just says the needs to be more investigation. and for dietrich, despite what your foreign ministry spokesperson said about how that should be investigated, the germ warfare laboratory and washington d. c. that's not going to happen. us authorities are not going to obviously do that

if i mean, can i just ask if the lab is responsible for the leak? would china come clean about it? would china be to flight and meetings the truth? first of all, this is absolutely absurd because you have now said something which is not proven which is which has no solid evidence, which is based on very flimsy accusations. auctions various areas. therefore, we can use that as the starting point, but it is the case. and we have the details, obviously because it's american funded research in china, right. that will and laboratory. so we know that what they were doing and was to experimental using reverse genetic pseudo virus receptor binding as a via, i mean, you know, i'm not an epidemiologist, but it looks to me like exactly the kind of transfer. we know the national institutes of health said that there was no evidence of the hospital surveillance. the epidemic, no intermediate species have been presented by chinese authorities. we know that

there are no bath population has been produced as a sole source of the size to and china close down its databases. why would china close down its databases when these allegations emerge in the 1st place? well, 1st of all, i'm going to say several things. china and the united states, the 2 largest countries in the world. the 2 most powerful countries in the world's, traditionally for the past several decades. they have very extensive corporations in many, many as areas. and i would say the extent of their corporation is far beyond many people's imagination. that's number one. now, in this particular case, china, us corporation, is also very extensive, a very in depth. and for the study alleged in that paper is not confined to hon itself. it's done by many laboratories in the united states and i hope and i to the u. s. government to use the same level of transparency that china has

already opened up with cooperation with w h l e in. cooperate with the public show and being plugging in all the data lines there is already available being of the united states into that global chronology so that we will know for sure the real reasons for the fall. dietrich kotia, the real reason for the cigarette problem. the similar case is which can now be traced back to koby 19 problem. so the major point is that we need to science above politics because there is really feel that the where is the real origin of the ok? well, i mean the b, b, c is reporting a 41 year old in junk who has age 10 in 3 bird for the 1st time ever human has got it. there's in the past few days. china is not revealing any details. and actually, what you just said, they're about to close cooperation with the united states,

which was at this will and the oratory. why does china cooperate in this way with the united states? is it a remnant of colonialism? i mean, the, you know, it wasn't that long ago, they bombed your embassy in the lava. you saw them. i mean, obviously things change a little bit in anchorage. the chinese foreign minister did start talking about black lives matter. when confronted by the blinking accusations, really, cooperation go on with the united states as the united states, the, by the ministration accuses china of perhaps creating a virus that killed 3700000 people so far. i think the united states in reason such allegations is not building that case on the side step. in the case i'm considering a on the so called intelligence report, which general motors thursday here is victory and bounds on that. it was, it was the us funded laboratory and you can just say it's a conspiracy that hits the chinese government is but because it was the united

states, but taxpayer was funding the research on the bat, viruses for your information. the number 3 was joint venture between china and france. it is very much of 3 dimensional stand because the french scientists were there helping the chinese colleagues to stop with this number 30 to start with . and one of the projects i understand involved the china, us corporations, and such corporation. john of the united states covers multiple areas, many, many different b as in high and in many other parts of china. and i think the world need to be prepared for china and the united states to get along with each other other. then each of those broach what you're saying now creates the idea of a conspiracy. and some of a view is that there's a sino american conspiracy given this level of cooperation of a corona, virus research in, in china and in the united states. is that what is a know,

y'all allegation is based on the wrong conclusion to start with. that is, the virus came from a leak from the laboratory. that's not proven. there is no hard evidence to back that up. and i think that that's not generally embraced by the scientific community in the world. so let's be real, really all this. let's put science for us. let's really exclude the distorting facts. all the conspiracy theories. and let's call a spade a spade. in britain, in london, there's something called the we good tribunal has britain sends its war ship the age of ms. elizabeth towards you. we have this, i've interviewed jeffrey nice. he's of very eminent to jurist. what do you make of a tribunal here funded by some equal the world we go? congress jeffrey nice of course, was at the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia and co

authored an anti acid report about syria allow me to make several points. first of all, she enjoys part of china and no one can change that fact. secondly, the weigle brothers and sisters are part of the chinese nationality. they are chinese citizens. the need to buy chinese or loss and their freight law should be protected to the maximum extent and people's right to go to their mosques, for example, to worship in their own way. fully protected by the japanese law. and for i think in she and john rod radicalization spill over from the 20 year old warning. i understand that being cases of terrorism extremism, separatism, you name it, and we need to get united as a nation to put these evil forces out of the equation in gene john and the other

part of the world. let's focus on the mega trap that is but mega threat being cheating job. i think we are now faced with the job a resurgence of radicalization and areas of being at this time because the united states and nato are leaving out get this done without setting up a job for peace and stability in back 100. that's a shame, and that will definitely be very, very damaging to countries the regions in that part of the world, including charlotte sheen, jo, assuming the americans to stay in afghanistan that suggested the ones in his favor . no, i called for the immediate withdraw the u. s. troops that nato troops route guns done, but they need to leave behind a structure and the framework for peace and stability rather than just color and rum. ok, i mean, you know, this evidence will be mounting in the media will be talking all about the alleged genocide as it talked about in western countries of the g 7 happening in cornwall dealing china will be looking to the g 20 in rome. and what does china think of

this g 7 summit? what's your view? personal about the g 7 festival. i wish that you have some a, a good lunch in dealing with many emerge an urgent situations that economies are faced with. if they wanted, turn g 70 to a platform again, china, the china, they will fail because no, why should the dodge in the, and just see that by putting maximum pressure on china, china will back. no, china will stand very firm on matters of principle and defend very fiercely. it's fundamental interest and china will not allow any one g 7 or anyone else to push to turn out to the wall without consequences, china and need to strike back in the chinese people would be very much united behind the chinese government being defending the fundamental interest of china, china's rights of economic development is an alien level. right? no one can expect to take away that right from the chinese people because otherwise,

taking away the right of the chinese people's development, right, will be the biggest crime against humanity. well, we invite said geoffrey, 9 weeks ago. thank you. once again. thank you very much and that's over the show will be back on wednesday, 2 years since no nation media exploded about demonstrations in hong kong. the china accused of having links to the u. s. national endowment for democracy until then keep in touch of social media and if you're watching on youtube, comment below and let us know what you think is the most likely origin on covered 90. ah

i don't know. i mean, there are some steps in there were rescuing the food that they were not scabbing or were rescuing resources that are still good. this is best buy march 21st, which is in 2 days. all these potatoes, paula pianos, onions, all of these came from waste brown sources. this is great for me because i'm always looking for a way to give things away. dr. because the tax laws, you know, definitely do benefit the wealthier people and our society. so it makes sense for them to throw it out right off, rather than give it to somebody who could use it, because then that person is not going to buy it getting it wrong. still again, the growing acceptance of the china lovely theory demonstrates utter incompetence of the ruling elise will be ever be held to account. also, the west often uses the issue of human rights is a political weapon. now,

being against the west top headlines this hour here will not see, cries foul over its recent nigeria. taking saying that a free and open internet is an essential human rights. all of that though, while the platform routinely sensors people in america, israel security service warns of potential violent unrest and parliament proposed to vote on a new governing coalition seeking to replace the prime minister netanyahu and gunning down white people. and that's what a psychiatrist at gail university told her class was her fantasy newly emerged audio of the lecture has talked outrage something she dismissed as a typical white reaction. i began my talk by saying that.