canes in the unlikely and idyllic setting of carpet spain court. both the g 7 leaders will ratify an agreement for minimum corporate tax rates. fin packed on transnational companies. if it's a welcome big through against a tet, giant tax avoidance positioning or the car up. since you are the rich get richer, or perhaps it's a bit of an advantage to the summit. we talk to 2 political economists who know the answers for the member of parliament fees, louis and george kevin, and the u. k. tax season specialist professor richard murphy. the key interview coming up student, but 1st, trutina emails and messages and response i show last week featuring to shannon n p, and lord das, with wiggly john fisher says, good discussion, and i know minds to welcome any plan inning for a celtic blog among nations, leaving this yuki, it's not the same and it's not supposed to be more. bowman says, i've called that the best tonight to kill them for a very long time. fisma best says, give island back to the either. let the d p r do their case and the united islands,

while harvey says, we need an english independence party. and finally, billy hall and says, the all skies asian of my nation ends with independence. pick, talk the empires on the cook. now, no, since the heat of hit tv see these ross polls arg was busy. what's in excitement across this rocket coastline high taxation, and cornwell gone so well together. because despite the claim that the jewel of cornwall saint ives was chosen as this, we can do 7 location because exemplified clean and green issues. it is a marquee will of the filthy lucre which has dominated this summit run up. a minimum corporate tax of 15 percent, whether not towards the long campaign for online transaction tax has been proposed and agreed by the finance minister. however, is this a giant step forward, disclaimed by chancellor rich. you see like what an elementary step over for the corporate giant i suggested biog stop. in short will the accommodation between big

tick and bed governments make the weak stronger, or just the strong richer. to discuss with alex george kevin, i'm professor richard murphy. professor richard murphy, lately tragedy says the chancellor richardson, i was riley, the finance ministers to take money off the, the big corporate and presumably give it to the the world spurred what's not to like about that. well, let's be clear. we've had an extraordinary and historic agreement announced, it's only announced this is not signed up, this is not finalized. there's no way to get and that all good dimensions to this. i like the fact that there's a minimum tax rate agreed. what i'm already hearing that people are agreeing, the 15 percent should now be the well minimum tax rate. no, it is the floor village below which you don't get. this is aimed at the law, the world's largest corporations. they have been seeing their tax rate cuts the

years and have been exploiting the world's tax havens to make sure they pay even less than they were being asked to do. so the good stuff in here, but there's bad stuff in here to festival that 50 percent minimum tax rate is far too low. the average detached rate is 25 percent. so why did they agree something so far below the average cd tax rate below the u. k tax rate. and this deal with regard to the reallocation of profits to developing countries is tiny. i've looked at the accounts of bartlett's, just as an example. they make a 40 percent tax rate. that's a profit margin only know point 8 percent of their profits will be reallocated towards the countries where their customers are and the amount of tax that might be involved is less than $30000000.00. let's not get too excited about the fact that this is going to solve the world's problems. that part of it once the minimum tax rate could, but only if it was more than 50 percent. so a deal

a break through deal. but one which has yet to meet expectations, the g 20 should improve this enormously on the way my suggestion. well, just kind of qualified welcome from richard murphy. does that for us commission? are you even more skeptical? i'm afraid it's actually meant to be a bit more skeptical. i think we're having the woo, poor eyes by biting his crony job. the only see the big, the big western industrial nation the same time. because we tried to broker texting for years and has managed to get green. so i think what we're seeing with the 7 smaller group of nation is by trying to round up support. so we can go next month to venice. we're all meeting she 20 and trying to get one over on the chinese and the brazilians and the indians. and we will see whether that will work. and actually if you look at the school prince of g 7 agreement, lots of loopholes,

lots of things still to be decided above all, who gets taxed. how does that play about which companies, and supposedly big companies, but war comes as big. what they're talking about is companies earn a profit rate of over 10 percent. does that include amazon know, amazon comes in about $67.00 to say because of the way the difficult fit of pick up the books. so i think along with gorgeous, it's a game. it's a dance between the big export nation still get crew fate. your tech station specialist perspective, live appointment just kind of makes about amazon and the level of profit. is that why ox 5 must say this is going to be an easy step over for the many of the big multi nationals it is for amazon. and we have to put in a box by itself, which regards to this, all the other tech companies, the facebook's, the google's,

