perception, so we have to wake up, scratch the surface a little bit of this, and look at what's playing out here and to see the truth and to know that this is not a story that concerned only julian found it concerns every single one of us. and our children powerful words from neil's meltzer. well, that is rough for this nice hour, but our programs, they are just beginning find out what's being shown up to the quickest difference ah summer solutions. that's where i would look at the problem and look at the solution . and today we've got the one on the marshall auerbach is the market analyst that levy institute researcher and tragic follower of the toronto police. but maybe this is they, are they want to stanley cup the,

the, the with time action returns here we're going underground, taking you out of the mainstream media shallows into the depths of the truth coming up in the show on the 54 that of us in the middle east, 6 day war, armed with us weapons. what is the legacy of us biological warfare from nate bomb and vietnam, nicole and pals white test you but the un to the closure of for dietrich. we investigate the origins of cove in 1900, with a journalist who points to a us funded chinese lab. and is allegations of genocide in china against the week of population are heard in london. tribunal may be new hand probe. we speak to the

president of the center of china and globalization, to go to get china citing the story. all the more coming up in today's going underground. but 1st is the 54th through the middle east, 6 day war. as a reminder of the political implications of all at war, but is an unseen will being waged in our name one that is biological even if you don't believe in ca. and that might fix brief journalists after their poor records on w. m. d, should we all be taking more notice of the lab, lee hype offices about the birth of corona virus. to me now from new jersey is woman york time science editor, nicholas wade. nicholas, thanks so much for coming on before we get to the actual article. do you think it's been unfair? how arguably disinterested a pc written which was republish in the bulletin of atomic scientists how it's been treated as cold war propaganda. what i haven't seen that i'm sorry, it has been, but the piece just tried to stick as closely as possible to sandy. the fact that no politics and the bees, i'm just looking at whether scientific facts lead and i will be sorry,

if anyone treated as propaganda, which is not what we always say. everything is as political on, on this program and certainly hit certain political nerves. and you address at the end of the beef, something that has been said in recent days, that part of the reason people want to say corona virus didn't come from a lab is because trump points into it or yes, i think that was very important in per rising the debate servicers trumpet said that when she said about the qualification, then everyone tells the politics instead of the science and debate was so her eyes that people forgot to look, catherine decided to fax, and this was one reason why she was in the yeah, the story has totally been missed by the mainstream press. now, i understand that,

you quoted, russian, entrepreneur yuri dagon is the section of covey. let alone nikolai petrosky. i don't know very connected to russia showing how a suited science to is optimal for human receptors. did i get you thinking as well? yes, this was a very remark essay taking published just over a year ago. and he really laid out the story for anyone who wanted to follow his lead. he showed high in for, to take apart as far as somebody didn't endorse the idea. it's been manipulation alarm, but he should clearly how it was very possible. no virus right from the start was very good at attacking human cell. so this is a carrier because ours is only jump from one animal species to another. they usually take quite a lot of time to attach a nice so many mutations to effect about a new target. and you can see this happening in the case of why we have the 2 crates to pass into, you know,

about flesh in mutations before it had perfected its ability to attack humans. if you look at the curvy to there's, there's none of that adaptation period, right? from the start, it's very distracting human cells, very hard to explain on the natural emergencies. very easy to explain on the ladder creek idea because we know that she's child chinese so fast power. she stopped me. she was testing of ours is not on humans. of course that would be unethical, but on human eyes, mice that's my genetically engineered to carry the human protein in the cells of ours. certain devices have been trained on you and i might, it's no problem to explain why they were so when jackie from the start to humans and, and we know from filings that this is the kind of research that was being carried out. you make it clear that there is a new intermediate species that the bat,

caves that have been talked him out of 1000 kilometers from woo hon. but no one seems to be an infected on the way. i mean, i want to return to the politics of the in a 2nd, but i mean, you might, i don't know whether you can, even though we all think we're all epidemiologist now what fewer and cleavage and human preferred code on czar. i don't know whether you can make a stab at explaining to our audience what they are and why they suggest that at least we must understand it's possible that corona virus was manipulated the origin . i will, if you have our largest, the 1st thing that stands out about as far as is it has a tiny bit of genetic information called the feeling cleavage side. and it's writing the little spy protein away. so happens the spike question in order to deploy, once it's lashawn on top, it has to be cut into 2 said that the other merge the biases membrane without human cells. so you're included, shy,

is what enables the virus to do that. and the reason why this so sticks out like a sore thumb case with this bar is the if you look at the prices in the family, i wish you a call back or viruses. there's no subject of ours that has, is fear in previous shines. so this is important from game new bits and genetic information by exchanging the chair with each other. this happens in 2 hours is the same. so when we combination acquired new properties by the combination for the one thing you can also clar is some property that your family does not possess. so it's very hard to explain, are natural emergence, how could we to came last year and shine? but on the levity here it is easy because our just a decade, the way to spies viruses. but as you are in fact,