the microsoft and so on are all going to be caught by this. they all making more than 10 percent profit rates. amazon is fundamentally a retailer with regard to a great deal of its active duty and has one other division which supplies web services to other companies which is highly profitable, overall, making 6 or 7 percent. it would be very difficult to find the deal that the not bring in most of the world's companies into this arrangement without if you wanted to keep amazon in. i mean, literally you'd have to extend it to virtually everyone quite clearly that was not going to win support in the g 7. i doubt it was going to win support in the g 20. so there's a compromise be made. amazon will fall out of this deal. it does not make much money compared to the other company to proportions turnover. so each is going to get away with this. but it is not a pure tech company, not the rest. what is surprising about this deal is how many companies have being

drawn into it. so for example, richie seen that because now realize that he signed to deal with brings very large parts of the city of london inside this arrangement, which i don't think he understood law affected and he's now trying to backtrack or, i mean, how false can this government turn, do you turn on the deal? it's already agreed this rate, it's a few days for the already saying can we have a call outside the u. k. out of this deal having any agreed it last weekend. so the, all i'm, i would have been totally agree with george. some really big issues here. i just don't think amazon is the stumbling block that should stop us doing the best we can can i also agree with georgia something. there's a lot of negotiation to go here. now i know that negotiation process i have spent far too many hours in the basement with the o. e, cd in paris, where the negotiating tables literally are they are on the ground and shatteau in the outskirts of paris. and i was heavily involved in the last 20132015 literally

in the room. and there will be those rooms again, who knows, i might end up back. but the point is that actually the devil is in the details. and in this case the devil is going to be around the accounting. what is the profit margin? what is turn over large companies, high tax figures in 3 statements in their accounts, not just one the most people seem to think it's in the income statement, but it isn't. all of these technical things need to be taken into account. very few people have actually discuss matters yet. i put up a whole series of questions which a lot of journalists that looked half of my blog saying, look, there really is a nightmare in terms of negotiation to go here. and there will be a lot of game playing to count these companies a great play. there's one group you can guarantee you who are going to be opposing this. and that's the big for firms of accountants because this deal is bad news. so the tax havens who charged 0 percent tax, which had been used very heavily by the tech companies, which are serviced by those big 4 firms of accountants. they are going to find

their business is threatened by this, which is what the intention is after that really is the a me and said they're going to fight hard when they fought hard in 2013 to 15 against something cool country by country reporting, which i created, which is now the norm, which is the basis of a lot of this deal, and they're going to fight hard this time too. so we are nowhere near a final deal yet, but i think we could get a deliverable t like more optimistic than george. not that 50 percent tax rate is way too well. just kind of left wrench a month. it says a lot of bells ringing and the big for the characteristic companies that some of the big corporate have made quite favorable responses to this picture to deal with that leg was the 1st of all a statement. does that said unit alarm bells? reg? well, nicholas was, was, was hired to be to be a front man for, to way at the rough edge. and so let's not take too much attention to him. the big high take comfort, the big american ones, like google,

they are microsoft. they are, they make a fortune. they take that money themselves. so much, tasha go up over last that he, that he simply cannot give it back to their shareholders. but hey, by the chance, can we talk too much even bother investing? cuz they're on the outlets. and so they're going to buy a little a little you know, public relations with i'm intrigued by the fact that as richard was saying about what happens to the big banks, the investment banks, the hedge funds, who operate international. how are they going to be taxed? most of the discourse has been about about the export company, but you know, you're around the new microsoft i, i could see the deal ending out. now the know the big financial companies escape

the tax issue. i think that will be the major full grain in the debates will the next year when the americans always be good about keeping the financial sector of any international agreements. so we could see, we could see, see that that coming, that would be by both by but you can just look at the small print, the richer was saying, where does this new tax fall result, 50 percent. everything is good. companies to be taxed. are those early a profit rate of 10 percent and above and they get to keep 10 percent. it's a, it's a tax comes on hasn't got both the 10 percent and even only on the 5th wrapped. so you want to know how much extra text is going to be was always cd estimates as seen, which is $50.00 to $80000000000.00 global war. we're comp that $5080000000000.00 googly is frankly, in terms of the company peanuts. so don't expect lot of money is going to end up in

the national real search. right. rented that but i'm a world progress or should we read the fine print? read the fine print that we could make progress if we negotiate. well, join us after the break when alex continuous, this conversation was george kevin and richard murphy. we'll see that the the were here in saint petersburg at the international economic form. and the topic of our program is the global economy. how is it changed since coven, for the winter, for the loses? what are the challenges? and what are the opportunities?

as a korea professionals board is much tougher on some than others. she was hero, my by everybody. so why would somebody believe me? i was just a little girl. the price paid to, to, to achieve really was was how to read in the paper this morning. usa swimming coach, arrested, allegedly had sex with a 12 year old girls. this happens almost every week. we get calls at the office. i get informed about one of my greatest fears is someone's going to start linking all this together. there's going to be a 60 minute documentary about youth coaches in sports like gymnastics swimming. is that documentary? see it on our tea. welcome back. alex is in conversation with george, kevin,

i'm professor richard murphy. i professor richard murphy. what do you make of this? these are boxed by us. treasury said john yellen, who seems to be advocating a caden's in expansionist course for the world economy. and telling the g 7 to lead the way, i believe that is what she thinks, i think janet yellen is leading us in a keynesian expansion. it's very clear that biden is breaking all the rules. he does not think that that needs to be repaid in the usa, and he and she are communicating the world open your office spend when you can, you have what is called preschool headroom. that means there is literally the capacity in very many countries. germany in particular, the u. k. still has plenty of physical capacity to spend more, get people to work, prevent time employment, get the economy investing in the things we need, like to bring you deal. yeah, i think they really want to do that. that's their plan. does kevin should be music

to your radical else? i've been sleepy. joe biden was not so sleepy after all. yeah, absolutely, absolutely true. i mean, we are, we are on the cusp of, of, of a major economy change since 2070 the, the banking crisis won't enter the deflationary period. you may think all the places disappear but essentially means that it is difficult for me to make coffee because the best coffee when you get, when you get in place and they keep bumping the price. ah, plus their whole, you political challenges and clearly america stacey down china. so the american state wants to spend more money, as we've heard a little with some, some head there. i'm a little bit cautious in the sense that coby has disrupted lots of supply change change it might take, you know, was a year, maybe 5 years, maybe the decade to get things sorted out. so that there are pockets of shortages

which according inflation here. and there, but by a lot, i think by many back to decide if you have to spend china and america back on top. and that's what's happening is politics you just taken on ranch about is that the half of this behind the economics is this, the american administration say, look, the wretched man's club, the g 7, the western economies is tightened to lead the way. and since there's nobody attractive leading the world into private recession, better lead the world into a sustained recovery. is that what's behind us? while i pick up, one of the words you use which was sustained and the, i think it might be a sustainable recovery. i mean, it's very bizarre to have biden, the man that we didn't expect to be a radical being so radical and maybe us because he expects to only be a single term precedent. so he's just going to throw everything against the wall in

this 1st term. and he's going to make the changes he wants straight away. i believe that is about china is a fax for this, but it's not the only one. i mean, they are really trying to beat the republicans, and the republicans have got a very hard core supports we can see which is still around from. and so they've got to convince middle and working class america, that that is a future for them because they have lost out very badly in recent decades. that is a crisis, a middle class incomes. now this policy invest, spend, do sustainability, rebuild the infrastructure of america is a domestic policy, as well as in international policy. but i think he's also hearing his radical democrats standing on the sidelines said to him, green, you deal green. you deal to jo. deliver us what we want, and i add all those together. you come out with this well mix which is a pure keynesian inflationary policy in the sense of inflating the economy all,