human cells is to set up your grieving chart. and there it isn't. just the right position in the south beach in june. so how disturbed are you? we invite the editor, the lancet on this show that scientists were so quick to discount the lab leak theory. even before further evidence had been emerged that they had been experimenting the way they had been in hand. and these element of the story on so easy to add alphabet zonati transmission. well, i'm very concerned that the image of the launching published this letter. it turned out to be drafted by dr. pizza dasha, who lives enormous conflict of interest in this case. because he finally money from the national interest of health by his organization in new york to dr. young the she had to do our job. so if there had been any advice escaping from her lap,

he is the principal investigation. the phones were potentially at fault. well, he would deny, obviously, any wrong doing or any funneling of money. these were grant to eco help re go eco science. i mean that that's another element to this puzzle, because if anyone thinks that you are a signer phobe, the money itself came from us taxpayers for the research we're talking about. well, i don't think dr. rush were denied keys of the money. i mean, the matter records, he's the principal investigator on the ground from the national health and he had as his sub ground t doctors only she, i mean that's not, that's not a dispute for the grant process, which obviously was awarded the grant from us authorities. he was awarded the brought up a nationalist to some extent responsible what his socrates do with the money,

but this conflict of interest which should have been declared and launch it last year was not the correct and the letter n saying we did call to interest. well, the w h o apparently went to further investigation. we've learned in the, in the past few days, we obviously invite the editor, the lancet on these, nor here to defend him self. but it therefore would suggest that because the united states taxpayer was involved and the chinese communist club, you're involved. it's a perfect storm of wanting to deny the lovely theory straight away. well, i think the motivation for denying the lactic theory straight away came from to say to small groups of biologists. so dr. bachelor publishing the launch, it was the for us and the 2nd was a group publishing an initial medicine by dr. christian anderson. so these 2

letters were denied underwriting lab me and said it was impossible of being manipulated to let us capture the narrative. they will not challenge by the mainstream press do not challenge my son, sam journalists, he'll be one of the united states is most important science journalists, arguably, is this common that they is there a class dimension to the whole story that people have very easily swayed to go with the establishment level of the scientists themselves. who briefing the journalists, there's a kind of herd mentality. there is a mentality among germans that so quite correct. i think sunshine is just a different from other journalists. they tend to search the sources. so political journalist, when they say well lies, so it's j, a journalist, small take the view. here's the great wisdom of scientists, convey it to the unwashed masses, or masters, realizing that sources have,

have about their own particular interest. in many cases, i'm not, i think you mean 2 kinds of political jonas, they're in fantasy. what do you think of the chinese response that the united states a better lead w h o people into for dietrich, we know the germ warfare laboratory, 50 miles, washington d. c hasn't been investigated and where is patients 0? i mean, where, where is the curiosity that you do show in this article about where patients 0 is because china clearly have some people out there. briefing people that look, there was the military games in the united states service men and women went over to hand where his patients, 0 italy, spain, the us where where i am 40 to is just as a diversion the chinese i how do you know that? i didn't know, i think you're right, we didn't know who patients 0 was and it will be very good to find out that. but

we show you how it is not a not allowing anyone to see the kind of evidence we would need to determine that. no nora, us authorities allowing us to see what's happening there. i'm only see, i'm not allowed to go to the board and down the, the research facilities involved in the bio warfare are off limits to journalists as well. what do you advise journalists do in a situation like this with a virus that has killed 3700000 people? well, i think we should encourage scientists to, to reconsider the possibility of lab lee, which has been steadfastly, ignored for the last 15 months. and if scientists in each country, particularly, or groups like the royal society or the us national academy of sciences, what is set up groups to look into elaborate, can considered for the 1st time. and if they should conclude is by ask,

but levity is more like creation. here's the better explanation of evidence. i think that was for the 1st time. ready pressure on chinese government to release the information to the world out up until now. and for the 1st time the chinese would face pressure to either cooperate with the rest of the world in resolving this problem or to become perhaps associated with the future. so just very briefly, do you think it be more difficult for you because of your previous work on race to get the article out there and accepted to make people question more about the origins of corona virus? no, not at all. i wrote, if i'm a say so excellent on the biological basis, raises a lot of criticism for them. but she was criticized by i hope, group of sciences who could find on a single era in the book and not a single ration statement. 100 senior, when i thought i was supposed to make, if you didn't have the facts,

you try and build up as many people as you can to make it seem that by the way she was archie. you have something on the side of the story about einstein who's told that a 100 scientists that signed the leisure proving him wrong. and he said, if i were wrong, one would have been enough answer. this book of mine did not need a m p. 's. this totally different subject or be archie, i'm sorry, cody to nicholas wade. thank you. you know, after the break, we go to aging, to speak to the vice president of the center for china. globalization began to get his take on theories of a giant lab leak, killing millions. all this was coming up and by 2 of going undergrad the the, the getting it wrong. still again, the growing acceptance of the china lab leak theory demonstrates utter incompetence