i don't think it will deliver long term inflation by the way. i agree with george that i think that that is a short term long term. what wages are not going to rise that radically. so he's put together a very clever package it. so just kind of them, how much intellectual thinking in terms of the economics is behind this. i mean, there's a response to the world crisis. the one of the panoramic curriculum future radical action on the 2nd, a combination of new monitors, a new kinsey and actually of intellectual base for thing, a lot of people have been 55 to what a the fiscal deficit for 5 too long. i think i think it's pretty much it crawls and sir 6, but i think there's adorning realization in the night states and here in the u. k. that government can print money, least in the short term lease. there was

a crisis demand. i get away with it. so what we see, what we can see here is that kind of restrictive fiscal policies, the dominated consensus and conspiracy fella 1020 years. i'm just going to wind up printing press me trying to get dollars times. and the roof hasn't pulled in, and i think the culture of injury as well. ok let's, let's make a while we can, we can spend somebody in by ourselves some support. and so some of our problems know where all these aids up, i think, could be with a headache. i don't think you can call me simply by printing money, but i think for the, for the mix, the laker cycle, we're clearly going to see this dominate. and i think as usual, the, the economists will try and pick up pieces by taking my faith, both yourself and johns, kevin usa, observed commentator jobs as a practitioner,

of course, as a member of parliament have been involved in the scottish constitutional debate that that's what we are talking about how the dramatic effect on one debate, which is whether scotland should have a central bank and have won as quickly as possible. once is independent. we took him money picking economic opportunities. does that have a direct impact on that debate? yes, it does. it does because its scotland is independent. each 2 will want to part of this investment program, its who will want to deliver agree and new deal. and to do that, it has to have the ability to print money. now i rather were create them print because all of this stuff is electronic, of course, and it's done through quantitative easing. scotland also needs control over its tax system, which isn't possible without control over the central bank of money. i think the 3 fundamental and intimately linked who control the impact so that money creation, particularly the impact on the quality,

which is the one that worries me most about this because a lot of the money that is creative ends up in the hands of the richest in society now scotland f one needs to have an integrated macro economic policy to handle this . and to do that, the gross, the people in scotland will expect after independence. that's why they want independence. the single hang together and a scottish to scenario which demands that they really will have to be very short transition from sterling to scholars pound or whatever to go. so it's kind of a know you got us overwhelming us to, to scream some. your former detractors look at what's happening and what all that good nomics and apply it to the scottish situation. absolute and deep. if, if we had be independent from the referendum in 2014, and we kept pound sterling at this moment, the scottish government would pick up the creek. it wouldn't be able to create money. richard says that would be able to cover the candid pandemic crisis. and the

funding of that it had had to go cap in hand to the city of london to try and borrow users into the interest rates. i mean, the hoping would have been the buckle. you can have independence and i have somebody else when your currency and your policy and your money. suppose you know, independence means monetary independence. that should be able to see that we haven't got back clear by know that when, when we have a will, it wasn't that came from self assent. what in the james and i changed my mind with the facts, he did indeed we did it even though he was a rare preg pregnancy to keeping his his class and is this going? i have to run, we have to learn the lesson and keep keeps called going operate in scotland, interest ross, the bank has interest. lastly to radical economists. so as i passenger, let's look at a distribution across the platinum g southern, maybe leading the way in an expansive direction may be starting to tax those. so the, the tax, how much of the world's poor going to see if the, for you to fab,

elia, richard murphy, to the percentage that might go to, to helping live those on the upper us tell me, it's an underlying concern and you have in terms of this that's what looks like promising economic initiatives. this is a fundamental concern, and it's actually a change of emphasis within the g. a g 7. i was that the 2013 summit chap. my dad did camera remember him where he had it and we actually have been bounced back in law. and in all of them, which focused upon the fact that the rewards of tactical should go to developing countries. the reality is that this is not going to do that, not by a long way. and i mentioned already, i spent time at the scene during that period. and i remember talking to the chinese and indian indian to say we won't share. and there's a very aggressive type of, it's also going to be leading the job and they're very good. now,