of the ruling elise will be ever be held to account. also, the west often uses the issue of human rights is a political weapon now being against the west. welcome back. in the 1st half of the show, we heard from former new york times that it nicholas wade, his article on the origins of covered 19 together with m. i 6 and the ca, arguably fuel renew, delegations of a hand lab leak. now let's go to beijing to speak to the vice president of the center for china and verbalization gao to hear what china makes of it. thank you. thank so much for coming back on why. why a chinese authorities so angry about the u. s. u. k. secret intelligence agency telling journalist and co we'd come from a will and lab labs. well, 1st of all, to trace the real origin of colby 19 adamic. we need to put science 1st and that excludes all the conspiracy appearance. and then there is

a process headed by the w h o channel cooperated with w h o from the very beginning. when the panoramic was discovered in han and also through the field that is an investigation by the rachel scientist, men from actually our american scientists. so let's follow the process rather than allow conspiracy theories to gain the up ahead. crother allow me to make a proposal. i think when you build up a global corporate 19 chronology, because now we know for sure that before the outbreak han with the benefit of hindsight they will discover is all the pharisee many other parts of the world. the japan, for example, from italy, and more importantly in the united states. so i think we cannot just focus on china . for example, patient 0 for the spanish crew cannot be found in spain this back in the united

states because the american soldier brought the problem to spake. that's more than 100 years ago. we need to use a similar mythology to methodology to really find the real origin of the yeah. and so the w h o ted ro side. norma says, all i bought, this is remain on the table and it requires further investigation whether it came from. and of course, you mentioned the american scientist to back the chinese government's view about the origin of corona virus. well, it turns out that lab was funded by the us taxpayer, the one now a shadow is cost over it by nicholas wade. loon m 6, c a and and okay, some journalists may just take their information from the intelligence agencies that you have legal reasons, but it is a w h o that says we need to investigate china. i hope you will read the conclusion of the w h l scientific team very carefully. that's not what's the conclusion all

about? i think the w h l team has already reached their conclusion. the assigned a very little evidence to the so called the lapse theory, and they clean the much more closely to the natural origin from the animal world to mankind, for example. so i think we need to really take the w h o. conclusion, as it is rather then allow the intelligence agencies to do the job besides this, because otherwise you just get a bunch of conspiracy theorists. ok, well there's only a just says that needs to be more investigation. and for dietrich, despite what your foreign ministry spokesperson said about how that should be investigating the germ warfare laboratory in the washington dc, that's not going to happen. us authorities are not going to obviously do that if i mean, can i just ask if the will hand lab is responsible for the leak?

would china come clean about it? what would china be to flight and meetings the truth. first of all, this is absolutely absurd. because you are now saying something which is not proven which is which has no solid evidence, which is based on very flimsy accusations, offers there's, the fear is therefore we can use that as the starting point. but it is the case. and we have the details, obviously because it's american funded research in china, right. that will and laboratory. so we know that what they were doing and we was experimentally using reverse genetic pseudo virus receptor binding as a virus. i mean, you know, i'm not an epidemiologist, but it looks to me like exactly the kind of transfer. we know, the national institutes of health said that there was no evidence of the hospital surveillance. the epidemic, no intermediate species have been presented by chinese authorities. we know that there are no bath population has been produced as a sole source of the size to and china close down its databases. why would china

close down its databases when these allegations emerge in the 1st place? well, 1st of all, i'm going to say several things. china and the united states, the 2 largest countries in the world. the 2 most powerful countries in the world's, traditionally for the past several decades. they have very extensive corporations in many, many as areas. and i would say the extent of their corporation is far beyond many people's imagination. that's number one. now, in this particular case, china, us corporation, is also very extensive, a very in depth. and for the study alleged in that paper is not confined to hon itself. it's done by many laboratories in the united states and i hope and i to the u. s. government to use the same level of transparency that china has already opened up with cooperation with w h. l. e in cooperating with the public show and being plugging in all the data.

so there is already available in the united states into the global chronology so that we will know for sure the real reasons for the dietrich kotia. the real reason for the cigarette problem. the similar case is which can now be traced back to koby 19 problem. so the major point is that we need to science above politics. all conspiracy is really feel that the where is the real origin of the ok? well, i mean the b, b, c is reporting a 41 year old and young who has age 10 in 3 bird flew 1st time ever human has got it. there's in the past few days, china is not revealing any details. and actually, what you just said, they're about to close cooperation with the united states, which was at this, we had laboratory. why does china cooperate in this way with the united states?