i'm going to be in the debate, but they're not going to be left outside. so i really do not expect the deal that we're seeing at present as being the one that will end up with this horrible biased towards the head office of countries like the light, the usa like to be. and we to see a better outcome. i don't believe they'll buy it less that changes just kevin, how are we going to avoid those who've been in the head? and as we say in scotland of what old economics for so long having the, the same treatment as we move into a new environmentally sustainable. what all the costs of that change and see very few of the benefits. how can we avoid such a mile distribution of one of the sources continuing about 140 countries because of the negotiation soon. we seen on a global tech, steel and ultimate,

they all have to be brought within the tent. so i think i think they should use this moment to say to the g 7. ok, that's your opening off offer, but we want more certainly the 15 cent tax rate needs to rise and so forth. so i think we need, we need a bit of bit of, of international negotiation. and i think the, the, the, the poor relations, particularly on some of the develop missions like brazil has to be prepared to say no deal unless we get what we want. so the u. k. u k has already remember past the tax, new tax on digital competence and hilbert inability. it's after donald trump groves of butch, i think you k right away to implement its digital text cream off the money. and we could use that, for instance, to, to get our, our percentage payment for international aid up to back to it should be done. kevin, professor, richard murphy. thank you so much for joining me again. i'm, they are,

simon, she'll thanks, alex. thank you, chancellor. as soon as it came to stress, it was he who parsley rallied the g 7 finance ministers to pursue the 15 percent corporate tax to go. indeed, you can change the passion we've talked about. it's a big time for the take jones to pay their fair share. however, to other statements, you can pause for thought before the chancellor. it's inaugurated, as corn was answer to robin, who 1st, as international charities appointed the 15. ringback percent minimum represents a very low bar and some 10 percent less than the level originally miss had by medical president biden for 3 seconds. and even more interestingly, the 10 giants themselves have well convinced it. now, sometimes when turkeys apparently bought for christmas, it is as well to check whether they are really turkeys and whether it's really

christmas more significantly. this seems like a shift to the consumer power of the big battalion. it is clear that the big economy is looking forth from big corporate to big government. what is less clear is whether any of this the distribution will find its way to the countries which are genuinely on the upper in did mr. martinez control oversee over the u. k. governments cut in it's in budget rather fairly did attempts to present themselves as any friend or ally of the world's poor. for now, from alex myself and all of this you stay safe and we hope to see you all again next week. ah, me soon.

the better the survival guide data. here's my goal is going to store a federal reserve. so there you go back. oh heck, no, refrigeration came, well look at the rest, the 7 years. so it was for the one of the persian gulf, the wealthiest country as has spend billions of dollars on state of the art stadiums. well, look at this, the stadium is really taking shape. you can see the bowl and most of the stands now,

when we were here a little bit over a year ago, at the same construction site, it was just the foundation in the metal structures. so it seems that time why this idea to use shipping containers as building blocks has definitely paid off. i mean, they're easy to assemble and easy to dismantle, just like playing with lego the, for the 1st time in a world history, the stadium will be billed from shipping containers and what's more, it will be completely dismantled after the turn in the me, i was a super said he's like, case studies does make it to date transformations over the past decade, advanced mega project most go in for him to and to and he won the largest

international congress on make. it said he development the top headlines, heroin r t, as an optional, big investigation reveal that a host of america's riches the billionaires are avoiding taxes. the u. s. revenue service team is much more concerned with finding out who actually leeks the information back and tracks on a previous pull approval of ukraine's controversial 2020 kit saying the slogan of glory. heroes must now be removed from the place, shut off university students remove an image of queen elizabeth the 2nd from the colleges, common room fighting. it's linked to the colonial. it's a move that when condemned by the countries education minister as absurd. we put the issue up for debate. the queen is the head of our country. so i think it's a great, really, really great shame. it's come to this.