is it a remnant of colonialism? i mean, the, you know, it wasn't that long ago, they bombed your embassy in the year. you saw them. i mean, obviously things change a little bit in anchorage. the chinese foreign minister did start talking about black lives matter. when confronted by the blinking accusations, really, cooperation go on with the united states as the united states, the by the administration accuses gender of perhaps creating a virus that killed 3700000 people sofa. i think the united states in reason such allegations is not building that case on the side step. in the case i'm considering a on the so called intelligence report, which general motors thursday here is victory and bounds on that was it was the u. s. funded laboratory and you can just say it's a conspiracy that hits the chinese communist, but because it was the united states but taxpayer was funding the research on the bat, viruses for your information. the number 3 was joint venture between china

and france. it is very much 3 dimensional standard because the french scientists were there helping the chinese colleagues to stop with this number 3 to start with . and one of the projects i understand you involved, the china, us corporations and such corporation for john, not the united states commerce, multiple areas in many, many different b as in high and in many other parts of china. and i think the world need to be prepared for china the united states to get along with each other other than you on each of those roles. what you're saying now create the idea of a conspiracy. and some of a view is that there's a sino american conspiracy given this level of cooperation of a corona, virus research in, in china and in the united states. is that what is a know, y'all allegation is based on the wrong conclusion to start with. that is,

the virus came from a leak from the laboratory. that's not proven. there is no hot evidence to back that up. and i think that that's not generally embraced by the scientific community in the world. so let's be real, really all this. let's put science for us. let's really exclude the distorting facts of the conspiracy theories. and let's call a spade a spade. in britain, in london, there's something called the we tribe, you know, as britain sends its war ship the agent miss elizabeth towards you. we have this, i've interviewed, said jeffrey, nice, he's of very eminent to jurist. what do you make of a tribunal here funded by some equal the world we go? congress jeffrey nice of course, was at the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia and quoted an anti report about syria allow me to make several points. first of all,

she enjoys part of china and no one can change that fact. secondly, the weigle brothers and sisters are part of the chinese nationality. they are chinese citizens. the need to abide by chinese or loss and their faith is law. should be protected to the maximum extent and people's right to go to their mosques, for example, to worship in their own way are fully protected by the chinese law and father. i think in she and john rod radicalization spill over from the 20 year old warning. i understand that being cases of terrorism extremism, separatism, you name it, and we need to get united as a nation to put these evil forces out of the equation in gene john and the other part of the world. let's focus on the mega trap that is the mega threat in cheating job. i think we are now faced with the age of

a resurgence of radicalization and areas of being at this time because the united states and nato are leaving out get this done without setting up a job for peace and stability in back 100. that's a shame and that will definitely be very, very damaging to countries the regions in that part of the world, including china. shing jo, assuming the americans to stay in afghanistan, that suggested you want to stay there. no, i called for the needed withdraw. the us troops that nato troops can stand by, they need to leave behind a structure and the framework for peace and stability rather than just color and rum. ok, i mean, you know, this evidence will be mounting and the media will be talking all about the alleged genocide as it talked about in western countries. the g 7 happening in court will do. you think china will be looking to the g 20 in room and what does china think of this g 7 summit was your view. personally about the g 7 festival. i wish that

you have a some, a, a good luck in dealing with many emerge an urgent situations that day economies are phase to it. if they want to turn g 70 to a platform again, china does china. they will fail because know why, surely dodging the undersea that by putting maximum pressure on china, china will know china was very firm on matters of principle and defend very fiercely it's fundamental interest. and china will not allow any one g 7, or anyone else to push to turn out to the wall without consequences. china need to strike back in the chinese people will be very much united behind the chinese government being defending the fundamental interest of china. charlotte writes of economic development is an alien goal, right? no one can expect to take away that ride from a chinese people because otherwise taking away the right of the chinese people's development, right will be the biggest crime against humanity. well,

we invite said jeffrey, nicer weeks ago. thank you. once again. thank you very much. and that's it for the show will be back on wednesday 2 years since nation media exploded about demonstrations in hong kong. the china accused of having links to the u. s. national endowment for democracy until then, keep in touch with social media and if you're watching on youtube, comment below and let us know what you think is the most likely origin of covered 19 ah, join me every 1st on the alex simon show. and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politics sport, business. i'm show business. i'll see you then in the

ah, the american investigators rec, cover millions of dollars in crypto currency paid to the hackers of the colonial pipeline last month, which some in the us have blamed on russia. also add in the program, twitter or cries, fall over the recent locking in nigeria, seeing a free and open entering that is on the essential human. right. all. that's why the platform routinely centers. it's american news or israel security service warns of potential violent on rest of parliament prefers the vote and a new governing coalition seeking to replace prime minister netanyahu gunning dawn white people. that's what i saw like hire tris. speaking at yale university, told the class.